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Helge Lund
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Posted - 2007.12.30 17:48:00 -
[61]
Befor you quit, i'd just like to say thank you for introducing me to Eve Online! 
A long time ago the great scam story got posted on my old guilds forum, and i was looking for a new MMO at the time. After reading it i tried Eve out and did not regret it 
Thank you! And good luck.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.12.30 18:18:00 -
[62]
if someone couldnt figure this out on their own dont expect them to make any money after reading your - guide -
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.30 19:30:00 -
[63]
Great guide! Now let me explain something to you.
First, I play eve to have fun, not to work. I don't want to get two, three, or four accounts to sit in trading hubs, refreshing markets every 30 seconds to try and beat people's "buy and sell" orders by fracking .01 isk.
On top of that, to be quite honest the return on investment is too small for most people.
This whole for every 1 billion isk invested you see an 80 million isk return tells the whole story. That mainly you've got to have a lot of capital to start trading to see any appreciable returns. Otherwise you have to nickle and dime your way to large amounts of capital through investing small amounts of isk, and refreshing your screen every thirty seconds.
No thanks.
And as someone who has a billion isk in his wallet, I wouldn't hand it over to anyone on the promise of a 80 million isk return. Flatly, no.
I expect from my investments 100% return--at least--especially if I'm dropping 1 billion isk. And before you say, "wishful thinking," your wrong. It is possible to get this type of return over a couple weeks, with a lot less work that 5 accounts in the trade hubs... refreshing the market data every 30 seconds.
-Karlemgne
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Calamity Jali
JellyBeans
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Posted - 2007.12.30 19:48:00 -
[64]
 Originally by: Alski
ps: to all traders who bought those encryption method skillbooks for 160m (that are now 25m) yeah... sorrey that was me, but its all your own fault  this is why sometimes if you can't keep on the ball, its better to chalk the sales tax up as a loss and cancle the order
pity there are so many mean people about... why hide all that gear then release it in bulk.... bad bad pricing.
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flashfreaking
LFC
FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.12.30 20:22:00 -
[65]
Edited by: flashfreaking on 30/12/2007 20:23:05
Nice read, might consider this
Disallowed sig graphic. Send an e-mail to [email protected] when it meets the forum signature guidelines. ~Saint |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.12.30 20:29:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Great guide! Now let me explain something to you.
First, I play eve to have fun, not to work. I don't want to get two, three, or four accounts to sit in trading hubs, refreshing markets every 30 seconds to try and beat people's "buy and sell" orders by fracking .01 isk.
On top of that, to be quite honest the return on investment is too small for most people.
This whole for every 1 billion isk invested you see an 80 million isk return tells the whole story. That mainly you've got to have a lot of capital to start trading to see any appreciable returns. Otherwise you have to nickle and dime your way to large amounts of capital through investing small amounts of isk, and refreshing your screen every thirty seconds.
No thanks.
And as someone who has a billion isk in his wallet, I wouldn't hand it over to anyone on the promise of a 80 million isk return. Flatly, no.
I expect from my investments 100% return--at least--especially if I'm dropping 1 billion isk. And before you say, "wishful thinking," your wrong. It is possible to get this type of return over a couple weeks, with a lot less work that 5 accounts in the trade hubs... refreshing the market data every 30 seconds.
-Karlemgne
stop crying
this kind of return can be done about a few dozen times a day when you trade so in your 3 weeks using 1 billion without the hassle someone else can make much more
and if you think you cant compete unless you update your orders 0.01 isk all day then you really have no idea and need to either try it and test it or stop talking about something you so obviously havent tried for more than a second
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Big Zulu
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.12.30 20:39:00 -
[67]
CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF!?!?!?!?!!!!ONEONE!!ELEVEN!!!???
_________
I has bree.. |
Corporati Capitalis
Tollan Technologies
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Posted - 2007.12.30 21:05:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Karlemgne
I expect from my investments 100% return--at least--especially if I'm dropping 1 billion isk. And before you say, "wishful thinking," your wrong. It is possible to get this type of return over a couple weeks, with a lot less work that 5 accounts in the trade hubs... refreshing the market data every 30 seconds.
So why don't you have more than 1 billion if it's so easy, then? 
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Militis Kolosok
Caldari
Praetorian BlackGuard
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Posted - 2007.12.30 21:28:00 -
[69]
Now is this more profitable in Rens/Oursulaert/Etc or in Jita? Because in Jita everyone updates extremely fast.
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NateX
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.30 22:00:00 -
[70]
can i have some capital to start off with ?
R0ADKILL-killboard | |
Holly Hotdrop
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Posted - 2007.12.31 03:23:00 -
[71]
HMMMZ
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antientity
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Posted - 2007.12.31 08:24:00 -
[72]
This thread is quite general. My trade alts have been trading for 3 years now, in every market through ups and downs. I try to stay away from the constant .01s but thats getting harder. Mostly due to stupid traders who like to directly compete when its not needed, its better to share areas then to try to own it. If i get outbid at all hours of the day i usually end up driving up the market by millions since i'm not going to ever be on top for long. It's spite. But I'm a friend to the people who sell to buy orders since they are all much richer.
I tend to skip out on good deals cause I'm lazy. More often then not it turns out well. I prefer to play safe sometimes. At a certain point with billions unused, faction ships, mods its easier to do nothing. I have spent 8 hours .01ing people that i can only conclude could be farmers editing dozens of orders for hours.
Fun comes in manipulation, making other traders lose Isk. Or driving up the market then crashing it while making money on both sides. Losing money can be fun when you know it cost your competitors 10x. It is amazing how much manipulation happens if you watch closely. Jita is where most the games are played. So i can see how you lose billions if you just edit orders.
I have considered writing guides before, the couple i have written for friends. They always go wow, i never though of any of that stuff. Topics about psychological behavior of purchasers and other traders, fairly endless.
The entire billion isk has to be a catch phrase. You have to be inhuman to .01 that many high volume market orders. There is defiantly some markets where people need to buy in where some of the less intelligent people spent 10s of billions on risky buys based on what happened last time but forgoing the thought process of whats different this time around.
It still takes isk to make isk. But you have to be a certain type of person to deal with trading. There are many other ways or small nitches in every area. Ive seen people make killings everywhere, sometimes to ridiculous to be allowed, and its not exactly trading. Certainly seldom ever talked about and maybe thought about less.
One thing is for sure, its a daily cut throat activity. Or at least a grind. It may not seem like it at first but it gets bad. It can make you avoid the game just cause it turns into work. It all depends on how you play and what you value most.
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Mallikan
Gallente
Spartan Hoplites
Rare Faction
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Posted - 2007.12.31 09:31:00 -
[73]
Currently, this has turned into a great thing to do either between missions, or instead of 0.0 stuff. Why? I don't know, my mind works weird sometimes. Next week I'll probably want to pvp all the time. Or maybe I'll end up uninteresting in EVE for a week again. But right now, this is awesome.
---
lol.. I messed up.
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Lady Beauvoir
Slutty Witches
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Posted - 2007.12.31 10:00:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Lady Beauvoir on 31/12/2007 10:00:28
Originally by: Calamity Jali
Originally by: Alski
ps: to all traders who bought those encryption method skillbooks for 160m (that are now 25m) yeah... sorrey that was me, but its all your own fault this is why sometimes if you can't keep on the ball, its better to chalk the sales tax up as a loss and cancle the order
pity there are so many mean people about... why hide all that gear then release it in bulk.... bad bad pricing.
No, a very good play.
If the prices drop that much and they don't get back up, then there were too many items on the market and the price would have dropped down to that in any case. What he did was to get most ISK out of his items while leaving his competitors in the red and dictated when and how the prices would crash.
Trading is about earning more than others. If everyone is a billionaire, it doesn't really matter if you are, right? The more ISK you have in comparison to others gives you more possibilities to play with the market to earn more.
Just like flying an officer fitted vindicator makes you able to take two battleships head on and winning.
"Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaet point."
-Blaise Pascal, PensTes, 4, 277 |
Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar
Storm Legion
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Posted - 2007.12.31 10:08:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 31/12/2007 10:11:01
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
someone once said buy low sell high and i figured all this out myself 
and i never understood the people who go to sell an item and undercut by more than .01 isk.
hey look the market value is 10mil, guess i will sell for 9mil!!!! 
Lol I do that all the time, usually 500k-1mil cheaper cause I don't want to have to go back to a trade hub a day later to find the price dropped on them and drop my sell price by 2 mil when I could have sold it 1 mil cheaper the day I was there.
Also the only way you could possibly think undercutting by 0.01 isk would actually sell is if you sat in the system monitoring it.. otherwise someone else will undercut by 0.01 again and your item will sit there ad infinitum :p
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Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it. |
Militis Kolosok
Caldari
Praetorian BlackGuard
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Posted - 2007.12.31 17:33:00 -
[76]
I can confirm that the return isn't that great. I spent around 3 hours off and on trading in the last 24 hours and made about 40 mil or so. More than running level 4s, but it's also less fun.
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N1fty
Amarr
Galactic Shipyards Inc
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.12.31 17:57:00 -
[77]
Buy low, sell high. Got it.
--
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Sadayiel
Caldari
Dragon Highlords
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.12.31 18:03:00 -
[78]
I know some ppl that make tons of isk by trading, sometimes due buying in empire selling at 0.0 or it's borders.
one a way i like the post it helps to open eyes about how to make some profit when you have very little time to play actively and you remain docked in a station, if you have enough isk.
in the other hand, maybe someone is selling a lot more of items due a well subtle guide pointing a specific item.
Anyway merry X-mas to all and CCP where is our snowball launchers!!!
--------------------------------------
You know what the chain of command is?
It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here. |
Arianna D
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Posted - 2007.12.31 18:16:00 -
[79]
Are there any apps you use to help you trade?
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Felysta Sandorn
System-Lords
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.12.31 18:22:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Nightfreeze
If I weren't quitting EVE...
Your stuff... May I?
A few bil at least... I'm wanting a few new ships! Cheers...
Latest Video, Click Here!
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Sandor Krejaa
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Posted - 2007.12.31 18:37:00 -
[81]
Short version of the guide...
"Buy low, sell high"
Guaranteed to make the most money with that tactic 
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Ursula LeGuinn
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Posted - 2007.12.31 18:39:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Arianna D
Are there any apps you use to help you trade?
Traders, like magicians, don't like to give away trade "secrets".
If you're a person of at least average intelligence, you can trade successfully in EVE. More competition means lesser profits for existing traders, so while I imagine the hardcore traders use various different Web sites, applets, and what-have-you to aid in their trading, you'll have to find these things on your own.
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phalanxTW
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.12.31 18:57:00 -
[83]
these "how to make fortunes" threads always omit the rather important part about requiring several billions of initial liquid isk
but yea, your stuff  me thx 
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Garion Avarr
Amarr
Zero Zero Traders
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Posted - 2007.12.31 19:37:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Vodun
Edited by: Vodun on 30/12/2007 06:18:07
To be perfectly honest, I can't stand carebear crap like this, but keeping with the honesty, you've actually made it sound quite interesting. Making me consider starting up a trading alt just to check it out.
I'm not sure I'd call traders carebears . . . traders can be every bit as ruthless, if not moreso, as those who shoot others up for fun/ISK. And they probably risk more ISK in their version of PvP. . . .
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 30/12/2007 07:29:20
A thousand challengers appeared.
You just made a lot of tight-lipped traders very unhappy. I for one welcome the competition, but would like to point out this is not for everybody. It requires, as mentioned, a large amount of starting capital to worth your time, as well as the very frequent presence of a character in the region you are trading in. The main problem faced by people who take up trading is that they make an unwise or unlucky investment and lose a lot of ISK, spread your investments between different, and preferably unrelated or inversely related, items and...
Don't invest what you can't afford to lose.
Though, of course, all the new people trying to become traders will present easy targets for those that know what they're doing. . . . *grins evilly*
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.12.31 19:41:00 -
[85]
To this I would add, don't stay in an overcrowded trade, don't stay through a market top, and don't get whipsawed. The 'next big thing' is a disaster waiting to happen as soon as everyone piles into it, new highs are only supported as long as it takes the big players to offload their inventory, and volatility plays are nice when they work, but they have a way of taking everything back later. Unless you trade mostly for the thrill of risk and have time to burn, your time will be spent more effectively making a constant steady return in a secondary hub not saturated with competition. Although I will not deny the lunacy of Jita is fun for arbitrage trades.
EVE CCG Trinity Booster
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Garion Avarr
Amarr
Zero Zero Traders
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Posted - 2007.12.31 19:59:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon
Also the only way you could possibly think undercutting by 0.01 isk would actually sell is if you sat in the system monitoring it.. otherwise someone else will undercut by 0.01 again and your item will sit there ad infinitum :p
You realize, of course, that the same applies to undercutting by any amount? Unless, of course, you undercut so much that you're taking a loss, in which case a sensible person with enough ISK might just buy your items and resell them at a much higher price (done that), you undercut enough so that you're selling below the value of the minerals in the item, in which case a smart person would just buy your items and refine them (done that), or you just undercut by such a huge by still profitable percentage that others are too stunned, stupified, and angery to do anything right away. Which will buy you maybe an extra day before they undercut you by .01 ISK.
So, really, the only way you could think that undercutting by large amounts would be a good idea is, well . . . I really can't see any.
Sorry, a bunch of items I was selling for my corp were undercut by a huge amount today and are now selling for about 60% of what I was selling them yesterday. Which is still three times what is costs to make them, but extremely annoying.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.12.31 20:05:00 -
[87]
The best undercut is when they cut below the price in a different region without realising it and cover your shipping. You can double or triple your money when that happens.
EVE CCG Trinity Booster
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Iria Ahrens
Amarr
101st Space Marine Force
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.31 21:39:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 31/12/2007 21:41:37
My only complaint about this thread is the typical station trader elitism, unjustified I might add. Reading a station trader's description of trading is like reading a brain surgeon's description being a doctor, but only describing the brain surgery part of it.
Station trading, or daytrading is just a subset of trading. And relatively the least important one. Daytraders provide no real service other than maintaining the liquidity of the market, just as real life daytraders do. Otherwise, they are just parasites.
Every form of trading has advantages and disadvantages. Daytrading is no different. Playing the spread in one station is nothing like playing the spread cross regions. Unlike the insinuation made in the OP, it is not necessary to haul in null sec or low sec to make a billion or more a day as a freight trader.
Reading this guide is really just a repeat of any RW daytrading guide, which I've read many. What people who specialize in daytrading, and get all elitist about it, fail to realize is they are not the most profitable form of trading.
Still, making billions a day routinely requires billions of isk in seed money.
To hit some unanswered questions asked in this thread.
Q. "Why would someone undercut by more than .01 isk.
A. Opportunity cost. There is a difference between priced for profit and priced to sell. When someone prices to sell, they are looking at another investment opportunity and the anticipated profits of re-investing that money somewhere else exceeds the anticipated loss of undercutting by .01 Isk. Lower prices are usually more liquid, so the seller posts at a more liquid price.
Q. Is this guy taking credit for someone else's guide.
A. I doubt it. This is pretty standard daytrading strategy. There are plenty of books written about the subject in RL, but it's not that difficult to figure out after doing standard research.
Q. Where do people get the money to do this?
A. Lots of ways. When I first started trading, I ran contracts until I could afford a sigil, then I filling buy orders. If you have low seed money, the opportunity cost of creating sell orders rather than filling buy orders is greater. As you acquire more isk, the opportunity costs flips so issuing buy orders and creating sell orders is more beneficial than filling existing orders. At this point, you might want to start toeing into daytrading. But not before.
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Uchuu
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2007.12.31 22:39:00 -
[89]
Nice thread. Many good things already said about it.
I'll add another important thing. Everything that I have put on the market has sold. There is nothing that never sold in 3 months. I used to play the .01 isk game, then undercut prices by a huge some, wait for fools to .01 me, buy their stuff, and sell at 50% higher value, like others have done in this thread.
I'll add one more thing. It gets really boring and repetitive playing the market game like this all the time. Which made me eventually just leave sell orders at extreme high values and continue doing what I like in this game. It's just not worth my time if I'm not having fun.
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Holly Hotdrop
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Posted - 2008.01.01 00:57:00 -
[90]
oh wow, i thought the OP sounded a bit optimistic or something, but i've made 2bn the last days just by trading minmatar t2 ships. this is incredible, thanks Nightfreeze
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