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Lottery and winning number, whats your feeling?

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LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.02 22:30:00 - [1] Right'o, its no big secret that im doing something big, which has to do with lotteries. It will make it possible to create totally safe lotteries with little hassle. But eventually, in any lottery, a winner will have to be found. The automated system i have in mind, cant really take the winning numbers from the british lottery, which seems to be standard at this point. But i have alternatives. I have the option of using a random number generator which is intergrated in .NET. Or if somebody have an even better one, id love to use it. Whats your feelings about this?Is the british lottery the only way to go? Or is random number generators a valid autocome for a lottery? This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Halkin D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.02 22:46:00 - [2] i havent played one eve related lottery tbh (maybe just nothing i fancy or dont already have/can afford), but if was to play it would be backed up an offical nations bonus ball thingy Originally by: InigoMontoya - re: iMune alliance situation I would sue Concord for breach of contract, you paid the fees, where is your pew pew?
Miki Fin Gallente Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2008.01.02 22:49:00 - [3] How will you prove that the number which was randomly generated is the number that is published?
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.02 22:53:00 - [4] Originally by: Miki Fin How will you prove that the number which was randomly generated is the number that is published? Thats the thing, i REALLY cant, but having auditors check my code. I have a made a small piece of code, that use a standard number generator. It generates 15 numbers, and takes the average of them. Thats what i plan for using. Of course, the national ball thing is always a cookie cutter method. But its not really that automated as id like. This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.02 22:55:00 - [5] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 02/01/2008 22:56:20 The reason that public lottery numbers are used is because they can be verified independantly. If you are generating your own random numbers, then people need to be able to trust you to actually select the winner randomly and not arbitrally. It really comes down to trust.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.02 22:58:00 - [6] Originally by: Ki Tarra Edited by: Ki Tarra on 02/01/2008 22:56:20 The reason that public lottery numbers are used is because they can be verified independantly. If you are generating your own random numbers, then people need to be able to trust you to actually select the winner randomly and not arbitrally. It really comes down to trust. For all its worth, i like to think my name is enough. But also i will have third party people like Hexxx and Mr. Horizontal check the live code, to make sure its not rigged, if they volunteer(Im sure they will). Is that enough you think? This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Halkin D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.02 23:00:00 - [7] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Ki Tarra Edited by: Ki Tarra on 02/01/2008 22:56:20 The reason that public lottery numbers are used is because they can be verified independantly. If you are generating your own random numbers, then people need to be able to trust you to actually select the winner randomly and not arbitrally. It really comes down to trust. For all its worth, i like to think my name is enough. But also i will have third party people like Hexxx and Mr. Horizontal check the live code, to make sure its not rigged, if they volunteer(Im sure they will). Is that enough you think? i really doubt it tbh, people have a need to be suspicous in rl but even more of a reason in eve becuse everyone wants teh virtual monies :p Originally by: InigoMontoya - re: iMune alliance situation I would sue Concord for breach of contract, you paid the fees, where is your pew pew?
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.02 23:01:00 - [8] Originally by: Halkin Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Ki Tarra Edited by: Ki Tarra on 02/01/2008 22:56:20 The reason that public lottery numbers are used is because they can be verified independantly. If you are generating your own random numbers, then people need to be able to trust you to actually select the winner randomly and not arbitrally. It really comes down to trust. For all its worth, i like to think my name is enough. But also i will have third party people like Hexxx and Mr. Horizontal check the live code, to make sure its not rigged, if they volunteer(Im sure they will). Is that enough you think? i really doubt it tbh, people have a need to be suspicous in rl but even more of a reason in eve becuse everyone wants teh virtual monies :p What if we made Chribba do a small site which outputs a random number, and i use that for all lotteries? This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.02 23:16:00 - [9] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 02/01/2008 23:17:53 Originally by: LaVista Vista What if we made Chribba do a small site which outputs a random number, and i use that for all lotteries? Wouldn't it be just as easier to find an XML feed from a regular public lottery? Save Chribba the work. Thirty seconds on google and I found this site. There is no shortage of random numbers there and they can be independantly verified.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.02 23:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Ki Tarra Originally by: LaVista Vista What if we made Chribba do a small site which outputs a random number, and i use that for all lotteries? Wouldn't it be just as easy to find an XML feed from a regular public lottery? Save Chribba the work. Id love if you could point me in a direction of a such XML feed This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Miki Fin Gallente Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2008.01.02 23:20:00 - [11] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Ki Tarra Edited by: Ki Tarra on 02/01/2008 22:56:20 The reason that public lottery numbers are used is because they can be verified independantly. If you are generating your own random numbers, then people need to be able to trust you to actually select the winner randomly and not arbitrally. It really comes down to trust. For all its worth, i like to think my name is enough. But also i will have third party people like Hexxx and Mr. Horizontal check the live code, to make sure its not rigged, if they volunteer(Im sure they will). Is that enough you think? I've never heard of you before, nor the other 2 names. I'm sure I'm not the only one either.
jongalt	Posted - 2008.01.02 23:33:00 - [12] lavista, having the numbers verified independently is the best way towards the golden bridge of Trust. dropping names of "popular" forum posters from the marketing forums is only effective if people know who they are. and ill go out on a limb and say >your demographic< probably doesnt. its not a diss against them or you, but dont under-estimate the vanity and arrogance of any one forum poster to self-promote themselves. humility has its advantages. sometimes that includes "trust". gl with your lottery. im sure you will be successful. -jg.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.02 23:35:00 - [13] Originally by: jongalt lavista, having the numbers verified independently is the best way towards the golden bridge of Trust. dropping names of "popular" forum posters from the marketing forums is only effective if people know who they are. and ill go out on a limb and say >your demographic< probably doesnt. its not a diss against them or you, but dont under-estimate the vanity and arrogance of any one forum poster to self-promote themselves. humility has its advantages. sometimes that includes "trust". gl with your lottery. im sure you will be successful. -jg. You make a good point. I expect that people read the market discussion forum, or know about EBank. Its of course very arrogant of me. But yes, i see that the verified and independent number generator is definately the best way to go. Ill just need to find this. This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
jongalt	Posted - 2008.01.02 23:43:00 - [14] ki tarra has edited one of her posts above to include a link to an XML feed for the world's lotteries. this might be useful to you...? -jg.
Xera Mai	Posted - 2008.01.03 01:30:00 - [15] Edited by: Xera Mai on 03/01/2008 01:31:06 Quote: It generates 15 numbers, and takes the average of them. Thats what i plan for using. I know you've moved the conversation on to other ways to do this, but for reference, making lots of rolls and averaging them is a real no-no, as the number you generate will tend towards the centre of your range, giving next to no chance of ever rolling the extreme values. Your lottery -needs- to have an equal chance for each number to win. Also, computer-generated random numbers can be a little unrandom themselves, as they're generally based on sin waves when you get right down to it. No substitute for actually picking a name out of a hat :D
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.03 01:34:00 - [16] Originally by: LaVista Vista For all its worth, i like to think my name is enough. Who are you...? --- Latest Video : FAT- Camp
Mobius Amarr Bad Temper's	Posted - 2008.01.03 02:07:00 - [17] sorry rarely have i ever read the market forums
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.01.03 03:56:00 - [18] Originally by: Xera Mai Edited by: Xera Mai on 03/01/2008 01:31:06 Quote: It generates 15 numbers, and takes the average of them. Thats what i plan for using. I know you've moved the conversation on to other ways to do this, but for reference, making lots of rolls and averaging them is a real no-no, as the number you generate will tend towards the centre of your range, giving next to no chance of ever rolling the extreme values. Your lottery -needs- to have an equal chance for each number to win. Also, computer-generated random numbers can be a little unrandom themselves, as they're generally based on sin waves when you get right down to it. No substitute for actually picking a name out of a hat :D I see somebody beat me to it. Another method I've seen used is using the decimal digits of the DJIA close for a day. Using a national lottery winning number is probably best, though, as it can be verified by anyone easily. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.03 04:47:00 - [19] theres a online lotto system that eve-radio uses. may want to check with one of the DJ's to see where it is.
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.03 07:44:00 - [20] Stick to some number system that is far from your reach. A little piece of computer code run by you is....not necessarily something to be trusted. Even if you had the almighty Veld-"loving" Chribba do the number generation, there'd still be those who'd doubt. (and who's more well known and trusted than Chribba, eh?) Stick to numbers that no player can possibly interfere with, and you'll have fewer doubters. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Bilanto Gatejumper Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.03 08:13:00 - [21] I dont got a faintest idea about who you are or who any of the others you mention is, but as I understand that names are to be trusted you must of course trust me. I know me so everyone else should. Well. Enough about that. So: Whatever you do NEVER EVER do average numbering in a lottery. If I said: Guess a number then I toss this two dices and we see if the average is what you guessed. Then you would have correct 6/36 times if you choose 3.5 and 1/36 if you choose 1. so as you see the distribution is not even and then you can calculate whats got the best odds. Of course you would miss 5 of 6 times, but if the payout is 36 times what you bet it will still be a lot of money to pick out of that game. If you then take average number of 15 numbers you just make it even worse. And a third thing: When I bet, how should I know that your trustworthy anyway. If I bet that number 123 will be the winner and it is. How should I know that you don't turn around and say. Hey, you did not bet on that number. You said something else. Even if I can verify the numbers thru officials ways there is no way that I can trust you to give me what I have won.
Kryttos Caldari Hard Corp	Posted - 2008.01.03 09:42:00 - [22] ive been playing BIG Games lottery. out of about 6 entries. i won once. 625m so it seems BIG, at least, is honest
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:07:00 - [23] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Ki Tarra Originally by: LaVista Vista What if we made Chribba do a small site which outputs a random number, and i use that for all lotteries? Wouldn't it be just as easy to find an XML feed from a regular public lottery? Save Chribba the work. Id love if you could point me in a direction of a such XML feed Not looked at them but here are some RSS feeds of national lotteries. ---- Anything less is wasted effort
Mr Funkadelic Tenacious Danes Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:35:00 - [24] I vaugly remember the name LaVista Vista, he used to run some IPO that went down/bad whatever. Anyways, i would not use it unless i could check the outcome my self.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:59:00 - [25] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: LaVista Vista For all its worth, i like to think my name is enough. Who are you...? If you havent heard of EBank or CAP4U, then you wouldnt know about me. But im a regular on the market discussion forum, and have now handeled 40bill worth of public isk in different bonds/ipo's. Also i help do EBank. This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.03 12:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Xera Mai Edited by: Xera Mai on 03/01/2008 01:31:06 Quote: It generates 15 numbers, and takes the average of them. Thats what i plan for using. I know you've moved the conversation on to other ways to do this, but for reference, making lots of rolls and averaging them is a real no-no, as the number you generate will tend towards the centre of your range, giving next to no chance of ever rolling the extreme values. Your lottery -needs- to have an equal chance for each number to win. Also, computer-generated random numbers can be a little unrandom themselves, as they're generally based on sin waves when you get right down to it. No substitute for actually picking a name out of a hat :D Yeah, i just realised that after actually running it. Ill be looking to use those XML feeds :) This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Jade Grimpkin Grimpkin Independent Traders	Posted - 2008.01.03 12:02:00 - [27] i'd be happy to just pick a number for you. Look: 3, 12, 19, 34, 45, 46 see, easy, no hassle.
Soulja Caldari THEM. Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:07:00 - [28] Edited by: Soulja on 03/01/2008 14:14:36 I don't know if you have been provided with the XML feeds that you seek, or if the links contained here http://www.superpages.com/cities/lottery/index_rss.html are suitable as I haven't followed any of them... edit: yeah looks like someone beat me to it
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:16:00 - [29] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 03/01/2008 14:17:06 Guys Best answer is simplist - you want your customers to feel secure. You cannot make people feel confortable with a "insert random internet lotto gen". There is no brand name or focus and thats even true if there is no scam going on. Trusting joe random on internet with your money to audit a random lotto gen is like trusting Tuxford with balacing Amarr. So why do the hard work when real life lottries do that for you? People feel confident in a "insert high quality real life lotto name here" system and let them pick numbers for you. Heck, even if you are a scammer, people will think you are more honest and are less likely to perceive you doing a run. Why complicate something that is simple? Oh and here is 100% foolproof lotto scam plan Run honest lottery and if you alt looses - hand over prizes. This builds trust and just repeat ad infimitum. Or if you alt looses, keep prices and go on run. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Jonny JoJo [ Oh and here is 100% foolproof lotto scam plan Run honest lottery and if you alt looses - hand over prizes. This builds trust and just repeat ad infimitum. Or if you alt looses, keep prices and go on run. Problem just is that i wont be running any lottery myself. The plan was to make a lottery service, where people could run lotteries which are secured by a third party(Like me), and then people buy tickets trough EBank, which is fully secured. This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Mitchell Schwitzer	Posted - 2008.01.03 14:48:00 - [31] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: LaVista Vista For all its worth, i like to think my name is enough. Who are you...?
Zaphod Jones Minmatar Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.03 15:10:00 - [32] Originally by: Mitchell Schwitzer Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: LaVista Vista For all its worth, i like to think my name is enough. Who are you...? I know of both Lofty and LaVista and trust them both Save EvE TV
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.03 15:50:00 - [33] Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 03/01/2008 15:53:48 Here's a way of doing this in a fair, secure, independently verifiable and automated manner: 1. Choose a major public lottery. 2. Assign a positive integer to every possible draw from that lottery, starting from 1 and working upwards. 3. Compile a list of how many tickets have been bought, the purchasers, and the running total of tickets sold. 4. Find the number corresponding to the winning draw in the list of purchases and see who bought the range of tickets containing that number. That person is the winner. Step 2 is the hard part - one approach (again using the UK national lottery as an example) is to convert each draw to a 49-digit binary number where the nth digit indicates whether or not ball n was drawn, then sort these numbers in ascending order. The good news is that you only have to do this once, and then the list can be used indefinitely. This is quite similar to how the BIG lottery works, except that it sacrifices scalability in favour of increased security. Using the UK national lottery, however, still allows for almost 14m tickets to be sold for each draw, which should be enough for most purposes. You can scale the price of the tickets so that enough sell to make it probable that someone will have bought the winning ticket. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Pitt Bull Caldari Naval Reserve	Posted - 2008.01.03 15:52:00 - [34] Lotteries are the oldest, most widely-accepted scams of all time.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.03 20:14:00 - [35] Originally by: Pitt Bull Lotteries are the oldest, most widely-accepted scams of all time. How is it any different from everything else? When you buy a battleship in Jita, you are giving a person between 2 and 18(Yeah, you can make that kind of isk on a BS) million isk. In this case, a lottery you just have several people buy that very same item, but only 1 person gets it. This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
MisterBubbles	Posted - 2008.01.03 20:25:00 - [36] Originally by: LaVista Vista It generates 15 numbers, and takes the average of them. Thats what i plan for using. Well first off: As a lottery number generator that is simply broken. Second: Who the frak are you?
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.03 20:56:00 - [37] LV still hasn't confirmed whether or not he's going to keep a set fee for himself afaik. If he runs a lottery for other reasons (for instance, encouraging more people to get EBANK accounts) and perhaps even gives away a minimum set amount each time, then people will at least show no long-term expected loss even if it usually takes them ages to break even. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.03 20:57:00 - [38] Originally by: MisterBubbles Originally by: LaVista Vista It generates 15 numbers, and takes the average of them. Thats what i plan for using. Well first off: As a lottery number generator that is simply broken. Second: Who the frak are you? First: it was a random crap idea i had. But when running it, i realised the results were too predictable. Thus i wanna use the lottery numbers. Second: Post with your main, and i will tell you This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
MisterBubbles	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:12:00 - [39] Originally by: LaVista Vista Second: Post with your main, and i will tell you Done. I've never understood this. What's the deal with throwing this phrase at responses that are negative?
Boomershoot Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:24:00 - [40] http://www.truepunk.com/hobowars/lotto.asp it was (and is still) used for lottos in hobowars browser game lol
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:37:00 - [41] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro LV still hasn't confirmed whether or not he's going to keep a set fee for himself afaik. If he runs a lottery for other reasons (for instance, encouraging more people to get EBANK accounts) and perhaps even gives away a minimum set amount each time, then people will at least show no long-term expected loss even if it usually takes them ages to break even. The idea for the lottery wasnt for me to make isk. Its merely for a secure way of running, indexing and handling lotteries. This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:39:00 - [42] Originally by: MisterBubbles Originally by: LaVista Vista Second: Post with your main, and i will tell you Done. I've never understood this. What's the deal with throwing this phrase at responses that are negative? I just find it extremely fun how a 4month old character in a NPC corp asks the same question, which have been asked several times, and have been answered, when its got a very negative sound to it. At least, do your homework. Eve-search is a start. Also, if you havent heard of me, does it matter enough for you to ask the same answer as everybody else. Alot of people know and trust me. Im not trying to make you trust me. This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
MisterBubbles	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:50:00 - [43] Originally by: LaVista Vista I just find it extremely fun how a 4month old character in a NPC corp asks the same question, which have been asked several times, and have been answered, when its got a very negative sound to it. I wasn't asking a question. I don't care who you are. I was pointing out that if you have to say, "I thought my name would be enough." then it's quite obviously not. You still didn't answer my question about main.
Czarny Iwan	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:32:00 - [44] Originally by: Zaphod Jones Originally by: Mitchell Schwitzer Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: LaVista Vista For all its worth, i like to think my name is enough. Who are you...? I know of both Lofty and LaVista and trust them both Who are you...?

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