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Wyte Ragnarok
13
   |
Posted - 2012.02.09 11:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:
You clearly don't know who I am, do you?!111!!!one!!
As well: I can't speak for Liang, but I for one, couldn't care less, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Posting to confirm we don't care about your name. |
Craterius
Symple Onez
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 22:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
My first reaction was that it was great that a pilot with max relevant skills, and skilled at PvP, and willing to shell out 2-3 billion isk, should be able to field a ship that could take on the average small gang - with their (one) tackler, max dps ships, and lol throwaway Blackbird, or the like.
However, take a look at these statistics for one Tengu pilot, who posted a 48 minute video of his exploits on youtube, "xBOPOHx1":
This is a pilot about 41/2 years old, so about 55 milion SP or so. He probably has maxed relevant skills.
Until Tengu came out, he had a slightly above average killboard.
However, since then, look at this:
kills losses
Nov 2011 160 1
Dec 2011 149 0
Jan 2012 251 4
Feb 2012 78 1
His current efficiency: 99.95%
Chance of enemy survival: 1.27%
Most of these kills were with Tengus, although about 10% of them were in other ships.
These statistics make me a bit uneasy about my first reaction. Not all these small gangs were unprepared, below average, or lol fitted.
I'm sorry, but no pilot in EvE should have a 99.95% efficiency because of the neat ship he is flying.
|
Robertson Nolen
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 23:16:00 -
[33] - Quote
5/10 docked 5 because you actually needed to tell us you were trolling. It was quite obvious. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
775
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 23:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:
Nah, you're doing it wrong. 100mn T3 cruisers are pretty easily catchable and killable... in fact I kinda wish more would roll through Amamake so I can sqoop their delicious lewtz.
-g
You clearly don't know who I am, do you? Drakes are easily catchable and killable, too. It doesn't make 'em balanced.
I actually DO know exactly who you are. :)
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
775
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 23:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
Craterius wrote:My first reaction was that it was great that a pilot with max relevant skills, and skilled at PvP, and willing to shell out 2-3 billion isk, should be able to field a ship that could take on the average small gang - with their (one) tackler, max dps ships, and lol throwaway Blackbird, or the like.
However, take a look at these statistics for one Tengu pilot, who posted a 48 minute video of his exploits on youtube, "xBOPOHx1":
This is a pilot about 41/2 years old, so about 55 milion SP or so. He probably has maxed relevant skills.
Until Tengu came out, he had a slightly above average killboard.
However, since then, look at this:
kills losses
Nov 2011 160 1
Dec 2011 149 0
Jan 2012 251 4
Feb 2012 78 1
His current efficiency: 99.95%
Chance of enemy survival: 1.27%
Most of these kills were with Tengus, although about 10% of them were in other ships.
These statistics make me a bit uneasy about my first reaction. Not all these small gangs were unprepared, below average, or lol fitted.
I'm sorry, but no pilot in EvE should have a 99.95% efficiency because of the neat ship he is flying.
Yeah, he drops great loot. Wish he'd come back to Amamake and visit me again. :)
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Noisrevbus
78
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 23:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
Craterius wrote:
However, take a look at these statistics for one Tengu pilot, who posted a 48 minute video of his exploits on youtube, "xBOPOHx1":
This is a pilot about 41/2 years old, so about 55 milion SP or so. He probably has maxed relevant skills.
Until Tengu came out, he had a slightly above average killboard.
However, since then, look at this:
These statistics make me a bit uneasy about my first reaction. Not all these small gangs were unprepared, below average, or lol fitted.
Would this have been an issue if the Tengu was released in Nov 2011? Probably not, as statistics is nothing more but statistics. For the vast majority of time the Tengu has been around Bopoh have not had awesome stats. Considering Fon and Prom pioneered the 100mn AB stuff in the summer of 2010, you can't really attribute that trend to his statistics either. I have no idea when the pilot in question began flying Tengus or why his activity and performance has peaked over the past few months, but nore do you. Selective statistics and all that - it's a fabrication of data to support your argument, not the other way around, an argument based on the data.
What we do know, is the important bit here...
... that 100mn AB setups (not the simpleton conclusion that it's "Tengus") are very strong for roaming PvP. Whoever referred to them as "the new nano" did a much better summary of this discussion than what was intended, i imagine. That is also the crunchpoint here that is interesting to discuss, and where i am likely to be of a different oppinion than say, for example, Fon.
See, i was a supporter of the old nano nerf and alot of positive outcomes can still be traced back to those changes (more fluency in engagement ranges and a better rock-paper-scissor that has manifested itself quite well on the small-medium scale). Unlike most of you however, i remember the discussion back then, and that i among alot of other people conceeded the nano nerf positive on the backdrop that a counter-balancing of numbers was necessary and iterated upon over the foreseeable future. It never was.
That's also why i have changed my stance a bit over the past few years, from an idealistic one to a more realistic one, regarding the balance of ships. I don't own a Titan or Mothership myself, nore do i currently own a Tengu (though i fly all races Tech III), but for whatever issues some resource-heavy concepts may have, they act as a balancing factor (some of the diminishing few) against the number-game that usurps all potential balance obtained after the nano nerf.
Have we had a better balance among ships? sure, but small-gang roaming and corporate-level action has taken a much greater toll and the game has become worse. That also means, that if these cards are kept being dealt, i regret supporting the positive sides of the nano nerf. The existance of emergent roaming action is far more important than my ability to counter Drakes with Gallente - if numbers become the deciding factor and no one will fly Gallente anyway.
I see the same problems with this discussion tbh., and whatever re-balance is argued necessary should be understood against the backdrop of the current content context.
Rather one guy in an expensive Tengu than one hundred guys in inexpensive Hurricanes.
I wonder if this forum is capable enough to handle this side of the discussion - will anyone bite, and do so in an informed manner? |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
801
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 00:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Pinky Denmark wrote:I dislike the overpowered resists on those babies... They get the same resists as their T2 counterparts, unless you use resist bonus subs... ...which 100MN Tengus don't.
What this sir said and what most of you guys don't even try to admit.
You can't catch the nullified/cloacky Tengu?
Ho wait guys you can't neither catch the Proteus/Loki/Legion Cloaky/nullified ones. Dammit !
Resists:
Stop doing melting pots of everything and give perfect examples because those who fly 'it like me can tell you guys "blahblah" about tengus, it's the weakest of them all if you ever use a single neuron to figure out his weak point. So hard indeed.
Buffer? -Hell he's far from those 450K slaved Proteus and about 1B with all bonus/bossts (included double titan etc), hell do you see that much those in pvp?
yes some crazy guys like raiden use them most probably for fun factor and maybe because of the EHP for an heavy tackle but you cant push max ehp and dps+ top tackle at the same time, you need to sacrifice something just like Tengus.
I don't know that much Legions but I do know Lokis adn also what Loki+Claymore bonus does to my faction point in my Lachesis "I pin you from there". Lokis are everywhere in null sec, probably the best of them all for nullsec in whatever field they fit for.
Lets get back to that poor Tengu extracting that much tears from cry babies:
You get either strong resists with a stupid bonus for shield remote repair -awesome right?- and different high slot layout (focused utility instead of dps) OR 10% SHIELD EHP per level (and not both like you guys just blahblah all the time)
Plus, the regular Tengu is T2 fitted with probably 1 or 2 faction mods (web/disruptor for range) and it's absolutely not the loot pinata at 2.4B some guys for whatever reason had the guts to use to kill noobs/nerds not knowing what to do with their hulls (we even see a carrier gtfo in that vid...seriously?)
So Tengu's versatility makes a lot of guys cry because he is the king of the hill of pve after: nightmares, machariels, vindicators, vargurs...
And: because you can pvp in that Tengu making a lot of DPS/tank sacrifices just to be able to perma run some faction 100MN AB
Wau ! -you guys never crossed any armor tanked double bonused web Loki did you? -because those crying about Tengu in pvp would feel ridiculous after that.
Move on, adapt or die. |
Jesus Rambo
Massive PVPness
EntroPraetorian Aegis
42
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 03:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
I don't think the tengu is overpowered, I just think the other T3s need a little bit of buff.
I'd like to see the Loki be able to push a bit more DPS. Not sure what the other two really need, maybe a little more active tank on the proteus and less buffer. |
Adelas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 00:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Why is it that whenever something is seen as capable or OP it needs a nerf ? - not everything needs to be the same. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
789
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 01:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jesus Rambo wrote:I don't think the tengu is overpowered, I just think the other T3s need a little bit of buff.
I'd like to see the Loki be able to push a bit more DPS. Not sure what the other two really need, maybe a little more active tank on the proteus and less buffer.
I wouldn't object to a stronger active tank on the Proteus, but it needs a bigger cargo bay in that configuration.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
49
|
Posted - 2012.02.15 01:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Adelas wrote:Why is it that whenever something is seen as capable or OP it needs a nerf ? - not everything needs to be the same.
caldari can't have nice things...
Seen well skilled loki pilots do some horrible things to people. granted its not the ease of tengu for fit or flying.....but well thats on the players most times. they wanted to fly a gun happy race because it wasn't eve on easy mode. Or as the players from at least 2 years ago know you were told to avoid caldari for pvp since their more used nickname was faildari. People weren't whining about this ship 2 years ago (it was way more likely to see a legion or loki out hunting, the tengu's were running pve more lol), And nothing has changed on it since then. Not sure why the tears now. |
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 19:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
I think the skill of a pilot shines through when they come on spouting about the tengu being so "over powered." You ever stuck a neut or a web on a tengu? they go down like a rock. I really like this ship, and it has advantages over the other t3's of course, but then those t3's each have advantages over the tengu as well.
Please CCP, don't listen to these cry babies and nurf this ship. We use a full array of t3 ships in our fleets and they all have purposes and roles to play. This ship does not need to be screwed with. |
Toda Takauji
Posthuman Society
Enclave.
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 23:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
Craterius wrote:My first reaction was that it was great that a pilot with max relevant skills, and skilled at PvP, and willing to shell out 2-3 billion isk, should be able to field a ship that could take on the average small gang - with their (one) tackler, max dps ships, and lol throwaway Blackbird, or the like.
However, take a look at these statistics for one Tengu pilot, who posted a 48 minute video of his exploits on youtube, "xBOPOHx1":
This is a pilot about 41/2 years old, so about 55 milion SP or so. He probably has maxed relevant skills.
Until Tengu came out, he had a slightly above average killboard.
However, since then, look at this:
kills losses
Nov 2011 160 1
Dec 2011 149 0
Jan 2012 251 4
Feb 2012 78 1
His current efficiency: 99.95%
Chance of enemy survival: 1.27%
Most of these kills were with Tengus, although about 10% of them were in other ships.
These statistics make me a bit uneasy about my first reaction. Not all these small gangs were unprepared, below average, or lol fitted.
I'm sorry, but no pilot in EvE should have a 99.95% efficiency because of the neat ship he is flying.
I'm trying not to judge your level of reasoning by your comment but it's inevitable. Why should no one reap the fruits of their labor? It's like saying R n K shouldn't win most of their fights because they are significantly better at planning and implementing pvp strategies.
|
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 03:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
Removed |
Crellion
Parental Control
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 06:29:00 -
[45] - Quote
You could up the raw dps of a Loki and the covert dps of a Proteus (and let Legions do ncos) and have the same effect tbh.
On the other hand ... don't want to make the whole T3 series OP, so yeah, sad as it may be... I concur with nerf the Tengu  |
Derkata
14
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:18:00 -
[46] - Quote
Adelas wrote:Why is it that whenever something is seen as capable or OP it needs a nerf ? - not everything needs to be the same.
Because it is easier to nerf 1 than buff 3 to get them back on par with each other. And it also helps avoid power creep. |
Fi1ippo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 04:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
I want to nerf everything i cant kill, because i should be able to kill it because its unfair and because i should be the best and because i shouldnt have to lose at anything in this game i mean its a game and i should be great and awesome and tengus ruin that awesomeness and they should be nerfed so i can shoot one down and FISTPUMP after i do so because of how awesome i am but without tengu nerfs this wont happen so nerf it it needs it its op
fin |
Crellion
Parental Control
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 06:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
Fi1ippo wrote:I want to nerf everything i cant kill, because i should be able to kill it because its unfair and because i should be the best and because i shouldnt have to lose at anything in this game i mean its a game and i should be great and awesome and tengus ruin that awesomeness and they should be nerfed so i can shoot one down and FISTPUMP after i do so because of how awesome i am but without tengu nerfs this wont happen so nerf it it needs it its op
fin
I can see what you are trying to do here but being a tad overzealous reveals a pinch of desperation which communicates the exact opposite sentiment from the air of smug superiority you were aiming for. Perchance try again? |
Fi1ippo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 10:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
Crellion wrote:Fi1ippo wrote:I want to nerf everything i cant kill, because i should be able to kill it because its unfair and because i should be the best and because i shouldnt have to lose at anything in this game i mean its a game and i should be great and awesome and tengus ruin that awesomeness and they should be nerfed so i can shoot one down and FISTPUMP after i do so because of how awesome i am but without tengu nerfs this wont happen so nerf it it needs it its op
fin I can see what you are trying to do here but being a tad overzealous reveals a pinch of desperation which communicates the exact opposite sentiment from the air of smug superiority you were aiming for. Perchance try again?
Im flying one, so no need |
Crellion
Parental Control
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 10:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
Fi1ippo wrote:Crellion wrote:Fi1ippo wrote:I want to nerf everything i cant kill, because i should be able to kill it because its unfair and because i should be the best and because i shouldnt have to lose at anything in this game i mean its a game and i should be great and awesome and tengus ruin that awesomeness and they should be nerfed so i can shoot one down and FISTPUMP after i do so because of how awesome i am but without tengu nerfs this wont happen so nerf it it needs it its op
fin I can see what you are trying to do here but being a tad overzealous reveals a pinch of desperation which communicates the exact opposite sentiment from the air of smug superiority you were aiming for. Perchance try again? Im flying one, so no need
I assumed you did. I do too. And?
|
Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon
CELESTIAL ORDER RISING PHEONIX
59
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 11:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
remove over sized prop mods. Problem solved. |
nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 12:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:remove over sized prop mods. Problem solved.
don't make over sized prop mods the only problem. this ship is too versatile.
dps difference between missiles and say blasters is just ridiculous when you'll look at range that they both can shoot |
Scrindle Kavees
Fuzzy Wuzzy Pink and Cudley Unicorn Brigade
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 14:53:00 -
[53] - Quote
Nerf me because I'm so ******* awesome. |
nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 15:20:00 -
[54] - Quote
Scrindle Kavees wrote:Nerf me because I'm so ******* awesome.
or :
"Y U WANT TO NERF MY OP SHIP"
|
Aestivalis Saidrian
SplitPush Mercantiles
Warden.
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 15:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
Or:
Buff the Legion, Proteus, and Loki.  |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
42
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 15:25:00 -
[56] - Quote
Craterius wrote:
This is a pilot about 41/2 years old, so about 55 milion SP or so. He probably has maxed relevant skills.
So little SP would be a epically failed training... |
nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 15:54:00 -
[57] - Quote
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:Or: Buff the Legion, Proteus, and Loki.
i don't really think that cruisers should do more damage than battleships |
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