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Ryder 3vyn State Navy 1	Posted - 2012.02.08 05:56:00 - [1] - Quote The Tengu is obviously in need of a nerf. When you are able to pump two billion ISK into a ship and use it with a five hundred million ISK boosting alt + a scouting alt to make it be able to take on lots of things, that obviously means it is overpowered, alright? Also hoping you guys can see the sarcasm in this post and see that the Tengu is not in need of a nerf. It is only as effective as the other T3s should be... and without all the ISK people dump into them and without the boosting alts it would not be that effective... really.
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 288	Posted - 2012.02.08 06:01:00 - [2] - Quote Ryder 3vyn wrote: The Tengu is obviously in need of a nerf. When you are able to pump two billion ISK into a ship and use it with a five hundred million ISK boosting alt + a scouting alt to make it be able to take on lots of things, that obviously means it is overpowered, alright? This part right here would have been a 7/10... Quote: Also hoping you guys can see the sarcasm in this post and see that the Tengu is not in need of a nerf. It is only as effective as the other T3s should be... and without all the ISK people dump into them and without the boosting alts it would not be that effective... really. ...but this messed it all up. I was looking forward to seeing a flood of tears.
Angsty Teenager Sinister Elite 42	Posted - 2012.02.08 07:30:00 - [3] - Quote The only reason I can see anybody considering the tengu overpowered is if you fit it with a 100mn AB as cheaply as possible and run it with skirmish links. Though I would argue that in this case it is not the tengu that is overpowered, but rather skirmish links. Otherwise it does basically everything else pretty badly on a price/performance basis. Honestly I'm not really that familiar with how effective the tengu fleet comp is in direct comparison to other fleet comps, so maybe it's severely OP there, but I don't really think so. And even in the situation where it is decided that the tengu is OP in fleets (buffer,ab, HM fit I mean), it's ultimately more an issue of the insane damage projection of heavy missiles than the tengu itself (see drakes).
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army Heretic Nation 317	Posted - 2012.02.08 07:38:00 - [4] - Quote Nerf this, buff that! All this whining can get a little old. JUST STFU AND PLAY THE GODDAMN GAME. Or play something else... Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
Mike Whiite Progressive State 11	Posted - 2012.02.08 08:36:00 - [5] - Quote Scissors : "Paper is fine nerf Rock"
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 83	Posted - 2012.02.08 12:05:00 - [6] - Quote I dislike the overpowered resists on those babies... Nerf them plz - Isk alone should not make these ships so difficult to kill... Strategic Cruisers should be good because of the versatility, not their abilities to tank like a commandship, do damage like a battleship while dodging like a cruiser and being unable to counter with anything but a blob.
Dztrgovac 25	Posted - 2012.02.08 12:12:00 - [7] - Quote Go, fit a 3Bn Vindi or Bhall fit or even a bloody Mach or any non missile non oversized AB T3 setup, and get a T3 booster and a scouting alt, any drugs and implants of your choosing, and go try to engage series of 4-7 man gangs and wipe the floor with each one. 100MN ab Tengu (and missile Legion with similar fit) are broken like old nano was broken. Missiles ignore your own speed and so avoid causing problems to your own tracking that gun nano ships have to work with. They can engage and disengage when and who they want; without really committing to fights. Nano age didn't have that much solo pimp ships raping gang after gang, it was mostly nano gangs doing the raping. And extreme availability of T3 booster alts now also gives you ability to tackle people from 50km and laugh at them, being able to disengage whenever you want.
Wyte Ragnarok 6	Posted - 2012.02.08 12:22:00 - [8] - Quote I'd happily welcome a Tengu nerf. But only to see those that flew one whine so hard. It'd be hilarious, it really would.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 2795	Posted - 2012.02.08 12:22:00 - [9] - Quote Jude Lloyd wrote: Nerf this, buff that! All this whining can get a little old. JUST STFU AND PLAY THE GODDAMN GAME. Or play something else... Did you even read the OP? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki
Zeb Rain Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2012.02.08 12:56:00 - [10] - Quote S A N D B O X. So no oversized mods now eh? so thatll be a no to MSBs on frig hulls fx? Tengu not OP, rather situational in fact just made to seem OP by the relative stupidity of some targets.
Rancyin Trans-Solar Works 27	Posted - 2012.02.08 13:07:00 - [11] - Quote Pointless post in a pointless thread. GÖªGÖªGÖªKillboard Banner ServiceGÖªGÖªGÖª
Sprite Can 4	Posted - 2012.02.08 13:09:00 - [12] - Quote Jude Lloyd wrote: Nerf this, buff that! All this whining can get a little old. JUST STFU AND PLAY THE GODDAMN GAME. Or play something else... Successful troll is successful, even though OP admits to being a troll in the OP? -»\(-¦_0)/-» Refreshing Lemon-Lime~
Roime UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 167	Posted - 2012.02.08 13:15:00 - [13] - Quote Sprite Can is cute.
Sprite Can 5	Posted - 2012.02.08 13:54:00 - [14] - Quote Roime wrote: Sprite Can is cute. Refreshing Lemon-Lime~
Derth Ramir Xenuria. 10	Posted - 2012.02.08 15:18:00 - [15] - Quote Jude Lloyd wrote: Nerf this, buff that! All this whining can get a little old. JUST STFU AND PLAY THE GODDAMN GAME. Or play something else... I love you Jude
shal ri Zanzibar Land 8	Posted - 2012.02.08 15:41:00 - [16] - Quote Pinky Denmark wrote: I dislike the overpowered resists on those babies... Nerf them plz - Isk alone should not make these ships so difficult to kill... Strategic Cruisers should be good because of the versatility, not their abilities to tank like a commandship, do damage like a battleship while dodging like a cruiser and being unable to counter with anything but a blob. if u need a blob to kill a tengu then u really suck at pvp and should just give up now. try something easier. like killing rats in a mish or something.
Roosterton Syndicalis Immortalis 315	Posted - 2012.02.08 15:46:00 - [17] - Quote Quote: I dislike the overpowered resists on those babies... Nerf them plz - Isk alone should not make these ships so difficult to kill... Strategic Cruisers should be good because of the versatility, not their abilities to tank like a commandship, do damage like a battleship while dodging like a cruiser and being unable to counter with anything but a blob. Rapier + Neut Dominix = Tengu dead with only ~250mil isk. Sure, you'll probably lose the Rapier, but not before the Domi has gotten into its own web range. Also, aren't the resists the same as t2 ships?
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 84	Posted - 2012.02.08 16:58:00 - [18] - Quote shal ri wrote: if u need a blob to kill a tengu then u really suck at pvp and should just give up now. try something easier. like killing rats in a mish or something. Or the first adrestia ? http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13602210 Seriously the only thing stopping these ships from being widely used is their pricetag... I agree Tengu in itself isn't THAT dangerous and the right tools can disable it, however in empire and lowsec the T3 ships have the ability to fight hugely outnumbered, kill a few enemies and still deagress and jump/dock due to massive resists. Furthermore the smart 100mn Tengu can pull range to about anything with ease (and a bit of situational awareness) making them very frustrating to fight for people who don't have a small fleet ready with a surprise rapier. Granted, they are not all solowtfpwnbbq machines but if you don't have T3 ships yourself or fly with a well prepared group it's rarely a good idea to engage... Luckily ofcourse Eve have major numbers of poorly experienced and ill lesser skilled Tengu pilots flying them because they "heard what they are capable of" but that doesn't mean the T3 ships have any meaningfull disadvantages... Pinky
Noisrevbus 78	Posted - 2012.02.08 22:20:00 - [19] - Quote Pinky Denmark wrote: Strategic Cruisers should be good because of the versatility, not their abilities to tank like a commandship, do damage like a battleship while dodging like a cruiser and being unable to counter with anything but a blob. Which closes a quite entertaining circle, since they're also used as one of the few available counters to blobs on various levels of the game (100mn roaming, sig-buffer-reach fleeting; though the latter seem to have already hit the counter-balance issue of numbers, if you listen to Mittens latest smug on the MB3 show that got referenced by Jester's trek and linked up on these forums). I wonder when people wake up and realize that ship-ship balancing is getting more and more skewered by scale. Kinda like Titans, and all discussion revolving around them - and once again a question of circling semantics ;). As for the internal balance of Tech III... i guess it's pretty common knowledge these days that the Legion and Tengu only have mainstream-appeal in their respective "HAC" setups, while the Proteus and Loki respectively have their mainstream appeal in their "Recon" setups. It's quite balanced, beside the fact that it's statistically more representative flying a general purpose "HAC" than a more role specific "Recon" when Top20 lists and such are compiled. In other uses the Loki is the most prioritized booster, the Tengu seem most proficient at reliable PvE-DPS when exploration fit, the Proteus has the best gank-return (even when cloaky) and the Legion have the most allround applicable side-appeal by dipping into the "Recon" ideal with it's mini-Bhaal mimic. I am probably omitting a bunch of other potential or circular uses, but that's the gist of it. There's really no such thing as untolerable imbalance among the Stratetic Cruisers - mostly just a question of people wanting their Proteus do what the Tengu do well and vice versa, instead of training for a ship that match their personal purpose.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 123	Posted - 2012.02.08 22:57:00 - [20] - Quote Dztrgovac wrote: 100MN ab Tengu (and missile Legion with similar fit) are broken like old nano was broken. Missiles ignore your own speed and so avoid causing problems to your own tracking that gun nano ships have to work with. They can engage and disengage when and who they want; without really committing to fights. Nano age didn't have that much solo pimp ships raping gang after gang, it was mostly nano gangs doing the raping. And extreme availability of T3 booster alts now also gives you ability to tackle people from 50km and laugh at them, being able to disengage whenever you want. Pretty much this. You can't cram in a 100mn ab into HAC or CS and get away with that. The same should apply for tech3. Atm penalties for fitting 100mn ab into tech3 cruisers are just insufficient. 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys.
Fredfredbug4 Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control 38	Posted - 2012.02.08 23:05:00 - [21] - Quote I think measuring how balanced something is shouldn't be based on how easily it can kill other stuff, but how easily other stuff can kill it. From my experience, the 100mn Tengus seem to be the hardest to deal with, if only because by the time a tackler has gotten in range, the Tengu would have either destroyed it or have been able to escape. HOWEVER with the advent of Tier 3 Battlecruisers I did notice that these 100mn guys have been much easier to take on. Why? As the the Tengu tries to outrun the tackler(s), it is decreasing it's transversal velocity from said Sniper fit Tier 3 BC thus making it easier to hit. I think the Tengu is fine and is being used how it's supposed to be, as an extremely expensive specialist ship. The specialty being taking on unprepared people.
Hans Zwaardhandler Borealis Mining Concern IMPERIAL LEGI0N 6	Posted - 2012.02.08 23:51:00 - [22] - Quote After hearing complaints of people accusing CCP of preparing/already having neutered a large amount of Caldari ships... in all seriousness, if that happens, the Tengu is fine as it is. Only people not happy with the Tengu are the people not flying it.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 766	Posted - 2012.02.09 00:32:00 - [23] - Quote Fon Revedhort wrote: Dztrgovac wrote: 100MN ab Tengu (and missile Legion with similar fit) are broken like old nano was broken. Missiles ignore your own speed and so avoid causing problems to your own tracking that gun nano ships have to work with. They can engage and disengage when and who they want; without really committing to fights. Nano age didn't have that much solo pimp ships raping gang after gang, it was mostly nano gangs doing the raping. And extreme availability of T3 booster alts now also gives you ability to tackle people from 50km and laugh at them, being able to disengage whenever you want. Pretty much this. You can't cram in a 100mn ab into HAC or CS and get away with that. The same should apply for tech3. Atm penalties for fitting 100mn ab into tech3 cruisers are just insufficient. Nah, you're doing it wrong. 100mn T3 cruisers are pretty easily catchable and killable... in fact I kinda wish more would roll through Amamake so I can sqoop their delicious lewtz. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Lyrrashae Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition 200	Posted - 2012.02.09 01:06:00 - [24] - Quote EDIT: Oops, responded to fedFredbug's post, not the OP. The OP actually gets a +1. Oh, look, yet another "Nurf Tnegoo bcuz I can't fly/kill it111!!!!" post. Ever flown a 100MN T3? (Yeah, I know...rhetorical question, obviously) They may have the speed of a runaway freight-train, but they also accelerate and turn like one. Use this--and a Rapier or two!--to your advantage. Or better yet, accept that you are bad at EVE, biomass, and send all your ISK and stuffs to me. For ****'s sake... Think of me as the Jester to your King Lear: Because annoying you is more fun than politicking with you. Because your predictable outrage makes you even more fun to play with. Because forum PvP = best PvP. Come to me, little puppet!
Lyrrashae Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition 200	Posted - 2012.02.09 01:19:00 - [25] - Quote Pinky Denmark wrote: I dislike the overpowered resists on those babies... Nerf them plz - Isk alone should not make these ships so difficult to kill... Strategic Cruisers should be good because of the versatility, not their abilities to tank like a commandship, do damage like a battleship while dodging like a cruiser and being unable to counter with anything but a blob. How the Hell is a base EM resist of--wait for it--zero, which needs at least 1 mid slot and/or rig slot to even hope to plug over-powered (Tengu + Caldari shield-tanks in general--yes, the Drake too)? How is a Kinetic hole in the shield--weak to one race's heavily bonussed damage-type, and half+ the damage of hybrids, a main weapon of another race, recently buffed--overpowered (Minmatar shield-tank)? How is two race's weakest resists--Explosive--on two races worth of tanks that needs slots given over to filling it overpowered (Gallente and Minmatar armour-tanks, secondary weakness of Caldari and Minmatar shield-tanks) How is yet a fourth race's weakness to the general "do-it-all" damage type overpowered when one can switch to other damage types, plus that race is extremely vulnerable to neut'ing? (Amarr armour-tanks)? The point: Every strength in a single ship has a corresponding weakness, and outside of own-ship/own-class balance, there exist many, many counters to those strengths. Stop whinging and try playing the game, first. Think of me as the Jester to your King Lear: Because annoying you is more fun than politicking with you. Because your predictable outrage makes you even more fun to play with. Because forum PvP = best PvP. Come to me, little puppet!
Mfume Apocal Origin. Black Legion. 289	Posted - 2012.02.09 01:30:00 - [26] - Quote Pinky Denmark wrote: I dislike the overpowered resists on those babies... They get the same resists as their T2 counterparts, unless you use resist bonus subs... ...which 100MN Tengus don't.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War DarkSide. 123	Posted - 2012.02.09 02:04:00 - [27] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Nah, you're doing it wrong. 100mn T3 cruisers are pretty easily catchable and killable... in fact I kinda wish more would roll through Amamake so I can sqoop their delicious lewtz. -g You clearly don't know who I am, do you? Drakes are easily catchable and killable, too. It doesn't make 'em balanced. 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys.
Lyrrashae Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition 203	Posted - 2012.02.09 04:42:00 - [28] - Quote Fon Revedhort wrote: Liang Nuren wrote: Nah, you're doing it wrong. 100mn T3 cruisers are pretty easily catchable and killable... in fact I kinda wish more would roll through Amamake so I can sqoop their delicious lewtz. -g You clearly don't know who I am, do you? Drakes are easily catchable and killable, too. It doesn't make 'em balanced. Actually, yes, it does. As well: I can't speak for Liang, but I for one, couldn't care less, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Next! Think of me as the Jester to your King Lear: Because annoying you is more fun than politicking with you. Because your predictable outrage makes you even more fun to play with. Because forum PvP = best PvP. Come to me, little puppet!
Heun zero Aegis Evolution Soldiers 0f Fortune 32	Posted - 2012.02.09 10:08:00 - [29] - Quote Rancyin wrote: Pointless post in a pointless thread. there is a paradox in your post
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 85	Posted - 2012.02.09 10:38:00 - [30] - Quote Why do I think the T3 ships needs a little adjustment? Because despite costing a fortune people still swear to them because they rarely lose them... They cost a lot but if you are smart they are pretty much "SAFE" to fly. In 0.0 Tengu and Loki are super popular for a reason. You can catch them if you have the right tools ready but dammit it's not easy for most of the people running into them at it still requires some luck. Stating it's fine because tier 3 battlecruisers can kill them is wrong because those ships have some retardedly overpowered stats themself. In Empire and lowsec The Legion and Proteus seems popular for pvp. Capable of nice dps/tank setups pilots are able to pick their fights and have such an evil tank/buffer they can usually kill someone and still disengage and dock/jump before exploding if they get caught in a bad situation. And if you get some Fleet boster and/or logi going it takes a lot of firepower to fight against T3 ships. There is a reason why people don't even bother fighting back against wardecs in empire - a few strategic cruisers with backup requires a disproportionate amount of people if you don't want to use them yourself. Rather pointless and discouraging for the new people of Eve. At least remove some powergrid from those ships to avoid the 100mn fits, dual plates etc... Yes it would ruin something many guys like but those people got other options and you can do amazing things even without 100mn AB and dual plating.

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