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Carebear's and griefers, insight into a persons real life character?

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Stalac	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:05:00 - [1] As a new member to eve i have noticed these two words being used quite often, it seems to me that since an online rpg like eve allows people to act out their fantasies not only without consequence but also in relative anonymity, that people may well choose to play the style that they most desire to, without fear of being judged. Some eve players build, create and prospect, while others take delight in harassing and living off said players backs, i cant help but wondering if those who steal and delight in ill gotten gain would love to do so in real life, if only they were'nt scared of the law, or judgment of their peers. if anyone has a psychological background i would be deeply interested if there is any truth to this nagging idea i have, or whether there is no substance to it whatsoever. This is a tongue in cheek question btw, just a bit of fun :)
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:08:00 - [2] Of course... half of these people would sh*t a brick of they tried to gank someone in RL. But that is the beauty of games.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:09:00 - [3] i can be a real ass ingame... i mean.. shoot anything that moves.. gank haulers in hi sec etc etc. in rl... i dont even think about that stuff.. im quite "normal" in real life. doesnt mean that if i do this stuff ingame means im a mass murderer/bank robber in rl ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:09:00 - [4] I find that the people who behave like knobs are knobs. And the last person who said he wanted to get me in RL, I gave him my address. I'm still waiting. -- Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something?
Meloric	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:14:00 - [5] Well part of it could be attributed to their deepseated angst about their mother but probably most of it is related to the fact that this is a Role Playing Game. So, I would expect Pirates to be heartless basturds that try to kill me and take my loot at any and every chance possible.
Miss Ore	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:14:00 - [6] Originally by: Gaven Blands And the last person who said he wanted to get me in RL, I gave him my address. I'm still waiting.
Everyone Dies Caldari Lucky Tampon	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:15:00 - [7] I gank people in game and I gank people in RL. I fire them from their jobs. I don't care if they are pregnant, have children or dying of cancer if they aren't doing their job correctly they get the boot.
Drake Dracoli Incarnation of Evil	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:20:00 - [8] One of my corp members, who is a space pirate, is applying to go to the Police Academy. Be afraid, be very afraid. ------ \o/ Raise thy weapons on this day Ye shall not die alone Fight and die; let valkyries fly For they shall take thee home!
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:24:00 - [9] I work for the government... that's kinda like being a griefer, right? ------------ Originally by: Praxis1452 you win eve
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:37:00 - [10] It is easy to blame the griefers, that they can (and are allowed to) leech on your hard work. But the only true reason they can do that, is because you allow them to. CCP may have given griefers a tool to do their thing, but they have also give you the same tools to grief the griefers. I my self couldn't hurt a fly in or out of game, unless it was for a cause. Taking for the sake of taking, is not fun in my book.
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:41:00 - [11] well being in the armed forces i've thought if i could shoot someone and the answer is yeah i could. but not for phat lootz though ;(
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:44:00 - [12] The actions of some people have me fear for them... i can't help but wonder and think that if u act like a jerk in EVE how likely it is this person is a jerk in RL as well... or atleast mentally a bit unstable. Sadly we are not as evolved as we would like to be CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:46:00 - [13] Most people wouldn't even consider doing the things they do in games in real life, but I believe its only because of society. Were it as relatively lawless in real life as it is in eve, then you would see the exact same things happen in real life. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
PhantomVyper Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Stalac As a new member to eve i have noticed these two words being used quite often, it seems to me that since an online rpg like eve allows people to act out their fantasies not only without consequence but also in relative anonymity, that people may well choose to play the style that they most desire to, without fear of being judged. Some eve players build, create and prospect, while others take delight in harassing and living off said players backs, i cant help but wondering if those who steal and delight in ill gotten gain would love to do so in real life, if only they were'nt scared of the law, or judgment of their peers. if anyone has a psychological background i would be deeply interested if there is any truth to this nagging idea i have, or whether there is no substance to it whatsoever. This is a tongue in cheek question btw, just a bit of fun :) Yes, you're quite right and I completly agree with you![/sarcasm] Either that or the ppl that roleplay bad guys in the game are just as normal as everyone else and just have a higher IQ than the average whinie carebear that allows them to distinguish between what is a GAME and what is RL...
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:54:00 - [15] I am much better behaved in EvE than real life, afterall it takes a lot more than a database manager to ban you from RL! -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. mooooooo.
Stalac	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:55:00 - [16] I am essentially thinking of subconcious desire, i am aware most people wouldnt act on it. Nice to see i touched a sore spot with you though :)
Idhan	Posted - 2008.01.02 14:56:00 - [17] last post meant for phantom viper
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Most people wouldn't even consider doing the things they do in games in real life, but I believe its only because of society. Were it as relatively lawless in real life as it is in eve, then you would see the exact same things happen in real life. I've actually blown a car up and it's fun as hell - destruction is FUN - people in RL are carebears, accumulating craploads of stuff to make them happier when they can't see how futile it is, how they are being used, then they cry when someone comes along and makes off with their bang and olufsen hifi, seriously lol. Eve is a lot like RL, mostly full of carebears with a small minority saying 'damn, i ain't doing that crap!' It's just the food chain innit, like how people farm cows and sheep, people farm other people for money. -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. mooooooo.
Drake Dracoli Incarnation of Evil	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:06:00 - [19] At least for me, MMOs are way to reach a sort of personal fantasy of what I can't be in real life. EVE Online allows me to be whatever I want to be, a dashing space pirate, a dangerous entrepreneur, or a rouge mercenary. I'm a pretty generous, and good-natured guy in real life, and I even some times feel guilty when I pop and pod some people. But hey, I'm making the game interesting. Without people like me, there would be no conflict in the EVE Online. And that's what makes EVE an interesting game to play - conflict. ------ \o/ Raise thy weapons on this day Ye shall not die alone Fight and die; let valkyries fly For they shall take thee home!
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:07:00 - [20] I think it would be easier to profile people from their earliest years , when they're kids playing cops & robbers. While those playing cops will probably become productive members of the society , those inclined to play robbers should be closely watched , and turned to a therapist before they grow too strong a criminal mindset. If nothing is done , this seemingly innocent "playing" will in time turn them into hardened criminals.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:07:00 - [21] I dont think so, i'm pretty nice in RL but i kill a lot of carebears ingame... When i first started pvping i felt very guilty when i won, unless they attacked me first, even if it was a close fight, however you just get used to it or numb... whichever
PhantomVyper Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Stalac I am essentially thinking of subconcious desire, i am aware most people wouldnt act on it. Nice to see i touched a sore spot with you though :) Ok, since this was for me I'll reply. You didn't touch a sore spot, I realize you are new to the game, but we get at least 1 thread like this every weak, thats why my reply was so harsh. Now as to your alegation of subconscious desires: I would like to eject some RL ppl into space and / or watch them beeing burned alive namelly child molesters, rapists and other charming folks like that. In rl, I'm just a normal guy, I even commit random acts of kindness to strangers and small animals. The reason I choose to be a pirate / low-life scum in EVE is because that gamestyle allows me the biggest amount of freedom whille doing what I like (PVP), without beeing tied to the politics of EVE. I will kill and pod (or ransom), anyone that gets in my way if I can, but I will also offer advice on how to avoid it next time and have even reimbursed some ppl that actually didn't knew what they where doing when they jumped into my particular low-sec system. I suspect that most EVE pirates are like me, certainly all that I've found so far have been, they are also alot more laid back and suportive to their corpmates than almost any member of a so called good-guy corp.
Z3r0n THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:11:00 - [23] I also don't think there is muc correlation between in-game and real life violence. I for one love to shoot things in EVE and in real life i prefer a sword.. you see? No problem what so ever. Currently Training: ePeen Compensation Rank (19)
Andrest Disch Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:18:00 - [24] Edited by: Andrest Disch on 02/01/2008 15:17:49 Living off the backs of those people? Without conflict and pirates, theere wouldn't be much of an economy. There wouldn't need to be loads of industrialists, of market players, of mission runners.. War is the game. War makes the game playable.
Stalac	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:19:00 - [25] Originally by: PhantomVyper Originally by: Stalac I am essentially thinking of subconcious desire, i am aware most people wouldnt act on it. Nice to see i touched a sore spot with you though :) Ok, since this was for me I'll reply. You didn't touch a sore spot, I realize you are new to the game, but we get at least 1 thread like this every weak, thats why my reply was so harsh. Now as to your alegation of subconscious desires: I would like to eject some RL ppl into space and / or watch them beeing burned alive namelly child molesters, rapists and other charming folks like that. In rl, I'm just a normal guy, I even commit random acts of kindness to strangers and small animals. The reason I choose to be a pirate / low-life scum in EVE is because that gamestyle allows me the biggest amount of freedom whille doing what I like (PVP), without beeing tied to the politics of EVE. I will kill and pod (or ransom), anyone that gets in my way if I can, but I will also offer advice on how to avoid it next time and have even reimbursed some ppl that actually didn't knew what they where doing when they jumped into my particular low-sec system. I suspect that most EVE pirates are like me, certainly all that I've found so far have been, they are also alot more laid back and suportive to their corpmates than almost any member of a so called good-guy corp. Your second post was a lot fairer than your first, so i apologise for my rash comment.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:32:00 - [26] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 02/01/2008 15:33:52 That's a stupid comparison really. You're assuming that the motivations and outcomes for ingame griefing are the same as for out of game crime. If I grief someone in a computer game what I am doing is adversely effecting their leisure time. There's no real damage being done. Worst case scenario for them they'll log in a huff and go do something else. What I get out of it is the satisfaction of winding someone up. I haven't done any real harm to them. If they consider that I have they have real problems with perspective. Unless you're limiting your enquiry to crime of a similar nature it's not a good question to ask. Can you think of any crimes of a similar nature? Your comparison only works if you see someone's internet spaceshps as being the same as their real property which is obviously a tad idiotic. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Patsy kavanagh	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:33:00 - [27] Personally when i'm being bad in eve, its not that i'm playing out real life fantasys, its more that i'm doing things i'd never really do irl, thats why its escapism
Reacz Caldari Empirius Enigmus Navy Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:35:00 - [28] Most people use games to vent their anger, suffering and general dislike for their boss/friends/work collegues, whatever. I'd much rather people shot me on a computer game than in real life. And before you ask me if I'm nutty because I like to shoot people in a space game with internet spaceships, I'll tell you that I'm prone to my bouts of violence and hatred just like any man, if that makes me slightly mental, so be it. We're only human after all. ;)
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:42:00 - [29] Originally by: Stalac As a new member to eve i have noticed these two words being used quite often, it seems to me that since an online rpg like eve allows people to act out their fantasies not only without consequence but also in relative anonymity, that people may well choose to play the style that they most desire to, without fear of being judged. Some eve players build, create and prospect, while others take delight in harassing and living off said players backs, i cant help but wondering if those who steal and delight in ill gotten gain would love to do so in real life, if only they were'nt scared of the law, or judgment of their peers. if anyone has a psychological background i would be deeply interested if there is any truth to this nagging idea i have, or whether there is no substance to it whatsoever. This is a tongue in cheek question btw, just a bit of fun :) No offense, but you are not the sharpest tool in the shed if you think this is anything but a game. For instance, my old corporation- mainly pirates in EVE- but all EMT's and Paramedics in real life. Clearly a bunch of rotten, evil, demented bastards. It's a game, and the sole point of gaming has always been to KILL, KILL, KILL. If you do not like it, then play single player games.
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:47:00 - [30] well if you look at it from a psycologist view i wouldent say it the way u do.. more like... those who agress might be to nice in rl and need some atitude out in the game as they dont have the balls to do so in rl.. this goes for some not all ofc.. and then theres the cute carebear players.. well they might be real asses in rl and seek a place to relax before there temper goes nut.. this ofc dosent go for all aswell.. but in mmopg games people have a tendencie to play the oposit of there own self.. u can however never generalise. theres all aspect and its a study in rl worthy.. theres a lot of studies on this subject just google it.. OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Idhan	Posted - 2008.01.02 15:51:00 - [31] Originally by: SoftRevolution Edited by: SoftRevolution on 02/01/2008 15:33:52 That's a stupid comparison really. You're assuming that the motivations and outcomes for ingame griefing are the same as for out of game crime. actually i was putting forward the possible suggestion that a desire to grief ingame may be linked to a desire to grief in real life. If I grief someone in a computer game what I am doing is adversely effecting their leisure time. There's no real damage being done. Worst case scenario for them they'll log in a huff and go do something else. What I get out of it is the satisfaction of winding someone up. I haven't done any real harm to them. If they consider that I have they have real problems with perspective. You get the satisfaction of winding some one up, why? Unless you're limiting your enquiry to crime of a similar nature it's not a good question to ask. Can you think of any crimes of a similar nature? not crimes, but i can think of similar actions, petty bullying in a work enviroment for example. Your comparison only works if you see someone's internet spaceshps as being the same as their real property which is obviously a tad idiotic. Considering people pay to play the game, and spend loads of time doing so, (and as any eve citizen will tell me time is money)you could consider their ships as their property, its not that idiotic, see? unlike yourself i managed to answer you without calling you names, or implying youre an idiot :)
Gridwalker Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:07:00 - [32] This is just a game, and 99.999% of people realize that. Some people simply take it too seriously, while others are just trying to have some fun. I think the real insights into people's RL personalities can be found based on how they post on the forums, not how they play the game. -Grid
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:16:00 - [33] Seems that a game with no "bad guys" would be pretty boring. If we were all on the same side vs only NPCs this game would be a lot less fun. Your role in the game doesn't define who you are in real life. If you're an ***** in real life, you'll probably be an *** in game, but that applies to so-called "carebears" and "griefers" equally. Trust me, I've met and dealt with some real jackhole carebears. Your role in the game has nothing to do with your personality or proclivities in real life. Need a covops or scout? Recruit me!**
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:19:00 - [34] I'm a right arse in real life and on the forums, but a nice guy in the game, try and figure THAT out Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Renosha Argaron Caldari IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:26:00 - [35] We all know its just a game, but to a degree it's not....people seem to be very blasT by saying "It's just a game" to justify there rudeness and lack of morals to others ingame, personaly i treat people on eve as im would treat someone in RL. People seem to think its ok to tell someone in chat to "F-off you carebear" or belittle what they have to say on forums, and far worse, and then turn around and say "Its just a game" well my question to those who say that is, would you answer your telephone or front door to someone you did'nt know in that manner?...you seem to forget your interacting with REAL people on a daily basis, not just a char, as more people on eve are NOT roleplayers, just people wanting to chat and play with there space ships with friends. As for the moral and ethical side of how people behave....i would have to agree with a previous post when they said that if you behave like a knob in game then its usualy the case that you are actualy a knob in RL also, your just more upfront about it when the personal element is taken away from you and your behind your PC screen's out of sight of the people your being rude to. Anyway thats my opinion and i stand by it....lol Regards Renosha
Stalac	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:31:00 - [36] Youre right its just a game, in all honesty however i fail to understand the joy of destroying or leeching off something, even if it is a virtual world, the people in it are still real. However judging by many of the sarcastic, condescending and insulting posts i can see i am in the minority, another great thing ive learnt is that a high IQ doesn't necessarily make for a nice person, thanks for the education :)
Renosha Argaron Caldari IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:33:00 - [37] Originally by: Stalac Youre right its just a game, in all honesty however i fail to understand the joy of destroying or leeching off something, even if it is a virtual world, the people in it are still real. However judging by many of the sarcastic, condescending and insulting posts i can see i am in the minority, another great thing ive learnt is that a high IQ doesn't necessarily make for a nice person, thanks for the education :) very well said
PhantomVyper Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Stalac Youre right its just a game, in all honesty however i fail to understand the joy of destroying or leeching off something, even if it is a virtual world, the people in it are still real. However judging by many of the sarcastic, condescending and insulting posts i can see i am in the minority, another great thing ive learnt is that a high IQ doesn't necessarily make for a nice person, thanks for the education :) You got of easy, trust me mate! Most harsh replies that you got are because of the amount of threads like these that we go through. And you also got some decent and constructive replies to your queries, if you agree with them or not, its another matter. As for your original premise: send me an EVEmail in about a year or so (assuming you and I are still playing that is), and I'm willing to bet all my ISK that you will have changed your opinions of pirates and carebears in this game...
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:40:00 - [39] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 02/01/2008 16:42:59 Originally by: Idhan Originally by: SoftRevolution Edited by: SoftRevolution on 02/01/2008 15:33:52 That's a stupid comparison really. You're assuming that the motivations and outcomes for ingame griefing are the same as for out of game crime. actually i was putting forward the possible suggestion that a desire to grief ingame may be linked to a desire to grief in real life. If I grief someone in a computer game what I am doing is adversely effecting their leisure time. There's no real damage being done. Worst case scenario for them they'll log in a huff and go do something else. What I get out of it is the satisfaction of winding someone up. I haven't done any real harm to them. If they consider that I have they have real problems with perspective. You get the satisfaction of winding some one up, why? Unless you're limiting your enquiry to crime of a similar nature it's not a good question to ask. Can you think of any crimes of a similar nature? not crimes, but i can think of similar actions, petty bullying in a work enviroment for example. Your comparison only works if you see someone's internet spaceshps as being the same as their real property which is obviously a tad idiotic. Considering people pay to play the game, and spend loads of time doing so, (and as any eve citizen will tell me time is money)you could consider their ships as their property, its not that idiotic, see? unlike yourself i managed to answer you without calling you names, or implying youre an idiot :) Quote: cant help but wondering if those who steal and delight in ill gotten gain would love to do so in real life, if only they were'nt scared of the law, or judgment of their peers. You mention crime quite specifically in your first post and as I said you appear to be assuming similar motivations for griefing ingame and crime out of crime. There's any number of possible explanations for antisocial behaviour in real life ranging from low grade brain damage, too much testosterone, genetic tendancies to poor upbringing to class struggle to "some people are just evil". As far as I can tell from my admitedly very limited reading around the subject there's no real concensus or generalised account of movitvation for all unpleasant behaviour. Workplace bullying has real outcomes. People are stuck working with you. Workplace bullying also leads to lawsuits and unpleasantness of that nature if left unchecked. It also increases absenteeism and employee turnover. So that's tangible financial harm. Physical harm too if you buy into the idea that it causes stress. I get satisfaction from winding people up because I am human. It's a computer game. If you don't enjoy time you spend playing it, you probably shouldn't be playing it. People spend time mining or missioning for their internet spaceships for fun, voluntarily, in an environment where no bones are made about the potential for that work to be wiped out under particular circumstances. You may as well run around on a Counter-Strike server asking why you can't all get along and why everybodies got to be shooting at you I don't think you're an idiot. It's an interesting question. I just think you've framed it in a very sloppy manner and made some rather large generalisations and assumptions. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:43:00 - [40] Originally by: Neth'Rae Edited by: Neth''Rae on 02/01/2008 15:41:44 Playing Counterstrike or ... Uh-oh. As all of us media-educated people know, if you do play KILLER games you're most certainly a prime candidate for some random massacre! Even moreso, if your neighbors would call you "a nice, quiet, and polite person." I sure hope you're disgusting in RL for your sake and that of other people around you.
Damares Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:46:00 - [41] had a rather large discussion about this with the local carebears last night, ofcourse they came to the conclusion that we must be cowards in real life and bully's to pick on weaker enemies, which is pretty stupid considering we're at war with a merc corp, and 2 pvp corps totaling over 100 members and most evenings having gangs of 15+ including 4+ battleships versus 2 battleships.... but yeh, we're cowards with no ball's, and station jockeys for spending most of the day docked (staying online while you go out irl ftw?) im pretty sure i read some where about how people tend to act out opposite personalities online, but yeh, the local population of mission runners, miners and other industrialists has decided that we infact irl are big girly boys, oh and ofc we are 13 years old, and 8pm is past our bed time and other very clever clichT's
Drake Dracoli Incarnation of Evil	Posted - 2008.01.02 16:50:00 - [42] Edited by: Drake Dracoli on 02/01/2008 16:51:19 I think there's been alot more hostility towards PvPers and the "bad guys" partly because MMOs are starting to transmorgify from a simple games to simulations with real assests with value. When we start talking of ISK with real money value, I think that's where things get bad. Now people can definately say that I'm "stealing" or "destroying" someone else's livelihood. (I got this alot from the Chinese farmers). The term "griefer" has become so abused, many carebears use it to define ANYONE who conflicts with their plans or goals. I think this is due to all the carebear MMOs like WoW that have infulenced people's attitude towards adversity in MMOs. I've met plenty of victims who understand the nessecity of my role though. I often get into chats with these people where I give them tips about how not to get caught next time, such as staying away from warp in points at belts, stay aligned, etc. I've gotten alot of my hard work destroyed in front of my eyes before, and I've felt quite bummed about it, but you learn just to pick up and keep going at it. That's the beauty of EVE. ------ \o/ Raise thy weapons on this day Ye shall not die alone Fight and die; let valkyries fly For they shall take thee home!
Damares Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2008.01.02 17:09:00 - [43] Originally by: Drake Dracoli Edited by: Drake Dracoli on 02/01/2008 16:51:19 The term "griefer" has become so abused, many carebears use it to define ANYONE who conflicts with their plans or goals. I think this is due to all the carebear MMOs like WoW that have infulenced people's attitude towards adversity in MMOs. another of our conclusions, there is no such thing as a pirate, if someone kills you in non consensual pvp, they are not a pvp'er, not a pirate, theyre a griefer, a pirate is a person who goes around not shooting at people who dont want to fight because the second he does, he's a griefer
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.01.02 17:11:00 - [44] Originally by: Stakhanov I think it would be easier to profile people from their earliest years , when they're kids playing cops & robbers. While those playing cops will probably become productive members of the society , those inclined to play robbers should be closely watched , and turned to a therapist before they grow too strong a criminal mindset. If nothing is done , this seemingly innocent "playing" will in time turn them into hardened criminals. I do sense some sarcasm laced in this post, however to press this further if other people truly believe this is the case: If all the kids wanted to play Cops and no one wanted to be a robber in the game, what are they actually playing? Kids/cops hanging around with no real role to play in the game. Eve is the same. There are a multitude of roles to fill, and no one in the game dies anyway, even when podded. It's more in line with a cartoon than real life. Mind you, the people that really don't get it and start yelling at pirates and thieves.... those are the ones that are individuals worth worrying about. Getting so emotional about a game, and one they obviously have no idea of the overall content. <shakes head>
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2008.01.02 17:16:00 - [45] Originally by: Tortun Nahme I'm a right arse in real life and on the forums, but a nice guy in the game, try and figure THAT out Ditto :P --
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.02 17:24:00 - [46] yes every pirate in eve - in real life would gank your car if there were no cops or cameras nearby Trashed sig, Shark was here
Verone Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.02 17:27:00 - [47] Edited by: Verone on 02/01/2008 17:28:16 It's a common misconception that the people who play pirates, outlaws and PvPers in Eve are the scum of real life society. In the past I've been branded a many things I won't print here for fear of being smacked about by CCP, I've been told that I must have been scraped from the bottom of the barrel of life. I've also been accused of beating my children (I don't even have any), beating my dog, being a violent ruffian, who's probably been in and out of several correctional facilities in his short life. I've been told that I mug old people, and I'm generally the scum of the universe who'll do anything to get ahead in life, regardless of it's legality. I've had Cancer, AIDS, a slow painful death, death in a car crash, a plane crash, a bus crash, festering sores, death of my immediate family members, savage murder of my children and my own "violation" wished on me by people I've destroyed the assets of in this game. I'll repeat that last word... game. Then I come to the reality of the situation. I look at myself and my corp members that I play Eve with, all have suffered similar abuse from people. Myself? I'm a 23 year old Electrical Engineer. I live within the law, have a generally normal life, pay my taxes and take the trash out once a week to be collected. Among our ranks we have Police officers, members of the British and American Armed Forces, we have a Father and Son who play together, people who work in the media industry, people who work everyday 9-5 jobs and a mother who plays when her kids are at school. We've got teenagers as young as 14, and people as old as 40 playing, all together under one banner. All perfectly normal, level headed members of society. It always brings a smile to my face and I always find it ironic that we're branded with such harsh stereotypes by the very people that are wishing life shattering, and horrible events on us for destroying their Internet Spaceships. The defenitions I see of your two words are in fact the same things. We're all the same people, there's just different things happening on a subconscious level. For instance, the "outlaw" or "Pirate" works an average day, has an average life and comes home to Eve to express a differnt side, and release him or herself from an average lifestyle and daily routine. There's nothing wrong with that. Then you have the "Carebear" as the other half are branded. Those who come home and log in for the same reason, but feel that they should be safe, after spending their hard earned green stuff on their little pocket of hapiness, from any form of harm. It's when these two collide that the issues occur. The "Pirate" thinks "Okay, I'll kill this guy, take his stuff and make profit." The "Carebear" thinks "Why is this guy killing me, why is this allowed? Why is my effort wasted?" The "carebear" fails to realise that the "Pirate" is just as venerable to attack as he is, he simply doesn't decide to fight back. He also forgets the notion that what the "pirate" is doing is in fact a valid game tactic, and a valid profession, and that the "pirate" pays his way each month to play, just like he does. I think that's the difference in mentality, the "Pirates" are the people with the drive to actively fight, and take the risk. The "Carebears" are the ones who're happy with their PVE and lack of confrontation. It's when the "Carebears" get inquisitive, and jump into unsafe space that the issues start, and indeed when the abuse starts flying. Genreally those who're happy without confrontation will explode in a flurry of colorful abuse when the stress gets too much. I really never have come to understand why there's so much hate for a profession that's advertised in Eve's sales pitch, to be honest. Still, there'll always be the hate for Pirates and Outlaws, and there'll always be the demands of the forums for the banning of these terrible people. After all, Internet Spaceships are serious business. >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
Lord Gendor GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.02 17:35:00 - [48] I blow up internet spaceships and steal internet space bux because in real life I kill and steal but am afraid. Its defiantly not because it might be fun to make pubbies cry over internet spaceships.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:07:00 - [49] I think that this need to connect people's RL character with their characters in an lolinternetspaceshipgalacticempiregame says a lot about the people doing it. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:10:00 - [50] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske I think that this need to connect people's RL character with their characters in an lolinternetspaceshipgalacticempiregame says a lot about the people doing it. they are even softer than the average carebear? Trashed sig, Shark was here
Guilliman R Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:30:00 - [51] To each their own, noone's the same, so stop labeling people Oo. As for me, I'm a rather nice friendly person irl, bound by law, and ready to help those that need help. Protect those that cant protect themselves. I suppose it's just my nature to do the same in a game. I rather not pirate, even if it's just a game. I have a bit of contradictory feelings about it actually. One part of me says it's bad because it ruins other people's time. The other part says its how the game is designed. Doesn't mean I like it tho, but I accept it from a game's P.O.V. Eve would be horribly boring without pirates. Tho I must admit, in my opinion, there's "to much" of it focused around gank, rather then spank. I won't label people who play pirates and are annoying pain in the asses as scum irl. I will say those who complain and whine 24/7 are. Adapt. Get over it, it's the way the game was designed. I myself will hopefully once I have enough income and some more Sp hunt pirates in local low sectors. Even if I lose, it's got to be fun. Best time I ever had in eve was being chased by a gang trough 4 jumps before they got me. So pirates, don't you dare to change! Keep on hunting, for one day, you will become the hunted! ---sig---
Renosha Argaron Caldari IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:48:00 - [52] I dont think this is about what you DO in game as such, or blowing up ships and being at war with people, its more a case of how you act towards others. I know alot of Merc's and PVP players, even Roleplayers that dont act like A-Holes, its more about the anti-social element that some people bring to the game, and them blameing there behaviour on it being "just a game"....thats what i object to. We are interacting with one another on a daily basis out of Game and if we act in an anti-social manner it is unacceptable in most environment's, so why is it acceptable in eve and on the forums?. If your running around blowing up noobs/robbing people and generaly just griefing just for the sake of it and blaming it on game mechanics or roleplay then i seriously think there is something abnormal about that when i would say 90% of this game is all about social interaction. I guess some people just dont know how to be sociable these days or they just lack the social skills needed to interact with others, or they just are what they are and that being knobs. Anyway thats my view, you may not agree with it but i feel strongly about treating people with some degree of respect, dont forget that there are people on the other end of those char's your interacting with Regards Renosha
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:52:00 - [53] Originally by: Stalac Youre right its just a game, in all honesty however i fail to understand the joy of destroying or leeching off something, even if it is a virtual world, the people in it are still real. However judging by many of the sarcastic, condescending and insulting posts i can see i am in the minority, another great thing ive learnt is that a high IQ doesn't necessarily make for a nice person, thanks for the education :) Probably has something to do with a relative lack of empathy towards people outside one's sphere of associates. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
corroded	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:52:00 - [54] No, no relation what so ever between rl ppl and game ppl. Role-Playing Game .
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:57:00 - [55] Edited by: Richard Phallus on 02/01/2008 18:57:28 Originally by: corroded No, no relation what so ever between rl ppl and game ppl. Role-Playing Game Exception to this rule, LARP'ers and furies. --
Drake Dracoli Incarnation of Evil	Posted - 2008.01.02 19:08:00 - [56] Edited by: Drake Dracoli on 02/01/2008 19:08:43 Originally by: Cadiz Probably has something to do with a relative lack of empathy towards people outside one's sphere of associates. True. At least in the corps and alliance I've been in, there's a general attitude that anyone not our warm, loving family is not human and deserves to die. ------ \o/ Raise thy weapons on this day Ye shall not die alone Fight and die; let valkyries fly For they shall take thee home!
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.01.02 19:11:00 - [57] damn someone called the cops -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. mooooooo.
Tyn Tetro Vanquish Inc	Posted - 2008.01.02 19:29:00 - [58] Edited by: Tyn Tetro on 02/01/2008 19:30:02 Originally by: Stalac Youre right its just a game, in all honesty however i fail to understand the joy of destroying or leeching off something, even if it is a virtual world, the people in it are still real. However judging by many of the sarcastic, condescending and insulting posts i can see i am in the minority, another great thing ive learnt is that a high IQ doesn't necessarily make for a nice person, thanks for the education :) This is a PVP game, everything revolves around blowing things up especially the economy Would you play counterstrike/halo/call of duty etc and refuse to shoot people?
tek tek Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.02 21:10:00 - [59] Originally by: Stalac Youre right its just a game, in all honesty however i fail to understand the joy of destroying or leeching off something, even if it is a virtual world, the people in it are still real. However judging by many of the sarcastic, condescending and insulting posts i can see i am in the minority, another great thing ive learnt is that a high IQ doesn't necessarily make for a nice person, thanks for the education :) Most posts I see like this comes from frustration with in the game. Someone getting hammered because they were unprepared or unaware of the basic concept of this game. You see it all the time. The new guy playing foot ball gets leveled going out for a pass. He jumps up, (if he can) and complains "thats no fair" and "don't you feel bad for doing that?" Sounds silly doesn't it. Every one knows the game is brutal, fast paced and unforgiving. But still you have people trying it out, and as soon as they get hurt..it becomes a social injustice. The thing about this game is that you do not have to be here. Yes you pay to play but you are not locked in, and you do have an alternate option. And no I don't want your stuff. When I read about someone who complains about the moral issue of a game he/she is not forced to play..yet banters about the value of the ships in relation to the cost of subscription, blows my mind. The only time "cost" and "moral" should be in the same debate is when there is a discussion of you selling out. Lead follow or get the hell out of the way!
Nova Red	Posted - 2008.01.02 23:04:00 - [60] I agree with the roleplaying aspect and I also agree that without the consequences in place for ill doer's here in RL. This same activity would be going on moreso in RL. I say CCP needs to get more creative in the consequences for say Ganking folks in .5 or above. I say incarcerate them for a set period in an in game prison where all they can do is train skills. Then they will really have to consider their actions in areas where those who choose to be care bears can enjoy the game. If they venture .4 or below then there is your prey have fun. Also the care bears should get a little more defensive beef added to non combat ships so that they at least have some chance. I used to play a game back a few year ago and I was a miner. People stops trying to gank me after I blew them up a few times. I think pirates are necessary in game however, I feel that many if not most exploit game mechanics and CCP needs to ***** down on the reasons for doing these exploits. They will not because it is upping their subscriptions and making money via game time cards. Peace or War depends how you take things
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Unholy Crusader Mining Corp	Posted - 2008.01.02 23:40:00 - [61] Originally by: Lorz0r well being in the armed forces i've thought if i could shoot someone and the answer is yeah i could. but not for phat lootz though ;( what armed forces are you in? obviously not american or british forces thats for sure.
Karma Vortex Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.03 00:09:00 - [62] I once scammed/exploited a few people out of several million isks (before BSs were common) ... felt like crap afterwards so petitioned myself and had a GM return the cash and the day after the exploit I'd used was fixed. i think my name had something to do with it.
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.01.03 00:26:00 - [63] Edited by: Stakhanov on 03/01/2008 00:26:57 Originally by: Verone In the past I've been branded a many things I won't print here for fear of being smacked about by CCP, I've been told that I must have been scraped from the bottom of the barrel of life. I've also been accused of beating my children (I don't even have any), beating my dog, being a violent ruffian, who's probably been in and out of several correctional facilities in his short life. I've been told that I mug old people, and I'm generally the scum of the universe who'll do anything to get ahead in life, regardless of it's legality. Heh ! Reminds me of this , Tobias Sjodin got the best hatemail ever
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.03 00:27:00 - [64] as a pirate i have to remind you that i like to kill and pillage and i routinely sell illegal consumables in real life Trashed sig, Shark was here
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.03 01:24:00 - [65] It's a game. After my pixels get done killing your pixels I log off and read "Where The Wild Things Are" to my son in hopes he will be sadly affected and murder your kids pixels in 10 years time . It's a game. Play it whatever way makes you happy "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Jonis Sinmaker Caldari Advanced Response Division G Thanks Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:45:00 - [66] Edited by: Jonis Sinmaker on 03/01/2008 02:45:09 Originally by: RuleoftheBone It's a game. After my pixels get done killing your pixels I log off and read "Where The Wild Things Are" to my son in hopes he will be sadly affected and murder your kids pixels in 10 years time . It's a game. Play it whatever way makes you happy You sir just won at eve....someone give this guy a cookie -------- Semper Fi, Jonis Sinmaker
Siriyana Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2008.01.03 03:03:00 - [67] Uhm, I think you may be reading too much into this, Stalac. ;) EVE is a game. To me, it's an extremely complicated, multi-faceted game of chess with multiple players. I play for the challenge. Sometimes I like walking over an easy opponent, sometimes I like walking over a hard one. I don't blow up ships and destroy haulers or miners in low sec because I have anger problems and I don't "have the balls" to do it in real life; they're just pieces on the board of a game that I'm playing. I'm not roleplaying here; I'm just playing a game by the rules of the game which are thankfully fairly loose. ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
Malicious Afterthought PRIDE OF THE BLACK JOKE	Posted - 2008.01.03 03:03:00 - [68] I just hate Verone as he gets his trash collected once a week and mine gets taken once a fortnight. That is all.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.01.03 03:16:00 - [69] I find it continually amusing that 'carebear' type people continue to instigate posts like the OPs. Furthermore, all the violent, vicious hateful mail that I get is from 'carebears' and their ilk. When I kill another pirate and/or PVP oriented person in Eve, I rarely if ever get any sort of hatemail, or if I do, it's something along the lines of 'I'll get you back' which IMO isn't hatemail, but just a continuation of the conflict, in comparison to 'OMG I HATE YOU YOU ####### I HOPE YOU DIE AND GET RAPED IN THE ###' like the majority of the mail is. What kind of person has so much pent up anger and violence that they feel compelled to write this kind of stuff to another human being? Generally speaking I think that carebears have the highest number of mentally malformed individuals in all of Eve. I have had thousands of evemails to support this theory. Someone prove me wrong. I don't see it happening. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
jongalt	Posted - 2008.01.03 03:21:00 - [70] bellum, unless you are going to start citing specific passages of freud, or lacan then your "anecdotal evidence" is just that - not credible enough to support any kind of psychological profile. but perhaps your "fear of castration" (see Freud) is the reason why you continually act the way you do in post after post. -jg.
Dex Nederland Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.03 03:54:00 - [71] I think a difference is the reward and what the two 'different' kinds of players are looking for. The "PvPer" is rewarded with immediate gratification of spaceship blowing up and looting what remains. Two PvPers going at both get satisfaction out of the fight regardless of who wins, they both got to shoot at someone and there was bright lights. The "Carebear" is not looking for the same immediate reward, but instead looking to largely expand their own wallet or increase their standing. When they lose a ship it has the opposite effect from the "PvPer", it is the opposite of reward for the "Carebear". Thus why the "Carebear" experiences grief when the "PvPer" attacks them. The PvPers reward is in direct conflict with the Carebears. I think part of the 'problem' is that "immoral" actions in Eve do lack a significant downside to persuade most participates from doing committing those immoral acts.
Johnny Havoc	Posted - 2008.01.03 10:38:00 - [72] Oddly enough, one of the worst (best?) griefers in Eve that I know of is my younger sister. I RL she is a 5'4" personage of friendly cuteness. All that goes straight out the window the second she logs in... Don't shoot me, Sissy
Whineroy	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:02:00 - [73] It is one thing to be a "professional" player pirate in Eve and consider one's playing style to be one amongst many, that's just playing the game. However, some pirates (I wouldn't even call them "pirates" but "gankers") seem to have desperate need to "win" over other humans (it has to be other humans, otherwise they would be playing a single-player game) and to "win" by any means possible. It isn't about the challenge of facing intelligent human foes instead of facing all-too-predictable stupid NPCs... No, it is only about "pwning" other humans while having minimal risk oneself. If Eve really was "only a game and nothing more" like some people insist, those gankers would get their easy-win kicks by playing some SP game with cheat codes or similar, just that they cannot feel that they "win" unless they know that other humans "lose". At other end of spectrum are those "carebears" who consider their in-game property to be as valuable as RL property, and who throw temper tantrums at "stupid pirates" even when they lose their property to their own sheer stupidity (like hauling hundreds of millions in valuables through Caldari space while AFKing in T1 hauler)... Like gankers, such carebears have forgotten that this is a game but instead see Eve as somewhat an extension of RL. Of course, both of these two kinds of extremist players never admit doing anything wrong, and instead keep blaming "cowardly carebears" or "stupid griefers" for everything that goes wrong. Basic psychology really, it is very hard if not impossible for a human to admit that he has done something wrong or is having problems.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services The Acquisition	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:08:00 - [74] Yesterday I ganked two Harbingers, a Drake, an Apoc, and two haulers in lowsec. From this, I only felt disappointment that all the good loot popped. This clearly indicates that I am, in fact, a mass murdering psychopath that lurks in dark alleyways waiting to jump the first helpless innocent that walks by. My dislike of gateguns hints at deep-seated feelings of resentment for society and the enforcement of principles not compatible with my own. Running from a carrier later that night indicates an overpowering fear of the enforcement of authority upon my being, stifling my freedom. My industrial alt working tirelessly to speed production to keep corp mates in ships represents a repressed desire to fit in with society, but as the ships are inevitably used to crush the innocent into oblivion to fuel my mighty kill/death ratio, it's clear that this naive perspective is flawed due to the harsh reality of the world. The occasional mission demonstrates my ability to work for the greater good of a community so long as it profits me directly. My Eve account is a metaphor for existence on the physical plane, and my billing information hints at a meaning beyond the mundane in our presence on this Earth. CCP is representative of intelligent design of the world, and so from Eve we can even gain insight into the metaphysical and the spiritual. Because it's an RPG, it's essentially equivalent to the real world, and so I'll leave you to draw philosophical conclusions from that. I'm gonna YAAAARRRRR some lowsec mission runners for lulz and faction loot.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:19:00 - [75] Originally by: Whineroy It is one thing to be a "professional" player pirate in Eve and consider one's playing style to be one amongst many, that's just playing the game. However, some pirates (I wouldn't even call them "pirates" but "gankers") seem to have desperate need to "win" over other humans (it has to be other humans, otherwise they would be playing a single-player game) and to "win" by any means possible. It isn't about the challenge of facing intelligent human foes instead of facing all-too-predictable stupid NPCs... No, it is only about "pwning" other humans while having minimal risk oneself. If Eve really was "only a game and nothing more" like some people insist, those gankers would get their easy-win kicks by playing some SP game with cheat codes or similar, just that they cannot feel that they "win" unless they know that other humans "lose". At other end of spectrum are those "carebears" who consider their in-game property to be as valuable as RL property, and who throw temper tantrums at "stupid pirates" even when they lose their property to their own sheer stupidity (like hauling hundreds of millions in valuables through Caldari space while AFKing in T1 hauler)... Like gankers, such carebears have forgotten that this is a game but instead see Eve as somewhat an extension of RL. Of course, both of these two kinds of extremist players never admit doing anything wrong, and instead keep blaming "cowardly carebears" or "stupid griefers" for everything that goes wrong. Basic psychology really, it is very hard if not impossible for a human to admit that he has done something wrong or is having problems. Simply LOL . Which part of "it's a game" do you not understand? CCP created a game-not some wierd extension of real life. Games are for education, entertainment, and competition either versus the game itself (AI-such as it is in EvE) or other players. Competition means there will always "winners" and "losers"-ingame. That has no reflection on any indivdual's real life. All of this pseudo-psychology is babble and false assumptions. Re-read Verone's post. As a side note...I think this sort of thread pops up every time some pilot buys ISK for cash and loses a tenner jumping around unscouted . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.03 12:25:00 - [76] "As a side note...I think this sort of thread pops up every time some pilot buys ISK for cash and loses a tenner jumping around unscouted!" This, basically. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.01.03 13:35:00 - [77] Originally by: Verone I really never have come to understand why there's so much hate for a profession that's advertised in Eve's sales pitch, to be honest. Still, there'll always be the hate for Pirates and Outlaws, and there'll always be the demands of the forums for the banning of these terrible people. After all, Internet Spaceships are serious business. my theory is - there are too many people that don't realize the difference between an in-game-character and an out-of-game-character - partly to the fact that there's no cleancut-differenc between the both, partly to the lack of knowledge what "playing a game" actually means. playing a game means playing it by the rules. if the rule say: PvP is not tied to some sort of consensus, attacking some unarmed/unprepared player is in no way breaking ANY rule of the game. yes, you can say "this rule is bad. this rule doesn't keep the non-combat-players in mind. etc." but then the game (and it's ruleset) should be criticised, not the other players playing by the rules. what people often forget in EVE is, that even if it's a sandbox type of game there are rules - rules regarding game mechanics (like: exploiting bugs and non-intendend "features"), rules regarding player interaction on a meta-level (like: what kind of behaviour is allowed in chat-channels/the forum ... here's the difference between IG & OOG-character a minimum), rules regarding player interaction on an in-game level (like: shooting people, selling stuff etc.) so the players who think someone that likes other players things go boom is a bad person, should reconsider what they are actually doing. insulting and threating other players just because you lost some pixels makes you more of the things you accuse others, than their "playing the game by the rules" ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Atreides Horza No Fear Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.01.03 13:59:00 - [78] The thoughts and concerns of the original poster isn't nearly as scary as the thought of the general eve populace potentially being as ******** as they seem on these boards in real life. A pirate in EVE is no more a sociopath than a horror fiction writer is a sick and twisted murderer when he writes about serial killers. EVE is a game - and while I'm sure there's the odd f*ck up in the mix here and there - the rest of humanity should be perfectly capable of discerning between who they are in real life and what they become in online games. God, I can't believe ppl are actually arguing this...
Cruthensis Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:25:00 - [79] I agree that it's more about how you speak to others in the game rather than whether you're a pirate or carebear. When someone sends an aggressive mail to *you* as a player, not just you're character, then the content reflects their RL character. The argument that your play-style alone is reflective of your RL character is diminished by those players who successfully play a low-sec pirate and a miner/industrial at the same time. When you're playing chess against someone, you don't avoid taking their pieces because you're a 'nice guy'. If you do, you just lose at chess and it's no longer a real contest. I think the same applies here. 1. Buy Vexor 2. Fit for Gank 3. Suicide ISK farmer 4. Grind sec 5. see 1.
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2008.01.03 15:33:00 - [80] MMO's and the internet allow people's true selves to come out just like in any anonymous situation. We've all seen people rush in and take a seat on the bus before the old lady or pregnant woman can get to it. These people would never do that if their friends or family were with them. Or people who will rudely cut you off in the highway for no good reason or won't hold the elevator door for you, but would not act that way if, say, their mother was with them. People's true selves come out and I think it's very revealing. That being said, just because someone pvp's or blows up your ship is not indicative that their true self is some kind of jerk. There is a big difference. I've found most people in Eve, from carebears to pirates to be decent people, but yes there certainly are the asshats who, I have no doubt, are revealing their true selves because they have an anonymous opportunity to do so. He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Arvald Caldari House of Tempers Long Distance Serial Killlers	Posted - 2008.01.03 15:40:00 - [81] Originally by: Taua Roqa I am much better behaved in EvE than real life, afterall it takes a lot more than a database manager to ban you from RL! yeah im not a bad person in rl im actually a very nice helpful guy, the only reason i scam in eve is it allows me to flex my mental muscle, outwitting people to get their isk and items is good fun --------------------------- Originally by: Last Wolf I prefer smartass, but I like some variety now and then.
Paeniteo	Posted - 2008.01.03 16:05:00 - [82] In game I have no moral issues with anything inside the mechanics. My actions in game in no way reflect any desire to do similar things in real life. I recognize the complete unimportance of eve assets, which makes the destruction and theft of them easy, and the loss of them just as insignificant. If you throw some kids in a room with a bunch of nerf guns, they're going to pick them up and shoot at each other. That doesn't mean that any of them have a repressed desire to shoot people. They are playing. So are we. Some people tend to forget that and go a bit psycho when bad stuff happens to them in the game, just like some kids on the playground throw a tantrum when play doesn't go their way.
Ashley Sky Mesopotamia iMune Empire	Posted - 2008.01.03 16:49:00 - [83] Originally by: Paeniteo In game I have no moral issues with anything inside the mechanics. My actions in game in no way reflect any desire to do similar things in real life. I recognize the complete unimportance of eve assets, which makes the destruction and theft of them easy, and the loss of them just as insignificant. If you throw some kids in a room with a bunch of nerf guns, they're going to pick them up and shoot at each other. That doesn't mean that any of them have a repressed desire to shoot people. They are playing. So are we. Some people tend to forget that and go a bit psycho when bad stuff happens to them in the game, just like some kids on the playground throw a tantrum when play doesn't go their way. Well said. I couldn't agree more.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.01.03 17:41:00 - [84] Disgruntled carebears often compare killing/stealing/being a generally bad person in Eve to being the same kind of person in RL. It's not like that. It's a freaking game, like poker. And people who play poker often lose a lot more "loot" than you do in Eve when your ship goes boom. The purpose of games throughout centuries has been to defeat others who play the game. Like Chess, or Poker, or Monopoly.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.03 18:06:00 - [85] Edited by: Janu Hull on 03/01/2008 18:06:51 Originally by: Atreides Horza A pirate in EVE is no more a sociopath than a horror fiction writer is a sick and twisted murderer when he writes about serial killers. And then there's Hunter Thompson... Seriously, it is a bad premise. I have met people who are legitimate griefers who are both PvPers and Carebears alike. You don't have to press F1-F8 to grief someone, billions of ISK a day are lost to griefers of the fuzzy variety in EVE. Would anyone making this claim of online psychosis care to diagnose their pathology? Same crap, different buttons being pushed. In sum: Not all PvPers are griefers, not all griefers PvP. You cannot even remotely begin to paint with a brush that broad without looking like a complete fracking idiot. Its just their place on the virtual food chain. Carebears feed on NPCs and asteroids, Pirates feed on Carebears, Player alliances feed on pirates (from time to time).
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2008.01.03 19:10:00 - [86] hm.. i had a thought about it... strangely enough i don't like the ship to ship pvp side of eve very much, but if i could convince someone to buy a shuttle of me for 1 billion isk i would have no problems with that... and prolly laugh in his face for beeing such a stoopid noob... So apparently deep down inside i'm not such a nice boy afterall... CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Renosha Argaron Caldari IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.03 19:30:00 - [87] Originally by: Kruel Disgruntled carebears often compare killing/stealing/being a generally bad person in Eve to being the same kind of person in RL. It's not like that. It's a freaking game, like poker. And people who play poker often lose a lot more "loot" than you do in Eve when your ship goes boom. The purpose of games throughout centuries has been to defeat others who play the game. Like Chess, or Poker, or Monopoly. Well would you knock your opponent's chess pieces of the board or tare up your cards in a game of poker while playing if you did'nt get your way? or maybe call your opponent an F-ing chess playing carebare?.....its not the game that we are debaiting here....its how it's played and how you interact with others thats the problem. To many people defend there anti-social behaviour by saying "Its Just A Game"....well your not the only person that's playing the game, your interacting with others and there game time and forum opinion's are just as relivent as your's are, when you have people on the forum's flaming, and people in game griefing for the sake of it, it no longer becomes "Just A Game" but it becomes an insight in to there social skills and to say that it does not reflect on there RL perona is ridicules....it clearly says alot about the person behind the PC screen. Im not saying that these people are criminals or potential killers, but there clearly has to be something anti-social within them to act like they do within an internet chat enviroment, maybe its the fact that they dont seem to realise that they are actualy dealing with REAL people on the other side of there PC screens and not just an NPC generated Char thats the problem. We tend to judge people on there actions and your actions online say just as much about you as a person as it does about you in RL...As humans we have a natural instinct for conflict, but also as humans we have the ability to reason, this is the internet, and as such we have a responsibility to act in an appropriate social manner towards one another, just as we have a responsibility in RL not to act in an anti-social manner...its all relevant. So in my oppinion for what its worth, Its not just a game, its social interaction on a large scale,no matter what role you claim to play, your actions have an effect on others and there is no justification for serious anti-social behaviour. Regards Renosha
Gealbhan Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.01.03 19:38:00 - [88] It's a game. In a stable mind it should have no effect whatsoever on your real life actions when you log out, not like This "Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium.
tek tek Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:19:00 - [89] Originally by: Renosha Argaron Originally by: Kruel Disgruntled carebears often compare killing/stealing/being a generally bad person in Eve to being the same kind of person in RL. It's not like that. It's a freaking game, like poker. And people who play poker often lose a lot more "loot" than you do in Eve when your ship goes boom. The purpose of games throughout centuries has been to defeat others who play the game. Like Chess, or Poker, or Monopoly. Well would you knock your opponent's chess pieces of the board or tare up your cards in a game of poker while playing if you did'nt get your way? or maybe call your opponent an F-ing chess playing carebare?.....its not the game that we are debaiting here....its how it's played and how you interact with others thats the problem. To many people defend there anti-social behaviour by saying "Its Just A Game"....well your not the only person that's playing the game, your interacting with others and there game time and forum opinion's are just as relivent as your's are, when you have people on the forum's flaming, and people in game griefing for the sake of it, it no longer becomes "Just A Game" but it becomes an insight in to there social skills and to say that it does not reflect on there RL perona is ridicules....it clearly says alot about the person behind the PC screen. Im not saying that these people are criminals or potential killers, but there clearly has to be something anti-social within them to act like they do within an internet chat enviroment, maybe its the fact that they dont seem to realise that they are actualy dealing with REAL people on the other side of there PC screens and not just an NPC generated Char thats the problem. We tend to judge people on there actions and your actions online say just as much about you as a person as it does about you in RL...As humans we have a natural instinct for conflict, but also as humans we have the ability to reason, this is the internet, and as such we have a responsibility to act in an appropriate social manner towards one another, just as we have a responsibility in RL not to act in an anti-social manner...its all relevant. So in my oppinion for what its worth, Its not just a game, its social interaction on a large scale,no matter what role you claim to play, your actions have an effect on others and there is no justification for serious anti-social behaviour. Regards Renosha As far as the example above. I have seen on TV poker championships where the verbal smacking was just as rough or maybe stronger than anything i find in these forums or in game. Chess tourneys with subtle but very effective communications to unsettle his opponent. And yes I have seen some the greats clear a chess board sending the pieces and clock skipping across the floor. American football, Rugby, Soccer, tennis, golf...I could go on and on of the "games" people play and watch, that include all of the same basic ingredients that is in this game. And all the participants are all aware that it can a brutal and very unforgiving situation. And they also know that not all social interaction will be friendly or agreeable. And they all say....its a part of the game. So to call an entire group of peoples anti-social from behind a PC screen is also irresponsible. To point your finger and render your judgment on others because you "feel" that you are socially and morally obligated to do so is wrong. It is the same as flaming someone on the forums and or smacking them in local. The only difference is you are using another method. You are doing the exact same thing, you are just delivering "your" flaming and smacking in a different fashion. Lead follow or get the hell out of the way!
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:32:00 - [90] Chess tourneys with subtle but very effective communications to unsettle his opponent. And yes I have seen some the greats clear a chess board sending the pieces and clock skipping across the floor. American football, Rugby, Soccer, tennis, golf...I could go on and on of the "games" people play and watch, that include all of the same basic ingredients that is in this game. And all the participants are all aware that it can a brutal and very unforgiving situation. And they also know that not all social interaction will be friendly or agreeable. And they all say....its a part of the game. this is a very bad analogy to what goes on in eve. eve like mmorpgs in general allows for complete annonymity of the players. you can be the biggest assclown you can manage and there will be no consequences to you for doing so. in all the examples there is no anonymity and there are consequences for breaking the rules. if you really want to know who a person is you need to watch them when they are free from consequences. this will speak loudly, clearly and in surprisingly little time.
Alowishus Cobra-Kai	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:37:00 - [91] I don't think it's entirely ridiculous to think that their is a correlation between the role people choose for themselves in a game and their real life. However, I do think it's highly ridiculous to think you can pigeonhole anyone or make specific and consistent comparisons between characters in a game and their owners. The diversity of people playing Eve dictates that you can't say, "if you're a pirate in Eve, you're a sociopathic teenage virgin in real life." Piracy has been glorified in our society in everything from "Star Wars" to "Pirates of the Caribbean" to alcoholic beverages to Eve itself. I don't think it's unnatural to gravitate toward something that's just, well, fun and interesting. It has little to do with hurting others and more to do with the fact that most fantasies are unrealistic and thus the draw. Face it, dabbling in piracy in real life is unrealistic. And whereas in real life there would be victims to think about, the reality is that in games there is not. There is no such thing as a victim in a game. I am not doing anyone any harm by blowing up their ship and podding them. They may not agree but then I suspect they're the one with issues. I have no desire to harm anyone, which is why it's great that Eve provides me with a venue to live out a fantasy pirate lifestyle where there are no victims. Cobra-Kai [SN4K3] recruitment.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:40:00 - [92] Hmmmmm... I honestly think it is hard to judge people by their in-game profession. There could be pirates who are really real life **hols but it is hard to say. One thing I have not seen in this thread is people who are claiming they are real life good citizens but in-game pirates stating their real life professions. I mean if they honestly say what is their in-game and real life professions then I think this thread has substance. They could state honestly state their in-game profession, real life profession, age group 16-20, 21-25, highest qualification, income group in local currencies USD0-USD10k pa then this thread would definitely be interesting. That is my honest opinion. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:43:00 - [93] Often people do stuff they could never do in real life in a game,ie if they are nice and a good person,they murder countless sheep in game,maybe to even relieve tension? Basically a high percentage of people are opposite of what they are in rl. Signature removed. Contains no Eve content. Navigator ([email protected])
Renosha Argaron Caldari IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:49:00 - [94] Originally by: tek tek As far as the example above. I have seen on TV poker championships where the verbal smacking was just as rough or maybe stronger than anything i find in these forums or in game. Chess tourneys with subtle but very effective communications to unsettle his opponent. And yes I have seen some the greats clear a chess board sending the pieces and clock skipping across the floor. American football, Rugby, Soccer, tennis, golf...I could go on and on of the "games" people play and watch, that include all of the same basic ingredients that is in this game. And all the participants are all aware that it can a brutal and very unforgiving situation. And they also know that not all social interaction will be friendly or agreeable. And they all say....its a part of the game. So to call an entire group of peoples anti-social from behind a PC screen is also irresponsible. To point your finger and render your judgment on others because you "feel" that you are socially and morally obligated to do so is wrong. It is the same as flaming someone on the forums and or smacking them in local. The only difference is you are using another method. You are doing the exact same thing, you are just delivering "your" flaming and smacking in a different fashion. But thats exactly my point....lol....as iv said...i know its a game...but what you do and how you play the game says alot about you as you have pointed out above....you mentioned a player knocking the chess board sending the pieces and clock skipping across the floor.....what does that say about that person?....thats all im saying.....your actions say alot about you regardless of what situation your in. And i never called an ENTIRE group of people anti-social...i said those who choose to act in an anti-social manner and blame there actions on it "Just being a game".....thats anti-social within this socialy based game. Anyway we can debate this topic all night/day/year and there will still be people who think its ok to act like a knob and blame it on "The Game", I myself choose not to, I like to treat people ingame as i would if i where standing with them face to face, but thats just me Regards Renosha
Alowishus Cobra-Kai	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:55:00 - [95] Originally by: Renosha Argaron I like to treat people ingame as i would if i where standing with them face to face That sounds incredibly boring. You're making the presumption that everyone plays Eve, or games in general, for the same reasons you do. Sorry, I don't play Eve to chat with folks about the weather. Cobra-Kai [SN4K3] recruitment.
Renosha Argaron Caldari IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:19:00 - [96] Edited by: Renosha Argaron on 03/01/2008 22:22:46 Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Renosha Argaron I like to treat people ingame as i would if i where standing with them face to face That sounds incredibly boring. You're making the presumption that everyone plays Eve, or games in general, for the same reasons you do. Sorry, I don't play Eve to chat with folks about the weather. lol...i play eve for fun, to chat to my m8's who also play and to blow things up,...lol....but while im doing that...i give people the respect they deserve, and i never said everyone should play the same way i do...your being very presumptuous, and slightly flaming me for stating an opinion, all iv said is that i feel the way people act in game reflects on there RL persona which it does, even if it reflects there total opposite side, it never the less says alot about them as people. And by that statement i DO NOT mean what career path they choose, to me that's not relivent, as iv also stated before, i know Pirates/Mercs that are really decent guys, they may rob people but they dont feel the need to be rude or anti-social while doing it.....its HOW THEY ACT while socializing with others in game that counts, thats what this thread is about, not what career path you choose in game. Regards Renosha
Alowishus Cobra-Kai	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:27:00 - [97] Originally by: Renosha Argaron it never the less says alot about them as people. Potentially, but I think you'll find inconsistent conclusions. The actions of one person are unlikely to say the same thing about them as the same actions by another person. Cobra-Kai [SN4K3] recruitment.
Downtym Amarr Middleton and Mercer LLP	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:32:00 - [98] Everything you create in EVE is meant for war; the minerals you refine, the ships you build, the guns you create, the bullets for the guns, the equipment for the ships, the fuel for the stations. Everything is meant as fuel for the flames of war. So don't pretend to be high minded when you're out mining veldspar for tritanium because that will be sold on the market and used to make a batch of guns for a battleship that will destroy someone else - or maybe even you. The industrialists, the traders, the market manipulators, and the fighters are all part of the same vast food chain. The creators supply the weapons and material for war while the fighters create the demand for the weapons and material by fighting the wars. If you join a PC corporation then you pay taxes that will go towards hiring mercenaries, paying pirates, or war dec'ing another group. Don't act high minded and above all of it just because you are one of the players who "build, create, and prospect". Without you, I wouldn't have the weapons to put on my ship to fight. If you're upset by the prospect of being destroyed or the destruction involved then perhaps you should take a look at your own contribution. The only "solution" would be to log off and stop contributing because the "problem" is the fundamental mechanic of the game.
Renosha Argaron Caldari IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:40:00 - [99] Edited by: Renosha Argaron on 03/01/2008 22:43:59 Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Renosha Argaron it never the less says alot about them as people. Potentially, but I think you'll find inconsistent conclusions. The actions of one person are unlikely to say the same thing about them as the same actions by another person. I dont judge one peron's behaviour based on another's action's no matter how simmilar....i treat people as individual's and judge them on there indevidual actions and behaviour, and thats the point i was making, your actions say alot about you even if its in a game or not, EvE has a very prevalent social aspect to it and people will judge you on how you act whither you like it or not, and i dont think you can blame that on the game, the game cant make someone act like a knob, the person themselfs choose to act that way. As iv said these are just my opinion's and i dont expect everyone to agree with them, i choose to play how i choose to play, thats my decision, and i choose to treat others like i want to be treated, as corny as it sounds....lol Regards Renosha
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:31:00 - [100] Originally by: Renosha Argaron Originally by: Kruel Disgruntled carebears often compare killing/stealing/being a generally bad person in Eve to being the same kind of person in RL. It's not like that. It's a freaking game, like poker. And people who play poker often lose a lot more "loot" than you do in Eve when your ship goes boom. The purpose of games throughout centuries has been to defeat others who play the game. Like Chess, or Poker, or Monopoly. Well would you knock your opponent's chess pieces of the board or tare up your cards in a game of poker while playing if you did'nt get your way? or maybe call your opponent an F-ing chess playing carebare?.....its not the game that we are debaiting here....its how it's played and how you interact with others thats the problem. To many people defend there anti-social behaviour by saying "Its Just A Game"....well your not the only person that's playing the game, your interacting with others and there game time and forum opinion's are just as relivent as your's are, when you have people on the forum's flaming, and people in game griefing for the sake of it, it no longer becomes "Just A Game" but it becomes an insight in to there social skills and to say that it does not reflect on there RL perona is ridicules....it clearly says alot about the person behind the PC screen. Im not saying that these people are criminals or potential killers, but there clearly has to be something anti-social within them to act like they do within an internet chat enviroment, maybe its the fact that they dont seem to realise that they are actualy dealing with REAL people on the other side of there PC screens and not just an NPC generated Char thats the problem... I think you're confusing different things here. Your examples are of people being jackasses in how they communicate and relate to others in the game and on the forums. Except in the rare cases it's roleplaying, I agree with you that it says something about their personalities and how they deal with anonymity...whether they're pirates, PvPers, industrialists, or mission runners--and I've seen downright -horrific- examples of all those groups doing it. But primarily what we've been talking about in this thread isn't communication, it's occupation. If somebody blows up my imaginary spaceship, that's no different to me than beating me in chess, cleaning me out in poker, or dunking on me in basketball. It's all part of the game, and a dark, violent universe, "the very essence of Darwinism" is painted in big letters on the package. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Arngorf Minmatar x13 When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:04:00 - [101] I love the hatemails I get.. and yes I have sadistic thoughts irl... but my familiy doesn't know __________________________________
Emily Evermore	Posted - 2008.01.04 02:17:00 - [102] Well what do you guys think of scammers and corp thieves? We once had a member in our corp for a year and half and one day he cleaned us out, banned us from our own ventrilo server, and blew up and podded one of our members with expensive implants. He was on vent with us for a year so we gave him the admin pass so he could kick strangers who squatted on our vent and have access to director channels. He was also a forum admin on our forum and he decided to just delete all the important threads. Would you still consider that "roleplaying" where is the line drawn?
Siriyana Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:12:00 - [103] Originally by: Renosha Argaron Originally by: Kruel Disgruntled carebears often compare killing/stealing/being a generally bad person in Eve to being the same kind of person in RL. It's not like that. It's a freaking game, like poker. And people who play poker often lose a lot more "loot" than you do in Eve when your ship goes boom. The purpose of games throughout centuries has been to defeat others who play the game. Like Chess, or Poker, or Monopoly. Well would you knock your opponent's chess pieces of the board or tare up your cards in a game of poker while playing if you did'nt get your way? or maybe call your opponent an F-ing chess playing carebare?.....its not the game that we are debaiting here....its how it's played and how you interact with others thats the problem. The rules of Poker don't make for allowances to tear up the cards. The rules of Chess don't make for allowances of knocking all the pieces off the board if you didn't get your way. A person indulging in a gank is just operating under the rules of the game. If someone is breaching EULA by swearing a lot or harassing, then there are rules to deal with that. Will I go after "easy" targets in low sec just as much as a hard target? Sure, why not? It's not as easy as it looks. Do you know how long you have to kill a destroyer or hauler on a gate in low sec before the guns eat through your Recon's tank? Not long. You also can't let your drones out for very long, or they get popped, and that costs money. It's honing your skills and your speed to do stuff like that, and that's why -I- do it. I can't answer for others. If I don't have time to loot the wreck after the kill because my tank is almost gone, I leave it. It's dangerous to do what I do, because somebody could jump in from the stargate or warp in from another direction and take me out very easily as I'm flashing red. ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
Siriyana Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:14:00 - [104] Originally by: Emily Evermore Well what do you guys think of scammers and corp thieves? We once had a member in our corp for a year and half and one day he cleaned us out, banned us from our own ventrilo server, and blew up and podded one of our members with expensive implants. He was on vent with us for a year so we gave him the admin pass so he could kick strangers who squatted on our vent and have access to director channels. He was also a forum admin on our forum and he decided to just delete all the important threads. Would you still consider that "roleplaying" where is the line drawn? That means you need better employment practices. ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:34:00 - [105] Originally by: Siriyana Originally by: Emily Evermore Well what do you guys think of scammers and corp thieves? We once had a member in our corp for a year and half and one day he cleaned us out, banned us from our own ventrilo server, and blew up and podded one of our members with expensive implants. He was on vent with us for a year so we gave him the admin pass so he could kick strangers who squatted on our vent and have access to director channels. He was also a forum admin on our forum and he decided to just delete all the important threads. Would you still consider that "roleplaying" where is the line drawn? That means you need better employment practices. Better employment practices would help only a small percentage of those type of cases. You may be able to tell who's likely to try scam you within 2 weeks of playing. But after many months? those type of people are nearly impossible to catch. Fear of real life consequences is what keeps most people in check, allows civil society and prevents anarchy. More accountability = better behavior on average. Personally, I wouldn't mind finding some of the people who act like real *****s and do unto them as they do unto others - steal some of their **, break their car, stuff they wouldn't be able to hold anyone accountable for.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:55:00 - [106] Originally by: Ephemeron Better employment practices would help only a small percentage of those type of cases. You may be able to tell who's likely to try scam you within 2 weeks of playing. But after many months? those type of people are nearly impossible to catch. Fear of real life consequences is what keeps most people in check, allows civil society and prevents anarchy. More accountability = better behavior on average. This is one theory about society. It's a theory that not everyone ascribe to. It's not a fact. Originally by: Ephemeron Personally, I wouldn't mind finding some of the people who act like real *****s and do unto them as they do unto others - steal some of their **, break their car, stuff they wouldn't be able to hold anyone accountable for. Stuff like this says more about a person than anything that happens in game. When a person starts making real life threats to the people who 'hurt' him in a game I would say that person is not one I would like to associate with. The odd thing is, I see more of this behaviour among the 'peaceful' citizens of the Eve universe then among the more 'yarry' types.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:03:00 - [107] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Ephemeron Personally, I wouldn't mind finding some of the people who act like real *****s and do unto them as they do unto others - steal some of their *, break their car, stuff they wouldn't be able to hold anyone accountable for. Stuff like this says more about a person than anything that happens in game. When a person starts making real life threats to the people who 'hurt' him in a game I would say that person is not one I would like to associate with. Word. * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:06:00 - [108] Well if you want an honest answer, the answer is yes our in game personalities do indeed reflect at least a portion of our real world personalities. Oftentimes a particular trait is often magnified in game that we have because we no longer have the cares of the world holding us back. If we were in similar circumstances in real life we would act similarly though. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:58:00 - [109] so if i like to play the market I should go look for work in the stock market
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.04 17:37:00 - [110] Edited by: Qui Shon on 04/01/2008 17:37:20 Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Ephemeron More accountability = better behavior on average. This is one theory about society. It's a theory that not everyone ascribe to. It's not a fact. The bit I left in the quote is a pretty damn strong correlation though, and life experience has done nothing but reaffirm that notion for me. I've yet to hear any better theories, maybe you have some you'd like to share? As for the common sense aspect, you only need to look at what happens when checks and accountabilty fade away, like in some third world countries or in some respects even when stuff like the flooding of New Orleans happens. Gangs run rampant and shoot at rescue workers, not just cops, to take an example fitting for EvE. What we'd call normal people in our ordered societies can so very very easily become real monsters. All that is needed is the right setting and incentives/deterrants. We can see it throughout history all over the world, just as well as we can see it in so many places right now. Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Ephemeron Personally, I wouldn't mind finding some of the people who act like real *****s and do unto them as they do unto others - steal some of their *, break their car, stuff they wouldn't be able to hold anyone accountable for. Stuff like this says more about a person than anything that happens in game. When a person starts making real life threats to the people who 'hurt' him in a game I would say that person is not one I would like to associate with. The odd thing is, I see more of this behaviour among the 'peaceful' citizens of the Eve universe then among the more 'yarry' types. Life* is just a game Empty threats got you jarred? No, but seriously, I'm not defending crap like that, I'd never do anything like it. Yet to me all it seems like is some kid throwing a tantrum. Why do his his words have any more bearing on real life then your actions in game? Call it metagaming if you want to stick to forum lingo. Some think metagaming is bad, others employ it as much as possible. Someone got hurt ingame, and they feel their only chance at some small measure of retaliation is through "out of pod" words. So what. It's only when words become RL action, of any kind, that it becomes a serious matter. ------------------- Like I've said before, jumping to conclusions about who would be the RL warlords brute if society were to brake down based on ingame actions is pretty shakey, nay, impossible to get right. Nevertheless, those who get their jollies making the other guys day worse, not just from winning a goodhearted competition... not from winning, but from making the other guy loose, those same people I think to a very high degree do the same irl. You may argue there is little difference, that they are merely two sides of the same coin. I'd answer that however thin the edge of that coin, the side you pick makes all the difference in the world. The scope and depth of the action and it's consequences, that are a result of that choice, is more dependant on environment then anything else. And yes, obviously all this is just a theory, an opinion.
Zathi Shaitan Minmatar Illiteracy Combatants	Posted - 2008.01.04 17:44:00 - [111] Originally by: Stalac As a new member to eve i have noticed these two words being used quite often Not likely, as the plural of "carebear" is "carebears". That is all.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:12:00 - [112] Originally by: Renosha Argaron Well would you knock your opponent's chess pieces of the board or tare up your cards in a game of poker while playing if you did'nt get your way? or maybe call your opponent an F-ing chess playing carebare?.....its not the game that we are debaiting here....its how it's played and how you interact with others thats the problem. To many people defend there anti-social behaviour by saying "Its Just A Game"....well your not the only person that's playing the game, your interacting with others and there game time and forum opinion's are just as relivent as your's are, when you have people on the forum's flaming, and people in game griefing for the sake of it, it no longer becomes "Just A Game" but it becomes an insight in to there social skills and to say that it does not reflect on there RL perona is ridicules....it clearly says alot about the person behind the PC screen. you do realize that most smack is done by carebears? Trashed sig, Shark was here
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:15:00 - [113] Originally by: Gealbhan It's a game. In a stable mind it should have no effect whatsoever on your real life actions when you log out, not like This just a game means - everything you did yesterday means nothing to you - most people dont play mmorpgs to have nothing more than they did this day last week why do people use extremes to justify their arguments? Trashed sig, Shark was here
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.05 15:43:00 - [114] Originally by: Zathi Shaitan Originally by: Stalac As a new member to eve i have noticed these two words being used quite often Not likely, as the plural of "carebear" is "carebears". That is all. the plural of carebear is sickening Trashed sig, Shark was here

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