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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.02 07:38:00 - [121] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 02/01/2008 06:29:36 CCP still thinks that Login Traps are not exploits - but this is cheating? you are right sir ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :)
fasfhadtrv	Posted - 2008.01.02 07:39:00 - [122] Originally by: Wyliee we war decked a corp to do this we took a vote, 24hours wait then we decked them, 24 hours wait ok then good to go. they then joined imune empire aliance, then imediately left, 24 hours later we are left not being able to shoot them without redecking them again. i consider this cheating, and using a loophole that ccp should address. Immune alliance isn't going to be around long... mark my words It isn't a loophole you idiot. Join an anti immune alliance pirate alliance.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.02 08:04:00 - [123] Originally by: Ashley Sky I have petitioned to see if we can get a proper resolution to this matter. The proper resolution is, in this case, don't do it. Don't look like you're doing it. It came down from the top, FFS. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.02 08:33:00 - [124] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 02/01/2008 06:29:36 CCP still thinks that Login Traps are not exploits - but this is cheating? Tbh anyone that thinks login traps are not exploit of game mechanics is an idiot. It totally voids the local-system where you can always see how many people are in a system. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Tek'a Rain Gallente Collegium Mechanicae	Posted - 2008.01.02 08:55:00 - [125] Originally by: Aramova War Dec Empire Corp Empire Corp who can't match you joins alliance Whine on Eve-O forums ???? Profit!
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.02 09:02:00 - [126] Originally by: GM Nova This is cheating, plain and simple. CEOs exploiting this loophole will receive a warning from now on. GM Nova Senior Game Master EVE Online Customer Support I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the "loophole" is the part about prematurely ending a war, and that quickly joining and leaving an alliance is in and of itself not the loophole. --- Join BH-DL Skills
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.02 10:13:00 - [127] Originally by: Ashley Sky [They went and changed the rules on us with a very ambiguous response to a forum, rather than doing appropriate customer service. Ambiguous? There was nothing ambiguous about it. Tbh, I'm pretty angry with CCP's inconsistency that's why I partly sympathise with you. HOWEVER, you're lucky I'm not a GM or dev cause you'd have gotten a pretty strict warning. People like you, abusing obvious loopholes (yeah yeah I know, it's not an exploit until CCP says so), add nothing to the future of this game as you'll immediately jump to the very next bug you think will be exploitable but not -yet- an offence. CCP is far too lenient.
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.02 10:18:00 - [128] Personally i would think a senior GMs word > member of bug hunting teasm(eg seeing if code's broken, doesn't really concern themselves with exploits).
General Coochie The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.02 10:56:00 - [129] I'm sorry for ya imune. Anyone could see it coming even though game mechanics allow it. Oh well. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Yuki Itakura	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:03:00 - [130] Edited by: Yuki Itakura on 02/01/2008 11:07:00 So X war decs Y. Y joins alliance. Y leaves alliance to avoid war with X. Hmmm... Industry corp joins Merc alliance for protection, providing Merc corp ships and weapons to do so at reasonable rates. Merc corp joins Industrial alliance to be protection, or for supply of ships and/or modules to further their actions. "We can't fight this war, can you take it for us?" Something goverments and corporations have been doing for a long time. I do think it's a bit lame that a corporation would join iMune, and then leave right after to avoid it. I mean if it's a mining corp looking for protection, then they should be providing iMune with the means to fight the war. Maybe I missed it somewhere, but can't X corp declare war on Y, then X join an alliance, X leaves alliance dropping thier war with Y? Then Y would be stuck in a war with an alliance? Then Y could join an alliance then leave, leaving the original war dec with that alliance? Now we are back at the start. X war dec's Y, Y joins alliance....... I thought the basics were this. 0.0 = It's on. Big corporations and Alliance turf wars. Destroy them, they destroy you. Along with great resources and other faction stuff. Don't like it leave. 0.1 - 0.4 = Grey area. Minimum rules, kill people, lose standings, don't fly with what you can't afford to lose, or take protection. 0.5 -1.0 = "Relatively safe". Industrial corps trying to make a mark, police protection, pirates, gate camps, suicide runs, new pilots trying to figure things out. The bounderies of what happens in each basic sector is elastic at best. If you look at the big picture Eve is by far one the best thought out games ever. Different races, factions, corporations, can pretty much do what you want here. Eve is HUGE. I don't think what iMune is doing is "cheating", but I'm not condoning it either. I think what they are doing by not making any money from it is pretty stupid, and over all being a bunch of pansies. Like I said I don't think it's cheating, maybe swindled or cheated out of what you wanted. The real world isn't perfect, neither is Eve, thats what makes it great. People, corporations, goverments, even animals "exploit" or "cheat" everyday for survival. Can anyone really say they have never cheated, lied or exploited to their own advantage? Probably not. With 37k pilots (did I see 39k today) Eve is not getting any smaller. A far cry from the few thousand I used to see on a Saturday night, when I bought the game off the shelf when it first came out. X war decs Y. Neither X nor Y can join alliance. That's boring. So if you are the small corp and huge corp wants to crush you, and you know that you have no chance in beating them, what would you do? Would you still be calling cheating if they had joined an alliance and stayed there and that alliance could crush you back into NPC corp land? The fix should be a set time the corp has to be in alliance anyway. Or if the corp joins bringing thier war into the alliance, then decides to leave (withing a set period), money from that corporation should go to the corporation that started it, declaring it a financial victory and the pansie corp takes the loss, financially and on thier record. The post by the GM saying it's cheating, and the bughunter saying it's not. Isn't CCP a rather small in the terms of corporate numbers? It seems that the checks and balances part isn't working. If a bughunter answered the petition wouldn't he have a guidline of the game rules, and the GM with the same guideline? Makes you wonder doesn't it? All in the spirit of Eve. Posted with an alt, for security reasons. Sorry about your loss. If they don't want to be war declared, they should go back under a rock and stay crushed. But if they took all the politics out of it, then we would basically be playing deathmatch.
Wynona Mesopotamia iMune Empire	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:23:00 - [131] Yeah, we pre-petitioned this, the answer they gave us was "not an exploit". In fact they gave the same answer to a corp who's war we took, they petitioned it right up to the top and got the same answer. Trust me, we did our homework before launching this project. Throwing out the 'cheat' card seems a hasty after we've been a virtual *sticky for almost 2 weeks. I'll be open minded and assume GM Nova just walked in the door from a long holiday. Click here for Free War Removal Service
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:25:00 - [132] Actually, I find it rather funny that there's a game mechanic available for noob corps to stave off wars from corps that are more powerful... If some noob corp CEO came in here to complain about a strong corp arbitrarily declaring war on them, he'd be covered in forum molotov*****tails within 10 minutes.
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:27:00 - [133] Originally by: Wynona Yeah, we pre-petitioned this, the answer they gave us was "not an exploit". In fact they gave the same answer to a corp who's war we took, they petitioned it right up to the top and got the same answer. Trust me, we did our homework before launching this project. Throwing out the 'cheat' card seems a hasty after we've been a virtual *sticky for almost 2 weeks. I'll be open minded and assume GM Nova just walked in the door from a long holiday. You bug reported it, so you got a response from their Bug Hunters, or at leasts that's what Ashely Sky posted earlier looked like.
Kay Han Caldari FroZen SoulS	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:28:00 - [134] Edited by: Kay Han on 02/01/2008 11:28:19 didn¦t experience that myself so far. But from the understanding, i totally agree that this is somekind of exploit, even if it¦s within the game mechanics. so a one week waiting period until the alliance can be left again sounds pretty resonable to me. Everything else is just fubar... Originally by: CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:28:00 - [135] Originally by: Windjammer Originally by: GM Nova This is cheating, plain and simple. CEOs exploiting this loophole will receive a warning from now on. GM Nova Senior Game Master EVE Online Customer Support A great pity that ganking ships in Jita and other high sec places is not afforded the same attention. However, I think everyone was expecting a comment of this sort from a GM or other CCP representative. High Sec ganking is explicitly allowed. read this: http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=341 CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ziw Pineapple Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:30:00 - [136] Well i think it is fair that "noob" - corps don't need to fight "pro" - corps.. Many use the corp feature to have a nice time, chat with friends. Relax and do missions together.. It's only fair if they don't need to fight "gank"-hungry "elites".
Tsia Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:31:00 - [137] Whiners, GET OVER IT. 'nuff said.
Wynona Mesopotamia iMune Empire	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:32:00 - [138] Originally by: Jakus Cemendur You bug reported it, so you got a response from their Bug Hunters, or at leasts that's what Ashely Sky posted earlier looked like. Trust me, it was pre-petitioned. Using the in-game petition system under the heading of Exploit. There is no misdirection here, in fact quite the opposite. and.... It was bug reported after that, just to be sure. Click here for Free War Removal Service
Kay Han Caldari FroZen SoulS	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:34:00 - [139] Originally by: Ziw Pineapple Well i think it is fair that "noob" - corps don't need to fight "pro" - corps.. Many use the corp feature to have a nice time, chat with friends. Relax and do missions together.. It's only fair if they don't need to fight "gank"-hungry "elites". dude. This isn¦t wow or some other **ty game. The PvP part of eve makes eve an awesome game, even if it sucks from time to time. You want to Fly missions in Peace, without beeing harmed? > Stay in a NPC corp Once you join a Player driven corp, you need to live with the wars and stuff. having said this, hf a nice day and go back Playing WoW Originally by:** CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:48:00 - [140] All the "exlpoit yellers" should have a nice cup of STFU. There is no exploit, just perfectly legal useage of ingame mechanics. That the mechanics in question are flawed is another story. It's kind of like saying that claiming your bounty with an alt is an exploit.
Wyliee Taurus Inc	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:50:00 - [141] to get a real sense of whats going on here. taurus war dec'ed a corp. the decked corp joined imune, imune didnt even have contact with them prior to joining, thier policy is to accept any applications they get, and imediately boot the corp out of the aliance, hence taking over the war. we went after imune core members, and we killed battle cruiser and some other stuff within 30mins of the war being transfered. trouble is they have 16 members of thier own. Most corps in thier aliance are 1 memeber corps, and they run around if inty's knowing they are hopelessly out classed (i mean no offence to imune). its not like they want to fight wars for other people, they cant even begin to do that, they just wish to abuse a game mechanic (maybe to highlight it who knows). here is thier offical page http://ephemeral.dreamhosters.com/wiki/doku.php if war targets were to run and join an alliance, then stay in the allianace so they can seek shelter, i think that is fair enough - but that clearly isnt happening here.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:54:00 - [142] Originally by: Drasked All the "exlpoit yellers" should have a nice cup of STFU. There is no exploit, just perfectly legal useage of ingame mechanics. That the mechanics in question are flawed is another story. It's kind of like saying that claiming your bounty with an alt is an exploit. Except a GM just said it was cheating.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:54:00 - [143] Originally by: Wyliee to get a real sense of whats going on here. taurus war dec'ed a corp. the decked corp joined imune, imune didnt even have contact with them prior to joining, thier policy is to accept any applications they get, and imediately boot the corp out of the aliance, hence taking over the war. we went after imune core members, and we killed battle cruiser and some other stuff within 30mins of the war being transfered. trouble is they have 16 members of thier own. Most corps in thier aliance are 1 memeber corps, and they run around if inty's knowing they are hopelessly out classed (i mean no offence to imune). its not like they want to fight wars for other people, they cant even begin to do that, they just wish to abuse a game mechanic (maybe to highlight it who knows). here is thier offical page http://ephemeral.dreamhosters.com/wiki/doku.php if war targets were to run and join an alliance, then stay in the allianace so they can seek shelter, i think that is fair enough - but that clearly isnt happening here. Saying that imune is doing this for the sole purpose of abusing game mechanics is kind of petarded, don't you agree?
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.02 11:56:00 - [144] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Drasked All the "exlpoit yellers" should have a nice cup of STFU. There is no exploit, just perfectly legal useage of ingame mechanics. That the mechanics in question are flawed is another story. It's kind of like saying that claiming your bounty with an alt is an exploit. Except a GM just said it was cheating. You mean in the same way as calling a random customer support 3 times will give you 3 totally diffrent answers? A senior GM classed this as legal use of game mechanics.
Orravan	Posted - 2008.01.02 12:00:00 - [145] Originally by: Ashley Sky But seriously, I'm not ignoring what the GM said. I just think they should post clarification of what exactly is cheating, so I can avoid it. (...) Ashley Sky hit you with a perfectly hypocritical shot Even with a bug-hunter misreponding you, you perfectly know this is breaking the game's mechanics. For your problems to understand how the Imune trick is an exploit and absolutely don't fit with Eve features : 1) The game's mechanics allow a corporation to declare war upon another -> you spend isk to fight them. 2) When you can instant-broke this system, where is the purpose of declaring war ? I'll answer it for you -> nowhere. It's killing the Eve wars system, period. Is this so hard to understand ? By the way, being able to do something ingame don't mean it's not an exploit, just because it's not yet repaired. It's why, mmm... sometimes the devs clearly say to not use a feature until it's fixed (yes it can hurt but there's no perfect software, especially on mmorpgs). If they say "this is an exploit, don't do it", well... they are 100% right. Since they are the devs of their game, and they know how they want their game to work. ____________________ Finicky diplomat. Suicidal explorer. Faithful ally.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.02 12:00:00 - [146] Originally by: Drasked You mean in the same way as calling a random customer support 3 times will give you 3 totally diffrent answers? A senior GM classed this as legal use of game mechanics. Excuse me, but how would you know that? Have you petitioned it to a senior GM (if so, please name him/her as he/she can take it up with GM Nova), or are you just repeating what the iMune guys are saying? GM Nova, a senior GM, has in this thread said it was cheating. It doesn't get much clearer than that.
Wyliee Taurus Inc	Posted - 2008.01.02 12:15:00 - [147] Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Wyliee to get a real sense of whats going on here. taurus war dec'ed a corp. the decked corp joined imune, imune didnt even have contact with them prior to joining, thier policy is to accept any applications they get, and imediately boot the corp out of the aliance, hence taking over the war. we went after imune core members, and we killed battle cruiser and some other stuff within 30mins of the war being transfered. trouble is they have 16 members of thier own. Most corps in thier aliance are 1 memeber corps, and they run around if inty's knowing they are hopelessly out classed (i mean no offence to imune). its not like they want to fight wars for other people, they cant even begin to do that, they just wish to abuse a game mechanic (maybe to highlight it who knows). here is thier offical page http://ephemeral.dreamhosters.com/wiki/doku.php if war targets were to run and join an alliance, then stay in the allianace so they can seek shelter, i think that is fair enough - but that clearly isnt happening here. Saying that imune is doing this for the sole purpose of abusing game mechanics is kind of petarded, don't you agree? no not at all, if you read the threads on this matter your note that imune petitioned this issue a while back. and when they didnt get the answer they wanted they decided to go ahead with a buisness that messed with this mechanic, no other reason.. they are not even charging people for the service.
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.01.02 12:16:00 - [148] I considor this crying
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.02 12:18:00 - [149] Edited by: Drasked on 02/01/2008 12:21:47 Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Drasked You mean in the same way as calling a random customer support 3 times will give you 3 totally diffrent answers? A senior GM classed this as legal use of game mechanics. Excuse me, but how would you know that? Have you petitioned it to a senior GM (if so, please name him/her as he/she can take it up with GM Nova), or are you just repeating what the iMune guys are saying? GM Nova, a senior GM, has in this thread said it was cheating. It doesn't get much clearer than that. So anyone who claims his bounty with an alt is getting a warning? So anyone who does exploration and runs multiple scans is getting a warning? Etc, etc, etc, etc, you see where im going?? Just like Privateers they should be allowed to use this untill the game mechanics are changed, or i want that same gm to monitor EVERY game mechanic in this game that is not being used as its intended and hand out warnings for eveyrone that misuses them.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.02 12:20:00 - [150] Edited by: Drasked on 02/01/2008 12:21:07 Originally by: Wyliee Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Wyliee to get a real sense of whats going on here. taurus war dec'ed a corp. the decked corp joined imune, imune didnt even have contact with them prior to joining, thier policy is to accept any applications they get, and imediately boot the corp out of the aliance, hence taking over the war. we went after imune core members, and we killed battle cruiser and some other stuff within 30mins of the war being transfered. trouble is they have 16 members of thier own. Most corps in thier aliance are 1 memeber corps, and they run around if inty's knowing they are hopelessly out classed (i mean no offence to imune). its not like they want to fight wars for other people, they cant even begin to do that, they just wish to abuse a game mechanic (maybe to highlight it who knows). here is thier offical page http://ephemeral.dreamhosters.com/wiki/doku.php if war targets were to run and join an alliance, then stay in the allianace so they can seek shelter, i think that is fair enough - but that clearly isnt happening here. Saying that imune is doing this for the sole purpose of abusing game mechanics is kind of petarded, don't you agree? no not at all, if you read the threads on this matter your note that imune petitioned this issue a while back. and when they didnt get the answer they wanted they decided to go ahead with a buisness that messed with this mechanic, no other reason.. they are not even charging people for the service. Well then you should respect them a lot, they are trying to get the game mechanics fixed for you.

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