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The slow death of the Directional Scanner as a tool

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Sarkkon	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:16:00 - [91] I agree. The scanner changes to basic ship scanner have made it prectically useless. Removal of wrecks crippled the player salvage industry. You could tell a big war figth going on from smacktalk usually in local. But if they not fighting at a gate (planet or moon) the wreck salvagers cant find them and many t2 wrecks go unsalvaged. Most of these fights are rolling battles and they rarely stay arround to salvage (or even loot) these wrecks often remain untouched and time out. Finding unclaoked war targets is almost impossible with ship scanner now too (you could at least get an idea where to drop the scan probe before) Only thing the scanner seems good for now is seeing the 300-400 abandoned rookie ships in system (can we start removing these?) And for getting a kick out of all the profane and inappropriate ship names. ( I just love answering my 8 year when he asks what these refrences to genitalia mean)
Thumper Tallen PAK	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:24:00 - [92] Siigari, that vid sucks man. First off, Im assuming youre trying to highlight the suckiness of each feature (or lack thereof) when you move your mouse around it erratically. The first station you try to scan....out of scan range (hi, you can only scan 14.4au). When you were trying to scan that belt on 5 degree and you couldn't, then you zoomed out and BAM, on 5 degree. Granted I know the graphics are beautiful, but unless youre fapping over the beauty of your Ishkur, you really shouldnt have the camera that close anyways. Also, you get angry at the fact that you couldnt get that other Ishkur on scan, maybe thats because it warped away. You also get mad at the whole F11 overview thing doing something, not sure what exactly you were trying to point out about it, not like Ive seen anyone really use that thing in a tactical situation, but I digress on that one. Ive been playing for going on 4.5 years and have never had any problems with the scanner, nor do I really have any now.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:36:00 - [93] The scanner is still useful if the operator is competent. It is a shame that such a hi-tech ship has basically a WWII-era radar display that can't give range/bearing to decloaked targets requiring manual input of range values to isolate (after all--don't I have a crew to handle that stuff?). Oh well...as long as ships/drones still show up thats all I need . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.07 15:05:00 - [94] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Kelron Queldine What, because mission runners are the only people who ever get probed? I assume scan probes still show on unfiltered scan, so it's not like you can't tell if you're being probed. It would simply be easier if they could be included on a filtered scan. Exactly. It doesn't need to be any easier. Searching through a large list of irrelevant objects is an inconvenience, not a skill. If I think I'm being probed, I'm going to make damn sure I don't miss a probe on the list, but why do I have to strain my eyes to make sure? --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.07 15:17:00 - [95] Scanner tool does need a lot of work. For example, you can't really choose to look at only ships and probes without a lot of other crap filling up your results.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.01.07 15:28:00 - [96] Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Kelron Queldine What, because mission runners are the only people who ever get probed? I assume scan probes still show on unfiltered scan, so it's not like you can't tell if you're being probed. It would simply be easier if they could be included on a filtered scan. Exactly. It doesn't need to be any easier. Searching through a large list of irrelevant objects is an inconvenience, not a skill. If I think I'm being probed, I'm going to make damn sure I don't miss a probe on the list, but why do I have to strain my eyes to make sure? Because otherwise people will just always have probes on all of their scanner settings as a matter of course. That's ridiculous. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Lucy Light	Posted - 2008.01.07 15:35:00 - [97] /signed please fix I like to eat one nutella sandwich for breakfast
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.07 15:50:00 - [98] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Kelron Queldine Searching through a large list of irrelevant objects is an inconvenience, not a skill. If I think I'm being probed, I'm going to make damn sure I don't miss a probe on the list, but why do I have to strain my eyes to make sure? Because otherwise people will just always have probes on all of their scanner settings as a matter of course. That's ridiculous. Then either remove them entirely or make then filterable. I'd find either acceptable, but if I can see something on my scanner I want to be able to filter it. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Garat Mant Minmatar Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2008.01.07 15:57:00 - [99] ooh, that's what we need, linked gang scanning. Skill based, in the leadership group. Ability to link multiple ship's scanners together to improve their range/power/accuracy. Man I'd love to be able to efficiently triangulate and lock down targets in a gang... -G -- CEO, Moons Of Pluto industrial corporation. Recruiting mature players!
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol The Fifth Race	Posted - 2008.01.07 16:30:00 - [100] Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 07/01/2008 16:33:05 To the posters, yeah I know it was a little hokey and I was moving slow etc, but there's a reason that I was selecting things and clicking and scanning etc. The reasons were to show simply, that the game is changing and is changing the scanner with it (and lol at the station, but my point was you can't scan them anyway). I then moved into a part where I did active scanning, and that should have shown you in real-time, how I do scan. I know what I'm doing, the first part was just to be dramatic and aoohohohohhh poor eve players lol. :P Cut me some slack. And yes, the hostile ishkur warped away, and I was just frustrated at him warping away, not that I couldn't scan him out. A 60 degree scan into a complex should be fine. edit- Oh, to answer your question about the mapbrowser (f11), the mapbrowser now shows either a blown up rendition of the system, or a very teensy tiny version, which is frustrating when you enter a new system and need to find out-of-scan spots fast. That's all that was showing. To fix the mapbrowser when you jump into a new system, simply click the system in the constellation section that you're in, and it will fix the size in the system section. _________________ Burn.
abbagabba Gallente Monster Raving Loonies	Posted - 2008.01.07 16:40:00 - [101] I agree with Bellum, being able to filter for probes would be a huge blow to people trying to scan down mission runners. Pirates mainly rely on peoples laziness and mistakes, if you are running a hard mission, it is quite strenuous to be scanning a big list of stuff to spot a probe, therefore it gets neglected by those who are careless and they get caught. Adding them to the overview would make constantly scanning for probes so easy that all low-sec mission runners would get into the habit of doing it constantly. I sympathise with the problems this causes salvagers as well. My noob corp mate started out flying round 0.0 in a little frigate picking up peoples left overs, that job has just become much more difficult. I used to farm cosmic anomalies in 0.0 and I used to pop every wreck as soon as I made it, thus avoiding giving any intel to the pirates. Wrecks on the overview was an important strategic element in many activities and if you didnt want them there, simple solution. This element has been removed with no explanation. That such a major change to 'THE TOOL for pirates' (/signed OP) or 'THE TOOL for anyone without their head in the sand' was not in the patch notes is not acceptable. Give the scanner some loving. As for all the quirks like the 5 degree reset, yeah, stop introducing new bugs to it as well :)
The Economist	Posted - 2008.01.07 16:50:00 - [102] I agree with most of the op. Two of the changes that have ****ed me off the most in recent memory are the removal of wrecks from the scanner and most of all the moving of the system radar thing to the bloody F11 map. Why?! What on earth was wrong with it being a part of the scanner window? Now I have to fly around with the damn f11 map taking up a chunk of my screen and get to enjoy the experience of it reloading every time I jump through a gate. Oh and this connects to another crap feature I've wanted changed for a loooong time....buddy list on/offline notifications. [let us toggle them on and off ffs - i've had to delete over 1000 buddies per char, including important war targets whose online status I need to know to avoid death, just so that 90% of fights i'm in aren't characterized by a column of red and green sodding portraits taking up the right side of my screen.] Here's what happens all too frequently: jump into a system, f11 map reloads, hit 360 scan while looking at the f11 map to see what bodies are in range. Get result, go to mouse over the f11 map....oh hello there mr. green/red portrait, how nice of you to obscure a significant portion of said map and buy my target the crucial seconds needed to notice me in local and hit warp/cloak! Combine this with a little standard 0.0 lag (meaning the portraits stick on screen for longer than necessary), a healthy buddy list with people regularly going on/offline and the odd fleet/gang logon/offski and you have a recipie for a serious headache and a broken keyboard. Awesome work lads, great forethought there. The other crap change imo is the removal of wrecks from the scanner, making finding where people are/have been/will be next even harder. Wasn't it easy enough for npc and miner types to escape already? All they have to do is look at local and hit cloak/warp/ctrl+q, whereas the attacker has to actually find them. Thanks for taking away another tool that gave a tiny yet crucial time reduction in finding your target before they vanish from space. Awesome work once again.
Ikthorn Balhar Veto.	Posted - 2008.01.07 17:37:00 - [103] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 07/01/2008 16:33:05 I then moved into a part where I did active scanning, and that should have shown you in real-time, how I do scan. I know what I'm doing, the first part was just to be dramatic and aoohohohohhh poor eve players lol. :P Cut me some slack. And yes, the hostile ishkur warped away, and I was just frustrated at him warping away, not that I couldn't scan him out. A 60 degree scan into a complex should be fine. From what I recall in the video (which I deleted after watching twice), you scanned the in the direction of the complex once, possibly twice while looking for the Ishkur, and you took forever. Doing that, then claiming 'I know what I'm doing' is a contradiction. When I'm scanning targets down, I'm clicking the scan button like it's giving me free cash. Because situations change in a heartbeat (say, he gets 4 or 5 friends in warp to him), it pays to know what your target is doing, specially if he warps out while you're still in route to his last location. Constantly hitting the scan button and rotating your view around when targets disappear will often times tell you the direction he's headed, which lets you align the second your drop off warp and warp towards the next celestial object, or give intel to the other tacklers in your gang if you're not solo. While some of your complains might seem valid to those who have trouble using the scanner, I still think that most of your problems are that you just haven't gotten the hang of it, so now 'CCP must fix!'. Other than the 'degrees reset' bug, the scanner works fine; it's the people complaining about it that seem to be 'broken'.
F90OEX	Posted - 2008.01.07 18:23:00 - [104] WTB a functional scanner
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol The Fifth Race	Posted - 2008.01.07 18:30:00 - [105] Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 07/01/2008 18:31:36 Originally by: Ikthorn Balhar While some of your complains might seem valid to those who have trouble using the scanner, I still think that most of your problems are that you just haven't gotten the hang of it, so now 'CCP must fix!'. Other than the 'degrees reset' bug, the scanner works fine; it's the people complaining about it that seem to be 'broken'. K, well, I seem to be pretty efficient with the scanner, I've never had problems tracking down targets or anything until recently, when I have had to zoom out with a few ships with problemed axis since Trinity. And honestly, it's not as bad as it seems in the video. I overdramatized it for a reason. That's not usually how I scan. I'm usually right on top of things scanning down 360/180/30/5/. And yeah, I mash the scanner button in warp just like everyone else. Fraps brings my computer to a skiddy halt though and makes it hard for me to move the mouse around (you saw how jerky it was). I have an old amd 2600+ (2.0ghz). I threw that video together on a whim. No post-processing or anything fancy. All it was doing was showing some of the glitches like the mapbrowser enlargement and the scanning degree issue with ship center. If you don't have a problem with the scanner that's fine, but listen to the many people in here who I am fairly certain know how to use the scanner that are seeming to have some issues with it (all things considered). _________________ Burn.
Feilamya Minmatar Against all Rules SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2008.01.07 18:44:00 - [106] Edited by: Feilamya on 07/01/2008 18:46:01 Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 05/01/2008 18:59:30Finally, you have messed up the center of ship axis and made it difficult for us to scan unless you zoom all the way out and click on the ship. You used to be able to do it from any camera angle, but (and I'm using the updated graphics btw) now it's a pain to just point and scan. At least this seems to have been fixed. But I'm using the "old" graphics... Otherwise, signed. BTW: Any official statement about the "no wrecks/cans on scanner" nerf yet? Remember this was not in the patch notes... -- My wishlist to CCP: If it's not broken, don't break it. If it's broken, don't **** it up completely.
Fenderson Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2008.01.07 19:32:00 - [107] /signed the nerfed scanner is the worst things to happen to 0.0 roaming gangs. at the very least, bring back the system map, wrecks, and stations. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Oh dear, how about we all calm down a bit instead?
Ikthorn Balhar Veto.	Posted - 2008.01.07 20:39:00 - [108] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Also, what I have quoted you saying I have received in a very condescending way. Please do not condescend to me when you don't even know me, and you have only a very small slice of a demonstration which I have made for the PURE purpose of showing people what is wrong with something. If you perceived my tone as condescending, I'm sorry. However, your video does a very poor job of showing what your perceive as broken, and paints your scanning skills in a very poor light, if you 'seem to be pretty efficient with the scanner'. Don't 'overdramatize' stuff, just show it as it is. As you presented it, you seemed to be another person who's not that great at scanning claiming that the scanner is too difficult to use, and therefore broken.
Vrabac Amarr BALKAN EXPRESS	Posted - 2008.01.07 21:12:00 - [109] /signed
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.07 21:25:00 - [110] Quote: I agree with Bellum, being able to filter for probes would be a huge blow to people trying to scan down mission runners. Pirates mainly rely on peoples laziness and mistakes, if you are running a hard mission, it is quite strenuous to be scanning a big list of stuff to spot a probe, therefore it gets neglected by those who are careless and they get caught. Adding them to the overview would make constantly scanning for probes so easy that all low-sec mission runners would get into the habit of doing it constantly. Exactly, and this is precisely why it should happen. If anything, scanning out and jumping mission runners is far too easy, which is why no one really missions in low sec anymore. You can scan for probes now of course, but not using any filters, but it feels like a cludgy work around for a poorly designed tool. Making it easier would make it harder for pirates to jump mission runners unawares, which I think we all agree needs to happen so that more people feel like they can run missions in low sec in some degree of safety, and thus perhaps turn low sec into something other than the desolate wasteland so much of it is.
Hul'ka Minmatar BALKAN EXPRESS	Posted - 2008.01.08 02:03:00 - [111] Originally by: Ulstan Quote: I think we all agree needs to happen so that more people feel like they can run missions in low sec in some degree of safety, and thus perhaps turn low sec into something other than the desolate wasteland so much of it is. you got to be kidding me.. low sec is far from wasteland. you don't have to go there, just open map and set filters to show pilots/jumps/ship destroyed in low sec systems and you'll see how much fun you can have there. Finding someone on a mission is hard as it is, since you can't probe out wrecks. Only thing you must decide when you know by the wrecks that guy is on a mission is - do I feel lucky enough to probe him out before he finishes his mission. And if someone is going to probe him out he will do it knowing or not knowing he is on a mission.. hint or two: push that scan button once in a while. you can't say that sitting in one place watching those npc explore is the only fun you are hawing in there. Look fro probes, look for ships in space and where they are, look look look in addition - be aligned to some station ot savespot. at first sign of trouble warp out. There is nothing, and i mean nothing that can catch you if you are carefull and smart. Hell, smart is an overkill.. --------- I want to phew phew
Apul MadeekAoud Clandestine Interstellar Solutions Sempiternus	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:41:00 - [112] Originally by: Digital Anarchist As for stations not showing on scanner, that's a great thing. The less clutter, the better. Don't tell me you can't see where a station is. Actually, I'd be happy if no cellestial objects showed on scan (unfiltered), that way one could more easily see things like probes or drones.[/quote all you need to do is make a pre-set overview setting to turn off stations, AB, gates, then make sure you have "use overview settings" checked so they don't show up. It takes 5 minutes to make the setup and 3 sec to change to it to scan. I do it all the time and it works fine for me. [url=?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=730] [/url]
Sruogius Minmatar Bitynas	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:03:00 - [113] /signed
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:09:00 - [114] I want my attached map back. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:40:00 - [115] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: umop 3pisdn CCP are trying to remove static belts and nerf nano ships... dont expect them to help pvpers out any time soon. I mean.. Really.. WTF are we going to do once EVERYONES in a deadspace area... take a probe ship out solo? great. Oh and local will always be there, so good luck finishing a probe cycle before everything is safe. They just gave us ships with infinite scram points... we will get the carebears where it hurts the most.... the gates The heavy interdictors are the coolest thing I've seen. We had 3 BS wailing on a corpmate's Phobos and we couldn't bring it's tank down Pretty bad battleships you have there it seems.... ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Blitz'Krieg Caldari SkyMarshal Logistics iMune Empire	Posted - 2008.01.08 21:52:00 - [116] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny The heavy interdictors are the coolest thing I've seen. We had 3 BS wailing on a corpmate's Phobos and we couldn't bring it's tank down You say this like its a good thing but do you REALLY think it is? I respect your corp as one of the few steadfast (and none tard like) pirate corps out there and you as much as most must hate the death of solo pvp. There are so many ships now that are really really difficult to take down solo that its untrue. From passive tanks to unbelievable rig / boost setups to capital ships taking a ship down who knows what he is doing has become a real problem solo. When you add to that the deminishing returns on ship loot compared with your ship cost and it makes for a difficult atmosphere for nt only solo pvp but making money through that. I think it is this more than anything that has led to gank culture now, with t2 rigged ships becoming the norm and costing 200 mil but the average kill only making you 20 - 40 mil you need to be pulling in a 5 - 10 to 1 kill ratio to break even. OFC well chosen t1 ship setups with t2 fitting, and being careful of what targets you chose will lower the ratio needed and give you the ability to make some money if you are decent, but when you do this you have to discount so many fights that it becomes tiresome.

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