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How broken is the Ararzu?

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Raelyk	Posted - 2007.12.26 10:36:00 - [1] I've been thinking about finishing up the training for an Arazu, but with the recent patch I've only heard complaining about how broken they are when compared to the other recons. So, long story short -- is it still worth while to fly one of these ships? Thanks.
Juha85 Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:00:00 - [2] Don't fly one but I would think they are still great assets to gangs. For example in a gang which has ECM in it you can load locking time scripts and combined with the ecm boats give everyone on bay... --------------------------------------- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Lexiana Del'Amore Gallente Nouvelle Rouvenor	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:02:00 - [3] Not worth it now, maybe it will be in 6/12 months time when CCP realize the dedicated Sensor damp ships need a buff.
Wideen Eon Project Legion of Honor	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:08:00 - [4] Edited by: Wideen on 26/12/2007 11:08:38 I don't fly them either but as I've encountered many of them in pvp I have to say that they seemed way too efficient at what they do. OK I do realize that they are supposed to be specialized and all, but I fail to see, with the current changes to it, how it sucks so much when it can render its target's targeting range to extreme short range (with optimal range script ofc). Sure, the target will still be able to lock at its normal rate but what good is that if you can't target far enough to even get a lock. Edit: spelling Originally by: F'nog Your math intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
Condecinte	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:18:00 - [5] Devs said (in the live blog i think) that the nerf to dampeners was a nerf to that module specifically and was not intended to mess up the Gallente recons the way it did. This will be addressed in a later patch. I suspect they will adjust the bonuses to allow them to function the way they did pre patch, the important thing is they will be the ONLY ships that can use damps to do both lock range AND scan res dampening with good results.
Niama Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:30:00 - [6] Gallente recons are a piece of crap right now compared to other recons. Its not worth training buying or bothering about them. As for the "boost" patch that mr Zulu was speaking about, its gonna take a whiiile to come and then we dont know what changes will be there.
Avataris The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.26 12:05:00 - [7] The Arazu is not worth buying, training for, or flying right now. I used to have one, and quite onjoyed it. The only recons worth flying right now are the caldari ECM recons, and the rapier and huginn. Hopefully at some point in the future the damage will be undone.
Corpse Mage	Posted - 2007.12.26 12:55:00 - [8] What's up with all these comments stating "I don't fly one but I think they are still great ships" The ship is quite broken now and really needs a boost to be useful with it's main ewar bonus. I was a pilot but after a few tests and losses on the test server I decided to sell my arazu and lachesis and move on.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.26 12:56:00 - [9] Damps are a hell of a lot less effective than they used to be. Other than that it's a good ship. It warps cloaked (being a force recon) and can warp scramble at long range. That's not so bad.
Avataris The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.26 13:21:00 - [10] there are 5 other ships in game now that get a bonus to warp disrupter range, each one of them is cheaper than the arazu, and more survivable.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:46:00 - [11] My advice with no experience of my own in an arazu: keep training for the ship... if it gets cheaper get one - if it becomes a steal buy two. damps have become weaker, but thats no reason not to train for it... Im pretty sure the Arazu will get a bit stronger bonus towards them soon. Besides from that you still have a bonus towards warp disruptors and scramblers - I'm a nice guy!! But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored...
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:25:00 - [12] I do fly the shi*.. ship, I meant ship.. and I can honestly tell you that it sucks now. Pretty damn useless in gangs, and not all that great solo anymore. So the short answer is "no". But... Gallente Cruiser V does open up other decent ships like the Deimos, Ishtar, Phobos, and Astarte. So it's worth the investment. And then train up to recons for Caldari or Minmatar which are quite useful atm. Once the Arazu/Lach get fixed then you'll be able to hop right in one. On a side note, Zulupark made an amusing comment about the sensor damp nerf. Apparently he never even bothered to look at Gallente Recons in particular when making the change... It's those sorts of things that give me a warm fuzzy feeling when thinking about CCP Devs. Good job guys! Taxman IV: Rogue Agent
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:35:00 - [13] Train for something else. Deimos is a good choice if you already have Gallente Cruiser 5. My Arazu will stay parked after my last foray with it. -Liang -- Gain Forum Fame Now! Want To Trade Liang Nuren For Your Character! Post in the thread or send me an Evemail. ^_
Alyth Gallente Dichotomy Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Raelyk I've been thinking about finishing up the training for an Arazu, but with the recent patch I've only heard complaining about how broken they are when compared to the other recons. So, long story short -- is it still worth while to fly one of these ships? Thanks. They aren't broken, they are just fine. I have been using my Lachesis to good effect recently. People only think they suck because they can't be bothered training up that lovely signal supression skill that gets damps back where they used to be before the change. Only problem with Gallente recons in my opinion is their cap usage, they can only run their full whack of ewar for about a minute and a half, after that you are a bit screwed without boosters. -------------------------------------------
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:14:00 - [15] A->B Lach/Arazu Beat Nanos. B->C Everyone Flys Nanos. A->C Therefore, Lach/Arazu beats everyone. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:15:00 - [16] Originally by: Alyth They aren't broken, they are just fine. I have been using my Lachesis to good effect recently. People only think they suck because they can't be bothered training up that lovely signal supression skill that gets damps back where they used to be before the change. Only problem with Gallente recons in my opinion is their cap usage, they can only run their full whack of ewar for about a minute and a half, after that you are a bit screwed without boosters. Yeah, most competent Gallente recon pilots have Sig Suppression 4 or 5. The basic problem comes from that we used to be able to actually do something to a non-sniping battleship. As it stands now, it is impossible to get any battleship damped to web range, which means that you're entirely ineffective at close range combat. More importantly, it means that you cannot help your gang once they're within 15-20km of their target. A single sensor booster on a battleship gives them unaffected locking range all the way out to warp disruptor range (even if you're in a rigged max skilled Gallente recon). Also, I have no problems running my damps and warp disruptor for as long as I need to. -Liang -- Gain Forum Fame Now! Want To Trade Liang Nuren For Your Character! Post in the thread or send me an Evemail. ^_
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon A->B Lach/Arazu Beat Nanos. B->C Everyone Flys Nanos. A->C Therefore, Lach/Arazu beats everyone. Arazu/Lach don't beat nanos... nanos just come within locking range and bbq the recon with unaffected locking times. -Liang -- Gain Forum Fame Now! Want To Trade Liang Nuren For Your Character! Post in the thread or send me an Evemail. ^_
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:39:00 - [18] I have Recon 5 as well as Signal Suppression to 5. The Arazu is junk now. All it takes is one ship that has more max speed than you do (anything in a nano gang) and you're dead. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:13:00 - [19] Nanoships use speed to tank, if you trash their lock range then you can web them. Once they're webbed they die, even to a recon. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Nanoships use speed to tank, if you trash their lock range then you can web them. Once they're webbed they die, even to a recon. I disagree. -Liang -- Gain Forum Fame Now! Want To Trade Liang Nuren For Your Character! Post in the thread or send me an Evemail. ^_
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:25:00 - [21] To many nerfs. Its junk. Only reason to fly it is the warpdis bonus. And guess what...the 5 mil inties have that aswell. Damps just dont work anymore. Only combined with ECM gangs and if you fly in a ECM gang its better to just bring more ECM. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Tryptic Photon Gallente Black Watch Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:47:00 - [22] In the Arazu I used to be able to damp 2 targets in most fights now it's barely even 1. Flying next to me is a corpmate in a Falcon or Rook taking out 3-4 ships. I like flying Lachesis a little better now but it's still pretty dicey out there in either recon.
Kel Solaar Soulbound. Tenth Legion	Posted - 2007.12.26 23:00:00 - [23] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Nanoships use speed to tank, if you trash their lock range then you can web them. Once they're webbed they die, even to a recon. Mmmh, honestly a nanoship with reduced locking range will just not approach, nanoships rule of thumb is just to not get in web range... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alyth Gallente Dichotomy Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.12.26 23:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Alyth They aren't broken, they are just fine. I have been using my Lachesis to good effect recently. People only think they suck because they can't be bothered training up that lovely signal supression skill that gets damps back where they used to be before the change. Only problem with Gallente recons in my opinion is their cap usage, they can only run their full whack of ewar for about a minute and a half, after that you are a bit screwed without boosters. Yeah, most competent Gallente recon pilots have Sig Suppression 4 or 5. The basic problem comes from that we used to be able to actually do something to a non-sniping battleship. As it stands now, it is impossible to get any battleship damped to web range, which means that you're entirely ineffective at close range combat. More importantly, it means that you cannot help your gang once they're within 15-20km of their target. A single sensor booster on a battleship gives them unaffected locking range all the way out to warp disruptor range (even if you're in a rigged max skilled Gallente recon). Also, I have no problems running my damps and warp disruptor for as long as I need to. -Liang 4 damps and 2 scrams kills my cap for some reason Anyhoo. The gallente recons, as I see it, work very well in tandem with Minmatar ones. Basically one Lachesis/Arazu plus one Huginn/Rapier = dead anything that doesn't get outside of 40km before they lock it. Throw in a Curse (not the Pilgrim unless it has faction gear) and anything with turrets is effectively dead. That way you don't NEED to damp it to web range, just enough that it'll have a hard time locking your support (unless they are very close range ships themselves and in which case damping to web range will have naff all effect on their survivability anyway). As it stands no recon, besides the Curse, is a solopwnmobile and even then a Curse will still die to a competent opponent so why should gallente ones be any different? -------------------------------------------
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.27 01:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Raelyk I've been thinking about finishing up the training for an Arazu, but with the recent patch I've only heard complaining about how broken they are when compared to the other recons. So, long story short -- is it still worth while to fly one of these ships? Thanks. They aren't broken, they are just fine. I have been using my Lachesis to good effect recently. People only think they suck because they can't be bothered training up that lovely signal supression skill that gets damps back where they used to be before the change. You do realize that even with maxed out skills, ship bonuses and range dampening scripts you still only reduce the target's targeting range by slightly more than what you used to be able to do without any ship bonuses or signal suppression skill (just the base stats)? And then you have to take into account that that's only on one attribute instead of both. So, with that in mind, basically a maxed skilled Arazu/Lachesis pilot does effectively less now with damps than what a pilot that barely has the skills to use them could do on a ship without bonuses before the change.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.12.27 01:59:00 - [26] Edited by: voogru on 27/12/2007 01:59:50 I don't know what you guys are talking about. The gallente recons are great. They are the best in the game. You can recycle them and turn them into Caldari recons! HOW COOL IS THAT??!?!!??! On a more serious note, ECM is king again and I will be expecting the whiners to come shortly. Hate Farmers? Click Here
William DeMeo Gallente the united	Posted - 2007.12.27 02:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Kel Solaar Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Nanoships use speed to tank, if you trash their lock range then you can web them. Once they're webbed they die, even to a recon. Mmmh, honestly a nanoship with reduced locking range will just not approach, nanoships rule of thumb is just to not get in web range... I'd fly straight into any arazu in an ishtar. Yarr
Elmicker	Posted - 2007.12.27 02:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Avataris there are 5 other ships in game now that get a bonus to warp disrupter range, each one of them is cheaper than the arazu, and more survivable. Listen to the man
Ajenia Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.12.27 04:18:00 - [29] Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Alyth They aren't broken, they are just fine. I have been using my Lachesis to good effect recently. People only think they suck because they can't be bothered training up that lovely signal supression skill that gets damps back where they used to be before the change. Only problem with Gallente recons in my opinion is their cap usage, they can only run their full whack of ewar for about a minute and a half, after that you are a bit screwed without boosters. Yeah, most competent Gallente recon pilots have Sig Suppression 4 or 5. The basic problem comes from that we used to be able to actually do something to a non-sniping battleship. As it stands now, it is impossible to get any battleship damped to web range, which means that you're entirely ineffective at close range combat. More importantly, it means that you cannot help your gang once they're within 15-20km of their target. A single sensor booster on a battleship gives them unaffected locking range all the way out to warp disruptor range (even if you're in a rigged max skilled Gallente recon). Also, I have no problems running my damps and warp disruptor for as long as I need to. -Liang 4 damps and 2 scrams kills my cap for some reason Anyhoo. The gallente recons, as I see it, work very well in tandem with Minmatar ones. Basically one Lachesis/Arazu plus one Huginn/Rapier = dead anything that doesn't get outside of 40km before they lock it. Throw in a Curse (not the Pilgrim unless it has faction gear) and anything with turrets is effectively dead. That way you don't NEED to damp it to web range, just enough that it'll have a hard time locking your support (unless they are very close range ships themselves and in which case damping to web range will have naff all effect on their survivability anyway). As it stands no recon, besides the Curse, is a solopwnmobile and even then a Curse will still die to a competent opponent so why should gallente ones be any different? Thank you for bringing some sense here. Arazu is a stealthy ship, like all force recons. Want to fight properly, grab a Lachesis. Add more recons of other races to compliment it. Lach + Hug = Nasty Lach + Hug + Rook + Curse = A good small, fast, flexible gang. While it's true that they probably do need to be looked at a bit, and adjusted, it's the compliment of each recon (and dammit use combat recons if you're going to face difficult fights) that makes them what they are. Rapiers often setup with damp tanks prior, too. I hated my rapier then even, and would much rather be in a Huginn if I'm going to face solid pilots. Wanna cyno someone, grab your cloak ship. Want to fight. Use a combat recon and compliment it with gang mates. No one said you need to run an all damp setup either. Lach's can gate camp under fire, with a plate tank, while being remote repped, and scram for the gang. I suppose everyone pulls that off in ceptors though. Or why not try a passive shield, nano tank, where you're job is scramming and surviving, and not trying to use all bonuses at once... My huginn never used a target painter... -- It's a pleasure to burn.
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2007.12.27 10:23:00 - [30] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Nanoships use speed to tank, if you trash their lock range then you can web them. Once they're webbed they die, even to a recon. So I damp a vagabond to 20km lock range I move 1500-2000 ms. He moves 5000ms then what do you suggest I do? Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes

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