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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
dakari	Posted - 2008.01.03 00:21:00 - [211] Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Hannobaal Privateers used the war system the way it was intended. It's just that the system itself was broken. But what they did wasn't an exploit. This thing is completely different. You should definitely petition them. Try to find the difference between this two phrases: Imune used the war system the way it was intended. It's just that the system itself was broken. But what they did wasn't an exploit. The war system has several hole, privateers found one and it was plugged, Imune has found another and it will be plugged. Both action were within the rules boundaries when they were done (and Imune still is), what Privateers did was never sanctioned as an exploit, the system was changed as it was a broken mechanic. My bet is that the result of the Imune tactic will be exactly the same. Petitioning can accelerate the change, but it will not be declared an exploit. If what these people are doing is not an exploit then nothing is an exploit. I think any person with an ounce of common sense can see that this can not possibly be intended game mechanics. The Privateers on the other hand simply declared war on people. There is nothing about that could be an exploit. The problem was that being able to declare war so easily on so many people so easily was a very bad thing for the game. Saying that what the Privateers did was an exploit would be like saying that people who fit tons of inertial stabilizers on their Typhoons back in spring were exploiting. BY privateer's do you mean the people who formed temporary corps to wardec noobcorps or mining/industrial corps and then when paid off disbanded the corp they were in and made another corp so they themselves would not be able to be attacked by pirate hunters and merc corps?
Xaroth Brook Minmatar BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.03 00:43:00 - [212] I still fail to see the point in discussing stuff about this when Nova 'answered' the entire ordeal 5 pages ago... I mean... shouldn't you be pewpewing again? It was like a baby, it landed on my lap and was helpless and totally defenseless. Then I shot it and bragged about it on a killboard.
Sniggerdly Hater	Posted - 2008.01.03 01:28:00 - [213] Originally by: goodby4u Its funny how this thread is 8 pages long even though a top GM clarified it is an exploit,whether or not theres a frontpage post about it being an exploit,a warning is a warning. And what are they going to say? Joining an alliance so you pass to them the war and then leave the alliance without the war is not allowed? Woops, now everyone knows what not to do. Except that everyone now can join and leave an alliance as they please and argue uh... whatever the farmers argue when they dissolve "a ffxho" and reform in "a cchid". I've read that that's legal. Of course CCP will use "judgement" calls, people petitioning other corps because "they joined the alliance when we decced them so obviously they have to be cheating", and will result in getting varying degrees of responses from the same GM depending on whether he got laid lately. All hail the rule of man. What they should do is fix the whole empire war thing.
Marrano Cardosa	Posted - 2008.01.03 01:29:00 - [214] Originally by: Xaroth Brook I still fail to see the point in discussing stuff about this when Nova 'answered' the entire ordeal 5 pages ago... I mean... shouldn't you be pewpewing again? That's the whole problem, GM Nova provided no real answer.
Kransthow AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.01.03 01:37:00 - [215] Originally by: Marrano Cardosa That's the whole problem, GM Nova provided no real answer. Originally by: GM Nova This is cheating, plain and simple. CEOs exploiting this loophole will receive a warning from now on. Looks like a pretty good answer to imunes exploitery
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.03 01:45:00 - [216] Originally by: S****dly Hater Originally by: goodby4u Its funny how this thread is 8 pages long even though a top GM clarified it is an exploit,whether or not theres a frontpage post about it being an exploit,a warning is a warning. And what are they going to say? Joining an alliance so you pass to them the war and then leave the alliance without the war is not allowed? Woops, now everyone knows what not to do. Except that everyone now can join and leave an alliance as they please and argue uh... whatever the farmers argue when they dissolve "a ffxho" and reform in "a cchid". I've read that that's legal. Of course CCP will use "judgement" calls, people petitioning other corps because "they joined the alliance when we decced them so obviously they have to be cheating", and will result in getting varying degrees of responses from the same GM depending on whether he got laid lately. All hail the rule of man. What they should do is fix the whole empire war thing. If somebody joins an allience purely with the intent to relieve themselves of a war is wrong,its also quite easy to find the people who do...If they join with a war going then leave again within a weak then its obvious. Oh and they should anounce how to do it publicly,along with a list of ways they are going to fix the problem and if anybody uses this exploit they will be banned,but thats totally another subject as all i was saying is nova told the leaders of imune this is an exploit so there shouldnt even be an arguement,regardless of what some crazy bughunter says. Signature removed. Contains no Eve content. Navigator ([email protected])
Drykor Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:14:00 - [217] Didn't read 8 pages, but I consider this an exploit as well.
Galsia Yovinda Gallente Dec Me Please	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:19:00 - [218] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: S****dly Hater Originally by: goodby4u Its funny how this thread is 8 pages long even though a top GM clarified it is an exploit,whether or not theres a frontpage post about it being an exploit,a warning is a warning. And what are they going to say? Joining an alliance so you pass to them the war and then leave the alliance without the war is not allowed? Woops, now everyone knows what not to do. Except that everyone now can join and leave an alliance as they please and argue uh... whatever the farmers argue when they dissolve "a ffxho" and reform in "a cchid". I've read that that's legal. Of course CCP will use "judgement" calls, people petitioning other corps because "they joined the alliance when we decced them so obviously they have to be cheating", and will result in getting varying degrees of responses from the same GM depending on whether he got laid lately. All hail the rule of man. What they should do is fix the whole empire war thing. If somebody joins an allience purely with the intent to relieve themselves of a war is wrong,its also quite easy to find the people who do...If they join with a war going then leave again within a weak then its obvious. Oh and they should anounce how to do it publicly,along with a list of ways they are going to fix the problem and if anybody uses this exploit they will be banned,but thats totally another subject as all i was saying is nova told the leaders of imune this is an exploit so there shouldnt even be an arguement,regardless of what some crazy bughunter says. Things are not always that simple. corp A joins to get more help with the wardec, alliance leadership finds issues with some of corp A's pilots behaving against alliance rules. Corp A leadership shrugs, alliance boots them. Many other issues like that can arrise, including a corp joining and then targeting other alliance ships just to get booted.
Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.03 05:06:00 - [219] Thing is.. what about the thousands of players who do not browse the forums, they¦ll find this loophole too. I believe iMune found out about this loophole and did frown upon it, by making it this public they forced CCP to make a move.And theyre doing good on giving it more pressure. Cause all they want and we want is a change to wardecs so they work better in the spirit of the game. A statement of a GM on the forums wont prevent players ingame to do so again..we need a change in the mechanics...either way _________________ itze mine
Wynona Mesopotamia iMune Empire	Posted - 2008.01.03 05:57:00 - [220] iMune backstory; When we discovered this game mechanic, it was being used on us. We weren't too happy about it, but we didn't throw a forum tantrum like most of you here. We petitioned it like the rules say to do when you find a possible exploit. For you tantrum dancers; petitions and bug reports are 2 completely different things, we did both. The results were, get over it, it's supposed to be this way. Then a light bulb went off, if you can't beat 'em, join em. iMune was born. We expected a huge uproar and boy were we right. The forum whiners gave me more belly laughs in the last 2 weeks than all the smacky victims I've tortured all put together. Thank you for being the malfunctioning smoke alarms you are. As for how this is being addressed by CCP, it needs some lovin'. Tossing out the cheat card, censorship and locking threads is dirt under the carpet damage control. There's healthier ways to implement a solution without disturbing the player base. This item contains a hint. Link to a pic of me in real life iMune Empire FAQ's
Kindra Flies Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.01.03 07:01:00 - [221] This is a wierd situation. Simply because if a corp leaves, for example, Privateers, wouldn't they be committing the same situation by exiting current wars? No offense there Hooch, I think you rock lol. But the situation brings itself to bare? A corp no longer wants to fight the long list of wars and exits, hereby dropping a war it was engaged in. In either case, you have someone dropping war decs? There are 2 sides to the coin here and it looks as though CCP are behind griefer groups more than they are others. Maybe, a correction could be that if a corp wants to join an alliance when war decced, the war becomes mutual (since the original deal for CONCORD to look the other way has been renigged and the corp is looking for "protection"). Corps joining an alliance should have to pay more to join an alliance when decced than the normal fee (If corps continue to join alliances to get clear of decs, it'll cost them instead of the original deccing organization). Then if the corp leaves the alliance, the corp was the one decced so they should still be decced and the alliance loses the war after the 24 hour period.
Jojo Redana	Posted - 2008.01.03 08:52:00 - [222] My mom said it's not cheating to prevent war. People should make love not war! So who to believe, my mom or some random GM answer in random topic? Is the forum right place to make statements about what's cheating and what is not? How many empire CEO's know about this thread and read what the GM said? Do they know that joining the iMune is cheating? I wonder. Why CCP can't make this issue clear and say it OUT LOUD in the news so everyone can read about it!? Way to go, again. 2 isk to CCP. -- I'm lost in space
Considered Caldari The Lost Prophets Euro Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.03 09:02:00 - [223] Originally by: GM Nova This is cheating, plain and simple. CEOs exploiting this loophole will receive a warning from now on. GM Nova Senior Game Master EVE Online Customer Support Because they join an alliance?
fasfhadtrv	Posted - 2008.01.03 09:12:00 - [224] Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Actually, I find it rather funny that there's a game mechanic available for noob corps to stave off wars from corps that are more powerful... If some noob corp CEO came in here to complain about a strong corp arbitrarily declaring war on them, he'd be covered in forum molotov*****tails within 10 minutes. Funnily enough this happens all the time
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.01.03 10:20:00 - [225] Originally by: Kindra Flies CCP are behind griefer groups more than they are others. Originally by: Kindra Flies griefer groups Originally by: Kindra Flies griefer Get a grip. Not every corp who declares war does so on so-called "innocent industrial corps." By trying to portray everyone who uses war as griefers, you reveal a pretty nasty bias. I'm not saying you aren't looking out for the best interests of Eve, but it does call into question your motives. It would probably serve you better in the future to refrain from using such flagrantly inflammatory generalizations.
Sofia Roseburn Caldari Taurus Inc	Posted - 2008.01.03 13:52:00 - [226] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Kindra Flies CCP are behind griefer groups more than they are others. Originally by: Kindra Flies griefer groups Originally by: Kindra Flies griefer Get a grip. Not every corp who declares war does so on so-called "innocent industrial corps." By trying to portray everyone who uses war as griefers, you reveal a pretty nasty bias. I'm not saying you aren't looking out for the best interests of Eve, but it does call into question your motives. It would probably serve you better in the future to refrain from using such flagrantly inflammatory generalizations. Ah yes, but we know that 90% of the forum population don't have their heads screwed on properly. Also, hi again ¼_¼ -----
dakari	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:32:00 - [227] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: S****dly Hater Originally by: goodby4u Its funny how this thread is 8 pages long even though a top GM clarified it is an exploit,whether or not theres a frontpage post about it being an exploit,a warning is a warning. And what are they going to say? Joining an alliance so you pass to them the war and then leave the alliance without the war is not allowed? Woops, now everyone knows what not to do. Except that everyone now can join and leave an alliance as they please and argue uh... whatever the farmers argue when they dissolve "a ffxho" and reform in "a cchid". I've read that that's legal. Of course CCP will use "judgement" calls, people petitioning other corps because "they joined the alliance when we decced them so obviously they have to be cheating", and will result in getting varying degrees of responses from the same GM depending on whether he got laid lately. All hail the rule of man. What they should do is fix the whole empire war thing. If somebody joins an allience purely with the intent to relieve themselves of a war is wrong,its also quite easy to find the people who do...If they join with a war going then leave again within a weak then its obvious. Oh and they should anounce how to do it publicly,along with a list of ways they are going to fix the problem and if anybody uses this exploit they will be banned,but thats totally another subject as all i was saying is nova told the leaders of imune this is an exploit so there shouldnt even be an arguement,regardless of what some crazy bughunter says. I actually don't see this as wrong. Someone who can and is willing to fight is willingly taking over other corps wardecs. The only people who should really be complaining about this are the ones with legitimate complaints about the corp trying to offload their wardec. I.E. corp A talks smack to corp B so much and all the time that corpB declares war, corpA being the ****ers that they are offload their wardec onto a bigger and more powerful corp/alliance and corpB is now on the short end of the stick. If you're just some slimebag exhtortionist and you are complaining about this take it like a man and just change corps like you have always done.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:39:00 - [228] Originally by: Considered Originally by: GM Nova This is cheating, plain and simple. CEOs exploiting this loophole will receive a warning from now on. GM Nova Senior Game Master EVE Online Customer Support Because they join an alliance? no... because they join it... and then leave it to loose the dec. anyone who joins and then stays... no probs what so ever just the muppets who join it for 20 sec to get dec removed will be warned ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
Mitchell Schwitzer	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:50:00 - [229] Originally by: techzer0 Looks like you didn't win the iMune(ity) challenge eh? Got voted off the island? QFlulz
sneakybustard	Posted - 2008.01.03 16:26:00 - [230] Originally by: Wyliee we war decked a corp to do this we took a vote, 24hours wait then we decked them, 24 hours wait ok then good to go. they then joined imune empire aliance, then imediately left, 24 hours later we are left not being able to shoot them without redecking them again. i consider this cheating, and using a loophole that ccp should address. http://www.seomoz.org/images/upload/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg
Xilimyth Derlin The Funkalistic SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.03 16:47:00 - [231] Originally by: Wynona iMune backstory; When we discovered this game mechanic, it was being used on us. We weren't too happy about it, but we didn't throw a forum tantrum like most of you here. We petitioned it like the rules say to do when you find a possible exploit. For you tantrum dancers; petitions and bug reports are 2 completely different things, we did both. The results were, get over it, it's supposed to be this way. Then a light bulb went off, if you can't beat 'em, join em. iMune was born. We expected a huge uproar and boy were we right. The forum whiners gave me more belly laughs in the last 2 weeks than all the smacky victims I've tortured all put together. Thank you for being the malfunctioning smoke alarms you are. As for how this is being addressed by CCP, it needs some lovin'. Tossing out the cheat card, censorship and locking threads is dirt under the carpet damage control. There's healthier ways to implement a solution without disturbing the player base. This item contains a hint. Link to a pic of me in real life This may be part of the problem actually. One or two corps doing it to evade a war is limited to one or two corporations. But once it becomes public knowledge and everyone's doing it, you start having a system-wide breakdown of the game mechanic. Escalation in action. Don't get me wrong. When one of my old corps was war decced, I wish we could've used your service, because as one of three combat pilots in the corp, fighting almost 4 to 1 odds to protect the industrialist was a bit extreme. (Lost a lot of ravens on that char). The point being, by advertising it as a service ("Get out of war free card") and explaining how its done probably shook the hornet's nest on what-ifs. Again, a few corps slipping through the *****s is FAR less game breaking then it becoming a well known tactic. I'm no fan of wars in Empire space myself, but doing this removes the distinction of staying in a newbie corp versus forming a corp of your own and also makes the war system unfair to those paying for the war. (If it's their first war, no big deal.... if they're paying for a 5th or 6th war to get rid of an industrial alt corp supplying an enemy... that's a LOT of money being swindled from another player).
Ashley Sky Mesopotamia iMune Empire	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:32:00 - [232] Originally by: Wynona The results were, get over it, it's supposed to be this way. Then a light bulb went off, if you can't beat 'em, join em. iMune was born. We expected a huge uproar and boy were we right. The forum whiners gave me more belly laughs in the last 2 weeks than all the smacky victims I've tortured all put together. Thank you for being the malfunctioning smoke alarms you are. It's a long-time established formula, tried and true, tempered by the supervillains of EVE that push the boundries. A lot of good has come from their evil deeds. Concord, wardec revamps, can flagging, etc. First we stole your ores, then we stole your wars. The community reaction was just as it always was. If you want a nerf, all you have to do is push the right buttons. We got this one in record time, for one of the oldest broken game mechanics there was. I'd say job well done, Miss Wynona. Well done. As always, I'm sad to see it go. Such gleeful torment and chaos added so much entertaining content to the game. But in the end, someone had to do it.
Pennwisedom	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:37:00 - [233] A nerf and plugging a loophole are not the same thing.
nether void Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:46:00 - [234] I'm not sure if someone has already said this, because I don't have time to read all 8 pages, but the true definition of an exploit is upon finding a bug in the game which allows the player to do something not intended by the development team, that player uses the bug to his or her advantage instead of reporting it and not further triggering the bug. If it's not a bug, it can't be an exploit. It's just an unrefined game mechanic. --------------------------- nethervoid - since '97 [UO\|EQ\|SB\|SWG\|PS\|EVE\|HZ\|NWN\|VG\|WoW]
Ashley Sky Mesopotamia iMune Empire	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:57:00 - [235] Originally by: nether void I'm not sure if someone has already said this, because I don't have time to read all 8 pages, but the true definition of an exploit is upon finding a bug in the game which allows the player to do something not intended by the development team, that player uses the bug to his or her advantage instead of reporting it and not further triggering the bug. If it's not a bug, it can't be an exploit. It's just an unrefined game mechanic. But we did report it before using it and were told that it was not an exploit. Once, twice, three times a lady. Senior GM flip-flopper changed the rules because of a time-of-the month moodswing, so now it is indeed an exploit, and our use of it has come to its conclusion.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:01:00 - [236] Originally by: Ashley Sky But we did report it before using it and were told that it was not an exploit. Once, twice, three times a lady. Senior GM flip-flopper changed the rules because of a time-of-the month moodswing, so now it is indeed an exploit, and our use of it has come to its conclusion. i'm kind of hoping this thread is the result of another person 'knowing a gm on msn' and giving them a ring, then the gm responding with an 'off the cuff' response without actually checking the actual situation. i'm grabbing the popcorn. drama rocks when it has nothing to do with myself. I <3 empire.. usually.
Wynona Mesopotamia iMune Empire	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:22:00 - [237] FYI The rules of reporting exploits are clear, they are handled through the petition system only, please take a moment to read them. If reporting exploits on the forums are against the rules, then encouraging them should be too. GM Nova should of locked this thread and followed company protocol by telling the OP to file a petition like everyone else. The handling of this issue here instead of through the standard protocol petition system is what created this matter of confused policies. Originally by: GM Nova This is cheating, plain and simple. CEOs exploiting this loophole will receive a warning from now on. GM Nova Senior Game Master EVE Online Customer Support iMune Empire FAQ's
Jonathan Calvert Minmatar The Smithzonian Institute	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:22:00 - [238] Originally by: Wynona FYI The rules of reporting exploits are clear, they are handled through the petition system only, please take a moment to read them. If reporting exploits on the forums are against the rules, then encouraging them should be too. GM Nova should of locked this thread and followed company protocol by telling the OP to file a petition like everyone else. The handling of this issue here instead of through the standard protocol petition system is what created this matter of confused policies. Originally by: GM Nova This is cheating, plain and simple. CEOs exploiting this loophole will receive a warning from now on. GM Nova Senior Game Master EVE Online Customer Support Did a bug hunter tell you about this policy also?
Miki Fin Gallente Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:27:00 - [239] meh GM Nova says you only get a warning from doing it anyway. It's not as if you'll get banned.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:43:00 - [240] Originally by: Jonathan Calvert Originally by: Wynona FYI The rules of reporting exploits are clear, they are handled through the petition system only, please take a moment to read them. If reporting exploits on the forums are against the rules, then encouraging them should be too. GM Nova should of locked this thread and followed company protocol by telling the OP to file a petition like everyone else. The handling of this issue here instead of through the standard protocol petition system is what created this matter of confused policies. Originally by: GM Nova This is cheating, plain and simple. CEOs exploiting this loophole will receive a warning from now on. GM Nova Senior Game Master EVE Online Customer Support Did a bug hunter tell you about this policy also? QFT

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