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Boost missiles or nerf speed please.

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L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:15:00 - [1] Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:18:11 I'm sitting here firing cruise missile after cruise missile at these ships and I'm hitting them for 0 damage! 1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake. My medium drones can't even catch them. Something needs to be done about speed, it is out of control. When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:18:00 - [2] Drakes don't shoot cruise missles. Their ships were worth more than yours. Mediums don't work against fast ships. There were more of them. Alt Troll 3/10.
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:19:00 - [3] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Drakes don't shoot cruise missles. Their ships were worth more than yours. Mediums don't work against fast ships. There were more of them. Alt Troll 3/10. I was in a raven, my friend was in a drake. So just because a ship is worth more it supposed to be able to win? pff
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:20:00 - [4] 1st... to get theyr ships like that they have to spend alot more than you ship costs. they came whit a few ppl... that means they are frined/corp mates... mybe you should get those too and fight back ?? but no... you are whineing that you cant solo a gang of ppl.. ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:21:00 - [5] They won simply because they are better than you. It has nothing to do with missles or speed. Surely you must be used to it by now.
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:22:00 - [6] Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:22:21 Originally by: Riho 1st... to get theyr ships like that they have to spend alot more than you ship costs. they came whit a few ppl... that means they are frined/corp mates... mybe you should get those too and fight back ?? but no... you are whineing that you cant solo a gang of ppl.. Ok I lost to a gang of people, but one doesn't even have a fighting chance in a battleship against t2 cruisers and frigs? They weren't getting hit for ANY damage.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:24:00 - [7] Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:22:21 Originally by: Riho 1st... to get theyr ships like that they have to spend alot more than you ship costs. they came whit a few ppl... that means they are frined/corp mates... mybe you should get those too and fight back ?? but no... you are whineing that you cant solo a gang of ppl.. Ok I lost to a gang of people, but one doesn't even have a fighting chance in a battleship against t2 cruisers and frigs? They weren't getting hit for ANY damage. battleships are not solopwn mobiles.... they need support. if you had a friend in a rapier/huginn/ceptor whit a web.... this would have been something else.... and allso.... the drake pilot whit you... why didnt he use precision heavys(unless he was a low skilled pilot ofc) ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Riho Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:22:21 Originally by: Riho 1st... to get theyr ships like that they have to spend alot more than you ship costs. they came whit a few ppl... that means they are frined/corp mates... mybe you should get those too and fight back ?? but no... you are whineing that you cant solo a gang of ppl.. Ok I lost to a gang of people, but one doesn't even have a fighting chance in a battleship against t2 cruisers and frigs? They weren't getting hit for ANY damage. battleships are not solopwn mobiles.... they need support. if you had a friend in a rapier/huginn/ceptor whit a web.... this would have been something else.... and allso.... the drake pilot whit you... why didnt he use precision heavys(unless he was a low skilled pilot ofc) Precision heavy missiles will do very very little damage to anything that is above 5000m/sec... explosion velocity of 1500m/sec with max skills...
Zana Kito Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu They won simply because they are better than you. It has nothing to do with missles or speed. Surely you must be used to it by now. Iwin buttons never make anyone a better player. NOS/ECM domi back in the days pwned not because players behind them were better.. cos if that was the case, they still should pwn just as much now. It's a stupid argument that people who fly clearly overpowered ships is somehow more skilled. Woahh.. it's so skillful to get some poly rigs on, overdrives and nanos in the lows and fly at hax speed.. yeah.. see how long this continues.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Zana Kito Originally by: Atsuko Ratu They won simply because they are better than you. It has nothing to do with missles or speed. Surely you must be used to it by now. Iwin buttons never make anyone a better player. NOS/ECM domi back in the days pwned not because players behind them were better.. cos if that was the case, they still should pwn just as much now. It's a stupid argument that people who fly clearly overpowered ships is somehow more skilled. Woahh.. it's so skillful to get some poly rigs on, overdrives and nanos in the lows and fly at hax speed.. yeah.. see how long this continues. so if players put 1bil+ in snake i implants and hardwireings and 500+ mil in fittings a nuub whit a 60mil isk drake should pwn it ?... ok i can understand the whines about the vaga and rapier and stuff like that... but ishtar ??? shoot the damn drones :P ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:37:00 - [11] Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 04/01/2008 07:40:38 Next time, don't fire at the interceptors. Shoot the vagabond that isn't MWDing. If the vagabond is MWDing, it won't do any damage to you so ignore it. The problem with fighting superior numbers of superior ships being piloted by pilots with superior skillpoints is that they know how to micromanage and manually pilot. They won't sit there and 'orbit then F1-8, afk'. Learn EVE, learn tactics, learn combat. It's the only way you'll stand a chance against 2.5x your number in ships that are a tech level higher than yours. Not that I'm saying you should have stood a chance in hell of actually winning a fight against 3 hac and 2 ceptors :P _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Zana Kito Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Riho Originally by: Zana Kito Originally by: Atsuko Ratu They won simply because they are better than you. It has nothing to do with missles or speed. Surely you must be used to it by now. Iwin buttons never make anyone a better player. NOS/ECM domi back in the days pwned not because players behind them were better.. cos if that was the case, they still should pwn just as much now. It's a stupid argument that people who fly clearly overpowered ships is somehow more skilled. Woahh.. it's so skillful to get some poly rigs on, overdrives and nanos in the lows and fly at hax speed.. yeah.. see how long this continues. so if players put 1bil+ in snake i implants and hardwireings and 500+ mil in fittings a nuub whit a 60mil isk drake should pwn it ?... ok i can understand the whines about the vaga and rapier and stuff like that... but ishtar ??? shoot the damn drones :P And so your idea is to make eve a game of "buying your way to iwin buttons?" Don't be silly. WE all know how strong nano setups are, and their only threat is hug/raps.. anything else they can leave the fight at will. That's the only reason people are willing to folk out billions for expensive rigs/implants. They know their setup is infinitely more survivable than any other setups in eve. How often do you see people pvp in faction BSes with billions in rigs and implants? You don't. Isk doesn't buy any other setup the kind of combat effectiveness and ability to pick fights at will as nanos... you know it, the devs know it, and your pet dog prolly knows it as well. Anyway, just don't be too suprised nor upset when the nerfbat swing on nano setups. Dictors are first.. which is next?
SATAN BURN EDEN	Posted - 2008.01.04 08:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Riho Originally by: Zana Kito Originally by: Atsuko Ratu They won simply because they are better than you. It has nothing to do with missles or speed. Surely you must be used to it by now. Iwin buttons never make anyone a better player. NOS/ECM domi back in the days pwned not because players behind them were better.. cos if that was the case, they still should pwn just as much now. It's a stupid argument that people who fly clearly overpowered ships is somehow more skilled. Woahh.. it's so skillful to get some poly rigs on, overdrives and nanos in the lows and fly at hax speed.. yeah.. see how long this continues. so if players put 1bil+ in snake i implants and hardwireings and 500+ mil in fittings a nuub whit a 60mil isk drake should pwn it ?... ok i can understand the whines about the vaga and rapier and stuff like that... but ishtar ??? shoot the damn drones :P a) You dont need to spend 1 bil on implants or anything of the sort, if you fly faster than 4k sec then no missile is going to do any significant damage to you no matter what skills/equipment the pilot possese. b) If isk is to determine the ability to kill anything then perhaps you better remind CCP that Motherships need alot of boosting cause at the moment they can be killed by a handfull of people that spent 1/30th of the isk on their ships.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2008.01.04 08:45:00 - [14] im just saying there are alot of counter to nano ships.... the thing i dont understand is why ppl have the obsession on killing them :P if u can make them run away... thats good allready. and i know pretty much what is there to know about nano stuff..... im a nano bastard myself. i have a nano ishtar (hate the ship.. loose too damn many drones), nano zealot (lol), nano huginn (well.. will have again when they can be built again), nano rapier, vaga ofc :P, nano curse.... think thats about it.... cant fly caldari so i dont have a nano cerb :P for the vaga and ishtar.. you only need poly rigs (50m per one) and t2 stuff... good skills get decent speeds. BUT for the other ships you need snakes allready as you cant get 4km/s orbit otherways to run from missiles ok.. alot of ppl use faction disruptors to stay away from neuts... whats the problem.. use faction neuts yourself to get them. like i said before... nano ishtar comes... shoot the drones down.... like he can kill you whitout them :P. vaga will only do damage if its not useing mwd... and so on.... ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
bladewell	Posted - 2008.01.04 08:46:00 - [15] First, every know in real life nothing is fast than missles.. in real life the"G force" for airplant and pilots have the max.. over that you lost your control. but missles dont have that proplem.. same thing in space ,fast speed making G force. too fast you lost your control. missles dont have that proplem .. dotn matter what. but EVE they add too much bouns on speed and lost the real like, that is missles should be fast than ship. just like hunman ever run fast than bullets, dont matter what.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2008.01.04 08:52:00 - [16] Originally by: bladewell First, every know in real life nothing is fast than missles.. in real life the"G force" for airplant and pilots have the max.. over that you lost your control. but missles dont have that proplem.. same thing in space ,fast speed making G force. too fast you lost your control. missles dont have that proplem .. dotn matter what. but EVE they add too much bouns on speed and lost the real like, that is missles should be fast than ship. just like hunman ever run fast than bullets, dont matter what. you made the mistake of comapreing EVE whit REAL LIFE.... its a GAME ffs ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
Dinakheron	Posted - 2008.01.04 09:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Riho you made the mistake of comapreing EVE whit REAL LIFE.... its a GAME ffs Thats why I want pixie dust, Dragons, Magic swords, etc implemented so I can kill those nano ships...
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2008.01.04 09:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Dinakheron Originally by: Riho you made the mistake of comapreing EVE whit REAL LIFE.... its a GAME ffs Thats why I want pixie dust, Dragons, Magic swords, etc implemented so I can kill those nano ships... your face should be enough :P ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.04 10:19:00 - [19] Originally by: L70Rogue Precision heavy missiles will do very very little damage to anything that is above 5000m/sec... explosion velocity of 1500m/sec with max skills... If you bothered to fit your ships, think creatively, or have another friend (they did outnumber you afterall), you might have won. Although I must admit that I've tanked entire nano gangs in my Drake with no problems. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
ZP20	Posted - 2008.01.04 10:26:00 - [20] Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:18:11 When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles. Speed is not out of control, you could have fitted a heavy neut to your ship, and drained cap out one of their ships, their MWD would stop and then you can hit them. How hard is that?
Jims Mistress	Posted - 2008.01.04 10:32:00 - [21] The issue is not with missiles, its with HAC, they are very hard to kill with BS guns/launchers unless webbed. You had 3 tech 2 cruisers shooting Tech 1 ships so its no wonder you lost. Best way to counter HAC is with nos/neuts, E-warfare, webbs.
Fedman Kasad Minmatar Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.01.04 11:03:00 - [22] Seriously, i don't get this constant whining. Starting billion threads about the same thing, neither. WTF people? OF COURSE you won't do ANY damage to a ship flying 5k, it's simply not possible. You know why? Because no ship flying at 5k can do damage to you either(except perhaps some drone boat with SICK setup and implants, but i doubt that exists and is all that common). In short: * YOU CAN'T HIT VERY VERY FAST SHIPS WITH MISSILES, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HIT YOU BACK EITHER. Now, the part with the price - To fly a vaga with "just" 5k you need to invest some good 400mil or so in the ship and rigs. If you want to hit 5-6k you need to buy implants, that cost so much i haven't even checked them cause i know i can't afford it. So basically you can do a fit like that not all that often(unless you buy ISKs), it's normal to get something special for your money... And it's normal that you don't lose a vaga like that once a week. For the same money you can buy 3-4-5 ravens and fit them... And finally, we DO pop a lot of vagas, they are really not all that invincible. People make mistakes, there's lag, there's huggin... So people, please stop crying about speed, missiles, nerfs and ****. Missiles are already the best weapon in terms of hitting things - you don't care about tracking, you hit exactly the same from 100km and 1km, for the same damage, etc... Turrets can't hit extremely fast targets neither. P.S. No, i don't fly vaga, i tried it and i don't really like that game style. [-------------------------------------------------] Tears stream behind my visor, but eyes look unblinking at the world
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2008.01.04 11:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Fedman Kasad lot of text on the drone boat thing... ishtar can reach whit just t2 gear enough speed to tank missiles. BUT... a smart person will shoot the drones whiles hes going around you in circles :P ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
Fedman Kasad Minmatar Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.01.04 11:26:00 - [24] nod Yes, and then the ishtar is completely useless... [-------------------------------------------------] Tears stream behind my visor, but eyes look unblinking at the world
Megan Maynard Minmatar Clearspace Operations Carpe Diem.	Posted - 2008.01.04 11:35:00 - [25] Good to see cool head prevailing here. Speed tank equipment costs more then the drake. And more then the base price of a raven. I don't see you complaining about a t1 rifter with a t2 AB not dying to your cruise missiles? Battleships should NOT hit frigates. It's as easy as that. EVE had a period of time that did happen, before tracking in guns and explosion radius and velocity. Battleships were overpowered as hell. CCP isn't going to nerf speed anytime soon. The dev chat said specifically they are nerfing INTERDICTORS that are going too fast. Go listen to it, it's pretty good.
Pickled Egg	Posted - 2008.01.04 11:38:00 - [26] So wait, five on two, you lost, and you're whining? What, so used to slaughtering missions in your Raven and Drake that you get upset when you're slaughtered in real combat?
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2008.01.04 11:39:00 - [27] Caldari is not supposed to "have it all"
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.04 11:42:00 - [28] Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:18:11 I'm sitting here firing cruise missile after cruise missile at these ships and I'm hitting them for 0 damage! 1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake. My medium drones can't even catch them. Something needs to be done about speed, it is out of control. When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles. you fail because you were in a outnumbered situation, so unless you had an escape route, you would lose your ship. you fail because the main damage dealer there is, evidently, the ishtar. why didn't you shoot his drones? in sum, you fail because of your noobishness by putting yourself into such situation. --- planetary interaction idea!
Slide	Posted - 2008.01.04 11:52:00 - [29] I don't want to say it but i am afraid i can't withold myself Having a name like L70Rogue , sure it is not WOW based , explains alot.
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 11:54:00 - [30] Guys - The issue is not that he died He was gonna die anyway but his point is that Missile Damage is BROKEN! Nanoships gain 99.99% Damage resist to missile by going fast. They are going so fast due to broken damage calculations that were designed prior to nanoage that we live in now. What the OP wants was the ability to do damage. Not OMGWTFPWN, as he would have lost anyway. Nanos are the NEW WCS, allowing people to have risk free pvp as nanoships can escape if the OP had brought something that would pose a danger to any of them. Thats the WcS scenario. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Serotta Ortot Equilibrium Inc. FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.04 11:56:00 - [31] To the OP, make peace with the fact that currently in EvE, any of the nano ships be it - Vaga, Ishtar, Sabre (even post nerf) etc is a virtual "I Win" button, for the simple reason that your roaming pirate group can pick and chose its targets, and if they take to much damage or get outnumbered due to help arriving, simply fly off out of scram range and warp away. Only way to combat them effectively is in a gang with some Rapiers etc so slow them down, or avoiding them altogether by ratting aligned etc. I don't see any speed adjustment's coming along, since EvE loves it's pirates and griefers. If it makes you feel better, I lost a T2 fitted Raven to Awox and his multiple accounts against only two Sabre's, a Pilgrim and a Schimitar. Still waiting for the first nano-carrier and nano-dreadnaught though
Slide	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:01:00 - [32] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Guys - The issue is not that he died He was gonna die anyway but his point is that Missile Damage is BROKEN! Nanoships gain 99.99% Damage resist to missile by going fast. They are going so fast due to broken damage calculations that were designed prior to nanoage that we live in now. What the OP wants was the ability to do damage. Not OMGWTFPWN, as he would have lost anyway. Nanos are the NEW WCS, allowing people to have risk free pvp as nanoships can escape if the OP had brought something that would pose a danger to any of them. Thats the WcS scenario. You might be right about missiles, but as the OP said: "1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake" makes it very clear that the OP wants a OMGWTFPWN ship.
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:06:00 - [33] Originally by: Slide Originally by: Jonny JoJo Guys - The issue is not that he died He was gonna die anyway but his point is that Missile Damage is BROKEN! Nanoships gain 99.99% Damage resist to missile by going fast. They are going so fast due to broken damage calculations that were designed prior to nanoage that we live in now. What the OP wants was the ability to do damage. Not OMGWTFPWN, as he would have lost anyway. Nanos are the NEW WCS, allowing people to have risk free pvp as nanoships can escape if the OP had brought something that would pose a danger to any of them. Thats the WcS scenario. You might be right about missiles, but as the OP said: "1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake" makes it very clear that the OP wants a OMGWTFPWN ship. No I don't want a OMGWTFPWN ship. The problem is anything larger than frig sized assault missiles can't hit anything that's going faster than 5000km/s.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:16:00 - [34] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/01/2008 12:20:07 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/01/2008 12:18:44 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/01/2008 12:17:24 Originally by: bladewell First, every know in real life nothing is fast than missles.. in real life the"G force" for airplant and pilots have the max.. over that you lost your control. but missles dont have that proplem.. same thing in space ,fast speed making G force. too fast you lost your control. missles dont have that proplem .. dotn matter what. but EVE they add too much bouns on speed and lost the real like, that is missles should be fast than ship. just like hunman ever run fast than bullets, dont matter what. (a) Fail because you're using real life to describe EvE. (b) Double fail because there are jets which are extremely hard next to impossible to actually catch with missiles, which is why I don't remember a single instance of a Mig-25 shot down by a air-to-air missiles. In fact, the whole Mig-25 scare in the 60-ies was because, well, a Israeli F-4 (I'm quite sure it was an a F-4, correct me if I'm wrong) fired a missile at the Mig, and the noob pilot panicked and ran with full throttle, exceeding the safety specs of the Mig-25 which isn't supposed to cross the 2.83M threshold and took it to 3.2M. People were incredibly scared of the thing back then, especially as they didn't know it had to go for a engine refit after that stunt as the constructors didn't expect the engines to start behaving like, essentially, a ram-jet over 2.83M. Anyway, I'm rambling. Point is you're quite wrong though; for a very long time, there was no air to air missile which could catch the thing (in fact, I don't know a air to air missile which can hit it right now if it's fired on it as it's fleeting at top speed). So, double fail from your part. To the OP: If the Raven had been sensibly fitted (MWD, heavy cap neutraliser), you could probably killed one of the Vagabonds (and the Drake could've removed the threat of the Ishtar by killing his drones); but you cannot really expect to win in a 2v5 situation if the other gang is really competent. See, if you neutralise a Vaga and it's MWD shuts off, there's going to be 50 cruisers hitting him simultanously, probably instapopping the whole bugger and costing them the finanical loss equivalent to the cost of Raven+Drake if not more. To some silly bugger saying that the speed ships are "I-win" because they choose their fights: well, excuse me, but I choose my fights in a frigate/destroyer/cruiser/BC or whatever ship I'm flying. Choosing your fights is not the privilege of nano-ships alone. Do you really think you'd have survived against, say, four brutixes and a rook? They'd have melted you even quicker and you still wouldn't be able to do anything. If you had been fitted smartly, you could've killed one or two of their ships. But you weren't. Boo hoo. Rifters!
burek Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:18:00 - [35] Buhu? Just face the facts, the guys are just better then you and if there was no speed in this game they would have killed your dumb ass with some other strategy. That goes for all of the whine brigade. Just accept the facts that you are lower in the food chain and learn to love your crappy self. Please don't flame me, it hurts me so...
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:22:00 - [36] Originally by: L70Rogue No I don't want a OMGWTFPWN ship. The problem is anything larger than frig sized assault missiles can't hit anything that's going faster than 5000km/s. Then stop them from going faster then 5000km/s. Say hello to the Turn yer MWD off module Rifters!
Zana Kito Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:23:00 - [37] Originally by: Megan Maynard CCP isn't going to nerf speed anytime soon. The dev chat said specifically they are nerfing INTERDICTORS that are going too fast. Go listen to it, it's pretty good. Suggest you listen again.. more stacking on any module that boost stats which cause speed increases. General nano setups are going to be nerfed. It's only a matter of how much and when (most likely in the upcoming "boost patch" heh).
Fedman Kasad Minmatar Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:51:00 - [38] This is still going on? Don't you people learn?!!?! "No I don't want a OMGWTFPWN ship. The problem is anything larger than frig sized assault missiles can't hit anything that's going faster than 5000km/s." Name 1 turret that can successfully track and hit a target moving at 5000m/s. (5000km/s is another story) Now name 1 turret that can be mounted on a ship moving 5k/s and hit you. You can't. Because they don't exist. => Missiles are fine. Speed: As i already stated earlier, a ship orbiting with very high speed is exactly as capable of hitting you, as you are hitting him. => Once he slows down you have to open fire. Better yet, try to time your things right and drop a web on it, then insta pop it. There was a very nice thread some months ago, that was called "Boost Vaga please", if i am not mistaken. In it, the author described in detail many tactics for killing a vaga. Search for it, read it, learn, win. Or... cry moar on teh forumz. [-------------------------------------------------] Tears stream behind my visor, but eyes look unblinking at the world
Flurren	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:53:00 - [39] Edited by: Flurren on 04/01/2008 12:53:35 Sorry you failed when you created your char name .
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Guys - The issue is not that he died He was gonna die anyway but his point is that Missile Damage is BROKEN! Nanoships gain 99.99% Damage resist to missile by going fast. They are going so fast due to broken damage calculations that were designed prior to nanoage that we live in now. What the OP wants was the ability to do damage. Not OMGWTFPWN, as he would have lost anyway. Nanos are the NEW WCS, allowing people to have risk free pvp as nanoships can escape if the OP had brought something that would pose a danger to any of them. Thats the WcS scenario. They also gain a pretty decent damage resistance to turrets by going fast. So the issue isn't that missiles suck. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Cautet North Siders	Posted - 2008.01.04 13:04:00 - [41] Edited by: Cautet on 04/01/2008 13:12:37 Originally by: Fedman Kasad Speed: As i already stated earlier, a ship orbiting with very high speed is exactly as capable of hitting you, as you are hitting him. => Once he slows down you have to open fire. Better yet, try to time your things right and drop a web on it, then insta pop it. This is an untrue statement. An ishtar can hit you with his drones, a crow with his missiles, a vaga cant do much damage while orbiting at that speed but he still has a missile launcher on there. However, they had more ships than you, and better ships than you, and 4 bs and an inty would have taken you down also, as well as many other combinations of ships. NB: assault launchers are a cruiser/bc sized weapon, standard launchers are a frig sized weapon. They both fire light missiles which are for killing frigs (I think this statement says as much about HAC speed as anything else as t2 light precision are the only missile that can hit a nano ship but wont do that much damage anyway). There are tactics that can get rid of nano ships, and I really couldn't care less if they are nerfed or not, although it also is very true that nano fitting your ship will make you more invulnerable than a rack of WCS. Caldari HAC's are too slow to nano effectively.
Audio Bully	Posted - 2008.01.04 13:11:00 - [42] Edited by: Audio Bully on 04/01/2008 13:12:53 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Guys - The issue is not that he died He was gonna die anyway but his point is that Missile Damage is BROKEN! Nanoships gain 99.99% Damage resist to missile by going fast. They are going so fast due to broken damage calculations that were designed prior to nanoage that we live in now. What the OP wants was the ability to do damage. Not OMGWTFPWN, as he would have lost anyway. Nanos are the NEW WCS, allowing people to have risk free pvp as nanoships can escape if the OP had brought something that would pose a danger to any of them. Thats the WcS scenario. Damnit, nano's aren't the new wcs, nothing like them, purely because you can't hit them (they cannot hit you either) doesnt make them omfgwtfhax, its in the game mechanics. Ever tried to pop a drake ina vaga? If half of you people are really worried and ***ed off about the idea of nanoships, you would damn well figure out a way of dealing with them.. oh wait, there is!!1. I say its mostly these caldari fanboi's who after getting a buff, they want to get another. And to the whole risk free pvp, your chatting utter rubbish. Clue please __________________________________________________ Great being Amarr, Minmatar, and Caldari isn't it?*
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection	Posted - 2008.01.04 13:34:00 - [43] Originally by: Cautet Originally by: Fedman Kasad Speed: As i already stated earlier, a ship orbiting with very high speed is exactly as capable of hitting you, as you are hitting him. => Once he slows down you have to open fire. Better yet, try to time your things right and drop a web on it, then insta pop it. Do you think the change to WCS was a good one? Why? (hint: replying yes to this question somewhat invalidates your quote as a reason that speed is exactly as it should be) I've tanked 5+ nano gangs in my Drake and never dropped below 80% shields. Wasn't a very interesting engagement but was a nice air show. The main difference between resistance/buffer tanks and speed tanks is that with enough of ANY ship the resistance/buffer tanks will eventually fail and give very little chance to escape and avoid death while some speed tanks would never fail unless certain ships are involved and give a much greater chance of engagement avoidance. Even with billions of ISK investment, resistance tanks should never reduce damage done to them or risk to 0, neither should speed tanks in my opinion. If nothing is changed speed ships will continue to be a minor threat and annoyance. I can live with it and it doesn't rank anywhere near game breaking from my point of view. Doesn't mean that any of that is a good reason not to change things if a good solution is adopted by CCP. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection	Posted - 2008.01.04 13:48:00 - [44] Originally by: Audio Bully Edited by: Audio Bully on 04/01/2008 13:12:53 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Guys - The issue is not that he died He was gonna die anyway but his point is that Missile Damage is BROKEN! Nanoships gain 99.99% Damage resist to missile by going fast. They are going so fast due to broken damage calculations that were designed prior to nanoage that we live in now. What the OP wants was the ability to do damage. Not OMGWTFPWN, as he would have lost anyway. Nanos are the NEW WCS, allowing people to have risk free pvp as nanoships can escape if the OP had brought something that would pose a danger to any of them. Thats the WcS scenario. Damnit, nano's aren't the new wcs, nothing like them, purely because you can't hit them (they cannot hit you either) doesnt make them omfgwtfhax, its in the game mechanics. Ever tried to pop a drake ina vaga? If half of you people are really worried and ****ed off about the idea of nanoships, you would damn well figure out a way of dealing with them.. oh wait, there is!!1. I say its mostly these caldari fanboi's who after getting a buff, they want to get another. And to the whole risk free pvp, your chatting utter rubbish. Clue please You stated your opinion agressively, but didn't really present much of an argument. In what way does 'nanoing' your ship NOT help you avoid risk in PVP. "In the game mechanics" is a dumb argument considering the argument is about whether or not the mechanics should be tweaked. Dual MWDing Raven in their time were "within the game mechanics" and I don't think many people would argue that that is a good defense for keeping them in game. Your Vaga VS Drake argument is better than RL comparisons but only by a little. 10 vagas could pop a Drake and 10 Drakes couldn't pop a Vaga, plus the Vagas can choose when to engage the Drake and not the other way around. In general 1 vs 1 scenarios present a poor base for an EVE argument. Also how did you seriously lead with "Damnit, nano's aren't the new wcs" and follow with "purely because you can't hit them (they cannot hit you either)" in the same sentence. Not allowing the 2 parties to hit each other was EXACTLY what WCS accomplished. Postulating that opponents in the argument "just want another buff" is also not a solid rebuttal because it doesn't apply to the context of the discussion. Then you also add the obligatory straw man that the argument you are refuting is that there are NO counters or ways to survive at all against nano ships, when that also is not necessarily the case. Come back with more solid discussion material before you start talking about "clues". "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Charlie Seriya Gallente Eve Defence Force Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.04 13:55:00 - [45] 3 HAC + 2 Inty (all great PVP ships) vs 1 BS + 1 BC (both great PVE ships) Where were your heavy energy neutralisers? Where were your fast-moving support with webifiers? Where were your 3 mates to make it even numbers? What were you doing fighting 5 T2 ships with 2 T1 ones? A HAC is at least a match for a Battlecruiser, and 2 HACs strikes me as about even to a BS so I take issue with your assesment of what they "should not" have been able to manage. Nanocruisers are a bit on the good side but it's a Vagabond's role in the game to move very fast, likewise Interceptors. In any case if you'd been packing large neuts and overheating webifiers you might have given them a bit more of a fight but honestly, what did you expect?
Dominious Gallente New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 13:57:00 - [46] If you can't beat them, join them. I'm training for my very own speed vaga. Once everone's flying them they'll get nerfed.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.01.04 14:01:00 - [47] Originally by: Riho 1st... to get theyr ships like that they have to spend alot more than you ship costs. they came whit a few ppl... that means they are frined/corp mates... mybe you should get those too and fight back ?? but no... you are whineing that you cant solo a gang of ppl.. Your first point is a load of crap. The "My ship costs more therefore it ought to win" line is stupid and everyone knows it. Spending a lot should not = win, nor should it = "invulnerable to an entire class of weapons" and "immune to damage unless it comes from a similarly equipped ship". That being said, the second point is completely reasonable - they had more firepower available to sling at the battleship and the drake, which are ships that do not go terribly well together given that neither tends to have many free mids to try to do something about that blinding speed. This debate comes up all the time and to be honest I don't think there is a convenient fix. Getting one of the web speciality ships is about the only good counter that exists, or hoping the pilot screws up and loses transversal. If we speed up missiles enough that they can damage (or even CATCH in some cases) the fastest ships in the game then their flight time would have to be nerfed to hell or joe newbie could shoot a heavy missile 3x further than their lock range, and if the explosion velocity was increased then the counter to speed would become "use missiles" which doesn't create a better scenario in terms of balance. That being said, I don't remember seeing all these stupid fast ships before the introduction of rigs. In fact, I'd say the introduction of rigs created a lot of balance problems (the Drake comes to mind here). Or maybe they did exist I just wasn't in 0.0 to get owned by them repeatedly yet.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.01.04 14:05:00 - [48] Incidentally, though I haven't really run across them - is it not true that the Cerb can put out some nice speed in the neighborhood of 4 + k/s while still doing it's full damage since it fires heavy missiles? I've never tested to see if going stupid fast effects my missiles damage but then again my fastest ships might break 1.5k/s and that doesn't seem to matter much at all.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.04 14:23:00 - [49] Originally by: Derek Sigres Incidentally, though I haven't really run across them - is it not true that the Cerb can put out some nice speed in the neighborhood of 4 + k/s while still doing it's full damage since it fires heavy missiles? I've never tested to see if going stupid fast effects my missiles damage but then again my fastest ships might break 1.5k/s and that doesn't seem to matter much at all. nano-cerb? requires even more isk invested to make it somewhat good than the ishtar. --- planetary interaction idea!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.04 14:25:00 - [50] Originally by: Serotta Ortot To the OP, make peace with the fact that currently in EvE, any of the nano ships be it - Vaga, Ishtar, Sabre (even post nerf) etc is a virtual "I Win" button, for the simple reason that your roaming pirate group can pick and chose its targets, and if they take to much damage or get outnumbered due to help arriving, simply fly off out of scram range and warp away. Only way to combat them effectively is in a gang with some Rapiers etc so slow them down, or avoiding them altogether by ratting aligned etc. I don't see any speed adjustment's coming along, since EvE loves it's pirates and griefers. If it makes you feel better, I lost a T2 fitted Raven to Awox and his multiple accounts against only two Sabre's, a Pilgrim and a Schimitar. Still waiting for the first nano-carrier and nano-dreadnaught though if you could managed to kill the scimtar, then you could kill the pilgrim aswell. there is a reason why many people primary logistic cruisers, and it's not because of their amazing damage --- planetary interaction idea!
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.01.04 14:33:00 - [51] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Derek Sigres Incidentally, though I haven't really run across them - is it not true that the Cerb can put out some nice speed in the neighborhood of 4 + k/s while still doing it's full damage since it fires heavy missiles? I've never tested to see if going stupid fast effects my missiles damage but then again my fastest ships might break 1.5k/s and that doesn't seem to matter much at all. nano-cerb? requires even more isk invested to make it somewhat good than the ishtar. Hell, it might be worth training the skill just to give it a try. If I screw it up it's only a few hundred million isk mistake, thus meeting my qualifications of "do something monumentally stupid in eve at least once a week"
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.04 14:37:00 - [52] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Derek Sigres Incidentally, though I haven't really run across them - is it not true that the Cerb can put out some nice speed in the neighborhood of 4 + k/s while still doing it's full damage since it fires heavy missiles? I've never tested to see if going stupid fast effects my missiles damage but then again my fastest ships might break 1.5k/s and that doesn't seem to matter much at all. nano-cerb? requires even more isk invested to make it somewhat good than the ishtar. Hell, it might be worth training the skill just to give it a try. If I screw it up it's only a few hundred million isk mistake, thus meeting my qualifications of "do something monumentally stupid in eve at least once a week" by "more isk invested" I'm talking about full set of HG snakes T2 polys and faction OD's btw ok yes, you can downgrade to LG snakes and T1 polys, but that's still over 1bil investment and it's not that fast. --- planetary interaction idea!
Tuschii Filthy Scum The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.04 14:50:00 - [53] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Guys - The issue is not that he died He was gonna die anyway but his point is that Missile Damage is BROKEN! Nanoships gain 99.99% Damage resist to missile by going fast. They are going so fast due to broken damage calculations that were designed prior to nanoage that we live in now. What the OP wants was the ability to do damage. Not OMGWTFPWN, as he would have lost anyway. Nanos are the NEW WCS, allowing people to have risk free pvp as nanoships can escape if the OP had brought something that would pose a danger to any of them. Thats the WcS scenario. Come on JoJo, its not only missiles that would not hit at that orbit velocity, You act as if any thing could hit things orbiting at that velocity, except for drones and in that case pop them... ---
Fedman Kasad Minmatar Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:11:00 - [54] Originally by: Cautet Edited by: Cautet on 04/01/2008 13:20:34 Originally by: Fedman Kasad Speed: As i already stated earlier, a ship orbiting with very high speed is exactly as capable of hitting you, as you are hitting him. => Once he slows down you have to open fire. Better yet, try to time your things right and drop a web on it, then insta pop it. This is an untrue statement. An ishtar can hit you with his drones, a crow with his missiles, a vaga cant do much damage while orbiting at that speed but he still has a missile launcher on there. True. But that is about the only ship capable of flying fast and "hitting you". However, once you kill the drones it becomes 100% useless and has no choice but to warp away. Drones are not ALL that easy to kill in a BS if you don't have a bomb installed, but you should have your own drones in any BS and use them to pop the enemy ones. The only "problem" with speed ships is that can escape combat much more easier. They can't kill you easier, in order to fire they need to slow down. Just like cloaking ship scan chose not to uncloak, fast ships can run away. Honestly, that's the whole point. [-------------------------------------------------] Tears stream behind my visor, but eyes look unblinking at the world
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:17:00 - [55] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Derek Sigres Incidentally, though I haven't really run across them - is it not true that the Cerb can put out some nice speed in the neighborhood of 4 + k/s while still doing it's full damage since it fires heavy missiles? I've never tested to see if going stupid fast effects my missiles damage but then again my fastest ships might break 1.5k/s and that doesn't seem to matter much at all. nano-cerb? requires even more isk invested to make it somewhat good than the ishtar. Hell, it might be worth training the skill just to give it a try. If I screw it up it's only a few hundred million isk mistake, thus meeting my qualifications of "do something monumentally stupid in eve at least once a week" by "more isk invested" I'm talking about full set of HG snakes T2 polys and faction OD's btw ok yes, you can downgrade to LG snakes and T1 polys, but that's still over 1bil investment and it's not that fast. Monumentally stupid gets upgraded to EPICally stupid. I like that plan. I don't know what I'd do with a nano-cerb really. If it worked I'd just be a jerk-bag with it. That's basically all I can do in pvp is annoy the hell out of people (with insufficient firepower that I use to supress drones or just plain ole jam people)
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:48:00 - [56] In my opinion, a ship should never be able to fly fast enough so that missiles do no damage to them. It should only reduce the damage, same way that armor or shield resistances reduce the damage. Making it effectively immune to missile damage is just bad design policy.
Chemical Castration Chemical Castration Lotto	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:56:00 - [57] You guys talk like that a ship moving so fast a missile can't damage it can get hit by anything remotely nearby that requires tracking - ie. a turret. So, zomg, fix it fix it fix it! Honestly guys. If they made it so missiles damaged everything, you can say goodbye to interceptors. Oh, and, that would suck for Caldari, because... they're short on midslots. Whoops. Nerfed yourselves.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Clearspace Operations Carpe Diem.	Posted - 2008.01.04 16:29:00 - [58] "Ok I lost to a gang of people, but one doesn't even have a fighting chance in a battleship against t2 cruisers and frigs? They weren't getting hit for ANY damage." Turret boat would be in the same hot water as you were. "Precision heavy missiles will do very very little damage to anything that is above 5000m/sec... explosion velocity of 1500m/sec with max skills..." t2 medium art. wouldn't scratch the surface of a nano ship. "Don't be silly. WE all know how strong nano setups are, and their only threat is hug/raps.. anything else they can leave the fight at will. That's the only reason people are willing to folk out billions for expensive rigs/implants. They know their setup is infinitely more survivable than any other setups in eve. How often do you see people pvp in faction BSes with billions in rigs and implants? You don't. Isk doesn't buy any other setup the kind of combat effectiveness and ability to pick fights at will as nanos... you know it, the devs know it, and your pet dog prolly knows it as well." I constantly pick fights in my stealth bomber. It's expensive just like my hyena and fragile too. ISK BUYS EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME GET OVER IT. "a) You dont need to spend 1 bil on implants or anything of the sort, if you fly faster than 4k sec then no missile is going to do any significant damage to you no matter what skills/equipment the pilot possese." Try orbiting if your ship only goes 4000 m/s, you will die quickly to a drake or caracal. Hell a kestrel will ruin your day in a frigate. "He was gonna die anyway but his point is that Missile Damage is BROKEN! Nanoships gain 99.99% Damage resist to missile by going fast. They are going so fast due to broken damage calculations that were designed prior to nanoage that we live in now." He shouldn't have dies against a t2 cruiser that does terrible dps, and some t2 frigates that are the same. Get some skillz. They gain 99.9% resists to turrets too yah know. I don't see any tempest pilots complaining, or megathrons, or geddons....... "To the OP, make peace with the fact that currently in EvE, any of the nano ships be it - Vaga, Ishtar, Sabre (even post nerf) etc is a virtual "I Win" button, for the simple reason that your roaming pirate group can pick and chose its targets, and if they take to much damage or get outnumbered due to help arriving, simply fly off out of scram range and warp away." I win?? If your Raven is ratting, and fit to kill only NPC ships, you deserve to die in that sort of encounter. If you fit for pvp, in a raven, and die to a vagabond. Wow, that's lame. "No I don't want a OMGWTFPWN ship. The problem is anything larger than frig sized assault missiles can't hit anything that's going faster than 5000km/s." Nothing larger then a frig sized turret weapon can hit them either unless it's sniping from 150 km away. (Which is soon negated by a smart pilot by overheating and getting your butt closer.) "Suggest you listen again.. more stacking on any module that boost stats which cause speed increases. General nano setups are going to be nerfed. It's only a matter of how much and when (most likely in the upcoming "boost patch" heh)." Boost patch is fixing INTERDICTORS that are seriously overpowered. That is the ONLY case on speed that I'll listen too. "If you can't beat them, join them. I'm training for my very own speed vaga. Once everone's flying them they'll get nerfed." RIIIIGHT. Enjoy losing a ton of ISK when your vagabond dies once, and then you'll be on our side. "Your first point is a load of crap. The "My ship costs more therefore it ought to win" line is stupid and everyone knows it. Spending a lot should not = win, nor should it = "invulnerable to an entire class of weapons" and "immune to damage unless it comes from a similarly equipped ship"." Then why did they ban pirate implants in the tourney? Clearly ISK runs this game in more then one way, and you are ignorant to ignore that fact.
Commander BroudMoore Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium	Posted - 2008.01.04 17:52:00 - [59] Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Riho Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:22:21 Originally by: Riho 1st... to get theyr ships like that they have to spend alot more than you ship costs. they came whit a few ppl... that means they are frined/corp mates... mybe you should get those too and fight back ?? but no... you are whineing that you cant solo a gang of ppl.. Ok I lost to a gang of people, but one doesn't even have a fighting chance in a battleship against t2 cruisers and frigs? They weren't getting hit for ANY damage. battleships are not solopwn mobiles.... they need support. if you had a friend in a rapier/huginn/ceptor whit a web.... this would have been something else.... and allso.... the drake pilot whit you... why didnt he use precision heavys(unless he was a low skilled pilot ofc) Precision heavy missiles will do very very little damage to anything that is above 5000m/sec... explosion velocity of 1500m/sec with max skills... so Im a bit confused, if they were going that fast how did they do damage to YOU And now you are supposed to say " but that Ishtar and its nasty drones ..." , SHOOT the bloody drones, it can only have so many in its bay and once they are destroyed theres no damage left Just start using your brain people
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:20:00 - [60] Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:18:11 I'm sitting here firing cruise missile after cruise missile at these ships and I'm hitting them for 0 damage! 1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake. My medium drones can't even catch them. Something needs to be done about speed, it is out of control. When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles. A, B, C - Thread Response System A - Unnecessary whine. Please Adapt. B - Some or all of your opinions are incorrect. C - Thread already exists. D - You are correct.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:44:00 - [61] Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:18:11 I'm sitting here firing cruise missile after cruise missile at these ships and I'm hitting them for 0 damage! 1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake. My medium drones can't even catch them. Something needs to be done about speed, it is out of control. When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles. another one of you?! copy and pasting from another thread. some stuff may or may not pertain to your filth spew... so lemme get this right, if someones means of a tank is to AVOID being hit, thats cheap? Ok so we'll let all the interceptors be vulnerable to missiles, and then we'll have completely destroyed the need for speed tbqfh. Lets nerf your ability to shield or armor tank/rep. Because, quite frankly, by your example, if you can reduce the damage done to your ship then it MUST be an exploit of game mechanics!!! Get over the fact that CCP hasnt nerfed speed for the simple reason that theyre tring to get you noobs to use the ships that were made for this role. Get the info on the Rapier and Huginn. If you choose not to include these ships in your arsenal, thats your fault, not CCP's. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:45:00 - [62] Originally by: Zana Kito Originally by: Atsuko Ratu They won simply because they are better than you. It has nothing to do with missles or speed. Surely you must be used to it by now. Iwin buttons never make anyone a better player. NOS/ECM domi back in the days pwned not because players behind them were better.. cos if that was the case, they still should pwn just as much now. It's a stupid argument that people who fly clearly overpowered ships is somehow more skilled. Woahh.. it's so skillful to get some poly rigs on, overdrives and nanos in the lows and fly at hax speed.. yeah.. see how long this continues. Lets put it this way. He tryed to solo nano ships in a raven and drake. It was 5v2. Each ship probably cost more than the raven and drake combined, aside from the crows, who only out isked the drake alone. Now why should the raven and drake win? The hostiles were in tech2 ships. They were in more expensive ships. There were more of them. Not only all of this, they were in nano ships, which are pretty much designed to counter slow ass ships such as the raven and drake, even though the drake can easily solo an ishtar or vaga. People whined about the vaga for awhile, until it became common knowledge about how badly they actually suck. It does what, 200 dps, and it has to slow down to do it? Any decent cerb or drake pilot completely dominates a vaga pilot, and now only the weak complain. The raven and drake had no right to win in that battle. Every factor points to them losing in any balanced game. The opponents had them out isked, out SPed, out gunned, and countered.
Ephemeral Waves The Nine Gates	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:48:00 - [63] Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:18:11 I'm sitting here firing cruise missile after cruise missile at these ships and I'm hitting them for 0 damage! 1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake. My medium drones can't even catch them. Something needs to be done about speed, it is out of control. When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles. The speed nerf is already here. It's called a web. Mount it. Use it. Love it. Eph.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.04 20:00:00 - [64] Originally by: Zana Kito It's a stupid argument that people who fly clearly overpowered ships is somehow more skilled. Woahh.. it's so skillful to get some poly rigs on, overdrives and nanos in the lows and fly at hax speed.. yeah.. see how long this continues. They may not be smarter on the outside but at least they are acting smart. Fly ships in situations that can win. Speed is been apart of this game for a long time. Lets hope you and your sad friends don't completely ruin the game by bolstering the OP's nonsense. He lost to 1/2 bill in ships and mods and he is complaining. He clearly has no idea what he is talking about, lost his battleship and can't figure out why a couple cruisers did it. This is the sad part about eve, he has a voice some how and other people, like yourself, who haven't learned can't figure out what to do. LEAVE SPEED ALONE.... KILL THE WHINERS... NERF LE WHINE!
Ion Bartzabel Caldari Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.01.04 20:27:00 - [65] Missiles clearly needs to be boosted, when theres not a single missile out there, that can hurt much if any, on a ship that goes over 5000ms. Then you even need to calculate the factor of the ships radius. I'm a nano pilot myself, and fly around in a 12000ms ishtar.. Speed needs to be ATLEAST be nerfed on ships that arn't supposed to go that fast. Granted that cost alot of isk, but the thing is, a ishtar T2 fitted still can go 4000ms.. Curses, huginns, rapiers, ishtars... mmm.. great nano ships.
Bad Borris Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.04 20:30:00 - [66] Edited by: Bad Borris on 04/01/2008 20:30:36 oh god not another one.... take a peek at the cerberus and repeat the phrase 'horses for courses' 10 times....
Chemical Castration Chemical Castration Lotto	Posted - 2008.01.04 20:30:00 - [67] Gotta ask... what turrets can hit somebody orbiting at ~20km+ moving at 6km/s+? Just curious.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.04 20:34:00 - [68] Originally by: Chemical Castration Gotta ask... what turrets can hit somebody orbiting at ~20km+ moving at 6km/s+? Just curious. Neither, which is why you're taking no damage.
Chemical Castration Chemical Castration Lotto	Posted - 2008.01.04 20:35:00 - [69] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Chemical Castration Gotta ask... what turrets can hit somebody orbiting at ~20km+ moving at 6km/s+? Just curious. Neither, which is why you're taking no damage. Then why the complaining specifically about the missiles?
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.04 20:36:00 - [70] Originally by: Chemical Castration Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Chemical Castration Gotta ask... what turrets can hit somebody orbiting at ~20km+ moving at 6km/s+? Just curious. Neither, which is why you're taking no damage. Then why the complaining specifically about the missiles? Because the op is a single minded waste of Eve's bandwidth. In reality, missles are the counter to nanos.
Chemical Castration Chemical Castration Lotto	Posted - 2008.01.04 20:37:00 - [71] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Because the op is a single minded waste of Eve's bandwidth. That's what I thought...
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.04 20:39:00 - [72] Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 04/01/2008 20:39:20 Originally by: Chemical Castration Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Because the op is a single minded waste of Eve's bandwidth. That's what I thought... Someone will bring up the Ishtar's drones, so I'll say it now: Turrets, as well as missles, can hit the drones.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.01.04 20:40:00 - [73] Originally by: Chemical Castration Gotta ask... what turrets can hit somebody orbiting at ~20km+ moving at 6km/s+? Just curious. Depends on the situation. Accelarate up to 6km/sec as well, and you'll be shooting something with a fat sig with no transverse. Be in the other ship, that's 50-100km away, and you're shooting something with a fat sig and no transverse. The weapons work in different ways, and thus have different situational advantages. I don't have a problem with the fact that there's some situations where turrets are more useful. I do have a problem with the fact that it's possible to use your MWD as an 'invulnerability shield'. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.01.04 21:11:00 - [74] Originally by: Fedman Kasad * YOU CAN'T HIT VERY VERY FAST SHIPS WITH MISSILES, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HIT YOU BACK EITHER. What if the very very fast ships are themselves using missiles? -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.04 21:18:00 - [75] look you meat heads, if you can't hit it when its going fast, make it go slow or go away. SO MANY ways to make the target go slow, you could go insane from all the options. SO what if the guns don't track, missiles run out of fuel etc. If it goes fast you are going to miss it. WHere was the statement in the user aggrement saying that ships can always be shot at? HMM??? did i miss something that said this game was like shooting elephants in space. Its about tactics, tactics, tactics. Just cause you can take your fat stumpy finger and push the F1 key doesn't mean your opponent is going to EXPLODE ON CONTACT. It must be because people start running missions when they first play the game, it has to be. I KNOW, MAKE MWD's active for missions in deadspace. Give rats MWD's, HOLY COW. CCP I HAVE SOLVED THE NERF NANO LE WHINE BRIGADE. You are all watching as the greatest idea ever is born here... DOnt you get it. Nooblets new to the game, expect humans to act like NPC's in the missions they run, so instead of nerfing the game to the point of stupidity, make the NPC's more like HUMANS! Put MWD's, give the rats nano-ships, make it so sometimes you need webbers/neuts/web drones and this will train the lemmings. Because my god, this new group of pilots who come over from WoW keep thinking that killing boars and artificial unintelligent polygons is the best way to train to kill actual real live people, which is mind boggling.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.04 21:35:00 - [76] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Fedman Kasad * YOU CAN'T HIT VERY VERY FAST SHIPS WITH MISSILES, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HIT YOU BACK EITHER. What if the very very fast ships are themselves using missiles? Name one?
Ju Ming Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.04 21:57:00 - [77] Edited by: Ju Ming on 04/01/2008 21:57:46 Hey there The thing that any pilot needs to know would be that a Nano HAC can be killed by a BS but you as a rule need a tackler. http://killboard.igneusauctorita.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5184 Are Missiles broken? Not really they just have certain limits and strengths. Its a great deal easier to train a Spec in lets say Cruise or Torps then it is to train the turret Large options. Fly Well [url=http://www.igneusauctorita.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=42466][/url]
Commander BroudMoore Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:01:00 - [78] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Fedman Kasad * YOU CAN'T HIT VERY VERY FAST SHIPS WITH MISSILES, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HIT YOU BACK EITHER. What if the very very fast ships are themselves using missiles? Name one? I could imagine using nano's on a Sacrilege, dont know how well it would actually work though. (call me a noob)
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:08:00 - [79] Originally by: Commander BroudMoore Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Fedman Kasad * YOU CAN'T HIT VERY VERY FAST SHIPS WITH MISSILES, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HIT YOU BACK EITHER. What if the very very fast ships are themselves using missiles? Name one? I could imagine using nano's on a Sacrilege, dont know how well it would actually work though. (call me a noob) There is a ship called a nano ishtar... you know, that ship that lets its drones do damage while orbiting you nanoed. Nano curse springs to mind, as Launcher/Drone nano curse was very common before nerf. Basically Nanos are being abused by those that "drink potion of invulnerbility" that is called MWD on a nano ship. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Khorin D'tael Caldari D'tael Contracts	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:21:00 - [80] what seems unfair to me is a speed fitted ship no matter how fast it is travelling can be damaged or destroyed by guns if they lower the transversal. Missiles will never damage a speed fitted ship even if the transversal is zero. I'm not arguing the point of they can't be countered etc etc as I know they can because I fly them exclusivly on another account but the fact remains under some conditions a gun will hit a 10km/s plus ship and even do a wrecking shot and missiles could never hope to do that.
Commander BroudMoore Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:22:00 - [81] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Commander BroudMoore stuff... There is a ship called a nano ishtar... you know, that ship that lets its drones do damage while orbiting you nanoed. Nano curse springs to mind, as Launcher/Drone nano curse was very common before nerf. Basically Nanos are being abused by those that "drink potion of invulnerbility" that is called MWD on a nano ship. You do realize that both ships you used as reference use drones as their primary source for damage, dont you? Im sure you do. From your reply though I've come to the conclusion that you dont have any idea how easy drones really are to kill . Granted, Curse (being one of ship you mentioned) can use missiles, though if someone bothers to bring enough of them the get thru a BS or even BC tank with those missiles alone they deserve to get that kill.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:29:00 - [82] Originally by: Ju Ming Edited by: Ju Ming on 04/01/2008 21:57:46 Hey there The thing that any pilot needs to know would be that a Nano HAC can be killed by a BS but you as a rule need a tackler. http://killboard.igneusauctorita.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5184 Are Missiles broken? Not really they just have certain limits and strengths. Its a great deal easier to train a Spec in lets say Cruise or Torps then it is to train the turret Large options. Fly Well It seems like what you're saying here is that you NEED numeric superiority to beat a 'nano' ship. Which is ironic, given they've been continually been espoused as the countermeasure to blobbing. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Kaian Voskhod	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:35:00 - [83] /signed the amarr are far overpowered
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:35:00 - [84] Originally by: Jonny JoJo There is a ship called a nano ishtar... you know, that ship that lets its drones do damage while orbiting you nanoed. I don't know. I menaged to fend off one with a Hurricane without even T2 guns (named 180s) and a proper tank on the thing. It gave up after losing a bunch of drones. Rifters!
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards Darkness Rising Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:37:00 - [85] Originally by: Commander BroudMoore Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Commander BroudMoore stuff... There is a ship called a nano ishtar... you know, that ship that lets its drones do damage while orbiting you nanoed. Nano curse springs to mind, as Launcher/Drone nano curse was very common before nerf. Basically Nanos are being abused by those that "drink potion of invulnerbility" that is called MWD on a nano ship. You do realize that both ships you used as reference use drones as their primary source for damage, dont you? Im sure you do. From your reply though I've come to the conclusion that you dont have any idea how easy drones really are to kill . Granted, Curse (being one of ship you mentioned) can use missiles, though if someone bothers to bring enough of them the get thru a BS or even BC tank with those missiles alone they deserve to get that kill. The point is that someone shooting a missile at a Nanoship does 0 damage. The Nanoship could be a nanosacriledge. It could be a Launcher Curse. It could be a nano Cerb. It coculd even be any of those rocket/missile cepters and dictors. Tell me why people use Nano ishtars if shooting drones was so easy? I dont know about you, but most Amarr ships cannot even track drones so how do you expect it to kill them off? The point of a nanogang is exactly the same as those who used to use WCS. Risk free PvP. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:46:00 - [86] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/01/2008 22:51:11 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/01/2008 22:46:50 Originally by: Jonny JoJo I dont know about you, but most Amarr ships cannot even track drones so how do you expect it to kill them off? (a) You are a forum troll (b) You suck. I realise you may not like using webs and pulses, but let me assure that they do, in fact, track just fine. Especially after the tracking boost. 220s with Barrage M loaded have very similar tracking as Focused Medium Pulse IIs and they hit drones and, in fact, regular 5km/s Vagabonds (as long as you're moving away from them with sufficent speed) just fine with motion prediction IV. Tracking of pulses is just fine. It is you who sucks at PvP. Seriously - train some skills up. Also, preferably learn how to maneuver. Edit: here's something for you, the work of 220s with Barrage M loaded, some smart maneuvering and not so stellar interceptor pilots (yes, I did chase off a Crow on my tail as well): Malediction No web was involved; just maneuvering at top speed to kill transversal. Rifters!
Commander BroudMoore Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:52:00 - [87] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Commander BroudMoore more stuff ... The point is that someone shooting a missile at a Nanoship does 0 damage. The Nanoship could be a nanosacriledge. It could be a Launcher Curse. It could be a nano Cerb. It coculd even be any of those rocket/missile cepters and dictors. Tell me why people use Nano ishtars if shooting drones was so easy? I dont know about you, but most Amarr ships cannot even track drones so how do you expect it to kill them off? The point of a nanogang is exactly the same as those who used to use WCS. Risk free PvP. Like already said, Curse wouldnt get too much DPS out of its missile and fitting Heavy Missile Launchers instead of HAM's on Sac. would seriously GIMP its damage output and again you would need a lot of them to do anything. What comes to nanoing a Cerb, why dont you try out and tell us how it went after few ship losses Now, I dont mean to offend anyone but this has to be said. Nano Ishtar/Curce/Pilgrim/[enter your nano drone ship here] only works becose A) some nooblets panic or dont know how to shoot drones and B) there might be many ships using drones in the same gang in which case the fact that gang is nanoed doesnt really matter anymore. Regarding your statement that Amarr ships cant track drones, well I never got any problem in my geddon, just WEB and put your turrets and your own drones on them. They do go down pretty fast.
Igetshotalot THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:54:00 - [88] Originally by: Riho im just saying there are alot of counter to nano ships.... the thing i dont understand is why ppl have the obsession on killing them :P if u can make them run away... thats good allready. yeah lets just hug each other.. carebear
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 00:05:00 - [89] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Commander BroudMoore Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Commander BroudMoore stuff... There is a ship called a nano ishtar... you know, that ship that lets its drones do damage while orbiting you nanoed. Nano curse springs to mind, as Launcher/Drone nano curse was very common before nerf. Basically Nanos are being abused by those that "drink potion of invulnerbility" that is called MWD on a nano ship. You do realize that both ships you used as reference use drones as their primary source for damage, dont you? Im sure you do. From your reply though I've come to the conclusion that you dont have any idea how easy drones really are to kill . Granted, Curse (being one of ship you mentioned) can use missiles, though if someone bothers to bring enough of them the get thru a BS or even BC tank with those missiles alone they deserve to get that kill. The point is that someone shooting a missile at a Nanoship does 0 damage. The Nanoship could be a nanosacriledge. It could be a Launcher Curse. It could be a nano Cerb. It coculd even be any of those rocket/missile cepters and dictors. Tell me why people use Nano ishtars if shooting drones was so easy? I dont know about you, but most Amarr ships cannot even track drones so how do you expect it to kill them off? The point of a nanogang is exactly the same as those who used to use WCS. Risk free PvP. They could be. Until you realize that they arn't. Game is balanced so that the missle users either do ****ty DPS or can't be nanoed effectively. Obviously, you have no idea how Eve works. You are basically whining because ship A beats your ship B, so you call nerf. Luckily, I fly Drakes and Cerbs; both of which are excellent counters to nanoed ishtars and vagas. Maybe I need to be paper instead of rock to understand the issue.
burek Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.01.05 00:09:00 - [90] Some tools here keep saying "omg, isk spent shouldn't make a difference"... having a laugh aren't you? Isn't the whole point of this game to amass resource which will in return allow you to get your hands on better ** to gain advantages over your opponents? How the someone assembling a ty ***** drake has the face to whine about getting killed by someone risking much more that him is beyond me. I do agree that it shouldn't be some liner thing, more isk spent=win, but more isk spent on stuff that makes your ship better (whole point of game) + a player that has a clue how to use it, SHOULD win against some stupid nub which most of the whiners seem to be. BUT that player will still get owned if you bring the right tools to stop him. Where's the imbalance? Maybe in peoples brains?
Vaal Erit	Posted - 2008.01.05 00:36:00 - [91] All of these nano-whine threads completely fail. Equip ONE SMARTBOMB = takes the Ishtars and all enemy drones out of the picture Equip ONE HEAVY NEUTRALIZER = takes the crow and vagabonds out of the picture. You faced a team of 5 people who setup for a specific PvP goal (aka working like a team) and complain when your ratting PvE setup can't wtfbbq them? Why don't all you whiners go play something simple, like checkers.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.05 01:04:00 - [92] Edited by: Gamesguy on 05/01/2008 01:04:49 Originally by: Ion Bartzabel Missiles clearly needs to be boosted, when theres not a single missile out there, that can hurt much if any, on a ship that goes over 5000ms. Then you even need to calculate the factor of the ships radius. I'm a nano pilot myself, and fly around in a 12000ms ishtar.. Speed needs to be ATLEAST be nerfed on ships that arn't supposed to go that fast. Granted that cost alot of isk, but the thing is, a ishtar T2 fitted still can go 4000ms.. Curses, huginns, rapiers, ishtars... mmm.. great nano ships. http://www.storietime.com/gsy/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9258 Yes, thats why your overpowered nano-ishtar got soloed by a single domi.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.05 01:06:00 - [93] Originally by: Jonny JoJo The point is that someone shooting a missile at a Nanoship does 0 damage. The Nanoship could be a nanosacriledge. It could be a Launcher Curse. It could be a nano Cerb. It coculd even be any of those rocket/missile cepters and dictors. Tell me why people use Nano ishtars if shooting drones was so easy? I dont know about you, but most Amarr ships cannot even track drones so how do you expect it to kill them off? The point of a nanogang is exactly the same as those who used to use WCS. Risk free PvP. Amarr turrets cant hit drones? What you using? Tachyons?
Zana Kito Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.05 01:18:00 - [94] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Ju Ming Edited by: Ju Ming on 04/01/2008 21:57:46 Hey there The thing that any pilot needs to know would be that a Nano HAC can be killed by a BS but you as a rule need a tackler. http://killboard.igneusauctorita.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5184 Are Missiles broken? Not really they just have certain limits and strengths. Its a great deal easier to train a Spec in lets say Cruise or Torps then it is to train the turret Large options. Fly Well It seems like what you're saying here is that you NEED numeric superiority to beat a 'nano' ship. Which is ironic, given they've been continually been espoused as the countermeasure to blobbing. And in the best case scenario, unless those nano were piloted by ******s, they can simply disengage and flee at will. May as well unnerf WCS so every ship can disengage whenever they want..
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 01:21:00 - [95] Originally by: Zana Kito Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Ju Ming Edited by: Ju Ming on 04/01/2008 21:57:46 Hey there The thing that any pilot needs to know would be that a Nano HAC can be killed by a BS but you as a rule need a tackler. http://killboard.igneusauctorita.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5184 Are Missiles broken? Not really they just have certain limits and strengths. Its a great deal easier to train a Spec in lets say Cruise or Torps then it is to train the turret Large options. Fly Well It seems like what you're saying here is that you NEED numeric superiority to beat a 'nano' ship. Which is ironic, given they've been continually been espoused as the countermeasure to blobbing. And in the best case scenario, unless those nano were piloted by ****s, they can simply disengage and flee at will. May as well unnerf WCS so every ship can disengage whenever they want.. I already answered you. You can stop ***ing now.
Cybele Lanier	Posted - 2008.01.05 01:35:00 - [96] Originally by: burek Some tools here keep saying "omg, isk spent shouldn't make a difference"... having a laugh aren't you? Isn't the whole point of this game to amass resource which will in return allow you to get your hands on better The question when determining "broken-ness" is, would spending the same amount of money on a totally different setup be just as effective? (I don't actually know the answer to that, I'm asking)
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 01:36:00 - [97] Originally by: Cybele Lanier Originally by: burek Some tools here keep saying "omg, isk spent shouldn't make a difference"... having a laugh aren't you? Isn't the whole point of this game to amass resource which will in return allow you to get your hands on better The question when determining "broken-ness" is, would spending the same amount of money on a totally different setup be just as effective? (I don't actually know the answer to that, I'm asking) Basic t2 cerb with a web beats a faction fit vaga. Seems ok to me.
Xequecal	Posted - 2008.01.05 02:18:00 - [98] Edited by: Xequecal on 05/01/2008 02:22:14 Originally by: Vaal Erit All of these nano-whine threads completely fail. Equip ONE SMARTBOMB = takes the Ishtars and all enemy drones out of the picture Equip ONE HEAVY NEUTRALIZER = takes the crow and vagabonds out of the picture. You faced a team of 5 people who setup for a specific PvP goal (aka working like a team) and complain when your ratting PvE setup can't wtfbbq them? Why don't all you whiners go play something simple, like checkers. It takes 17 smartbomb hits to pop an Ishtar's Ogre II. If they are using Augmented drones, it takes 26. Smartbombs are NOT a good way to kill drones. Oh, and "just fit a heavy neut?" Most people can't. The good Raven PvP fitting with torps requires AWU V to stick a heavy neut on, which most people don't have.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 02:47:00 - [99] Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 05/01/2008 02:27:18 Edited by: Xequecal on 05/01/2008 02:25:32 Edited by: Xequecal on 05/01/2008 02:22:14 Originally by: Vaal Erit All of these nano-whine threads completely fail. Equip ONE SMARTBOMB = takes the Ishtars and all enemy drones out of the picture Equip ONE HEAVY NEUTRALIZER = takes the crow and vagabonds out of the picture. You faced a team of 5 people who setup for a specific PvP goal (aka working like a team) and complain when your ratting PvE setup can't wtfbbq them? Why don't all you whiners go play something simple, like checkers. It takes 17 smartbomb hits to pop an Ishtar's Ogre II. If they are using Augmented drones, it takes 26. Smartbombs are NOT a good way to kill drones. Oh, and "just fit a heavy neut?" Most people can't. The good Raven PvP fitting with torps requires AWU V to stick a heavy neut on, which most people don't have. And yes, speed is a problem when it comes to missiles. Any ship that goes faster than 7500m/sec can not be damaged by missiles period. No amount of bad flying will allow any missile to damage the target as long as it stays at 7500m/sec or faster. For cruiser-size ships and up, going faster than 4000m/sec means missiles can not realistically damage you. Lights and rockets will still hit but you're in a cruiser, you shrug those off. It's broken as hell that all you need to do is reach X speed point and you're invulnerable to the most common weapon system in the game. The bloody Sleipnir can go fast enough without any expensive implants that cruise missiles are doing 33% normal damage to it and medium drones can't catch it. That's when you warp in 2-3 abaddons and instapop it.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection	Posted - 2008.01.05 03:16:00 - [100] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Zana Kito Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Ju Ming Edited by: Ju Ming on 04/01/2008 21:57:46 Hey there The thing that any pilot needs to know would be that a Nano HAC can be killed by a BS but you as a rule need a tackler. http://killboard.igneusauctorita.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5184 Are Missiles broken? Not really they just have certain limits and strengths. Its a great deal easier to train a Spec in lets say Cruise or Torps then it is to train the turret Large options. Fly Well It seems like what you're saying here is that you NEED numeric superiority to beat a 'nano' ship. Which is ironic, given they've been continually been espoused as the countermeasure to blobbing. And in the best case scenario, unless those nano were piloted by ****s, they can simply disengage and flee at will. May as well unnerf WCS so every ship can disengage whenever they want.. I already answered you. You can stop ***ing now. Just curious. Where did you repond to the WCS comment? If escaping battles means you win, as many people state. Why not unnerf WCS, then we can all avoid combat with each other and ALL be winners. Also if you feel any real hate for people bringing up any game mechanic for discussion, check yourself. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.05 03:42:00 - [101] Originally by: Gorefacer If escaping battles means you win, as many people state. Why not unnerf WCS, then we can all avoid combat with each other and ALL be winners. Haha, very good point. There are too few valid ways of 100% nailing and killing a fast nano hac. All the counters that DONT kill the nano are not valid because its like you said, "WCS-***** runs = you win?". I mean lets compare WCS and nano ships. Lets say we allowed WCS again. How to kill a stabbed ship? Bring a dictor. No dictor = he runs = you win (atleast some are of the oppinion that you win if they run)? How to kill a nano hac? Bring a huggin. No huggin = he runs = you win? Yeah its basically the same problem, nano-fanboys just dont wanna lose their i-win-buttons. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 03:43:00 - [102] Originally by: Gorefacer Just curious. Where did you repond to the WCS comment? If escaping battles means you win, as many people state. Why not unnerf WCS, then we can all avoid combat with each other and ALL be winners. Also if you feel any real hate for people bringing up any game mechanic for discussion, check yourself. Actually, most people say making the other target run is considered winning. I don't think I have ever seen anyone say running is winning unless you're traveling. My answer was my previous responce to that specific person. The response I gave shows, indirectly, that the current speed is nothing like WCS at all. Your fear blinds you.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 03:52:00 - [103] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Gorefacer If escaping battles means you win, as many people state. Why not unnerf WCS, then we can all avoid combat with each other and ALL be winners. Haha, very good point. There are too few valid ways of 100% nailing and killing a fast nano hac. All the counters that DONT kill the nano are not valid because its like you said, "WCS-***** runs = you win?". I mean lets compare WCS and nano ships. Lets say we allowed WCS again. How to kill a stabbed ship? Bring a dictor. No dictor = he runs = you win (atleast some are of the oppinion that you win if they run)? How to kill a nano hac? Bring a huggin. No huggin = he runs = you win? Yeah its basically the same problem, nano-fanboys just dont wanna lose their i-win-buttons. You blindly believe that which is false. To give an example, you could also bump a target that you could not scramble. There are other ways to kill a nano ship besides dumping 50 minmitar recons at it. Not only that, every ship can use webs, while every ship is not a dictor. There are massive holes in your truth. But your truth is yours, I can only try to change it.
Xequecal	Posted - 2008.01.05 03:54:00 - [104] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Gorefacer If escaping battles means you win, as many people state. Why not unnerf WCS, then we can all avoid combat with each other and ALL be winners. Haha, very good point. There are too few valid ways of 100% nailing and killing a fast nano hac. All the counters that DONT kill the nano are not valid because its like you said, "WCS-***** runs = you win?". I mean lets compare WCS and nano ships. Lets say we allowed WCS again. How to kill a stabbed ship? Bring a dictor. No dictor = he runs = you win (atleast some are of the oppinion that you win if they run)? How to kill a nano hac? Bring a huggin. No huggin = he runs = you win? Yeah its basically the same problem, nano-fanboys just dont wanna lose their i-win-buttons. You blindly believe that which is false. To give an example, you could also bump a target that you could not scramble. There are other ways to kill a nano ship besides dumping 50 minmitar recons at it. Not only that, every ship can use webs, while every ship is not a dictor. There are massive holes in your truth. But your truth is yours, I can only try to change it. Depends on the nano ship. A Vagabond can not be killed unless: - He makes an incredibly stupid mistake and gets into web range. - You have a minmatar recon. - You drop 20+ people on him. The only ships which can catch a Vaga are interceptors and it's far, FAR too easy to pop an inty in a Vaga.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 04:00:00 - [105] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Gorefacer If escaping battles means you win, as many people state. Why not unnerf WCS, then we can all avoid combat with each other and ALL be winners. Haha, very good point. There are too few valid ways of 100% nailing and killing a fast nano hac. All the counters that DONT kill the nano are not valid because its like you said, "WCS-***** runs = you win?". I mean lets compare WCS and nano ships. Lets say we allowed WCS again. How to kill a stabbed ship? Bring a dictor. No dictor = he runs = you win (atleast some are of the oppinion that you win if they run)? How to kill a nano hac? Bring a huggin. No huggin = he runs = you win? Yeah its basically the same problem, nano-fanboys just dont wanna lose their i-win-buttons. You blindly believe that which is false. To give an example, you could also bump a target that you could not scramble. There are other ways to kill a nano ship besides dumping 50 minmitar recons at it. Not only that, every ship can use webs, while every ship is not a dictor. There are massive holes in your truth. But your truth is yours, I can only try to change it. Depends on the nano ship. A Vagabond can not be killed unless: - He makes an incredibly stupid mistake and gets into web range. - You have a minmatar recon. - You drop 20+ people on him. The only ships which can catch a Vaga are interceptors and it's far, FAR too easy to pop an inty in a Vaga. To give a different perspective. Isn't it true that in order to defeat a tank, you need dps? So basically, tank is overpowered, because there is only one way to truely defeat it.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection	Posted - 2008.01.05 04:06:00 - [106] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Gorefacer Just curious. Where did you repond to the WCS comment? If escaping battles means you win, as many people state. Why not unnerf WCS, then we can all avoid combat with each other and ALL be winners. Also if you feel any real hate for people bringing up any game mechanic for discussion, check yourself. Actually, most people say making the other target run is considered winning. I don't think I have ever seen anyone say running is winning unless you're traveling. My answer was my previous responce to that specific person. The response I gave shows, indirectly, that the current speed is nothing like WCS at all. Your fear blinds you. How exactly is nano ships having speed that enables them to choose when they want to disengage from most engagements not like WCS at all? Also why would I fear fast annoying ships that I have not ever solely lost a ship to? Sad that you can't debate a topic calmly without "because I said so" statements and resorting to weak presupposition of the people you are debating against. The notion that speed is "fine" is an opinion, not a fact, sorry. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 04:07:00 - [107] Originally by: Gorefacer Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Gorefacer Just curious. Where did you repond to the WCS comment? If escaping battles means you win, as many people state. Why not unnerf WCS, then we can all avoid combat with each other and ALL be winners. Also if you feel any real hate for people bringing up any game mechanic for discussion, check yourself. Actually, most people say making the other target run is considered winning. I don't think I have ever seen anyone say running is winning unless you're traveling. My answer was my previous responce to that specific person. The response I gave shows, indirectly, that the current speed is nothing like WCS at all. Your fear blinds you. How exactly is nano ships having speed that enables them to choose when they want to disengage from most engagements not like WCS at all? Also why would I fear fast annoying ships that I have not ever solely lost a ship to? Sad that you can't debate a topic calmly without "because I said so" statements and resorting to weak presupposition of the people you are debating against. The notion that speed is "fine" is an opinion, not a fact, sorry. The notion that speed is "not fine" is an opinion, not a fact, sorry.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection	Posted - 2008.01.05 04:13:00 - [108] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Gorefacer If escaping battles means you win, as many people state. Why not unnerf WCS, then we can all avoid combat with each other and ALL be winners. Haha, very good point. There are too few valid ways of 100% nailing and killing a fast nano hac. All the counters that DONT kill the nano are not valid because its like you said, "WCS-***** runs = you win?". I mean lets compare WCS and nano ships. Lets say we allowed WCS again. How to kill a stabbed ship? Bring a dictor. No dictor = he runs = you win (atleast some are of the oppinion that you win if they run)? How to kill a nano hac? Bring a huggin. No huggin = he runs = you win? Yeah its basically the same problem, nano-fanboys just dont wanna lose their i-win-buttons. You blindly believe that which is false. To give an example, you could also bump a target that you could not scramble. There are other ways to kill a nano ship besides dumping 50 minmitar recons at it. Not only that, every ship can use webs, while every ship is not a dictor. There are massive holes in your truth. But your truth is yours, I can only try to change it. Depends on the nano ship. A Vagabond can not be killed unless: - He makes an incredibly stupid mistake and gets into web range. - You have a minmatar recon. - You drop 20+ people on him. The only ships which can catch a Vaga are interceptors and it's far, FAR too easy to pop an inty in a Vaga. To give a different perspective. Isn't it true that in order to defeat a tank, you need dps? So basically, tank is overpowered, because there is only one way to truely defeat it. Is that really your argument? All tanks fail to DPS. Resistances reduce DPS done to it. Speed CAN remove DPS done to it. They both need DPS to be defeated, except that ANY ship can add to the destruction of a resistance tank while only certain ships can create an environment where certain speed tanks will take ANY damage at all. Plus all of this completely ignores the ability to choose engagements and survivability aspect of tanks and their fittings. Again, is it "overpowered"? I don't think so. Does it improve my gameplay experience? I don't think so. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.05 04:15:00 - [109] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Gorefacer If escaping battles means you win, as many people state. Why not unnerf WCS, then we can all avoid combat with each other and ALL be winners. Haha, very good point. There are too few valid ways of 100% nailing and killing a fast nano hac. All the counters that DONT kill the nano are not valid because its like you said, "WCS-***** runs = you win?". I mean lets compare WCS and nano ships. Lets say we allowed WCS again. How to kill a stabbed ship? Bring a dictor. No dictor = he runs = you win (atleast some are of the oppinion that you win if they run)? How to kill a nano hac? Bring a huggin. No huggin = he runs = you win? Yeah its basically the same problem, nano-fanboys just dont wanna lose their i-win-buttons. You blindly believe that which is false. To give an example, you could also bump a target that you could not scramble. There are other ways to kill a nano ship besides dumping 50 minmitar recons at it. Not only that, every ship can use webs, while every ship is not a dictor. There are massive holes in your truth. But your truth is yours, I can only try to change it. Depends on the nano ship. A Vagabond can not be killed unless: - He makes an incredibly stupid mistake and gets into web range. - You have a minmatar recon. - You drop 20+ people on him. The only ships which can catch a Vaga are interceptors and it's far, FAR too easy to pop an inty in a Vaga. To give a different perspective. Isn't it true that in order to defeat a tank, you need dps? So basically, tank is overpowered, because there is only one way to truely defeat it. omfg youre a moron. Im sorry but I think your statement makes it very clear. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 04:22:00 - [110] In a "gameplay" perspective, speed needs to be included. Very few say that it makes the game worse, and quite a few depend upon it to enjoy the game. Am I a moron in your mind? You complain because webs beat speed. I merely suggested that dps beats tank. Speed in itself is another form of tank. On paper, speed is actually worse because both dps and web directly destroys the "tank", while say, a passive drake, only dies to pure DPS. In response to the "can choose when to fight or run", that can be done just as easily using a scout with any gang. If you are complaining that nano ships have the option of running during most battles, I find that to be the fault of the defender. Because speed tanks have more weaknesses than a true tank does, it gains the ability to move more freely, and thus flee. If you find this overpowering, that is no fault of CCP, but of your mind. I have never flown a nano ship aside from the crow. They improve my game play experience, and thus I defend it. That is my truth.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.05 04:26:00 - [111] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu In a "gameplay" perspective, speed needs to be included. Very few say that it makes the game worse, and quite a few depend upon it to enjoy the game. Am I a moron in your mind? You complain because webs beat speed. I merely suggested that dps beats tank. Speed in itself is another form of tank. On paper, speed is actually worse because both dps and web directly destroys the "tank", while say, a passive drake, only dies to pure DPS. In response to the "can choose when to fight or run", that can be done just as easily using a scout with any gang. If you are complaining that nano ships have the option of running during most battles, I find that to be the fault of the defender. Because speed tanks have more weaknesses than a true tank does, it gains the ability to move more freely, and thus flee. If you find this overpowering, that is no fault of CCP, but of your mind. I have never flown a nano ship aside from the crow. They improve my game play experience, and thus I defend it. That is my truth. Dude, interceptors are not the problem. The problem is hacs going 4-7km/s. Your comparison about dps beats tank with nano ships is very flawed and Im too tired to explain it. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 04:31:00 - [112] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Atsuko Ratu In a "gameplay" perspective, speed needs to be included. Very few say that it makes the game worse, and quite a few depend upon it to enjoy the game. Am I a moron in your mind? You complain because webs beat speed. I merely suggested that dps beats tank. Speed in itself is another form of tank. On paper, speed is actually worse because both dps and web directly destroys the "tank", while say, a passive drake, only dies to pure DPS. In response to the "can choose when to fight or run", that can be done just as easily using a scout with any gang. If you are complaining that nano ships have the option of running during most battles, I find that to be the fault of the defender. Because speed tanks have more weaknesses than a true tank does, it gains the ability to move more freely, and thus flee. If you find this overpowering, that is no fault of CCP, but of your mind. I have never flown a nano ship aside from the crow. They improve my game play experience, and thus I defend it. That is my truth. Dude, interceptors are not the problem. The problem is hacs going 4-7km/s. Your comparison about dps beats tank with nano ships is very flawed and Im too tired to explain it. I was talking about all nano ships. I would much perfer them to stay the same. They add valuable variation to the plain combat system of Eve. Is it flawed? I suppose being tired impairs one's ability to make minimal movements with one's fingers.
Deathnail	Posted - 2008.01.05 06:24:00 - [113] Risk free PvP? um yah thats called EFT - Warrior.
joshmorris Ravenous Inc. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.05 10:54:00 - [114] Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:18:11 I'm sitting here firing cruise missile after cruise missile at these ships and I'm hitting them for 0 damage! 1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake. My medium drones can't even catch them. Something needs to be done about speed, it is out of control. When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles. ishtar = 100 mill , vagas 100 each .. so 200 .. w/ rigs prolly looking 480 and meh crows Compared to max 200 mill raven and 60 drake ... They out number you .. out price you .. and problily out skill you ... but you moan about missiles ... RAILS OR BLASTERS cant hit either (and we have to say really rails because blasters arnt really comparable to cruise) !!!!! So stfu. Put a heavy neutraliser II on your raven , nano the drake a little and put duel webs on .. then laugh as u pwn them. Uber idea solves all !!
Igetshotalot THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.05 11:17:00 - [115] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Cybele Lanier Originally by: burek Some tools here keep saying "omg, isk spent shouldn't make a difference"... having a laugh aren't you? Isn't the whole point of this game to amass resource which will in return allow you to get your hands on better The question when determining "broken-ness" is, would spending the same amount of money on a totally different setup be just as effective? (I don't actually know the answer to that, I'm asking) Basic t2 cerb with a web beats a faction fit vaga. Seems ok to me. i actually use a standart assault missile cerb w/ precision and explor velocity rigs.. inflicts some serious dmg on vagas.. anyway even overloding your web you rarely got to catch a vaga... an no mather how many isk i out into my cerb.. i do nt get closer to actually kill it...
Ally Poo Infiltrators	Posted - 2008.01.05 11:18:00 - [116] Ive taken down a vagabond in my raven with no tackler. i call them T2 missiles with "your t2 fitted raven". PS: 1 ishtar, 2 vaga's and a 2 crows would smoke a raven and drake... ===============Sleep is for the Dead===============
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.01.05 11:24:00 - [117] Originally by: joshmorris Edited by: joshmorris on 05/01/2008 10:55:57 Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:18:11 I'm sitting here firing cruise missile after cruise missile at these ships and I'm hitting them for 0 damage! 1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake. My medium drones can't even catch them. Something needs to be done about speed, it is out of control. When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles. ishtar = 100 mill , vagas 100 each .. so 200 .. w/ rigs prolly looking 480 and meh crows Compared to max 200 mill raven and 60 drake ... They out number you .. out price you .. and problily out skill you ... but you moan about missiles ... RAILS OR BLASTERS cant hit either (and we have to say really rails because blasters arnt really comparable to cruise) !!!!! So stfu. Put a heavy neutraliser II on your raven , nano the drake a little and put duel webs on .. then laugh as u pwn them.... yes you will have to .. adapt but then u wont die .... Your STFU adapt mantra is one used by everyone, flying overpowered ships, ever. However, ok. So, lets take the same scenario: A T2 fitted Raven (or if you really feel so inclined a Golem), and a Drake. Or Nighthawk, as you seem to consider pricetag a relevance. I mean, these _are_ missile ships, and they're they ones being complained at. How would you fit these two ships for the purpose of engaging a nano ishtar and a vagabond? (And by 'engaging' I mean in a sense that doesn't mean you're better off just staying docked) -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 16:32:00 - [118] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: joshmorris Edited by: joshmorris on 05/01/2008 10:55:57 Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:18:11 I'm sitting here firing cruise missile after cruise missile at these ships and I'm hitting them for 0 damage! 1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake. My medium drones can't even catch them. Something needs to be done about speed, it is out of control. When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles. ishtar = 100 mill , vagas 100 each .. so 200 .. w/ rigs prolly looking 480 and meh crows Compared to max 200 mill raven and 60 drake ... They out number you .. out price you .. and problily out skill you ... but you moan about missiles ... RAILS OR BLASTERS cant hit either (and we have to say really rails because blasters arnt really comparable to cruise) !!!!! So stfu. Put a heavy neutraliser II on your raven , nano the drake a little and put duel webs on .. then laugh as u pwn them.... yes you will have to .. adapt but then u wont die .... Your STFU adapt mantra is one used by everyone, flying overpowered ships, ever. However, ok. So, lets take the same scenario: A T2 fitted Raven (or if you really feel so inclined a Golem), and a Drake. Or Nighthawk, as you seem to consider pricetag a relevance. I mean, these _are_ missile ships, and they're they ones being complained at. How would you fit these two ships for the purpose of engaging a nano ishtar and a vagabond? (And by 'engaging' I mean in a sense that doesn't mean you're better off just staying docked) A drake specifially counters the vaga. It gets a bonus to the vagas lowest resist, and can easily make 4-5 of them run away, and possibly manage to kill at least 1. Nighthawk has the same ease with a better tank. I fail to see their imbaness.
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2008.01.05 17:16:00 - [119] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: joshmorris Edited by: joshmorris on 05/01/2008 10:55:57 Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:18:11 I'm sitting here firing cruise missile after cruise missile at these ships and I'm hitting them for 0 damage! 1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake. My medium drones can't even catch them. Something needs to be done about speed, it is out of control. When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles. ishtar = 100 mill , vagas 100 each .. so 200 .. w/ rigs prolly looking 480 and meh crows Compared to max 200 mill raven and 60 drake ... They out number you .. out price you .. and problily out skill you ... but you moan about missiles ... RAILS OR BLASTERS cant hit either (and we have to say really rails because blasters arnt really comparable to cruise) !!!!! So stfu. Put a heavy neutraliser II on your raven , nano the drake a little and put duel webs on .. then laugh as u pwn them.... yes you will have to .. adapt but then u wont die .... Your STFU adapt mantra is one used by everyone, flying overpowered ships, ever. However, ok. So, lets take the same scenario: A T2 fitted Raven (or if you really feel so inclined a Golem), and a Drake. Or Nighthawk, as you seem to consider pricetag a relevance. I mean, these _are_ missile ships, and they're they ones being complained at. How would you fit these two ships for the purpose of engaging a nano ishtar and a vagabond? (And by 'engaging' I mean in a sense that doesn't mean you're better off just staying docked) It is impossible to kill a ratting fitted raven/drake/NH with ishtar/vaga. Nevermind pvp setups. Ishtar fails because it's drones are easy to kill. standard 3 OD, 2 poly vagas cannot keep their speed up forever and they have to slow down. Generally it is a waste of ammo/time, when trying to engage a raven in a vagabond. Oh, and fit your raven like this: 6 cruise, 2 heavy neut mwd, heavy cap booster, 2-3 lse, 0-1 web 1 warp disruptor rcus to make it fit, rest bcus rigs shield extender are probably the best, but not really needed. What can a vagabond do against that? Ishtar is more secure thanks to cap injectors, but they will lose their drones/escape the first moment you put your neut on them.
wierchas noobhunter Cosmic Fusion When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.05 17:39:00 - [120] ohhh man u guys keep amaze me .... no single clue how game works ... just try to fly nano ships your self and u will see how overrated they are
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:01:00 - [121] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter ohhh man u guys keep amaze me .... no single clue how game works ... just try to fly nano ships your self and u will see how overrated they are Solo yes they arent as fancy as people think but in gangs they are i-win-buttons. Thats the way it is and thats the reason why my absolution is sitting in the hangar half the time while i only fly my nano ships in 0.0 ops. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:06:00 - [122] Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 05/01/2008 18:08:52 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: wierchas noobhunter ohhh man u guys keep amaze me .... no single clue how game works ... just try to fly nano ships your self and u will see how overrated they are Solo yes they arent as fancy as people think but in gangs they are i-win-buttons. Thats the way it is and thats the reason why my absolution is sitting in the hangar half the time while i only fly my nano ships in 0.0 ops. That says more about your personal skill than the game tbh. I have yet to see a situation where having a nano ship would have been better than a falcon, or drake, or a BS. Maybe if you're running. I have a feeling that all you do is run, so you think it's an I-WIN button. Edit: Oh look, you killed a nano ishtar with an absolution on my killboards. ******* hacked ishtar.
wierchas noobhunter Cosmic Fusion When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:07:00 - [123] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: wierchas noobhunter ohhh man u guys keep amaze me .... no single clue how game works ... just try to fly nano ships your self and u will see how overrated they are Solo yes they arent as fancy as people think but in gangs they are i-win-buttons. Thats the way it is and thats the reason why my absolution is sitting in the hangar half the time while i only fly my nano ships in 0.0 ops. there is no difference what u fly in blobs tbh ....
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:14:00 - [124] You either don't post your killmails with nano ships, or you're full of ****, because your killboard has nothing but absolution and other random amarr ships. If I had to guess, you have never flown a vaga, or an ishtar. In short: you're a moron.
wierchas noobhunter Cosmic Fusion When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:17:00 - [125] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu You either don't post your killmails with nano ships, or you're full of ****, because your killboard has nothing but absolution and other random amarr ships. If I had to guess, you have never flown a vaga, or an ishtar. In short: you're a moron. maybe he like everyone here got combat alts that fly minmatar ships ?
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:19:00 - [126] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Atsuko Ratu You either don't post your killmails with nano ships, or you're full of ****, because your killboard has nothing but absolution and other random amarr ships. If I had to guess, you have never flown a vaga, or an ishtar. In short: you're a moron. maybe he like everyone here got combat alts that fly minmatar ships ? He needs to say "my alt flys nano ships even though I have recent kills with a ship that I said I never fly anymore" instead of "I only fly nano ships and not the ships on the recent killmails."
wierchas noobhunter Cosmic Fusion When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:22:00 - [127] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Atsuko Ratu You either don't post your killmails with nano ships, or you're full of ****, because your killboard has nothing but absolution and other random amarr ships. If I had to guess, you have never flown a vaga, or an ishtar. In short: you're a moron. maybe he like everyone here got combat alts that fly minmatar ships ? He needs to say "my alt flys nano ships even though I have recent kills with a ship that I said I never fly anymore" instead of "I only fly nano ships and not the ships on the recent killmails." ope if he would rp then he could say my alt flys bla bla but cos he is person behind chars its all a ok
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:24:00 - [128] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Atsuko Ratu You either don't post your killmails with nano ships, or you're full of **, because your killboard has nothing but absolution and other random amarr ships. If I had to guess, you have never flown a vaga, or an ishtar. In short: you're a moron. maybe he like everyone here got combat alts that fly minmatar ships ? He needs to say "my alt flys nano ships even though I have recent kills with a ship that I said I never fly anymore" instead of "I only fly nano ships and not the ships on the recent killmails." ope if he would rp then he could say my alt flys bla bla but cos he is person behind chars its all a ok My point is, he is not** "keeping his absolution in the hanger" because he has very recent kills with it. He was lieing.
Jhered Stern Caldari Starlancers Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:32:00 - [129] Yep, you got pawned! Now as far as the arguments go about modules, impants and this nano stuff, well I think it's pretty balanced. However, I think the biggest problem in EVE to date is with people who buy ISK online. Bottom line is, it creates an imbalance in the game. People who buy isk have no fear or respect for winning or losing and thus will go out and spend millions using mommy or daddy's credit card and just slap a multi million doallar ship together, kill a few hundred people lose their ship and run the credit card again. This of course wrecks havoc on the technical support team at CCP because mommy and daddy are calling them left and right wanting to know why they have three to four $60+ dollar charges on their credit cards in one month. The poor guy at CCP who has to maintain his cool for the sake of customer service is sitting beack thinking "GOD these people are stupid! Take that dam card away from the kid!". Of course most of the "nano kids" today are "milinials" (thats the kids born in the 90's and comming of age in the mellinium, for those of you who never log off of EVE and keep up with current events) and feel they are entitled to the card and do not need to earn anything in life. Everything should be given to them because they are special. So the bottom line is, if your a noob in a T1 ship and you got your ass handed to you by 5 spoiled rotten kids in overly expensive ships then thats life. However, if you happen to be a milinial too then I guess all you have to do is go tell your mom what happened and she will call CCP and have all your ships and gear reembursed. Because your special! Your a milinieal! YARRRR! Jhered Out!
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:35:00 - [130] Originally by: Jhered Stern Yep, you got pawned! Now as far as the arguments go about modules, impants and this nano stuff, well I think it's pretty balanced. However, I think the biggest problem in EVE to date is with people who buy ISK online. Bottom line is, it creates an imbalance in the game. People who buy isk have no fear or respect for winning or losing and thus will go out and spend millions using mommy or daddy's credit card and just slap a multi million doallar ship together, kill a few hundred people lose their ship and run the credit card again. This of course wrecks havoc on the technical support team at CCP because mommy and daddy are calling them left and right wanting to know why they have three to four $60+ dollar charges on their credit cards in one month. The poor guy at CCP who has to maintain his cool for the sake of customer service is sitting beack thinking "GOD these people are stupid! Take that dam card away from the kid!". Of course most of the "nano kids" today are "milinials" (thats the kids born in the 90's and comming of age in the mellinium, for those of you who never log off of EVE and keep up with current events) and feel they are entitled to the card and do not need to earn anything in life. Everything should be given to them because they are special. So the bottom line is, if your a noob in a T1 ship and you got your ass handed to you by 5 spoiled rotten kids in overly expensive ships then thats life. However, if you happen to be a milinial too then I guess all you have to do is go tell your mom what happened and she will call CCP and have all your ships and gear reembursed. Because your special! Your a milinieal! YARRRR! Jhered Out! Fooled you! I steal my credit cards from other moms! *PS: I do not steal credit cards.
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.05 20:16:00 - [131] I agree with the OP. The speed issue is imbalanced, not because things fly too fast but because it's almost impossible to counter and it doesn't take millions in implants. Speed up tech II small drones significantly, speed up missiles or turret tracking, lengthen the range and power of webs or something along any of those lines to provide a counter to it. As it is, there is none. Boost Amarr
Xequecal	Posted - 2008.01.05 21:42:00 - [132] I do fly nano ships. I know exactly what the issue is. I can run a Sacrilege with 2x MAR II, 2x OD II. I am completely immune to missile fire unless I get webbed. Completely. Immune. Heavy missiles and up do no damage whatsoever and repping frigate class missile damage is trivially easy. Also, as long as I'm not stupid enough to do a straight-line approach to something, I'm pretty much immune to turret fire originating within 50km of me as well. Medium turrets cannot hit me. Small turrets hit me, but the damage is easily repped.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.05 21:48:00 - [133] Originally by: Xequecal I do fly nano ships. I know exactly what the issue is. I can run a Sacrilege with 2x MAR II, 2x OD II. I am completely immune to missile fire unless I get webbed. Completely. Immune. Heavy missiles and up do no damage whatsoever and repping frigate class missile damage is trivially easy. Also, as long as I'm not stupid enough to do a straight-line approach to something, I'm pretty much immune to turret fire originating within 50km of me as well. Medium turrets cannot hit me. Small turrets hit me, but the damage is easily repped. Thats bull***. My 3.8km/sec sac gets raped by preciosion heavies, you can rep the damage as long as you got cap booster charges, but to say you take no/little damage is utterly wrong. Medium turrets cannot hit you? The other day a CVA armageddon* was tracking me about 1/3-1/2 the time with freaking megapulse(might've been dual heavy pulse, dunno).
Parsenon	Posted - 2008.01.05 22:26:00 - [134] Originally by: L70Rogue When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles. I wouldn't mind seeing a few alternatives to fitting BCUs, such as modules that affect the missile velocity and/or flight time (perhaps one that does both, with scripts like the sensor booster), and a module to affect explosion velocity and radius (again with the scripts). Perhaps unscripted modules (much like signal amps or BCUs) for lows and some scripted ones for mids that have more effect, such that you could have an active "super BCU" or "super" version of the other modules I described. The active versions would actually hurt most missileboats' ability to tank. To an extent, we've already got these modules for guns, but not for missiles. I've never understood why not.
Parsenon	Posted - 2008.01.05 22:33:00 - [135] Originally by: Zana Kito And so your idea is to make eve a game of "buying your way to iwin buttons?" Oh get over it, already! He basically conceded to you that skill is not the primary factor. Most people don't come by that much ISK in days or even weeks, so at least it should give them a damn good likelyhood of escaping destruction. I don't like it much either but do yourself a favor and get over it. This isn't gonna change no matter how much you nerf the game.
Parsenon	Posted - 2008.01.05 22:37:00 - [136] Originally by: Fedman Kasad * YOU CAN'T HIT VERY VERY FAST SHIPS WITH MISSILES, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HIT YOU BACK EITHER. If they have missiles, why couldn't they?
VB Sarge The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.05 22:40:00 - [137] It's not a black and white comparison of "guns have these mods, but missiles only have this mod" to effect performance. You have to look at more than that, and THAT is what is frustrating about this arguement. It keeps going round and round because people are unwilling to look at things outside of their happy little world. Missiles have SKILLS that boost explosion radius and velocity, as well as travel speed, and travel time, and rate of fire. They have a module that boosts rate of fire and damage. Missiles don't miss, but can by mitigated with speed. Missiles hit anywhere from 0km to max. Missiles also can use any damage type and focus in on that damage type. Turrets have skills that boost rate of fire, tracking speed, damage, and optimal and falloff. They have mods that increase optimal and falloff, damage, and tracking. Turrets also miss, are also mitigated by speed, and are limited to damage type done. I honestly don't see where the Imbalance is between Missiles and Turrets. Missile users want modules that boost explosion radius, speed, and basically every other characteristic of their missiles. It's all covered by skills. Not wanting to put time into those skills should mean you are not allowed to talk in this debate. Same goes for turret skills. If all skills are even, the Turrets will have just as much trouble hitting a fast ship as missile users, but when the target slows down, turrets will still miss, while missiles wont. Missiles don't need a boost, and speed doesn't need a nerf. There are counters, and if Drakes were able to start smacking ships set up for speed with their missiles, I'd seriously quit, because Eve would have gone to a level of ridiculous beyond what I would be willing to accept. Unless you are willing to sacrifice mid slots for missile boosting mods, which would usher in a whole new era of whining. Even then, it might be too much imbalance in favor of missiles. What is the easiest weapon to get to fire above 150km? Missiles. What weapon can fire the furthest in the entire game? Missiles. What is the only weapon that doesn't lose any damage based on range? Missiles. So why do Missiles need a boost? They are also the easiest to get T2 versions as well. Sounds like Missiles are almost overpowered as they are now to be honest. (not really I think they are fine, but still, think before opening your mouth, or letting your fingers touch the keyboard) www.the-bastards.com
Audio Bully	Posted - 2008.01.05 23:09:00 - [138] Do get it right that you are comparing 2 complete ship types with completely different mechanics etc. You died to a race which is superior to your race in pvp? hard luck mate, end of __________________________________________________ Great being Amarr, Minmatar, and Caldari isn't it?
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.05 23:29:00 - [139] Originally by: Xequecal Oh, and "just fit a heavy neut?" Most people can't. The good Raven PvP fitting with torps requires AWU V to stick a heavy neut on, which most people don't have. . These are all lies fallacies and just poor PVP skill, and have nothing to do with reality. I dont have AWU V and i fit 6 siege and 1 heavy neut just fine, you are just wrong flat you FAIL FAIL FAIL. You don't know what you are talking about so stop posting, everything else you said is more garbage than a jersey dump
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.05 23:43:00 - [140] Originally by: Xequecal Since it is required to get a web on me to have any chance at killing me, to facilitate my death the opponent needs to have a ship that goes faster than I do. It just turns it into a stupid speed race where the fastest side wins. So the only combat senario you can think of is 2 ships drag racing down a direction in space? SO basically the WHOLE GAME OF EVE IS either the Daytona 500 or NOPI Nationals? What kind of octane do you run in your fictious nanoship. WHo is your dady and what does he do. Cause you obviously have never played this game outside EFT
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.06 00:01:00 - [141] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Atsuko Ratu You either don't post your killmails with nano ships, or you're full of **, because your killboard has nothing but absolution and other random amarr ships. If I had to guess, you have never flown a vaga, or an ishtar. In short: you're a moron. maybe he like everyone here got combat alts that fly minmatar ships ? He needs to say "my alt flys nano ships even though I have recent kills with a ship that I said I never fly anymore" instead of "I only fly nano ships and not the ships on the recent killmails." ope if he would rp then he could say my alt flys bla bla but cos he is person behind chars its all a ok My point is, he is not** "keeping his absolution in the hanger" because he has very recent kills with it. He was lieing. Did you also check how many kills i have in my nano hacs + nano ceptors? Compare that to my absolution kills and youll see that I wasnt bending the truth at all. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.06 00:04:00 - [142] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/01/2008 00:04:01 Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Edit: Oh look, you killed a nano ishtar with an absolution on my killboards. ******* hacked ishtar. Did I solo the ishtar? --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Maeltstome Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.06 00:35:00 - [143] Originally by: L70Rogue Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/01/2008 07:18:11 I'm sitting here firing cruise missile after cruise missile at these ships and I'm hitting them for 0 damage! 1 ishtar, 2vagabonds and 2 crows should not be able to take down a t2 fit raven and drake. My medium drones can't even catch them. Something needs to be done about speed, it is out of control. When is the speed nerf coming? Or please boost missiles. I'm sitting here, doing 3.5k/s in my battleship and still taking full damage from torps. My medium drones got insta popped by each volley of missiles and his smartbomb. Something needs to be done about missiles, the stealth boosts due to nano-f@ggage have gone too far. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Maeltstome Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.06 00:38:00 - [144] Originally by: Megadon Speed up tech II small drones significantly Proper drone skills (which 90% of caldari lvl 5 whiners don't have) let warrior II's travel at around 8k/s. ------- [12:07] w33Daz: a trained 1 skill fur 24 mins n it took 2 days aff drones lvl 5 [12:07] w33Daz: A WIS LIKE WTF
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.06 00:47:00 - [145] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Did you also check how many kills i have in my nano hacs + nano ceptors? Compare that to my absolution kills and youll see that I wasnt bending the truth at all. You have 4 kills in a malediction and 1 kill in a zealot, compared to 18 in an absolution. I rest my case.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.06 00:49:00 - [146] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Did you also check how many kills i have in my nano hacs + nano ceptors? Compare that to my absolution kills and youll see that I wasnt bending the truth at all. You have 4 kills in a malediction and 1 kill in a zealot, compared to 18 in an absolution. I rest my case. Uhm what killboard you looking at? Ive changed corp and alliance quite recently so it might be a bit messy tbh. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.06 01:43:00 - [147] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Did you also check how many kills i have in my nano hacs + nano ceptors? Compare that to my absolution kills and youll see that I wasnt bending the truth at all. You have 4 kills in a malediction and 1 kill in a zealot, compared to 18 in an absolution. I rest my case. Uhm what killboard you looking at? Ive changed corp and alliance quite recently so it might be a bit messy tbh. http://www.dark-rising.co.uk/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=43820
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising	Posted - 2008.01.06 02:25:00 - [148] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Did you also check how many kills i have in my nano hacs + nano ceptors? Compare that to my absolution kills and youll see that I wasnt bending the truth at all. You have 4 kills in a malediction and 1 kill in a zealot, compared to 18 in an absolution. I rest my case. Uhm what killboard you looking at? Ive changed corp and alliance quite recently so it might be a bit messy tbh. http://www.dark-rising.co.uk/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=43820 Well that explains it, Im very new in dark-rising and ive just recently been flying abso because Im doing the second part of my movie series. Sadly my ex corp kb is broken so I cant link the truth about what ships ive flown but if you dont belive me you dont, nothing i can do about it. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
MalVortex	Posted - 2008.01.06 02:30:00 - [149] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Xequecal I do fly nano ships. I know exactly what the issue is. I can run a Sacrilege with 2x MAR II, 2x OD II. I am completely immune to missile fire unless I get webbed. Completely. Immune. Heavy missiles and up do no damage whatsoever and repping frigate class missile damage is trivially easy. Also, as long as I'm not stupid enough to do a straight-line approach to something, I'm pretty much immune to turret fire originating within 50km of me as well. Medium turrets cannot hit me. Small turrets hit me, but the damage is easily repped. Thats bull***. My 3.8km/sec sac gets raped by preciosion heavies, you can rep the damage as long as you got cap booster charges, but to say you take no/little damage is utterly wrong. Medium turrets cannot hit you? The other day a CVA armageddon* was tracking me about 1/3-1/2 the time with freaking megapulse(might've been dual heavy pulse, dunno). I'm not really weighing in on the debate here, but a max skilled Cerberus pilot with 2x Warehead Flare Catalysis and Heavy precisions will have an explosion velocity of 1983.75m/s. Against a target flying 3800m/s, total damage will be 23.081% of normal, before resists. With 3x BCUII and no implants, that Cerberus pilot will have a maximum DPS output of 294 with scourge precision heavies. That means he will be doing 67.85dps before resists. A Sacrileges, with no tanking or resist mods of any kind, has an average of 70.95% resist across shield and armor, cutting that Cerbs DPS from 67.85 to 19.71dps. To claim heavy precision missiles, max skilled, complete with 2x flare catalysts, will "rape" a sacrilege maintaining its speed is a considerable exaggeration. Your actual combat results, will, of course, vary depending on webbing and ability to maintain speed... But they will still never approach "lulz, raped" given the numbers you provided. For example: A base, max skilled, completely unfit Sac will take nearly 137seconds of missile fire from that Cerb Pilot to drop your shields and armor with no resistance mods, plates, reppers, speed, or sigradius reductions.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.06 02:41:00 - [150] Edited by: Gamesguy on 06/01/2008 02:42:50 Originally by: MalVortex Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Xequecal I do fly nano ships. I know exactly what the issue is. I can run a Sacrilege with 2x MAR II, 2x OD II. I am completely immune to missile fire unless I get webbed. Completely. Immune. Heavy missiles and up do no damage whatsoever and repping frigate class missile damage is trivially easy. Also, as long as I'm not stupid enough to do a straight-line approach to something, I'm pretty much immune to turret fire originating within 50km of me as well. Medium turrets cannot hit me. Small turrets hit me, but the damage is easily repped. Thats bull***. My 3.8km/sec sac gets raped by preciosion heavies, you can rep the damage as long as you got cap booster charges, but to say you take no/little damage is utterly wrong. Medium turrets cannot hit you? The other day a CVA armageddon* was tracking me about 1/3-1/2 the time with freaking megapulse(might've been dual heavy pulse, dunno). I'm not really weighing in on the debate here, but a max skilled Cerberus pilot with 2x Warehead Flare Catalysis and Heavy precisions will have an explosion velocity of 1983.75m/s. Against a target flying 3800m/s, total damage will be 23.081% of normal, before resists. With 3x BCUII and no implants, that Cerberus pilot will have a maximum DPS output of 294 with scourge precision heavies. That means he will be doing 67.85dps before resists. A Sacrileges, with no tanking or resist mods of any kind, has an average of 70.95% resist across shield and armor, cutting that Cerbs DPS from 67.85 to 19.71dps. To claim heavy precision missiles, max skilled, complete with 2x flare catalysts, will "rape" a sacrilege maintaining its speed is a considerable exaggeration. Your actual combat results, will, of course, vary depending on webbing and ability to maintain speed... But they will still never approach "lulz, raped" given the numbers you provided. For example: A base, max skilled, completely unfit Sac will take nearly 137seconds of missile fire from that Cerb Pilot to drop your shields and armor with no resistance mods, plates, reppers, speed, or sigradius reductions. Now run those numbers with an orbitting speed of 3km/s.
Shaenra	Posted - 2008.01.06 03:23:00 - [151] If there is the will, there is a simple solution instead of tweaking this module and that implant and dealing with the 1001 unintended consequences: set a maximum speed per ship (or ship class), and whatever modules are fitted on the ship you simply can't go over that speed limit. Set the speed limit so that the game combat mechanics works as intended by the devs, whatever that is. If you need to rationalize it, then it's the speed at which your ship starts falling apart, plates fall off, avionics melts, implants drop out of the capsuleers eyeballs, etc. In fact it could even be implemented in a way that the max. speed is not hardcoded but your ship start taking heavy damage when flying over its speed limit.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.06 03:45:00 - [152] Originally by: Shaenra If there is the will, there is a simple solution instead of tweaking this module and that implant and dealing with the 1001 unintended consequences: set a maximum speed per ship (or ship class), and whatever modules are fitted on the ship you simply can't go over that speed limit. Set the speed limit so that the game combat mechanics works as intended by the devs, whatever that is. If you need to rationalize it, then it's the speed at which your ship starts falling apart, plates fall off, avionics melts, implants drop out of the capsuleers eyeballs, etc. In fact it could even be implemented in a way that the max. speed is not hardcoded but your ship start taking heavy damage when flying over its speed limit. No. This destroys the sandbox feel that makes Eve popular. -Liang -- Originally by: "QProQ" When they said to put 'stabs on your 'cane, they meant GYROSTABS!
WowZilla The Leeroy Jenkins Project	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:43:00 - [153] The solution to this problem is simple, easily solved and requires no nerfing of speed or boosting of missile. In fact no changes to game mechanics are required at all. It is a solution that will please all sides so we can have a big group hug, realising that diluting the game with changes makes it a worse game and eventually will destroy it. Whats this? I hear you ask. A solution to killing/hurting/defending against nano ships that requires no change? It simple. Use what you have at your disposal. - A BS, in a small gang, without at least one Heavy Neutraliser fitted is SUICIDE. Really guys, if you cant see that then sorry but you should not have authority to post here. It not only deters (and potentially disables) nano ships but it will also keep any tackling interceptors away. Dont want to fit one? Well then, prepare to die. These should be standard fit. - Webs, yeh yeh I hear you ask. Webs wont always save me. No they wont. But goddam in a small gang you need em. Seriously. - Huggins/Rapiers - Speciality ships. Overheat your webs webs/disrupters to pull em into the honey pot for a few seconds and then cool them down. Man i've trapped countless of nano ships in my huggin (which is nanoed btw) for my gang mates to kill. - Drones - Drones kill drones. Use them against a nano ships drones. - Target painters. Not the best module for it but they certainly can help. - T2 Assualt Launchers (NOT heavies) with precisions, ex. fitted to a cerb, will hurt nano ships, especially ceptors. - ECM - I still cant beleive specialty e/w ships are not seen as much as they should be in gangs. - I could go on. Fact is, standard cookied cutter setups where you do F1-F8 and have standard tank/gank setup dont cut it anymore. You need to mix it up a bit. You have to THINK. You have the tools at your disposal - use them. Failure to accept this shows you dont really understand the modern eve game. Sorry, but thats FACT. Thank the lord almighty for nanoships. Without them there would be no variety in any pvp at all anymore. With those flying nano ships and those flying against them. Otherwise its just go head to head and press fire. Now that would make me a sad panda :( ______________________ I am the worst poaster
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:24:00 - [154] Originally by: WowZilla The solution to this problem is simple, easily solved and requires no nerfing of speed or boosting of missile. In fact no changes to game mechanics are required at all. It is a solution that will please all sides so we can have a big group hug, realising that diluting the game with changes makes it a worse game and eventually will destroy it. Whats this? I hear you ask. A solution to killing/hurting/defending against nano ships that requires no change? It simple. Use what you have at your disposal. - A BS, in a small gang, without at least one Heavy Neutraliser fitted is SUICIDE. Really guys, if you cant see that then sorry but you should not have authority to post here. It not only deters (and potentially disables) nano ships but it will also keep any tackling interceptors away. Dont want to fit one? Well then, prepare to die. These should be standard fit. This. You lost your every right to whine about losing a BS (lol) to a nano-ship when you didn't fit a neut. Lack the fitting skills? Train skills and/or use implants; you should have very good fitting skills if you are going to PvP in a BS anyway. Battleships are not supposed to be noob-friendly. Don't want to reduce your precious DPS by using highslots? Well, cry me a river. It's like saying 'I fitted 5 gyrostab IIs on my Tempest and it doesn't tank very well now' and refusing to fit a proper tank on because it messes up the DPS. Refusing to fit intelligently so you can have EFT numbers as high as possible is Originally by: WowZilla - Webs, yeh yeh I hear you ask. Webs wont always save me. No they wont. But goddam in a small gang you need em. Seriously. This. No web = don't cry about not being able to hit/kill nanoships. Also, neuted ships are preety damn easy to get into webrange if you've got a MWD on you ;) Originally by: WowZilla Fact is, standard cookied cutter setups where you do F1-F8 and have standard tank/gank setup dont cut it anymore. You need to mix it up a bit. You have to THINK. You have the tools at your disposal - use them. Failure to accept this shows you dont really understand the modern eve game. Sorry, but thats FACT. Thank the lord almighty for nanoships. Without them there would be no variety in any pvp at all anymore. With those flying nano ships and those flying against them. Otherwise its just go head to head and press fire. Now that would make me a sad panda :( I'm for one pleased you have to actually think about your fits. Rifters!

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