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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.12.29 05:01:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Mikelio Raijan
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
PVP playersgenerate a net ISK amount of zero- while they may gain some ISK from combat, they don't put any new ISK into the game, and in fact remove it every time there is a kill. The question isn't 'if', but 'how much' ISK is destroyed.
Just an FYI, PvP is an ISK faucet.
Take a look at how insurance works then have a think about this.
Insurance. T2 ships. Do the math.
Pray tell, how do T2 ships alter the equation?
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DesuSigs |
Jennai
The Greater Goon
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.29 05:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Mikelio Raijan
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
PVP playersgenerate a net ISK amount of zero- while they may gain some ISK from combat, they don't put any new ISK into the game, and in fact remove it every time there is a kill. The question isn't 'if', but 'how much' ISK is destroyed.
Just an FYI, PvP is an ISK faucet.
Take a look at how insurance works then have a think about this.
Insurance. T2 ships. Do the math.
it's still an isk faucet, but much smaller than T1 ships.
isk sinks in T2 production: NPC pos fuel for moon miners and reactors, NPC station factory cost, construction blocks (I think this is the only NPC component used in construction), broker fees and sales tax, insurance purchase. all of these combined is still less than the insurance payout.
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Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
The Acquisition
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Posted - 2007.12.29 05:06:00 -
[33]
Alright, I can't read all these replies, and I'm only gonna make this clear once.
Mining is an ISK sink. You mine the ore. Probably refine it. Doesn't matter. Now you sell the ore, and you get ISK. But that ISK comes from someone else. It doesn't just appear, someone bought your ****. The only net change in the economy is the tax on the transfer that takes a small cut out of the economy.
PVE is an ISK faucet. Mission rewards and bounties are money that just appear out of thin air. Selling the loot is an ISK sink. Again, you got the loot for free, but someone had to buy it/reproccessed minerals from it for you to make money. The only net change there is, again, the tax.
Insurance is an ISK faucet. You buy a Raven. Money exchanges hands between players, but the only net change is tax. You insure the Raven. You lose, say for simplicity's sake, 20 mil ISK. That money is out of the economy. At this point it's an ISK sink. You buy modules. No net change besides tax, because while you're losing money through buying, another player is making money from the sale. It's still in the economy. Now, you lose the Raven. Pirates loot it. You collect, say 100mil from insurance. That money appears from thin air. Half your gear is looted. The pirates sell it. No net change (save taxes), for them to sell someone else has to pay. If it was rigged, also no change. You paid for the rigs, but another player got the money. The ISK is still out there. So the only net change (taxes are fairly negligible) is 100mil you gained from insurance, 20 mil you lost for the initial payment. It's a net 80mil ISK faucet.
Don't confuse your own personal loss with an ISK sink. The money's still out there, you just don't have it any more.
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Aeco Feife
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Posted - 2007.12.29 05:32:00 -
[34]
DonĘt know why I am getting in to another one of these butą.
To oversimplify, prices at a point in time reflect the ratio between money in the system, and the quantity of goods exchanged via that money. So P = money / stuff.
Increasing money generally increases prices (level of stuff fixed), while increasing stuff with no change in money decreases prices.
Applied to Eve, there are three sorts of activities people can engage in:
1. Actions that affect only the level of isk in the economy buying (then training) skills, ratting without looting, and mission payouts. Pure faucets and sinks that impact only the money side.
2. Actions that affect only the level of material wealth in the economy like mining, drone regions, etc that impact only the stuff side
3. Actions that affect both the level of isk and the level of material wealth in the economy. Ratting with looting, building from blueprints, pvp with insurance, everything else in Eve except 1 & 2.
How such an act impacts the level of prices depends on how much isk is generated (destroyed) compared to the current isk value of the goods produced (destroyed).
The part of the trouble with T1 insurance is that it increases the level of isk in the system at the same time the amount of stuff in the system is decreased. A ship is lost, decreasing the stuff in the economy while isk is pumped in, increasing the money side, both forces increasing prices in general.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.12.29 05:37:00 -
[35]
For once, crumple, you're talking nonsense.
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If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.12.29 05:51:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 29/12/2007 04:50:38
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
So I guess what the real questions I'm asking here are this: if mission runners are generating the largest portion of ISK in the game, and PVPers are generating the least amount, then how should we go about designing the game mechanics so that the PVPers have better access to the large amount of ISK/material wealth generated by the mission runners?
I'm not completely certain of what you are asking. To give direct access to that wealth you could start by (drastic example) moving L4 missions to lowsec. That way PvPers can gank carebears and take their expensive mission running gear. But in that case carebears will probably stop fitting expensive gear. Or simply learn to avoid being ganked.
The amount of ISK/wealth that can be made through PvP is determined by how much people risk and subsequently lose in PvP. Mission runners have a lot of wealth because they risk as little as possible, so there's not much you can do to change it really.
In terms of giving PvPers non-missioning ways of making their own money, that's a case of boosting lowsec and 0.0 moneymaking I guess... or just removing missions completely. That'd be a laugh.
I guess this is what I'm thinking about. Both you and Haanobaal have replied similarly. Wouldn't the continual stockpiling of ISK by mission runners with nothing to spend it on make my ISK worth relatively less, as for example, they could always out-bid me on items on auction, or w/e? Just because people can spend ISK like it's water, the most valuable items get bid up like crazy, pushing them out of reach of normal players.
I still don't know about this however, as it's not making sense exactly. It still feels strange some how, as with the drop in module prices (T2 in particular) then it's less expensive to fit ships, but for each ship kill I make, I earn less ISK from the loot in the form of module resale.
So as a pirate, is it in my best interest to have modules be worth more ISK, and have all items be more expensive? Or is it better for me to have stuff priced lower, knowing that I maintain a kill ratio of about 100:1?
Is the ability of mission runners to generate so much ISK risk free a good thing for Eve and it's economy? At what point would it be worthwhile for mission runners to want to run missions in low sec? I've never been killed running a L4 low sec or 0.0 mission (or any other mission anywhere at all for that matter). So I don't personally understand the apprehension of mission runners about doing missions in low sec.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.12.29 07:48:00 -
[37]
The super rich in EVE are not mission runners.
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Lardarz B'stard
Amarr
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.12.29 07:49:00 -
[38]
"Faucet" is a stupid word.
The correct expression is "tap".
Originally by: Kindakrof
there is no gravity in space
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.29 08:07:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/12/2007 08:09:11
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 29/12/2007 04:50:38
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
So I guess what the real questions I'm asking here are this: if mission runners are generating the largest portion of ISK in the game, and PVPers are generating the least amount, then how should we go about designing the game mechanics so that the PVPers have better access to the large amount of ISK/material wealth generated by the mission runners?
I'm not completely certain of what you are asking. To give direct access to that wealth you could start by (drastic example) moving L4 missions to lowsec. That way PvPers can gank carebears and take their expensive mission running gear. But in that case carebears will probably stop fitting expensive gear. Or simply learn to avoid being ganked.
The amount of ISK/wealth that can be made through PvP is determined by how much people risk and subsequently lose in PvP. Mission runners have a lot of wealth because they risk as little as possible, so there's not much you can do to change it really.
It is not possible to give PvPers a way to get more wealth from PvPing as it is a negative sum activity as material wealt go:
at the end of a PvP encounter one of the players has less material wealth than before. Even if the target escape, there are still the ammunition expended, if the target is killed there is the loss of ships, modules and implants.
Unless Bellum want to receive a bounty for each PC target killed.
Crumplecorn, your idea of moving missions again do nothing as the mission runner going to low sec and partaking in PvP is a doing PvP, so at the end there is less material wealth between the two parties again (unless you define PvPers differently than someone that is doing PvP and have some vision of a "professional" PvPers against "non-professional" PvPers division).
Again Bellum: you are still loosing a point PvP is a isk faucet because of the insurance, the loser get less material wealth but more isk. That increase the quantity of isk in the system and is a large isk faucet (BTW, you are forgetting ratting, especially in 0.0, as a isk faucet).
Originally by: Xaen
Just an FYI, PvP is an ISK faucet.
Take a look at how insurance works then have a think about this.
Insurance. T2 ships. Do the math.
Indifferent Xaen, even if the insurance payout was 1 isk more than the cost, it is an isk faucet. You lose material wealth when you lose a ship, not isk, but you (and the whole system) gain isk.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.12.29 09:25:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
-clipped for characters-
Notable stuff Venkul. Thanks for the constructive posting.
In regard to adding bounties for PC kills, a while ago I suggested exactly that for the concept of factional warfare.
IMO the real issue of PVPers not being able to access the ISK made by mission runners (ratters in 0.0 contribute to a very minute amount of the ISK generated in Eve compared to mission runners in empire) is due to the mission runners never coming into contact with PVPers *ever*. Yeah, I guess this is a stuck record, but I was just thinking about the groups of ISK in Eve and what it's doing to the economy, and what really drives the Eve economy.
I mean, doesn't destruction of assets (PVP) produce the sole reason for the Eve economy to exist? Otherwise you'd have 100% saturation of all goods (assuming a stable number of players) and no one would need to buy anything other than a few low cost consumables such as ammo. What else other than PVP and small NPC charges like sales tax etc. really drives ISK loss?
I'd be quite interested to see the correlation between players wallets and their sec status, as well as their ship type losses and system locations.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Skyslider
Gallente
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.12.29 09:31:00 -
[41]
You have missed a few ISK sinks:
Mission running generates LP, Isk and Material. LP store converts LP and Isk into material. This has a negative feedback loop with inflation/deflation of Isk as when isk is deflated, you can get more personal value by using the pure LP option, creating material without sinking isk; when Isk is inflated, you gain more value by spending isk and a much lesser amount of LP, sinking isk and creating material (and then sinking more isk in tax/broker fees as you trade the item to another player for inflated isk).
All POS modules are either purchased from market seeds initially, or required a POS module purchased from a market seed as part of their construction. Territorial disputes tend to destroy large quantities of these modules, which tend to be replaced, resulting in a large isk sink without much change in materials. This sink has been weakened somewhat as of Trinity due to the ability to capture everything but the towers.
Outpost construction takes massive amounts of components purchased from market seeds, sinking isk.
Inflation should also be moderated by shuttles, which can be purchased from market seeds and refined into minerals.
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Caligulus
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.12.29 10:29:00 -
[42]
The single greatest source of inflation is payouts on insured ships. The second greatest source of inflation would be bounties on 0.0 rats and BS mission rats.
Eliminating insurance especially for piracy would clamp down vastly on isk entering the game.
That being said i'm pretty sure it wont be too long before bounties are the number one source. Damn RMT farmers. Gotta get rid of the morons buying isk to drive these fools away.
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**** Name ONE thing that your windows comp can do that my MAC cant
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.12.29 10:31:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 29/12/2007 10:35:43
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 29/12/2007 10:31:51
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I was doing some thinking while waiting for some carebears to undock their carriers and came to some conclusions:
ISK 'faucets' such as missions and mining are increasing the total volume of ISK in the system, while the major ISK 'sinks' are things like PVP and ammo consumption.
You do not in fact have even a basic course in economics, obviously. PvP is more of a ISK faucet then sink (due to insurance) - PvP has the two-fold effect of increasing ISK in circulation and decreasing items in circulation**. Ammo consumption (since ammo is bought from players) merely decreases items in circulation*.
*This is not counting in the trivially small trade tax.
** Decrease in material in circulation is neither a ISK sink or faucet. It does have a inflatory influence of the economy, but we do not, in fact, have inflation; meaning more stuff is mined (which is neither a ISK sink or faucet, merely increases the amount of material in circulation) then destroyed.
Edit: did anyone mention inflation in thread? There is no inflation. Move along.
Rifters!
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.12.29 10:33:00 -
[44]
did you read the report or watch the fanfest video on this?
there is actually deflation currently in eve. things are going down in price not up.
inflation would mean things are costing more to buy.
however the cost of living in eve is going down.
thus deflation.
pink supporter!
Future art director at CCP!
or texture guy, either or :P
http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop
Was in class with these folks :P |
Jonny JoJo
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.12.29 10:59:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 29/12/2007 11:00:40
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Mikelio Raijan
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
PVP playersgenerate a net ISK amount of zero- while they may gain some ISK from combat, they don't put any new ISK into the game, and in fact remove it every time there is a kill. The question isn't 'if', but 'how much' ISK is destroyed.
Just an FYI, PvP is an ISK faucet.
Take a look at how insurance works then have a think about this.
Insurance. T2 ships. Do the math.
T2 ship has build cost of pretty much the insurance value - its just that people like you decide to pay more than build cost. Some people even pay 10 million for a shuttle, that does not mean that shuttle should be insured for 10mil.
However build/Market cost is irrelevant. The ship is made from minerals/goods and when blown, it creates isk in the form of insurance. Thus the TOTAL isk in the game has gone up, not down, since the money you spend on buying that ship is still in the game.
E.G
T2 ship gives out 2mil insurance. Costs about 2 mil to make. You buy on market from reseller for 200mil. Total isk in game = 200mil.
Ship dies and you get 2 mil insurance. Total isk in game 202mil.
Now do the maths yourself and relise you dont know what isk faucet is
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Zey Nadar
Gallente
Jade Phoenix Consortium
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:12:00 -
[46]
Arent skillbooks a kind of isk sink?
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Melor Rend
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:20:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Melor Rend on 29/12/2007 11:20:31
I think the OP got the ISK-sinks wrong: Anything thats player made (e.g. rigs, pvp-ships, ammo etc.) are definatly NOT ISK-sinks since the ISK is still in-game after you buy a ship - it just changed hands. Then you insure your ship for 20mil (these 20mil are out of the game since insurance is NPC service = 20mil ISK "sunk") then you go loose your ship and get 100mil payed back to you so instead of "sinking" any ISK, you actually pumped 80mil ISK extra into the market.
The only things that can be considered "ISK-sinks" are services or transactions that remove the ISK from the game (and not just your individual wallet since the ISK still remains in the game that way).
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Cat Casidy
Wise Guys
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:31:00 -
[48]
SECOND! to contribute absolutley nothing to this M thread!
... I knew YOU had too much time on your hands, but who would've thought so many other people did too?? 
My two cents..... you owe me a nickle now btw |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
SIVAKASI
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:32:00 -
[49]
I am not an economist Melor Rand but let me see if I have understood you correctly. Are you saying that PVP is actually destroying the economy by making ISKs available more freely in the game? It sounds a bit oxymoron to me unless I have completely misunderstood you.
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment
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Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:35:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I was doing some thinking while waiting for some carebears to undock their carriers and came to some conclusions:
ISK 'faucets' such as missions and mining
How does mining generate isk?
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Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345 |
Cat Casidy
Wise Guys
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:36:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Cat Casidy on 29/12/2007 11:38:31
Jenny, I think he forgot that ships have mods on them that get blown up along with the ship... not to mention cargo
edit- but ya like i said before i have nothing to contribute here and frankly I'm in the middle of making a meatloaf and lots of things sound like they're close to being "why did you burn me you bastard!" so yaa
My two cents..... you owe me a nickle now btw |
7shining7one7
Quafe Paladins
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I was doing some thinking while waiting for some carebears to undock their carriers and came to some conclusions:
ISK 'faucets' such as missions and mining are increasing the total volume of ISK in the system, while the major ISK 'sinks' are things like PVP and ammo consumption.
So to that end, ISK faucets are highly detrimental to the value of ISK as the volume of ISK increases, while the need to purchase new items decreases, if the 'sinks' can't keep up with the faucets, assuming that population remains static (as we're looking at the volume of ISK per capita).
CCP has introduced some interesting sinks into the game lately (rigs and faction ammo are very expensive, yet essential for PVP use and 100% consumable), but I find it amusing that they've introduced mechanics such as these, and not removed others such as insurance (an easy way to remove ISK from the game).
Additionally, mission runners in high sec are creating what I would think is a vast amount of ISK in the game with little to no ISK removal on their own part with the exception of ammunition consumption. This means that everyone else in Eve *except* the mission runners have to shoulder the burden of removing ISK from the game by either destroying or losing ships.
As was indicated by the QEN (Quarterly Economic Newsletter), PVPers (players that I would classify as living in 0.0 or low sec. Empire 'PVP'rs are probably an even smaller minority than low sec or 0.0) are a very small minority, as everyone with -3.0 sec or less is less than 1% of the population, and a very small portion of the players lives in 0.0 compared to empire. Furthermore, I'm sure it's obvious that of all the population in 0.0, only a small percentage of those players are actually PVPers, with the rest being industrial/farming players.
So here we have game mechanics that generate large amounts of ISK into the economy by the majority of the player base, while a very small fraction of the player base is responsible for removing it. Additionally, those who remove the ISK generate the least amount of ISK into the economy and have the least amount of purchasing power, when compared to the other players in the system.
PVP playersgenerate a net ISK amount of zero- while they may gain some ISK from combat, they don't put any new ISK into the game, and in fact remove it every time there is a kill. The question isn't 'if', but 'how much' ISK is destroyed.
Players like mission runners (as an example) generate an infinite amount of ISK (given enough time) and remove almost zero ISK from the game (in the form of ammunition, this includes drones etc., and a few ships due to noob losses). The more ISK a mission runner generates, the less likely he is to remove ISK from the economy, as the mission runner becomes more experienced and buys better modules/ships for mission running.
Where is the balance in this?
uh.. i'm not entirely sure what it is your talking about or wanting to say exactly, because i think you must have made a mistake or is this a joke thread.
but anyways speaking of which, how about 0.0 mission running for pirate faction ships, how about plex running and 0.0 exploration for faction stuff and other such things. how about r&d invention etc. and the list goes on and on and on...
your post seems kinda like this;
"i haven't got a clue about eve besides pvp'ing in low sec, so uhm i guess i think empire is kinda sucky cause they should fly in low sec and get ganked by me, so i'll make this post to encourage ppl to pvp more since i percieve an imbalance that isn't really there.."
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:39:00 -
[53]
In after, and almost certainly before, people who don't bother reading the thread.
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DesuSigs |
Corpse Mage
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:40:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Corpse Mage on 29/12/2007 11:40:27
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
stuff
uh.. i'm not entirely sure what it is your talking about or wanting to say exactly, because i think you must have made a mistake or is this a joke thread.
but anyways speaking of which, how about 0.0 mission running for pirate faction ships, how about plex running and 0.0 exploration for faction stuff and other such things. how about r&d invention etc. and the list goes on and on and on...
your post seems kinda like this;
"i haven't got a clue about eve besides pvp'ing in low sec, so uhm i guess i think empire is kinda sucky cause they should fly in low sec and get ganked by me, so i'll make this post to encourage ppl to pvp more since i percieve an imbalance that isn't really there.."
QFT lol
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2007.12.29 11:59:00 -
[55]
You just won't stop until you can literally grief people out of the game, will you?
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.12.29 12:02:00 -
[56]
Originally by: 7shining7one7
...stuff...
No, what I'm trying to understand/figure out is what really drives Eve's economy. In particular, what creates the market demand for goods. Mission runners? Industrialists? Explorers? Miners? PVPers? Pirates?
Why do people need new goods? Do they run out of ships? Do ships wear out? Specifically ships and modules. Drones, ammo, cap charges, stuff like that is consumable. I get that. But what about ships? Besides the occasional screw up by a noob carebear where he loses his T1 BC to a mission every once in a while, what is the major driving force in the Eve economy? Why are manufacturers able to sell so many ships and modules?
I want to know where all the stuff is going. Maybe I'm really off and mission runners are just *way* dumber than I think they are, and just lose *tons* of mission running ships. Personally I haven't lost a ship to an NPC in oh... I can't remember when, it's been so long. But it just seems weird to me that anything other than PVP drives the Eve economy. Who's buying all those cap ships? Where are the old ones going? What about all those ships that arn't Ravens? Who uses them and for what?
Anyone else noticing that the prices for CNRs, Navy Megas and other faction BS is dropping through the floor? Why? Market saturation. All the mission runners already have a maxed out CNR/Navy Mega/whatever and don't need any more.
So I'm wondering what is the most important group of people in Eve when it comes to a healthy economy, and why that is, and how to generate a more vigorous turn over and exchange of ISK/material wealth between the players who have it, and those who don't. Isn't it bad for the economy for wealth to stagnate and not move anywhere?
Like I said, the economics of Eve is something that I don't clearly understand, and is something I'm trying to figure out. Sure, I've read all the dev blogs about stuff, but so far none of the information has really answered any of the questions I have just posed. All the dev blog stuff has shown so far are some general statistics that have little to no real meaning, like the Vagabond being the 'most destroyed' T2 ship. Who cares? There is no context to that statistic, and is therefore meaningless.
So anyway, stop being a smartass and try to add something to the thread.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.12.29 12:04:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
You just won't stop until you can literally grief people out of the game, will you?
A) There is no such thing as 'griefing' in Eve.
B) It is very common (almost every day) that I am the root cause of someone quitting the game permanently. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Antodias
Ethically Challenged
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Posted - 2007.12.29 12:13:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
In after, and almost certainly before, people who don't bother reading the thread.
QFT
Originally by: Wet Ferret
You just won't stop until you can literally grief people out of the game, will you?
Go away troll.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edit: did anyone mention inflation in thread? There is no inflation. Move along.
I would think there would a least be a little. The amount of material leaving the economy (destroyed modules etc) doesn't seem to equate to the amount entering. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Politically Correct since 2007. No really. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.29 12:16:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Cat Casidy
Edited by: Cat Casidy on 29/12/2007 11:38:31
Jenny, I think he forgot that ships have mods on them that get blown up along with the ship... not to mention cargo
edit- but ya like i said before i have nothing to contribute here and frankly I'm in the middle of making a meatloaf and lots of things sound like they're close to being "why did you burn me you bastard!" so yaa
Sigh, to repeat it again:
no isk has left the game to build or buy those modules or the ship so even if the player has less net worth, the whole community as more isk.
When something that has been player built with player gathered resources or gathered from rats is blow up no isk leave the game.
When a ship is blow up no isk leave the game, but isk enter the game from the insurance payout.
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Thorek Ironbrow
Ironbrow Industries Co.
Empire Research
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Posted - 2007.12.29 12:17:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Thorek Ironbrow on 29/12/2007 12:17:12
Technically, insurance is a sink. Because if you think about it. If you pay 2 million to insure a Caracal for 6 million. You've spent 8 million. You get it blown up, you only get 6 million back to buy the Caracal. But you don't get the other two million back unless you do some good missions or get something worth over two million. Maybe if the price to insure a ship was increased, that would be a big sink, especially since I'm sure everyone insures their ship.
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Thorek Ironbrow of Ironbrow Industries Co.
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