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UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2007.12.29 17:58:00 - [1] With rumors of a Speed nerf, how would you fit out a Vagabond if your could not use speed mods (except MWD/afterburber). I'm just curiouse to see what people can come up with. This is what I thought up of, (yes it's EFT but I'm on holiday so it's all i can manage at the moment, if anyone can test them on sisi, it would be awesome ) Solo set up Gang set up
Reap Ares	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:17:00 - [2] Doomed in the fires of fail. Needs more nanos and polycarbs.
Shigsy coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:24:00 - [3] Originally by: UGLYUGLY With rumors of a Speed nerf, how would you fit out a Vagabond if your could not use speed mods You wouldn't.
Zephyr Rengate Racketeers	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:25:00 - [4] You broke the forum, dont post images just put a link to them.
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:25:00 - [5] Originally by: Reap Ares Doomed in the fires of fail. Needs more nanos and polycarbs. Do you not quite grasp the concept of this topic?
Soros 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:33:00 - [6] Edited by: Soros on 29/12/2007 18:34:15 Edited by: Soros on 29/12/2007 18:33:31 lol a constructive topic gets flamed ... For the vaga I would opt for an active armour tank seeing as it has more lows, and meds are needed for tackling so something like ... x5 425 t2's whatever fits mwd, web, scram, injector, med rep, dcu, ean, x2 gyro x2 falloff rigs could be quite decent ... really need to get myself EFT edit : logging onto test to try something out
Zhulik Abyss Restless Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:41:00 - [7] BLASPHEMY! /me shrieks like a fruit bat
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:43:00 - [8] Originally by: UGLYUGLY Edited by: UGLYUGLY on 29/12/2007 18:28:14 Edited by: UGLYUGLY on 29/12/2007 18:26:58 With rumors of a Speed nerf, how would you fit out a Vagabond if your could not use speed mods (except MWD/afterburber). I would simply use a Sleipnir. It costs as much as a Vaga with Polycarbs and does more damage / tanks better. Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.
Soros 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Zhulik BLASPHEMY! /me shrieks like a fruit bat I think people fail from reading the OP before posting, the OP suggests that if speed rigs and or/ low slot speed modules are nerfed further / removed what will be a functionable setup for the vaga gj op .. epic fail for following posters
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:45:00 - [10] Best setup for a Vagabond if they remove speed mods are you are implying would be as following: Right Click -> Reprocess -> Ok
Soros 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 29/12/2007 18:45:37 Best setup for a Vagabond if they remove speed mods as you are implying would be as following: Right Click -> Reprocess -> Ok you are wrong.. the vaga can make a good armour tanker its just that it works far better as a nano ship, even as an armour tanker it will still be pretty speedy and using falloff rigs it could still beat most hacs its called thinking outside of the box dont give up on the vaga, the speed nerf us unlikely anyway due to the storm it would create amongst my corpmates, and many others
lyrenna Caldari Soliders Of Eve The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:56:00 - [12] erm am i wrong or non-nano**a is a dead**a, isnt?
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:57:00 - [13] Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 29/12/2007 18:58:14 I know, but most people have knee-jerk reactions and will instantly abandon it. If the speed nerf is across modules, people fail to realize that the current speed ships will still be fast enough (assumin' you can only use 1 overdrive/nano/etc) to orbit out of range. I fly a slow Vagabond (4km/s) in comparison to what the EFT warriors post and it works just fine. A non-nano Vaga will be faster than all the other non-nano HACs and higher regardless; just don't engage missile ships. Armor tanking though means less gyros and more tanks you cant break.
Shigsy coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.29 18:59:00 - [14] Originally by: Soros Originally by: Ariel Dawn Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 29/12/2007 18:45:37 Best setup for a Vagabond if they remove speed mods as you are implying would be as following: Right Click -> Reprocess -> Ok you are wrong.. the vaga can make a good armour tanker its just that it works far better as a nano ship, even as an armour tanker it will still be pretty speedy and using falloff rigs it could still beat most hacs its called thinking outside of the box dont give up on the vaga, the speed nerf us unlikely anyway due to the storm it would create amongst my corpmates, and many others Tbh, a muninn does it much better. Theres no reason to use a vaga over a muninn for that kind of situation.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.29 19:04:00 - [15] Was gonna say that before in response, but Muninn is a fair amount slower and has no falloff bonus so while they would be somewhat similar, the advantage would be to the Vaga.
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2007.12.29 19:05:00 - [16] Thank you Soros for your productive post. I'm just looking to see if people can think of set up outside of Nano box.
Bazman Caldari Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.29 19:14:00 - [17] If worst comes to worst, you will at least see 2 OD II Vagabonds, which are still flipping fast, and the rest of the nano slots (rigs slots and 1 or 2 lows) going towards augmenting the guns or shield. Result? Slightly less agility, slightly more mass, and much better shield buffer. -----
Culitza	Posted - 2007.12.29 19:23:00 - [18] Armor tanking minmatar t2 ships is crap imo. You either have shield tank or speed tank, end of story, can't tank a ship with two major gaps in it's resists.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.29 19:32:00 - [19] 5x 220, neut 2x LSE, scram, mwd 2-3x gyro, dcu, 2-1x pdu dual falloff rigs, or falloff / kin resist. Armortanking vagabond = lol EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
Annowyn Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.29 19:33:00 - [20] Originally by: Ryysa 5x 220, neut 2x LSE, scram, mwd 2-3x gyro, dcu, 2-1x pdu dual falloff rigs, or falloff / kin resist. Armortanking vagabond = lol Quoted For Truth
Flurren	Posted - 2007.12.29 19:43:00 - [21] People saying its not worth flying if speed is nerfed - its still at least 25% faster than any other ship in its class meaning it can always dictate range which is usually the most important factor in combat. Unfortunately its armor resists suck so much ass their lips have gone brown just like every other t2 minnie ship.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.29 19:51:00 - [22] Originally by: Flurren People saying its not worth flying if speed is nerfed - its still at least 25% faster than any other ship in its class meaning it can always dictate range which is usually the most important factor in combat. Only that the relative speed compared to other ships in its class is irrelevant for real combat situations. In order to dictate range, you need to be faster than all webbers (that you can't kill quickly) on the battlefield and out of their range and also able to run your MWD long enough. Alternatively, you need to outdamage your enemies at any range to force them to move into their optimals... Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.
Hans Angry Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.12.29 21:21:00 - [23] not sure on this vaga fit, it probably is a bad idea, but i would fit 425's with hail and 3 gyro's... do over 600 dps and be wtf pwn mobile... i think the rep vaga wouldnt be horrible, but nerfing the speed more is stupid Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.29 21:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Hans Angry not sure on this vaga fit, it probably is a bad idea, but i would fit 425's with hail and 3 gyro's... do over 600 dps and be wtf pwn mobile... i think the rep vaga wouldnt be horrible, but nerfing the speed more is stupid You won't even kill a 30m T1 fitted drake before it pops you in that... 600 dps isn't enough to kill much when you have to be at 1Km to get full damage. You will be webbed and popped due to much lower hp than your target. Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.
Hans Angry Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.12.29 21:31:00 - [25] Edited by: Hans Angry on 29/12/2007 21:34:26 yeah, though it was a bad idea... good news about the setup though, it fits the 2 lse II's, yeah, im still toying around with it, but the rep would be the best setup, or training for the deimos :P, ah that 425 vaga fir a mwd too... so its not stationary, but still a bad idea Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.29 21:32:00 - [26] Very sorry to say but a non-moving vaga is a dead one. Even with a few resist mods most close range battleships will shred you in 10 seconds and a maelstrom could probably instapop you. Originally by: ISD Cortes You're at liberty to use the rolling sig you had, as long as there's no chimeras covering the nether regions of voluptuous females.
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2007.12.30 03:15:00 - [27] So you might not be able to solo a close range battleship. Be selective with targets. Yes nano is the best way to fit a vaga. This is not a topic about finding something better than nano. It's about alternative set ups if in the worse case Nano is no longer viable. Gank set up http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7833/ganksd8.jpg
Flurren	Posted - 2007.12.30 03:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Sokratesz Very sorry to say but a non-moving vaga is a dead one. Even with a few resist mods most close range battleships will shred you in 10 seconds and a maelstrom could probably instapop you. If speed is nerfed then all ships will go slower. Hence you'll still be far faster than that close range BS and you'll still be able to orbit him and dodge his turrets while hitting with your own. The problem is when you come up against a new torp raven :S, best just warp out in that situation really (though torps have a pretty low explosion velocity and we dont know how badly speed will be nerfed).
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2007.12.30 03:28:00 - [29] Just like the Muninn, or the minnie command ships. Though, tbh, outside a nano setup I have no real motivation to fly one over other ships that do the same thing better with a similar skill set.
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.30 04:56:00 - [30] I would put lasers on it.
Hans Angry Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.12.30 05:17:00 - [31] Originally by: Flurren Originally by: Sokratesz Very sorry to say but a non-moving vaga is a dead one. Even with a few resist mods most close range battleships will shred you in 10 seconds and a maelstrom could probably instapop you. If speed is nerfed then all ships will go slower. Hence you'll still be far faster than that close range BS and you'll still be able to orbit him and dodge his turrets while hitting with your own. The problem is when you come up against a new torp raven :S, best just warp out in that situation really (though torps have a pretty low explosion velocity and we dont know how badly speed will be nerfed). tracking wont change though, missile speeds wont be changed, if your to slow to out run that crap, your dead Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. And it was ten times too big :p If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Bashiri Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.30 05:21:00 - [32] Originally by: Soros Originally by: Zhulik BLASPHEMY! /me shrieks like a fruit bat I think people fail from reading the OP before posting, the OP suggests that if speed rigs and or/ low slot speed modules are nerfed further / removed what will be a functionable setup for the vaga gj op .. epic fail for following posters At least you read the op before posting everyone else will complain like how the caldari cried about there torps getting nerf(i think it's better) when trin patch came out. Someone is giving info try it out then judge his setup.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion	Posted - 2007.12.30 10:44:00 - [33] Vaga won't be nerfed as bad as other ships, because it was designed for speed in the first place. If vaga couldn't go really fast, then it either needs a complete redesign or nobody will use them. Vaga is speed or nothing. You can't, and shouldn't, fit a vaga if you can't nano it. Fly a Muninn instead. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.30 11:35:00 - [34] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/12/2007 11:35:07 Originally by: Soros Originally by: Ariel Dawn Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 29/12/2007 18:45:37 Best setup for a Vagabond if they remove speed mods as you are implying would be as following: Right Click -> Reprocess -> Ok you are wrong.. the vaga can make a good armour tanker its just that it works far better as a nano ship, even as an armour tanker it will still be pretty speedy and using falloff rigs it could still beat most hacs its called thinking outside of the box dont give up on the vaga, the speed nerf us unlikely anyway due to the storm it would create amongst my corpmates, and many others Well, yes, if you want to tank a damage a frigate doesn, it is a good armour tanker. However, a T2-fit Rupture with a high-skilled pilot would most likely melt the setup above. If you could in theory never use speed mods, you'd probably want to put three gyrostabs and then LSEs like you do now. Remaining lows would probably be a DC II and PDUs or something, fitted with a kin resist rig it has a almost OK tank and preety good damage. You'd still fly it exactly the same way as you do now. Rifters!
Mortuus Minmatar Sarum A Fortiori	Posted - 2007.12.30 15:10:00 - [35] Simple, sell Vagabonds, buy Hurricanes. That or use the current setups, just swap out the Overdrives for a DCU t2, and whatever else. Still fast enough to take down most things, just doesn't avoid missles. ex-Occassus Republica <3
Xoduse Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.12.30 17:26:00 - [36] Edited by: Xoduse on 30/12/2007 17:27:39 Edited by: Xoduse on 30/12/2007 17:25:49 Originally by: Annowyn Originally by: Ryysa 5x 220, neut 2x LSE, scram, mwd 2-3x gyro, dcu, 2-1x pdu dual falloff rigs, or falloff / kin resist. Armortanking vagabond = lol Quoted For Truth People think a vaga has to be insanely fast to work, with polycarbs and such. IMO as long as you can get back to the gate in a large gate camp your vaga is fast enough. The part most people die at is hauling ass back to the gate and bouncing off... My vaga runs around 4300 m/s and works just fine. Polycarbs are nice, but increase the cost of the vaga 100% just by fitting them . I run 5x 220mm IIs 1x nos 1x mwd 1x scram 2x large shield extender IIs 2x gyro 1x nano 1x overdrive 1x PDS II 1x fall off rig 1x shield extender rig... Works like a charm. If the speed mods are nerfed into oblivion I'll just use another gyro and another PDS II.. give it a beefier passive tank to try and make up for a bit of lost speed tank. --------------------------------- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Valorem ([email protected])
Sebroth Coordination Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.30 22:27:00 - [37] it depends on what speed I would get from a nano setup after the nerf. I would never put a aktive armor tank on it since then I can just as well use a hurricane or a sleipnir. It is the vagas ability to get the hell out of disruptor/weapon range before you pop that makes it good ship. If it lose that ability and the only thing it have left is "good" range with ACs I will just leave it in the hangar and use a sleipnir... ...or even a cerb. ----- Never knock on Death's door; ring the doorbell and run (he hates that)
Vaal Erit	Posted - 2007.12.30 22:28:00 - [38] Originally by: Gneeznow I would put lasers on it. Mining lasers, yes oh yes.
Undertovv	Posted - 2008.01.01 03:14:00 - [39] How many times is speed going to be nerfed? There are many ships that rely on speed as a tank. Nerfing speed is not the solution. The people who whine about "speed" need to be nerfed.
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2008.01.01 03:27:00 - [40] Biggest ACs you can fit, Heavy (assault) missile launcher mwd, 2 LSE, 1 warp disruptor 3 pds, 2 gyro 2 falloff rigs, or tank rigs(extender, res) or combination of those. Vagabond is still an awesome ship, even with no nanos.
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.01.01 03:34:00 - [41] Originally by: Mortuus Simple, sell Vagabonds, buy Hurricanes. That or use the current setups, just swap out the Overdrives for a DCU t2, and whatever else. Still fast enough to take down most things, just doesn't avoid missles. Truth. Fly a Sleipnir or a Hurricane if you're not gonna nano it out.
Undertovv	Posted - 2008.01.01 04:14:00 - [42] Your kidding me? The vagabond an armor tanker? I'm sure the blackbird would make a good armor tanker too. Let me ask you this, are you a reborn noob?
Evron	Posted - 2008.01.01 04:19:00 - [43] Right Click -> Reprocess
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.01 04:36:00 - [44] Lol even if the vaga get speed nerfed, the ship itself still needs a nerf. Without any speed mods except a MWD and good nav skills it gets 2.9kps. Can orbit at 20km due to its agility and with 5 x 220mm Vulcans and hobgoblins can get close to 500dps. Whilst having a 10k nice resisted shield regen tank, of which doesnt really have to worry about a great deal at 2.5kps orbit speed. I actually want to fly one now haha!
Bill Lummberg Minmatar SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2008.01.01 06:25:00 - [45] Dude u can totally fit an awesome Shield tank on a Vaga, and I'm not even a great player. The thing is without massive speed tank you lose the ability to solopwnmobile (in my opinion). I rigged my Vaga with Auxilliary Thrusters 1 and Kinetic Shield Resist 1. This Brings Base shields up to 75 60 58 60. Then I Put two T2 Lrg Shield EXT's and two T2 Invulnerability Fields. This brings resists to around 88,82,80,82 with around 8-9K shield HP(not exact figures). Then I stick on a T2 DC for a lil extra armour resist and a huge structure resist, two T2 Power Diagnostic and a T2 Trac enhncr. Then fit guns and missiles to your pleasure. Stick in your Fav T2 drones and you get a massive Tank and decent DMG. Sure you wont be fast, sure you will need a tackler, sure there are people will say this is dumb and crazy. But all it takes is a lil imagination and plus NO ONE will see this coming. A slow heavy Exteme Heavy Shield Tank VAGA WTF!?! All you have to do is re-think Vaga from a Solo Gank and Run to a Gang Bait and Wait. Who would turn down trying to pop a slow Vaga?
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion	Posted - 2008.01.01 07:23:00 - [46] Originally by: Bill Lummberg Dude u can totally fit an awesome Shield tank on a Vaga, and I'm not even a great player. The thing is without massive speed tank you lose the ability to solopwnmobile (in my opinion). I rigged my Vaga with Auxilliary Thrusters 1 and Kinetic Shield Resist 1. This Brings Base shields up to 75 60 58 60. Then I Put two T2 Lrg Shield EXT's and two T2 Invulnerability Fields. This brings resists to around 88,82,80,82 with around 8-9K shield HP(not exact figures). Then I stick on a T2 DC for a lil extra armour resist and a huge structure resist, two T2 Power Diagnostic and a T2 Trac enhncr. Then fit guns and missiles to your pleasure. Stick in your Fav T2 drones and you get a massive Tank and decent DMG. Sure you wont be fast, sure you will need a tackler, sure there are people will say this is dumb and crazy. But all it takes is a lil imagination and plus NO ONE will see this coming. A slow heavy Exteme Heavy Shield Tank VAGA WTF!?! All you have to do is re-think Vaga from a Solo Gank and Run to a Gang Bait and Wait. Who would turn down trying to pop a slow Vaga? Problem is you don't have any ability to maintain it. If you use a slot for a shield booster, it'd run cap out in about 15 seconds. It has very little cap and its forced to shield tank, which makes you a very gimp sleipnir. Even sleipnir tank only lasts like 30-45 seconds under pressure.. boost minmatar :P _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.01 13:55:00 - [47] Originally by: Bill Lummberg Dude u can totally fit an awesome Shield tank on a Vaga, and I'm not even a great player. The thing is without massive speed tank you lose the ability to solopwnmobile (in my opinion). I rigged my Vaga with Auxilliary Thrusters 1 and Kinetic Shield Resist 1. This Brings Base shields up to 75 60 58 60. Then I Put two T2 Lrg Shield EXT's and two T2 Invulnerability Fields. This brings resists to around 88,82,80,82 with around 8-9K shield HP(not exact figures). Then I stick on a T2 DC for a lil extra armour resist and a huge structure resist, two T2 Power Diagnostic and a T2 Trac enhncr. Then fit guns and missiles to your pleasure. Stick in your Fav T2 drones and you get a massive Tank and decent DMG. Sure you wont be fast, sure you will need a tackler, sure there are people will say this is dumb and crazy. But all it takes is a lil imagination and plus NO ONE will see this coming. A slow heavy Exteme Heavy Shield Tank VAGA WTF!?! All you have to do is re-think Vaga from a Solo Gank and Run to a Gang Bait and Wait. Who would turn down trying to pop a slow Vaga? (a) first gatecamp and without a MWD you're toast (b) no way of holding anyone down (c) a Hurricane/Cyclone does the job of tanking better, can fit essential PvP gear (in case of Hurricane at least), and is way cheaper anyway. The only concieveable role for this is to be (expensive) bait. It's like saying all-out passive tank Drakes are great PvP ships. Rifters!
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.01 13:57:00 - [48] Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Lol even if the vaga get speed nerfed, the ship itself still needs a nerf. Without any speed mods except a MWD and good nav skills it gets 2.9kps. Can orbit at 20km due to its agility and with 5 x 220mm Vulcans and hobgoblins can get close to 500dps. Whilst having a 10k nice resisted shield regen tank, of which doesnt really have to worry about a great deal at 2.5kps orbit speed. I actually want to fly one now haha! You're a noob. Close to 500 DPS, yes, if you stick at point blank range. 500 DPS on a Vaga is just a EFT number, see? 2.5km/s orbit speed at 17ish km range means that anything using, say, 220s (or even pulses) will hit you preety decently. Rifters!
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.01 18:19:00 - [49] Originally by: UGLYUGLY Edited by: UGLYUGLY on 29/12/2007 18:28:14 Edited by: UGLYUGLY on 29/12/2007 18:26:58 With rumors of a Speed nerf, how would you fit out a Vagabond if your could not use speed mods (except MWD/afterburber). I'm just curiouse to see what people can come up with. This is what I thought up of, (yes it's EFT but I'm on holiday so it's all i can manage at the moment, if anyone can test them on sisi, it would be awesome ) Solo set up http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6786/39187207ua6.jpg Gang set up http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6155/shieldpv4.jpg Imgage, fix. because it breaks forums It's not a Thorax for goodness sake.
Everyone Dies	Posted - 2008.01.02 01:08:00 - [50] Originally by: UGLYUGLY Edited by: UGLYUGLY on 29/12/2007 18:28:14 Edited by: UGLYUGLY on 29/12/2007 18:26:58 With rumors of a Speed nerf, how would you fit out a Vagabond if your could not use speed mods (except MWD/afterburber). I'm just curiouse to see what people can come up with. This is what I thought up of, (yes it's EFT but I'm on holiday so it's all i can manage at the moment, if anyone can test them on sisi, it would be awesome ) Solo set up http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6786/39187207ua6.jpg Gang set up http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6155/shieldpv4.jpg Imgage, fix. because it breaks forums That's not a bad fit. Don't listen to these nano-idiots
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.02 01:22:00 - [51] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Lol even if the vaga get speed nerfed, the ship itself still needs a nerf. Without any speed mods except a MWD and good nav skills it gets 2.9kps. Can orbit at 20km due to its agility and with 5 x 220mm Vulcans and hobgoblins can get close to 500dps. Whilst having a 10k nice resisted shield regen tank, of which doesnt really have to worry about a great deal at 2.5kps orbit speed. I actually want to fly one now haha! You're a noob. Close to 500 DPS, yes, if you stick at point blank range. 500 DPS on a Vaga is just a EFT number, see? 2.5km/s orbit speed at 17ish km range means that anything using, say, 220s (or even pulses) will hit you preety decently. Not just an EFT figure, and leave out the derogatory noob comments please, it doesn't suit you. it can obtain 460 total DPS (close to 500) with barrage and drones with 3 dmg mods. and orbit at 20km range not 17km, why you say 17km is beyond me as with decent gunnery it hits fine upto 26km, so anybody with a clue would orbit out a little further at 20km using 'set-range' thus increasing orbit speed and angular velocity.
VB Sarge The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.02 01:40:00 - [52] Problem here, is too many people have put all of their eggs into one basket of thinking, OMG NANO VAGA = WIN! This will ultimately lead to a crapton of whining and people yelling "if you change my vaga i'm quitting eve forever!" I never have looked at the vaga as a tackler. I've fought against them in 0.0 and low sec, and never saw one as a primary tackle ship. Also another huge point I think people are missing, is the teamwork factor in all of this. If you want a strictly solopwnmobile, you are not going to find it here. Even before any sort of speed nerf, the Vaga was hardly a solopwnmobile. It would have to slow down to do damage, and when it did, was easily engageable. If not, it would be too easy for a target to escape you as you'd have to be outside of web range to fight. When you put teamwork into the equation, I think a support dps shield vaga would be a winner. It's quick enough to move around as it's still cruiser sized, but can put out battlecruiser damage. You just wont be an anti interceptor platform, which you are now. I agree, there is a LOT of fail in the responses, and very little constructive input. Fit 220's (or 425's if you have some implants) and fight at about 16-17k range. Pop drones and other small ships, and you can still move at a very quick pace without speed mods. Anything cruiser sized and smaller, except maybe an interceptor that's zooming around, should melt underneath you. Does this mean it's gonna die off? No, it just means it wont be able to lolpwn battleships, which it shouldn't be able to anyways. Do I want to see speed nerfed? Not especially, because I've done a lot of thinking and math on the subject, and don't see a way to do it that doesn't really hurt everything, including interceptors. Well, unless you make speed mods like command mods, having them take up points for everyone that you put on a ship, and letting interceptors have more base points... not a bad idea actually... but still hurts minmatar as a whole. And you shouldn't be able to get 90+ resistances on everything and still go fast, you need a weakness. Look at the bigger picture, not just how you want things to look as you play. 4x 220mm AC II's 2x HAM's 10mn MWD II 2x LSE II web? 3x Gyrostab II 1x PDU II 1x Overdrive II or DCU I think that set up would make you a very viable option in "hit and run" style warfare. Small gangs of these ships with some other support would be able to nuke a lot of stuff down before it's able to warp off, or add in a recon and an interceptor for some very dangerous combinations. Huginn, Vaga, Stiletto, THAT would be my combo (please note I get the two minmatar cruisers confused, Huginn and Muginn, whichever is the one with the web bonus) Add more Vaga's and you have yourself one hell of a roaming thug squad. Thinking [Box] = win [Thinking Box] = fail www.the-bastards.com
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion	Posted - 2008.01.02 04:25:00 - [53] Quote: I think that set up would make you a very viable option in "hit and run" style warfare. Problem is, HAC are the one supposed to be doing the tackling in small gangs. Interceptor survival rate is typically too low for people to want to use them often lol :P Your setup is basically the speed tanked vagabond without the speed, which means 'vagabond' and no tank. It's always going to be able to speed tank, its what minmatar does. This is like telling a Damnation to shield tank instead of armor. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2008.01.02 04:34:00 - [54] All i can say cant wait till nerf and no i didnt get killed by a vaga or any othr nanoship. Come on you actually feel like men flying that around ?
Rogerano Minmatar Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.01.02 04:37:00 - [55] Yeah. I do. Because it has a sh1te tank compared to other HACs and meh DPS when compared to some HACs. One of the only advantages of the vaga is its engagement flexibility. But if you get caught you're dead. It's all or nothing in vaga and that makes it a tough ship to fly. --- Not happy with something in EVE? An emo whine will doubtless help your cause.
Gort Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 29/12/2007 18:58:14 I know, but most people have knee-jerk reactions and will instantly abandon it. If the speed nerf is across modules, people fail to realize that the current speed ships will still be fast enough (assumin' you can only use 1 overdrive/nano/etc) to orbit out of range. I fly a slow Vagabond (4km/s) in comparison to what the EFT warriors post and it works just fine. A non-nano Vaga will be faster than all the other non-nano HACs and higher regardless; just don't engage missile ships. Armor tanking though means less gyros and more tanks you cant break. I concur in the above thoughts. Gortimis Magnificus -- When in doubt, empty the magazine.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:56:00 - [57] Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 02/01/2008 21:57:10 Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 02/01/2008 21:56:18 iirc, vaga has the third highest damage POTENTIAL (emphasis important) of all HACs the only 2 hacs that have higher are deimos and blaster ishtar. assuming speed is nos nerfed to the point of pointlessness, the vaga: 1. Will still be the fastest hac. control range ftw. 2. outdamage majority of other ships in its class 3. outrange and control range on the 2 hacs it doesnt outdamage while easily avoiding medium drones and up 4. still field a heck of a passive buffer tank, t2 minnie shield resists ftw. 5. capless weapons of variable damage type with superior tracking and fittings ftw people think vaga damage is meh because they fill the lows with ODs then fight beyond 1x falloff while riding the tracking limit. This new paradigm does force you to choose your target, no more engage first and figure out if you can kill target later. There is nothing necessairly wrong with that. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
VB Sarge The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.03 00:06:00 - [58] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=674024&page=1 I just wrote that up after reviewing a few anti speed posts. I think it's pretty well put together, but I'm sure more than one person will stumble on it and try to tear it to shreds with incorrect information that they quote as truth. My interceptor is actually one of the ships that I've had the longest without losing it. Only my first Cane has outlived it, may it rest in peace... er pieces... I've flown my interceptor with an AB vs a Claymore and didn't die, using it as a tackle ship. I've flown against Caracals when I had an AB fitted and didn't die. The Caracal was using assault launchers to boot. Tacklers shouldn't be undefeatable by design. Still, nano'd Vaga's don't scare me, as they are easily countered. Now if the Vaga has friends, I'm screwed. But that arguement goes with any ship you are fighting. If they have more than you, and are comparable ship sizes, there's a good chance you are going down. Vaga's can't hit at 20km and still do damage while going at max speed. They will miss a lot. Probabally about the same amount that I miss them. As soon as they slow down to do some damage, guess what? I'll be pegging them right back. Oh Noes! It can run away if it wants to! Good, I consider my survival in an egagement as a win. And show me how a Vaga can do 400+ DPS while going at max speed at 20+km because I'm going to straight up call you a liar, an EFT warrior, or completely clueless, or, a combination of the three. I'd have a hard time getting a Hurricane to pump out that much damage at that range, and I'm not taking tracking hits due to my own speed adding to the transversal. Shenanigans I call it. Drones are easily disposable, and if the Vaga is out of your web range, the drones wont be, and will instapop, so their dps isn't a factor for very long. In this situation, the drone damage change is a bit of a hit to the play style. Point of the matter is, you can't run the tank on the vaga and do damage at the same time. This makes speed very gimped compared to armor and shield tanks. I don't know of more than 1 missile boat that can effectively speed tank (crow). And I agree with the point above that makes mention of the use of gang members as tacklers. The Vaga would be a pretty good support DPS with a great buffer tank. Solopwnmobile this is not, and I've honestly never considered it one. While a Vaga would irritate me when I'm in a Cane, I wouldn't pee my pants over being engaged by one (until his friends show up) and anything smaller than a BC, well, it IS stronger than you, so you should expect to lose. www.the-bastards.com
Odium47	Posted - 2008.01.03 20:55:00 - [59] If speed nerf will affect Vagabond in such a way that will become useless, it means that everybody will probably fly BS. In this case, I will keep Vaga as a relic. I am sick of people that complain about speed. Speed is not the issue, but rather tracking and signature radius. If 100m/s means a speed of 360 km/h, or 225 miles/h, then 7000m/s equals about 25200 km/h. If you consider the speed of the probe Voyager of nearly 50 000 km/h, you will see that 7000m/s is actually a rather slow speed. But i kind of doubt that there are any Vagas that fly 7000m/s, and if they are, i am sure that won't be able to damage properly or more than an interceptor. To conclude, stop whinning about speed and start asking for better tracking and lower sig resolution.

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