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Is the Vulture still King of the Passive Tankers ?

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Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.12.30 05:26:00 - [31] bring it then. I would like to see a competent passive shield tank with 4 mid slots. Also prove to me the validity of a non-blaster mission setup with the eos over other CS's. ALSO prove to my why you would want to use an Eos in the passive shield role over the nighthawk, vulture, claymore, and Sleipnir I will admit that the eos does have a pretty effective active armor tank though, but then again so does the Astarte (the astarte can fit more bonused weapons as well). Hmm as a matter of fact, the astarte and the eos have the exact same amount of mids and lows. Why not just passive tank an astarte? You get more damage to boot. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.12.30 07:11:00 - [32] Originally by: Eardianm You guys at least run the numbers by hand then, right? Gee, I dunno. Is 30% (the amount of extra effective hp an extra tech 2 invul give) bigger then the marginal extra shields on one more large tech 2 shield extender past the third one? This isn't difficult math.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.30 07:40:00 - [33] Originally by: Spenz bring it then. I would like to see a competent passive shield tank with 4 mid slots. Also prove to me the validity of a non-blaster mission setup with the eos over other CS's. ALSO prove to my why you would want to use an Eos in the passive shield role over the nighthawk, vulture, claymore, and Sleipnir Does 1224 dps tanked (omni) count as "competent" in your opinion? Granted, the Vulture does a bit better (1695), but either ship can get plenty of tank to handle missions. As for why to use the Eos? Well, having drones is nice when you have no room for damage mods. Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II 250mm Railgun II,Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II,Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II,Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II,Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II,Antimatter Charge M Small Tractor Beam I Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I
Hans Angry Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:33:00 - [34] yes it is still the king of passive tankers, and it does run a fairly good neutron setup, out damages a nighthawk, one of the best field commands in my opinion because it runs good dps, but yeah, still the best passive tank, fine in missions, but other ships are far better Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.12.30 10:52:00 - [35] Edited by: Pottsey on 30/12/2007 10:53:23 "Eos lost a midslot so dont even think about passive shield tanking it," It gained a low slot and low slots are better for passive tanking then mids. Its passive shield tank got stronger. You only need 1 or 2 mids for resistance. "Are you serious? Eos is absolutely the worst mission command ship you can use right now." As a passive shield tank it can tank any missions with ease. It can loot while the drones kill. Yes it lost some firepower but its still a match for the Vulture and it does missions faster as you dont need to warp in and out as much due to looting as you go. Or you can go the 250mm railgun option. I have a 3000dps setup for a high level complex's I like to solo. (solo as only person in complex). So dont make it sound like the Eos does not have a competent tank. "why you would want to use an Eos in the passive shield role over the nighthawk, vulture, claymore, and Sleipnir" Dont need to waste isk on ammo, dont need to take up cargo space with ammo, can loot while killing and have more cargo space for loot, tank strong enough for all missions, damage output pretty much just as good. "Say anything you want, but don't ever say the Eos has a better passive (or any) tank to any command ship. It is an outright lie." I never said that in fact I listed the top 11 best passive tanks and didnt put the Eos in the list. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.12.30 10:56:00 - [36] "Disagree here. Totally depends on use." Your right, I was thinking solo missions but didnt state that in my post. Sometimes use does change it. Even for solo missions sometimes you might want to be extra safe and not kill as fast. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Eardianm Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2007.12.30 14:09:00 - [37] Originally by: J Valkor Originally by: Eardianm You guys at least run the numbers by hand then, right? Gee, I dunno. Is 30% (the amount of extra effective hp an extra tech 2 invul give) bigger then the marginal extra shields on one more large tech 2 shield extender past the third one? This isn't difficult math. Err, yes, that one is. Other choices aren't as much. Didn't mean disrespect, just wondered if people were fitting on math, or gut --------------
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.30 14:25:00 - [38] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 30/12/2007 14:29:40 T2 missile/gunnery bs V for missions. that aside vulture can passive tank most excellently. command ships are NOT designed for solo mission running sigh. You are going to spend a LONG time skilling to fly command ships proper, and then they won't give the dps you expect for mission running (that of a t2 bs V), cause they're not supposed to. pwned npc's = alpha > tank therefore mission running = t2 bs V > cmd ships / hac's the only exception being if you want to blitz lvl 1-3's when running for a new corp for fast standing increase.
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.30 14:31:00 - [39] Originally by: 7shining7one7 Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 30/12/2007 14:29:40 T2 missile/gunnery bs V for missions. that aside vulture can passive tank most excellently. command ships are NOT designed for solo mission running sigh. You are going to spend a LONG time skilling to fly command ships proper, and then they won't give the dps you expect for mission running (that of a t2 bs V), cause they're not supposed to. pwned npc's = alpha > tank therefore mission running = t2 bs V > cmd ships / hac's the only exception being if you want to blitz lvl 1-3's when running for a new corp for fast standing increase. Tell that to my npc lv4 nighthawk
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.30 14:37:00 - [40] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 30/12/2007 14:38:49 Originally by: Waxau Originally by: 7shining7one7 Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 30/12/2007 14:29:40 T2 missile/gunnery bs V for missions. that aside vulture can passive tank most excellently. command ships are NOT designed for solo mission running sigh. You are going to spend a LONG time skilling to fly command ships proper, and then they won't give the dps you expect for mission running (that of a t2 bs V), cause they're not supposed to. pwned npc's = alpha > tank therefore mission running = t2 bs V > cmd ships / hac's the only exception being if you want to blitz lvl 1-3's when running for a new corp for fast standing increase. Tell that to my npc lv4 nighthawk obviously you CAN do lvl 4's in a nighthawk with great skills, it's just a bit silly compared to how fast you can do a lvl 4 in a t2 bs V setup. but it's a cool way to do it when you got nh trained up anyways and want to run missions. kinda like a noisy cricket setup xD (relatively small but tanks like an elephant). i symphatize and fully condone what your doing to have your fun xD but bs vs bs works best ;)
SheriffFruitfly Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.12.30 15:47:00 - [41] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: TECHA Crown being hardest tank to break ... this is for mission running ! I recommend a Drake... Worry-free passive tank 500+ DPS with low SP, enough DPS to do the hardest L4 missions, very pimpable with Faction gear and cheap to start with. Max. easily obtainable DPS with cheap gear and good passive tank is around 342 + Drones with T1 missiles. I wasn't able to complete Vengeance 5 in my drake - couldn't break the boss' tank. Maybe my skills weren't good enuff.
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.30 16:02:00 - [42] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 30/12/2007 16:03:21 Originally by: SheriffFruitfly Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: TECHA Crown being hardest tank to break ... this is for mission running ! I recommend a Drake... Worry-free passive tank 500+ DPS with low SP, enough DPS to do the hardest L4 missions, very pimpable with Faction gear and cheap to start with. Max. easily obtainable DPS with cheap gear and good passive tank is around 342 + Drones with T1 missiles. I wasn't able to complete Vengeance 5 in my drake - couldn't break the boss' tank. Maybe my skills weren't good enuff. The real question is why you are using a bc for that? you can't reduce the dmg fast enough with the drakes comparatively weak damage compared to a bs class ship like the rokh. and pve is all about reducing dmg fast so you can get r done.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.30 16:12:00 - [43] Originally by: SheriffFruitfly Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: TECHA Crown being hardest tank to break ... this is for mission running ! I recommend a Drake... Worry-free passive tank 500+ DPS with low SP, enough DPS to do the hardest L4 missions, very pimpable with Faction gear and cheap to start with. Max. easily obtainable DPS with cheap gear and good passive tank is around 342 + Drones with T1 missiles. I wasn't able to complete Vengeance 5 in my drake - couldn't break the boss' tank. Maybe my skills weren't good enuff. Approach him to avoid damage reduction from Defender missiles ... If necessary, use Faction/T2 missiles. Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.
Eardianm Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2007.12.30 16:16:00 - [44] Originally by: 7shining7one7 Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 30/12/2007 16:03:21 Originally by: SheriffFruitfly Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: TECHA Crown being hardest tank to break ... this is for mission running ! I recommend a Drake... Worry-free passive tank 500+ DPS with low SP, enough DPS to do the hardest L4 missions, very pimpable with Faction gear and cheap to start with. Max. easily obtainable DPS with cheap gear and good passive tank is around 342 + Drones with T1 missiles. I wasn't able to complete Vengeance 5 in my drake - couldn't break the boss' tank. Maybe my skills weren't good enuff. The real question is why you are using a bc for that? you can't reduce the dmg fast enough with the drakes comparatively weak damage compared to a bs class ship like the rokh. and pve is all about reducing dmg fast so you can get r done. He's in a Drake, and you suggest/compare flying a Rokh? "Maybe my skills weren't good enuff" would imply that he's already stretching to do these harder missions in his Drake. I'm sure he would try a Rokh if he had the skills for it. As for the NH in lvl 4s, eh, it's basically on par with a cruise raven for dps. Maybe even a bit better on missions with heavy cruiser support because of the precision bonus. Without a total change of skill sets and after the torp range adjustment, you're not going to get much better unless you shell out for a CNR. Maybe trying Jav torps, I haven't really read anything on the effectiveness of that, let alone ammo costs. If they are willing to train different skill sets, sure, go for a BS. Although it's also, short of a drone Domi (if they fixed the drone aggro issue), going to require much more micro-management than a NH. Some people consider that a fair tradeoff. --------------
7shining7one7 Quafe Paladins	Posted - 2007.12.30 16:27:00 - [45] Originally by: Eardianm Originally by: 7shining7one7 Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 30/12/2007 16:03:21 Originally by: SheriffFruitfly Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: TECHA Crown being hardest tank to break ... this is for mission running ! I recommend a Drake... Worry-free passive tank 500+ DPS with low SP, enough DPS to do the hardest L4 missions, very pimpable with Faction gear and cheap to start with. Max. easily obtainable DPS with cheap gear and good passive tank is around 342 + Drones with T1 missiles. I wasn't able to complete Vengeance 5 in my drake - couldn't break the boss' tank. Maybe my skills weren't good enuff. The real question is why you are using a bc for that? you can't reduce the dmg fast enough with the drakes comparatively weak damage compared to a bs class ship like the rokh. and pve is all about reducing dmg fast so you can get r done. He's in a Drake, and you suggest/compare flying a Rokh? "Maybe my skills weren't good enuff" would imply that he's already stretching to do these harder missions in his Drake. I'm sure he would try a Rokh if he had the skills for it. As for the NH in lvl 4s, eh, it's basically on par with a cruise raven for dps. Maybe even a bit better on missions with heavy cruiser support because of the precision bonus. Without a total change of skill sets and after the torp range adjustment, you're not going to get much better unless you shell out for a CNR. Maybe trying Jav torps, I haven't really read anything on the effectiveness of that, let alone ammo costs. If they are willing to train different skill sets, sure, go for a BS. Although it's also, short of a drone Domi (if they fixed the drone aggro issue), going to require much more micro-management than a NH. Some people consider that a fair tradeoff. good point, didn't see the "missing skills" bit. thx for clearing that up. yeah he might want to wait with that particular mission then hehe
irion felpamy	Posted - 2007.12.30 18:20:00 - [46] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Spenz bring it then. I would like to see a competent passive shield tank with 4 mid slots. Also prove to me the validity of a non-blaster mission setup with the eos over other CS's. ALSO prove to my why you would want to use an Eos in the passive shield role over the nighthawk, vulture, claymore, and Sleipnir Does 1224 dps tanked (omni) count as "competent" in your opinion? Granted, the Vulture does a bit better (1695), but either ship can get plenty of tank to handle missions. As for why to use the Eos? Well, having drones is nice when you have no room for damage mods. Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II 250mm Railgun II,Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II,Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II,Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II,Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II,Antimatter Charge M Small Tractor Beam I Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I that setup caps out in just over 5 mins with max skills and the link and tractor off, it also can't break 200m/s. Its slow, mediocre dps and with weak cap.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.12.30 18:42:00 - [47] "that setup caps out in just over 5 mins with max skills and the link and tractor off"] You could always fit 2 or 3 PDS or 1 cap booster. A little tweaking and its useable. Perhaps fit an afterburner and dont forget the 10% speed boost from being in a gang. The above tweaks lower the tank but its still more then tough enough for missions. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.30 19:24:00 - [48] Edited by: Andrue on 30/12/2007 19:26:37 Originally by: 7shining7one7 Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 30/12/2007 14:29:40 T2 missile/gunnery bs V for missions. that aside vulture can passive tank most excellently. command ships are NOT designed for solo mission running sigh. You are going to spend a LONG time skilling to fly command ships proper, and then they won't give the dps you expect for mission running (that of a t2 bs V), cause they're not supposed to. pwned npc's = alpha > tank therefore mission running = t2 bs V > cmd ships / hac's the only exception being if you want to blitz lvl 1-3's when running for a new corp for fast standing increase. Nah. I dunno about my maths exercise but my NH completes L4 missions nearly as quickly as my corp-mates CNRs and with less hassle. My alt's Sleipnir is now quite capable of running L4 missions solo as well. A lot more work than the NH but it's guns chew up ships very nicely. Probably on a par with a CNR. Several of us use Command Ships for L4 (I only use my NH - put my Raven out to pasture last March) and they do just fine. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Agnesz Nemeth Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.30 19:27:00 - [49] Originally by: Lazuran I recommend a Drake... Worry-free passive tank 500+ DPS with low SP, enough DPS to do the hardest L4 missions, very pimpable with Faction gear and cheap to start with. Max. easily obtainable DPS with cheap gear and good passive tank is around 342 + Drones with T1 missiles. Could you please post the setup for this?

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