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How to Make 1 Billion + Isk per Day

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Nightfreeze	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:01:00 - [1] Edited by: Nightfreeze on 30/12/2007 06:02:12 Edited by: Nightfreeze on 30/12/2007 06:01:40 The best, fastest, and most effective way to make money in EVE is also one of the simplest. Trading. Now don't get me wrong. Trading does NOT mean space trucking NPC-bought goods across lowsec space for a couple million ISK profit only to be blown up by some pirates who just got home from school. The trading I'm referring to deals in player-built ships and modules, moon minerals, etc etc. It also does not require you to leave the station you are trading out of, assuming you are in a trade hub. Perhaps the best thing about it is that you MAKE MONEY WHILE YOU SLEEP. There's nothing better than waking up and seeing your wallet 200 million ISK fatter than it was than when you laid down to take a nap a few hours ago. I operated primarily out of Jita with an alt in Rens. If I put in the work, I can make over a billion ISK in a single day. If I weren't quitting EVE and decided to get really hardcore about trading and buy 4-5 accounts (one for each hub), I could easily see myself pulling in 2 billion ISK a day. Here's how: For EVERY item in EVE that is actively traded on the market, there is a spread between the buy orders and the sell orders. You can calculate the percentage size of this spread by dividing the price of the lowest realistic sell order by the price of the highest realistic buy order. For example: In this case, I would calculate the spread of the covert ops cloaking device IIs as follows: 10998/10000 = 1.0998 or 9.98%. If I put up a buy order at 10 million, have that buy order filled and put up a sell order at 10.998 million, I would make about a 10% return on the ISK invested. HOWEVER, you have to take broker fees and the sales tax into account. With no skill in broker relations or accounting, this shaves 3% off your profit. With broker relations 5 and accounting 5, you shave 2% off the profit. With great standings, broker relations 5, accounting 5, take 1% off the profit. The difference between 3% and 1% is HUGE when you're dealing with high-volume goods over a long period of time. Thus, on my accounting 5 broker relations 5 character with 0 standings, our 10% profit becomes an 8% profit. With a billion ISK invested in the trade, that's an 80 million ISK profit. Not too shabby. "But Nightfreeze, how can I find good stuff to trade?" Quite easy. Go into the price history screen and look at the table. Make sure it is sorted by date with the latest date is at the top. Multiply the AVERAGE PRICE PER DAY by the AVERAGE VOLUME PER DAY. A good rule of thumb is that if there isn't at least 1 billion ISK going through the item every day, it's not worth seriously trading. Also, make sure there is a sufficient amount of order volume. If there aren't at least 20 orders per day of the item, it might still be worth trading, but it won't be your bread and butter. The funny thing is, you don't even have to know what the item does. I don't know what half the ** I trade does. All you have to know is the spread and the volume. Or if you're lazy, you can look at the following screenshots and trade the stuff on the quickbar. Most of it fits my criteria for trading. A key thing to remember is that the markets are ALWAYS CHANGING, so you always have to watch them. An item with **ty volume and a 4% spread today might have great volume and a 20% spread tomorrow.
Nightfreeze	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:01:00 - [2] Edited by: Nightfreeze on 30/12/2007 06:03:27 Also notice in those screenshots the way my interface is arranged. It is CRUCIAL CRUCIAL CRUCIAL that you use your wallet for order management and the quickbar of the market screen to move between items. This will save you ridiculous amounts of time moving between items and modifying orders. To add an item to the quickbar, right click it on the market screen and click 'add item to quickbar'. Now you can browse to it quickly without having to scroll through numerous laggy windows. My most profitable items are POS fuels (hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, helium isotopes and liquid ozone), covert ops cloaking device IIs, +5 implants, and advanced materials. And my last, most important piece of advice to any trader... STAY ON TOP OF YOUR ORDERS. If you 'go away' for a few weeks, you may come back to a nasty surprise as the item you bought at 200 is now trading at 73 and you've lost billions of ISK. This has happened to me more times than I care to admit. Crucial skills to train include Accounting V, Broker Relations V, Margin Trading V, and the other trade skills such as retail and wholesale that let you increase your number of active orders. There is a lot more to trading than what I've written here, I could probably write 30 pages about it. But these are the basics. If you have any questions, ask them here.
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:05:00 - [3] It's BIG.
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:09:00 - [4] Nice little guide, you might want to change pics to links though before you get forum nerfed. ________
Vodun Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:17:00 - [5] Edited by: Vodun on 30/12/2007 06:18:07 To be perfectly honest, I can't stand carebear crap like this, but keeping with the honesty, you've actually made it sound quite interesting. Making me consider starting up a trading alt just to check it out. Also, nice post; Most of the other market examples I've noticed people write have been overly complex and pretentious. I agree with the above poster though. Smaller pics or links would be better. Cheers ---
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:25:00 - [6] Yeah nice guide, its always good to see people shareing the less common ways of makeing isk with others, and tradeing is something i used to do a fair bit myself. As you say though, the disadvantage is haveing to keep a very close eye on all your orders, or your invested isk will either end up going to waste or being ripped out of your wallet. ps: to all traders who bought those encryption method skillbooks for 160m (that are now 25m) yeah... sorrey that was me, but its all your own fault this is why sometimes if you can't keep on the ball, its better to chalk the sales tax up as a loss and cancle the order - (combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom.
Nova Fox	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:27:00 - [7] please nerf your pictures! link them please.
Militis Kolosok Caldari Praetorian BlackGuard	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:28:00 - [8] Thanks, a new way to look at it for me :) Too bad most of my isk is in items that are on sell orders atm, or I'd give this a go ASAP.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:39:00 - [9] I love the guide, Nightfreeze. I usually don't term people "winners" or "losers" in a game like Eve, but I can't help but think you are a winner. Shame you're quitting Eve, but I'm sure you're making waves in the real world too. Best of wishes, Nightfreeze. --- Join BH-DL Skills
illusha North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:44:00 - [10] If I didn't have to train those carebear skills to lvl 5, then I might try trading. I tried it a while ago when I bought a bulk of quad lif boosters and tried to resell them. I didn't like it because I had to sell a lot in order to get a decent profit.
Militis Kolosok Caldari Praetorian BlackGuard	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:53:00 - [11] I have a question, how much time must be spent on this a day?
TheSystem Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:55:00 - [12] Originally by: Militis Kolosok I have a question, how much time must be spent on this a day? The idea here is that you start investing a lot to being with, and have a huge number of orders running at once. You'll win with some of your orders, whether its buying the item at your price or selling it, but you'll lose with some of your orders. By losing of course I mean coming back to find yourself undercut, or maybe its not a popular item and it takes a while for your orders to be filled. Do lots at once, you'll see the benefit.
Nightfreeze	Posted - 2007.12.30 06:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Militis Kolosok I have a question, how much time must be spent on this a day? The more time that is spent placing and updating your orders, the greater a profit you will make. However, I would greatly prefer having a single hour divided up into 10 minute increments over 2 hour blocks (for a total of 12 hours of coverage) as opposed to having 2 hours of trading in a single period. Those 12 hours of coverage will bring in far greater profit than 2 straight hours of trading could, even though you are only actively trading for 1 hour over those 12 hours.
Militis Kolosok Caldari Praetorian BlackGuard	Posted - 2007.12.30 07:03:00 - [14] Hmm that's what I figured. I put up a couple of orders for multi million trades/day items and not a single unit was sold to me yet. Only have 50 mil to start off with for now :\
Nightfreeze	Posted - 2007.12.30 07:05:00 - [15] Originally by: Militis Kolosok Hmm that's what I figured. I put up a couple of orders for multi million trades/day items and not a single unit was sold to me yet. Only have 50 mil to start off with for now :\ I recommend starting off with at least 500 million. Sell a 90 day timecard if you have to. It will pay itself off many times over in the future.
Makhan	Posted - 2007.12.30 07:06:00 - [16] Can you please do at least one more epic scam or something before you quit?
Los Evilis	Posted - 2007.12.30 07:10:00 - [17] I was thinking of making a research alt but I've heard that with a bit of effort trading can be far more profitable before. What kind of attribute spread would you recommend? Simply stack everything on charisma?
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.30 07:26:00 - [18] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 30/12/2007 07:29:20 A thousand challengers appeared. You just made a lot of tight-lipped traders very unhappy. I for one welcome the competition, but would like to point out this is not for everybody. It requires, as mentioned, a large amount of starting capital to worth your time, as well as the very frequent presence of a character in the region you are trading in. The main problem faced by people who take up trading is that they make an unwise or unlucky investment and lose a lot of ISK, spread your investments between different, and preferably unrelated or inversely related, items and... Don't invest what you can't afford to lose.
Eralus	Posted - 2007.12.30 07:45:00 - [19] This doesn't work very well. It's time intensive, to work at all, and big price swings can more than wipe out your small profits. Maybe you can make 1 bil one day, but you can just as easily lose 2 bil the next. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Nightfreeze	Posted - 2007.12.30 07:48:00 - [20] Originally by: Eralus This doesn't work very well. It's time intensive, to work at all, and big price swings can more than wipe out your small profits. Maybe you can make 1 bil one day, but you can just as easily lose 2 bil the next. This is just what a trader would say to attempt to dissuade people from moving in on his markets. You can't play a player ;) It's almost impossible to lose money while trading as long as the spread is decent enough and there is enough volume. The only times you lose money are when markets are wildly swinging in one direction or another, which generally don't happen unless there's a patch or big change upcoming, and even then it won't happen if you keep on top of your orders.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.12.30 07:50:00 - [21] Edited by: Zeba on 30/12/2007 07:51:17 edit: ^lol Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf You just made a lot of tight-lipped traders very unhappy. Originally by: Eralus This doesn't work very well. It's time intensive, to work at all, and big price swings can more than wipe out your small profits. Maybe you can make 1 bil one day, but you can just as easily lose 2 bil the next. And heres one of them doing a bit of subtle damage control.
Ormen Tuttle Caldari Intergalactic Amalgamated Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.30 07:58:00 - [22] Your plan is great if you start out with billions of isk to invest in the first place. To get to that point I suggest investing in popular ships first. I make a good income from doing so and just passed my first billion mark in cash. Ormen Tuttle http://www.ahnog.us/eve.htm
The Chaz Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:03:00 - [23] Very nice post nightfreeze. I was wondering if you had any expirence in buying low in trading hubs and couring/hauling items to missions hubs for higher profits. Im currently a station trader in Jita, and ive heard that doing this can rake alot of ISK. Ive tryed selling some items in Motsu but the prices are relitivly similar to Jita and it doesnt seem like its worth the extra effort. Thanks THREE FIDDY
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:10:00 - [24] someone once said buy low sell high and i figured all this out myself and i never understood the people who go to sell an item and undercut by more than .01 isk. hey look the market value is 10mil, guess i will sell for 9mil!!!!
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:12:00 - [25] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton someone once said buy low sell high and i figured all this out myself and i never understood the people who go to sell an item and undercut by more than .01 isk. hey look the market value is 10mil, guess i will sell for 9mil!!!! I was wondering how you guys funded your little T2 gatecamping fleet off the meager pickings that come through the Friggi gate.
Nightfreeze	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:13:00 - [26] Originally by: The Chaz Very nice post nightfreeze. I was wondering if you had any expirence in buying low in trading hubs and couring/hauling items to missions hubs for higher profits. Im currently a station trader in Jita, and ive heard that doing this can rake alot of ISK. Ive tryed selling some items in Motsu but the prices are relitivly similar to Jita and it doesnt seem like its worth the extra effort. Thanks Generally no, it's not worth it to haul to a mission hub. HOWEVER, it can be worth it to haul to 0.0 if there is a large enough price differential, if you can ensure that your hauling trip will be safe, and if the overall profit is big enough to justify the time and risk of watching a big ship traverse through gate after gate for 30 + minutes.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton someone once said buy low sell high and i figured all this out myself and i never understood the people who go to sell an item and undercut by more than .01 isk. hey look the market value is 10mil, guess i will sell for 9mil!!!! I was wondering how you guys funded your little T2 gatecamping fleet off the meager pickings that come through the Friggi gate. we have funding now? Who talked?!? ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :)
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton someone once said buy low sell high and i figured all this out myself and i never understood the people who go to sell an item and undercut by more than .01 isk. hey look the market value is 10mil, guess i will sell for 9mil!!!! I was wondering how you guys funded your little T2 gatecamping fleet off the meager pickings that come through the Friggi gate. we have funding now? Well I just assumed from your post that you were a daytime trader and nightime plunderer. So how exactly do you guys make your isk then? Those npc BS in front of the state bank surely can't cover the cost of all those command ships and fittings.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:27:00 - [29] Originally by: Zeba Well I just assumed from your post that you were a daytime trader and nightime plunderer. So how exactly do you guys make your isk then? Those npc BS in front of the state bank surely can't cover the cost of all those command ships and fittings. We have our ways... it has something to do with a salt shaker, an empty box of fries and a ribbon cable for a harddrive. ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :)
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.30 08:27:00 - [30] Originally by: techzer0 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton someone once said buy low sell high and i figured all this out myself and i never understood the people who go to sell an item and undercut by more than .01 isk. hey look the market value is 10mil, guess i will sell for 9mil!!!! I was wondering how you guys funded your little T2 gatecamping fleet off the meager pickings that come through the Friggi gate. we have funding now? Who talked?!? awwwwwww shi- tech found out

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