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Why does it look like the Nighthawk and Drake are equal?

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Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:11:00 - [31] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Apollyonn Edited by: Apollyonn on 03/01/2008 20:35:05 I disagree with you for a couple reasons: 1) You used EFT. Do not use EFT and then come on the forums and tell us you found how two ships are the same or whatever. Its kind of a sign of "noobishness." Are you really calling someone noobish, for comparing two SIMILAR ships, in SIMILAR roles, using EFT? Seriously, that's like calling everyone who uses a mouse to click on things lazy. but the way the op did it makes it a vaild call
MaidMarion The SMITE Brotherhood Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Verrain Ravenlark So I have been playing around with EFT to see if it was worth training Cruisers V and Battlecruisers V for a Nighthawk, vs the Drake. I rat an run missions primarily, so I'm not worried about any PvP stuff, just plain passive tank and DPS. The Drake and Nighthawk fittings are below. EFT tells me I have roughly the same tank and DPS on both ships...which would be totally bogus if true. I used my skills for the numbers; only exceptions being the Heavy Launcher II's (I would use Arby's for now) and the rigging skill for the Core Defense Field Purger II's (which is all of a few days training). Oh, and obviously the Spaceship Command skills to fly the 'hawk. Drake: High: 7x Heavy Launcher II Medium: 2x Large Field Extender II 1x Heat Deflection Field II 1x Kinetic Deflection Field II 1x Explosive Deflection Field II 1x Invulnerability Field II Low: 2x Shield Power Relay II 2x Ballistic Control System II Rigs: 3x Core Defense Field Purger II This gives me 13398 shields, with a peak recharge of 130 hp/sec Resists would obviously vary somewhat, but as a generic spread 40 EM, 70 Thermal, 78 Kenetic, 85 Explosive. Effective HP assuming equal damage distribution of 54,285 DPS without drones is 223 Nighthawk: High: 6x Heavy Launcher II Medium: 2x Large Field Extender II 1x Heat Deflection Field II 1x Kinetic Deflection Field II 1x Explosive Deflection Field II Low: 3x Shield Power Relay II 2x Ballistic Control System II Rigs: 2x Core Defense Field Purger II This gives me 12569 shields, with a peak recharge of 121 hp/sec Resists would obviously vary somewhat, but as a generic spread 25 EM, 86 Thermal, 84 Kenetic, 82 Explosive. Effective HP assuming equal damage distribution of 53,560 DPS without drones is 222 Now the 3 rigs on the drake would be very pricey, but with the Drake costing 1/5th of the Nighthawk, I suspect I would come out way ahead on cost. What do people think? Is EFT lying to me? Last thing I want to do is hop into my shiny command ship after 2 months of training and find out it performs the same as the Drake for me. I agree. We should immediately appropriate 1 mid slot and 1 rig slot from the drake to be bestowed upon the nighthawk. That ought to justify the price difference.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:21:00 - [33] Originally by: MaidMarion I agree. We should immediately appropriate 1 mid slot and 1 rig slot from the drake to be bestowed upon the nighthawk. That ought to justify the price difference. starts training for a nighthawk
Ral Ulgur Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:33:00 - [34] On the high-end side (nearly maxed skills, inculding command V) The Nighthawk always gets some extra DPS over the Drake with a similar tank judging from my playing around. The comparisons are based on my character using gear that I actually use plugged into EFT. (DG launchers, DG invuls / Pith X Hardeners, DG BCSs, CDFP IIs). Note that the nighthawk gets an additional advantage due to the target signature reduction bonus. Also the high end drake will be significantly more expensive that a high-end nighthawk: It needs an additional CDFP II and probably an extra hardener / invul and an extra DG launcher.
Maaxeru	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:16:00 - [35] Edited by: Maaxeru on 04/01/2008 00:23:09 1 - Plugging Purger IIs or 'Commander' modules in a Drake is dumb. They help - but you're still putting hundreds of millions of ISK of modules on a 30mm Isk ship. Bad! The top-end modules WILL give you an extra couple of seconds if you agro an entire room (with low skills) or happen on a decent GC. But you're still in a pod and now you're out a few hundred million extra uninsured ISK. Bad! 2 - Why does EVERYONE keep talking about SPR II's in the lows? Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I's are MUCH better. Same bang, lower CPU, for 2x the bucks. Done. 3 - /signed on everyone who said not to rely on EFT as a real-life tool. It's a great help - but not the bible truth
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:22:00 - [36] Originally by: Verrain Ravenlark So I have been playing around with EFT There is your problem right there. Too many people play EFT and not EVE.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:04:00 - [37] Originally by: Maaxeru 2 - Why does EVERYONE keep talking about SPR II's in the lows? Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I's are MUCH better. Same bang, lower CPU, for 2x the bucks. Done. sprII is cheaper and I don't run into any fitting problems with a drake cpu wise.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Maaxeru 2 - Why does EVERYONE keep talking about SPR II's in the lows? Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I's are MUCH better. Same bang, lower CPU, for 2x the bucks. Done. CPU is rarely a problem with those modules, that's why. That leaves youpaying twice as much as everyone else without getting anything from it -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Tessikhet	Posted - 2008.01.04 16:02:00 - [39] Hi, If it requires a 2-page thread with back-and-forth arguments to establish that probably the NH is better than the drake, then that's completely absurd and the balance is off between those two ships. For example, if a similar thread were created for the Astarte vs. the Brutix or the Myrmidon (unlike the caldari, the gallente have two good BCs), then it would be done after maybe three posts and the Astarte would win.
Zerode	Posted - 2008.01.05 17:38:00 - [40] Getting so tired of n00bs saying "Ohh, look here. The Drake tank like a Nighthawk", maybe if you fit it silly or have low/medium skills. The Drake and Nighhawk may be allmost the same tank and dps when using 2 BCS, but why only use 2 when the Nighthawk shine with 3? Then try to get a desent tank on the Drake with 3 CBS and take a look at the Nighhawk and guess what? The Nighhawk still tank greate and do alot more DPS than a Drake. For someone who only do lvl4 missions once in a while I'd say a T2 fitted Nighthawk is good enough and for the players with a small wallet I'd go a T2 Fitted Drake then swap to a Nighthawk when wallet make that possible and NEVER EVER take it to lowsec or in to PVP! Want a ship in PVP? Buy another Drake Then take a look at how these 2 ships will handle as you advance in modules and harwiring. Why invest in a ship if it can't get ALOT better with good modules but still handle desent with only T2 mods? Section bellow is ONLY for those who will make mission running there carrier.. Ask any mission runner and they will tell you that faction/deadpace/officer modules and best hardwiring will pay off in the long run. Making more isk from lvl4 missions as tank and dps gets higher and time to complete a mission get shorter. This is my fitting atm and it's allmost as good as a CNR, so no whining and saying that the Nighthawk isn't wort the effort pls. A good CNR fitting will cost between 2B and 6B isk depending on the ammount of officer gear and this will go for about 2,5B. High: 6x CN Heavys, 1x Something, Drone link maybee? Mid: 1x T2 AB, 2x CN Invulnerability Field, 2x T2 Large Shield Extender Low: 3x CN BCS, 2x T2 Shield Power Relay Rigs: 2x T2 Purger Drones: 5x T2 Small Scout Drones For EM damage missions, swap the T2 AB for a Pith X-Type Photon Scattering Field Hardwiring: 1x 5% ROF and 1x 5% Damage (The rest isn't that important here) Skills: Commnad Ship @ lvl5 and ALL tanking, missile, enginering and so on maxed out.
William Hartas Caldari United Nations Intelligence Taskforce Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.01.06 01:57:00 - [41] I don't get it. I moved from a Drake which couldn't kill the final rat in Vengeance to a Nighthawk which killed him without even needing a reload. Perhaps it's because I waited until my skills suited the new ship before changing, but I think it's stupid to get in a ship which one can't fly properly.

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