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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Wyliee Taurus Inc	Posted - 2008.01.01 16:39:00 - [1] we war decked a corp to do this we took a vote, 24hours wait then we decked them, 24 hours wait ok then good to go. they then joined imune empire aliance, then imediately left, 24 hours later we are left not being able to shoot them without redecking them again. i consider this cheating, and using a loophole that ccp should address.
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2008.01.01 16:44:00 - [2] Looks like 2008 will be the year of the iMune whines. 2007 was the year of the Privateer whines. Which corp did you declare on (no k in "war declaration", btw)? Need a covops or scout? Recruit me!
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.01 16:48:00 - [3] Originally by: Jimer Lins Looks like 2008 will be the year of the iMune whines. 2007 was the year of the Privateer whines. Privateers were just starting lots of wars, iMune are fairly clearly abusing the alliance war system. If decs were meant to have to be redeclared every 2 days, CCP would have made it that way. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2008.01.01 16:55:00 - [4] Well that's good at least. The more people that abuse this mechanic the sooner it'll get fixed. It'll still likely take a while like the privateers fix did.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.01 16:57:00 - [5] Looks like you didn't win the iMune(ity) challenge eh? Got voted off the island? ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :)
Wyliee Taurus Inc	Posted - 2008.01.01 17:04:00 - [6] i dont think war the privateers did was that bad, i coudlnt see the issue with it. but what imune are doing or 'offering' is abuse of game mechanics and recieving this message 'The war between Unethical Medical Services and Taurus Inc is coming to an end. Unethical Medical Services has surrendered to Taurus Inc. The war will be declared as being over after approximately 24 hours.' b4 we even get chance to engage the enemy, it is a problem. end up having to rewar deck them once every 2 days! FIX IT
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2008.01.01 17:13:00 - [7] It's only abuse when the people you don't like do it. Need a covops or scout? Recruit me!
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2008.01.01 17:41:00 - [8] Hmm. This is no more or less of an exploit than what privateers did. Still means it needs to be fixed. When leaving an alliance the war dec needs to stay active against the corp until the next bill is due rather than 24 hours.
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2008.01.01 17:43:00 - [9] Oh, and keep in mind there are DOZENS of ways to avoid any losses to war decs, which are not exploits like this. If people really are that resistant to being war decced I don't think you're going to find any more targets from them if this loophole is closed.
Wyliee Taurus Inc	Posted - 2008.01.01 17:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Jimer Lins It's only abuse when the people you don't like do it. thats typical answer i woudl expect from a carebear. as a merc corp, our game play revolves around war and empire war decs. there are many reasons for war dec's and not all of them are for mindless killing of noob's, often is it to take out stragetic targets in high sec. Removal of competition ETC ETC. all good game fun. at this rate wardecs wil be useless, and we wil not be able to remove a target pos from high sec ever, as you can put enough stront into a pos to protect it till the target corp can cheat thier way out of the dec.
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2008.01.01 17:53:00 - [11] Edited by: Jimer Lins on 01/01/2008 17:54:18 Originally by: Wyliee Originally by: Jimer Lins It's only abuse when the people you don't like do it. thats typical answer i woudl expect from a carebear. as a merc corp, our game play revolves around war and empire war decs. there are many reasons for war dec's and not all of them are for mindless killing of noob's, often is it to take out stragetic targets in high sec. Removal of competition ETC ETC. all good game fun. at this rate wardecs wil be useless, and we wil not be able to remove a target pos from high sec ever, as you can put enough stront into a pos to protect it till the target corp can cheat thier way out of the dec. I didn't say it wasn't a problem, and I'm not saying you're griefing anyone. But way to go ad hominem with the "carebear" ***. Maybe I should have said something insipid like "griefer tears are the sweetest" or something, you know- just to keep up the standards of the forums by not allowing a post to go by without a personal attack. However, the hypocrisy about this has been pretty blatant. Can't claim what the Privateers were doing wasn't an abuse of war mechanics and then claim this is. Abuse is abuse, and if you're going to take a logically consistent stand, this is pretty much the extreme opposite of what the Privateers pulled off- mass evasion of war declarations via abuse of the game mechanics. Is it a problem? Maybe. Me, I'm just enjoying all the whining by the usual suspects who previously lambasted anyone who carped about the Privateers. The worm turns and eventually CCP will get around to plugging this loophole. Until they do, the shoe is on the proverbial other foot. Need a covops or scout? Recruit me!**
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.01 17:55:00 - [12] Privateers used the war system the way it was intended. It's just that the system itself was broken. But what they did wasn't an exploit. This thing is completely different. You should definitely petition them.
Don J Doom Guard	Posted - 2008.01.01 17:57:00 - [13] Edited by: Don J on 01/01/2008 18:02:30 It completely breaks the standard wardec system, and i find it very difficult to believe CCP would intend the wardec mechanics to be used in this way. Hence, exploit. Privs just wardecced a buttload of people. It was a bit but hardly an exploit, and look what happened to them. Prepare for nerfbat imo. edit: Thinking on it some more, does this mean that if you wardec a buddies corp, who then pulls the imune trick, you get a nice 1 week base rate war against a load of people who may or may not be exploiting game mechanics? Because i love that idea.
Wyliee Taurus Inc	Posted - 2008.01.01 18:10:00 - [14] Originally by: Don J Edited by: Don J on 01/01/2008 18:02:30 It completely breaks the standard wardec system, and i find it very difficult to believe CCP would intend the wardec mechanics to be used in this way. Hence, exploit. Privs just wardecced a buttload of people. It was a bit but hardly an exploit, and look what happened to them. Prepare for nerfbat imo. edit: Thinking on it some more, does this mean that if you wardec a buddies corp, who then pulls the imune trick, you get a nice 1 week base rate war against a load of people who may or may not be exploiting game mechanics? Because i love that idea. imune have only 17 members so it wouldnt be worth it.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.01 18:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Hannobaal Privateers used the war system the way it was intended. It's just that the system itself was broken. But what they did wasn't an exploit. This thing is completely different. You should definitely petition them. Try to find the difference between this two phrases: Imune used the war system the way it was intended. It's just that the system itself was broken. But what they did wasn't an exploit. The war system has several hole, privateers found one and it was plugged, Imune has found another and it will be plugged. Both action were within the rules boundaries when they were done (and Imune still is), what Privateers did was never sanctioned as an exploit, the system was changed as it was a broken mechanic. My bet is that the result of the Imune tactic will be exactly the same. Petitioning can accelerate the change, but it will not be declared an exploit.
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2008.01.01 18:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Hannobaal Privateers used the war system the way it was intended. It's just that the system itself was broken. But what they did wasn't an exploit. This thing is completely different. You should definitely petition them. If that were correct, it wouldn't have been changed with a sliding scale. And what iMune is doing is using the war system in the way it was intended- arguably, it's still broken, just in newly understood and entertaining ways. But you can't have it both ways. Privateers needed nerfing, this will probably get the same treatment. In my opinion, "exploit" is probably not the correct term for either situation, but more correctly "abuse of unintended consequences of game mechanics". Need a covops or scout? Recruit me!
Yohanes Flame Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.01 18:33:00 - [17] I find it equally annoying with the wardec and insta restraction with the 24hrs of war. If your can call it that. ____________________________ One Thead to rule them all - Boot.ini pre-patch thread
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.01 18:34:00 - [18] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Hannobaal Privateers used the war system the way it was intended. It's just that the system itself was broken. But what they did wasn't an exploit. This thing is completely different. You should definitely petition them. Try to find the difference between this two phrases: Imune used the war system the way it was intended. It's just that the system itself was broken. But what they did wasn't an exploit. The war system has several hole, privateers found one and it was plugged, Imune has found another and it will be plugged. Both action were within the rules boundaries when they were done (and Imune still is), what Privateers did was never sanctioned as an exploit, the system was changed as it was a broken mechanic. My bet is that the result of the Imune tactic will be exactly the same. Petitioning can accelerate the change, but it will not be declared an exploit. If what these people are doing is not an exploit then nothing is an exploit. I think any person with an ounce of common sense can see that this can not possibly be intended game mechanics. The Privateers on the other hand simply declared war on people. There is nothing about that could be an exploit. The problem was that being able to declare war so easily on so many people so easily was a very bad thing for the game. Saying that what the Privateers did was an exploit would be like saying that people who fit tons of inertial stabilizers on their Typhoons back in spring were exploiting.
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2008.01.01 19:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Hannobaal Privateers used the war system the way it was intended. It's just that the system itself was broken. But what they did wasn't an exploit. This thing is completely different. You should definitely petition them. Try to find the difference between this two phrases: Imune used the war system the way it was intended. It's just that the system itself was broken. But what they did wasn't an exploit. The war system has several hole, privateers found one and it was plugged, Imune has found another and it will be plugged. Both action were within the rules boundaries when they were done (and Imune still is), what Privateers did was never sanctioned as an exploit, the system was changed as it was a broken mechanic. My bet is that the result of the Imune tactic will be exactly the same. Petitioning can accelerate the change, but it will not be declared an exploit. If what these people are doing is not an exploit then nothing is an exploit. I think any person with an ounce of common sense can see that this can not possibly be intended game mechanics. The Privateers on the other hand simply declared war on people. There is nothing about that could be an exploit. The problem was that being able to declare war so easily on so many people so easily was a very bad thing for the game. Saying that what the Privateers did was an exploit would be like saying that people who fit tons of inertial stabilizers on their Typhoons back in spring were exploiting. That it's an exploit is without question. It clearly is exploiting an unintended consequence of certain actions in regards to the wardec system. The 64 billion ISK question is...is it an exploit that CCP will do anything about? There are exploits that are allowed in EVE. Apparently, this 'feature' was PRE-petitioned before IMune started offering it, and was cleared. If that is true, then what? I'd say that the lack of a CCP response has shown that, at least in the present tense, it's not an actionable exploit. Whether they're still looking at it, waiting to see if it blows over, avoiding it like the plague so they don't have to fix the wardec system, or just get a perverse pleasure out of watching griefers get blueballed...well, that remains to be seen.
InigoMontoya Amarr KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.01 19:15:00 - [20] I would most definately say this was an abuse and exploit of game mechanics. I would sue Concord for breach of contract, you paid the fees, where is your pew pew?
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.01.01 19:37:00 - [21] Sounds similar to giving someone roles to stop them quitting to me. ---- Anything less is wasted effort
Kessiaan	Posted - 2008.01.01 19:38:00 - [22] Edited by: Kessiaan on 01/01/2008 19:39:18 I do think this an exploit but so long as there's a mechanic to escape wardecs people are going to do it. Whether it's this method, dissolving/reforming the corp, or everyone going back to the NPC corp you have to accept the fact that if people can escape and don't have anything to lose by doing it they will. In highsec I feel most people expect the balance of power to favor the carebears and mercs/privateers aren't going to get much sympathy for their cause. Perhaps a better course of action would be some sort of officially sanctioned method of war cancellation in Empire. Perhaps if people paid 'protection' money to CONCORD on a monthly basis they wouldn't allow wardecs against that corp unless the dec'ing corp paid 200-300% of the protection amount. Of course if anything like this happens all the existing loopholes would have to be taken out. ----- My in Eve Profile My BattleClinic Page
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.01 19:50:00 - [23] Originally by: Kessiaan Edited by: Kessiaan on 01/01/2008 19:39:18 I do think this an exploit but so long as there's a mechanic to escape wardecs people are going to do it. Whether it's this method, dissolving/reforming the corp, or everyone going back to the NPC corp you have to accept the fact that if people can escape and don't have anything to lose by doing it they will. In highsec I feel most people expect the balance of power to favor the carebears and mercs/privateers aren't going to get much sympathy for their cause. Perhaps a better course of action would be some sort of officially sanctioned method of war cancellation in Empire. Perhaps if people paid 'protection' money to CONCORD on a monthly basis they wouldn't allow wardecs against that corp unless the dec'ing corp paid 200-300% of the protection amount. Of course if anything like this happens all the existing loopholes would have to be taken out. Yes, well the definition of an exploit is being able to use game mechanics in an unintended way for your advantage. If we used you're logic nothing would be an exploit. Find something in the game that allows you to duplicate ships at no cost, well it wouldn't be an exploit, after all it is in game and someone is going to use it. -Karlemgne
Kessiaan	Posted - 2008.01.01 19:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Karlemgne Yes, well the definition of an exploit is being able to use game mechanics in an unintended way for your advantage. If we used you're logic nothing would be an exploit. Find something in the game that allows you to duplicate ships at no cost, well it wouldn't be an exploit, after all it is in game and someone is going to use it. -Karlemgne The problem is that is the defination of an exploit... in other games. In Eve anything you can do using in-game mechanics is legal.. period. CCP may discourage some things but when was the last time you ever heard of any action being taken against anyone for any completley in-game action? That's why I think the mechanics themselves need to change. If you say "Oh noes that's cheating the carebears can't just jump around alliances it's not fair!" they're just going to point at everything equally shady that you've done and said in recent times and tell you learn to live wit it. And they'd be right. The best solution, and the only one that will permanantly solve any kind of issue with game mechanics, is to change those mechanics so they line up with CCP's vision of the game (and keep them in business, whichever is more important at the moment ) ----- My in Eve Profile My BattleClinic Page
Xaen Caldari Thunder Muffin	Posted - 2008.01.01 20:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Paper Rock is fine, nerf scissors. -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2008.01.01 20:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Paper Rock is fine, nerf scissors. No, just boost paper. Need a covops or scout? Recruit me!
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.01 20:11:00 - [27] Return decs to how they were and leave imune how it is. Everyones happy.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2008.01.01 20:19:00 - [28] Originally by: Kessiaan In highsec I feel most people expect the balance of power to favor the carebears and mercs/privateers aren't going to get much sympathy for their cause. Perhaps a better course of action would be some sort of officially sanctioned method of war cancellation in Empire. Perhaps if people paid 'protection' money to CONCORD on a monthly basis they wouldn't allow wardecs against that corp unless the dec'ing corp paid 200-300% of the protection amount. Of course if anything like this happens all the existing loopholes would have to be taken out. the wars can happen because someone bribed the concord officials to look the other way. what eve needs is a mechanic to let the war decced party to bribe the officials to pay attention again. after that let the highest bidder prevail.
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.01 20:34:00 - [29] Edited by: Kharadran Sullath on 01/01/2008 20:34:07 Bah, nvm. ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.01 20:37:00 - [30] Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Paper Rock is fine, nerf scissors. No, just boost paper. I never liked paper. It just isn't a realistic choice against a rock. --- Join BH-DL Skills

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