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FAO: SF & U'K (concerning PAK 0.0 policy)

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Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.07 19:50:00 - [31] Originally by: GoGo Yubari What is different about Providence is that it is not a regular 0.0 territory, but under the rule of regimes who operate a free space policy What a bizarre statement... Under the rule of regimes who operate a free space policy. This isn't possible by definition of free space. I think you are confused about your own goals, not to mention free space ideals.
zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.07 20:37:00 - [32] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf I'm aware of UK's goals, just because you don't recognize me does not mean I do not know you. coward, post with your real name and stand behind your words. Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf It appears that UK is unwilling to sacrifice security standing to uphold their goals otherwise this policy of killing those who associate with the enemy would stand in lo-sec. It also appears the UK is unwilling to expend ISK on war-declarations to assault those who support their enemies. with this statement you proved - to be a coward, not daring to use a name that could be held responsible - to know sh1t about UK ; someone who says we dont spend ISK for the cause has truly no clue. Concord has a almost 4 year old record of non-stop multi corporation / alliance war - we fought until this very day against forces that exceed our numbers and your imagination by far and this ist cost intense enough. donations welcome. the fact that we limit our NBSI to the slaver lands "providence" is logical enough and doesnt need to be justified. if UK pilots stick to it displays military discipline abd the ability to follow orders. also it clearly shows that we are not after cheap kills but after weakening the enemies support. we still differentiate, we tell you the key to survival you can take it or leave it. further strategies would certainly not be discussed here or with you. it is not important that you understand or approve our motives.
GoGo Yubari PAK	Posted - 2008.01.07 20:45:00 - [33] Originally by: Tecam Hund Originally by: GoGo Yubari What is different about Providence is that it is not a regular 0.0 territory, but under the rule of regimes who operate a free space policy What a bizarre statement... Under the rule of regimes who operate a free space policy. This isn't possible by definition of free space. I think you are confused about your own goals, not to mention free space ideals. If letting folks who aren't your known enemies into your space isn't free space, I don't know what is. I'm really sorry but members of Star Fraction do not own the trademark on the concept of free space. You have your own strange views and the rest of cluster has their's. There's no confusion about our goals. What the **** are they to you anyway? PAK is recruiting!
Maggot Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.07 20:47:00 - [34] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf It appears that UK is unwilling to sacrifice security standing to uphold their goals otherwise this policy of killing those who associate with the enemy would stand in lo-sec. It also appears the UK is unwilling to expend ISK on war-declarations to assault those who support their enemies. Again, the way things appear is that almost everyone is an enemy of UK, UK simply selects who they will and will not take up arms against from amongst a target list that includes almost everyone. Even the Federation and Republic have business dealings with the Empire and of course CONCORD itself is guilty by way of being partly run by Amarrians. It appears that you would have the Matari people at war with the entirety of civilized space in an effort to free your brothers, freedom at the price of extinction. Thankfully while this seems to be the theory the practice is not all-out war. You do not follow your own philosophy. This leads to two questions. What is it that makes PAK an agreeable target, and not State, Federation, and Republic capsuleer organizations who are clearly, by UK definition, supporters of the Empire? Why are UK not camping the gates into and out of "slaver" space (or within their lo-security systems) destroying ships piloted by those with positive standing to the "slaver" factions? U'K has currently 4 CONCORD sanctioned wars in place. We will add and remove them as we see fit based on current objectives. U'K will attack whomever it deems priority in order to achieve the ultimate goal of ending slavery across the galaxy. U'K's policy in Providence and Catch has been clearly stated on many occasions. U'K does on many occasions attack those with high standing as you describe. I wish we had fewer enemies to be honest but sadly the Ammarian forces have bullied or bribed all around them into supporting their practices. PAK fighting piracy in Providence will help the slaver forces further. You have a simple choice to turn your back on slavery and keep out of Providence. Only an idiot with no understanding of the situation would claim U'K are acting like pirates, or someone who just enjoy's smearing our name. Maggot.
Kabajashi San Minmatar Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.07 21:05:00 - [35] Political dispute is an euphemism when it comes to millions of our brothers suffering. Politics is what Midular does, it has nothing to do with the way of the tribes. I know I won't convince you, Mr. Kehmor, I am looking forward to meeting you in space with only the better (or the more numerous) leaving the battlefield. But please at least understand why we do this. When alliances like yours enter a slaver controlled area, live there, do business there, hunt pirates and what else, they, with or without intention, lead to an economic growth in that area. In a slavery based economic system this economic growth will lead to an increased demand for slave labor, thus either leading to more slave raids or at least make the freedom for our brothers less likely. What UK tries to do is to make the price match the damage caused, in other words that the pain inflicted on our brothers is matched by the pain we inflict to the slavers. When you and others like you bring economic growth and prosperity to a region like Providence you, with or without intention, bring more pain to our brothers forcing us to inflict more pain to the Amarr. This conflict would very soon be other if all the other civilized entities would ban slavery and stop trading with the slavers. I predict it wouldn't last a year until the last one of our brothers and sisters would be back home. This is why we fight you and any so called neutral in Providence. Our fight might mean nothing to you but it means everything to us. There is nothing in this fight that would define us as pirates. To Mr, Blackleaf: No, I don't recognize you. You should earn a name in battle before you expect otherwise. There is no use exchanging words with someone whose only intention is to slander the name of the UK. Concord will one day recognize the right of our brothers to live free and unharmed or it will have to stand against the united front of the tribes.
GoGo Yubari PAK	Posted - 2008.01.07 21:06:00 - [36] Originally by: Maggot PAK fighting piracy in Providence will help the slaver forces further. You have a simple choice to turn your back on slavery and keep out of Providence. Well, actually, it may sound controversial to certain parties, but it'll help you as well. You'll have to plow through the pirates as well when you do your "business" there. Even if you have standings to most, there's plenty of them around. PAK is recruiting!
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.07 21:48:00 - [37] GoGo. Part of the 'price' for operating in the area is opening yourself up to heckling from our detractors. My advice? Use the thick skin approach. Should they attempt to bite, simply yank out their teeth.
Tecam Hund Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.07 22:30:00 - [38] Originally by: GoGo Yubari Originally by: Tecam Hund Originally by: GoGo Yubari What is different about Providence is that it is not a regular 0.0 territory, but under the rule of regimes who operate a free space policy What a bizarre statement... Under the rule of regimes who operate a free space policy. This isn't possible by definition of free space. I think you are confused about your own goals, not to mention free space ideals. If letting folks who aren't your known enemies into your space isn't free space, I don't know what is. I'm really sorry but members of Star Fraction do not own the trademark on the concept of free space. You have your own strange views and the rest of cluster has their's. There's no confusion about our goals. What the **** are they to you anyway? However strange that might sound, space policed by self-appointed dictators certainly isn't my definition of free space. Although everyone is entitled to their views of course. Who am I to take away someone's right to ignorance.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.07 22:35:00 - [39] Originally by: GoGo Yubari If letting folks who aren't your known enemies into your space isn't free space, I don't know what is. The above remark covers BoB, Goonswarm, RA and pretty much every 0.0 territorial alliance since the Outer Worlds were colonised by capsuleers. Almost all such have let people who were not their known enemies into 'their' space so long as rules imposed by them were observed. It's not free space to permit those who bow to a given set of rules into a given volume of space. We don't claim a 'trademark' on the concept of free space but we do reserve to ourselves the right to point out when the term is being abused. As a matter of fact, incidentally, it is fairly rare to see any CVA personality claim that Providence is 'free space'. They at least are quite clear about their intention to rule it as a proxy province of a tyrannical empire. I'm sorry your transition from pirate to mercenary and finally to anti-pirate has resulted in you losing sight of some fundamental truths, GoGo. However, you're right, what you do is nothing to us unless you actually take hostile action against us. This will include, for completeness, reporting our movements in CVA intelligence channels should you ever be admitted to them. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Kelsin	Posted - 2008.01.07 22:35:00 - [40] Originally by: GoGo Yubari If letting folks who aren't your known enemies into your space isn't free space, I don't know what is. The irony of "letting" someone into "your space" and calling it free should be apparent. Freecaptains don't need barbed wire, checkpoints and patrols. Free space doesn't come with conditions and it doesn't require permission to enter. It may look like a pretty necklace now, but once you have it on I think you'll find it has a leash attached.
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.07 22:50:00 - [41] GoGo it may appear in theory that your attacks on 'pirates' would help all who have business in Providence, on either side of the conflict, but reality is far different. There are very few true pirate groups in Providence, and certainly none at all that hamper U'K's goals there. There are of course many groups friendly to our cause labled pirates by the slavers and their holders. I'll be interested to see who comes under fire from your forces. -----------------------------------------
GoGo Yubari PAK	Posted - 2008.01.07 22:54:00 - [42] Originally by: Karn Mithralia I'll be interested to see who comes under fire from your forces. You will, apparently. Be seeing you. PAK is recruiting!
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:31:00 - [43] Originally by: Maggot PAK fighting piracy in Providence will help the slaver forces further. You have a simple choice to turn your back on slavery and keep out of Providence. As stated, if you controlled providence we would offer you the same terms. The short comings of your alliance and your inability to fight CVA on your own are frankly none of our concern. PAK is recruiting!
Anjinsansa Caldari IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.01.08 00:24:00 - [44] GoGo, As a Providence resident and part of an alliance who is directly opposed to both of these entities whom you have chosen to address, I feel that I may be in a position to help in your understanding of the beasts that are SF and UK and at the very least cut through some of the facade displayed and the rhetoric consistently vomited by these two, and actually get to the point. Anti pirate activity by corps and alliances wishing to conduct their business in Providence is, i'm sure, encouraged by all the good peoples of the region and your announcement of intent around our home is in the first instance, welcomed. (Notwithstanding any previous difficulties between you and the CVA or Holders of which I am currently unaware of course :)). It should be understood that UK are not a realistic threat within Providence at this time. Their power is very much diminished and all neutrals throughout the cluster should note that conducting business in Providence is not half as risky as UK would have you believe. If you are a neutral and you encounter a UK member in Providence they will endeavour to kill you. There is no question of this, as ridiculous and self defeating as it is, this is their policy. But you will be hard pushed to see any UK unless you travel through Severance home systems in the KBP pocket where they are currently conducting an audacious but ultimately futile effort to regain sovereignty. So PAK members, UK will shoot you, simple as that. My advice is set UK red. The situation with Star Fraction is a little more complex for you, but immeasurably worse for Star Fraction. They will be beside themselves with your announcement to conduct anti-pirate activities in Providence. It would give Ms Constantine a major headache if your forces meet UK and SF together in the field and this is most likely as they have been working hand in hand for some months now. What would they do? Defend their supposed brothers in arms as you and UK take pot shots at each other? UK would certainly expect them to. Or do they cast aside UK who have almost outdid their usefulness as spies and cannon fodder in the Fractionites game of chance with Providence and risk losing an ally, however ineffective they may be. Ms Constantine regards herself as a talented diplomat and master manipulator and I'll wager will be contacting you privately soon, if she has not already done so to try and work some advantage for her and hers. Do not be fooled. The Fractionites declared intent is to remove the sovereign powers from Providence and create their twisted idea of 'freespace', which to all right minded peoples would be defined as lawless chaos and a haven for those very pirates that you and we intend to see off. My advice therefore, is set SF red. There can be no higher or more noble cause than bringing peace, order and prosperity to Providence and for those in need, bringing heavenly light where darkness once reigned. Shooting UK and SF may not achieve all of this, but it's a start.
Maggot Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.08 00:37:00 - [45] Originally by: Kehmor Originally by: Maggot PAK fighting piracy in Providence will help the slaver forces further. You have a simple choice to turn your back on slavery and keep out of Providence. As stated, if you controlled providence we would offer you the same terms. The short comings of your alliance and your inability to fight CVA on your own are frankly none of our concern. Sorry I fail to link your insults to my response.
GoGo Yubari PAK	Posted - 2008.01.08 00:54:00 - [46] Originally by: The Cosmopolite It's not free space to permit those who bow to a given set of rules into a given volume of space. We don't claim a 'trademark' on the concept of free space but we do reserve to ourselves the right to point out when the term is being abused. As a matter of fact, incidentally, it is fairly rare to see any CVA personality claim that Providence is 'free space'. They at least are quite clear about their intention to rule it as a proxy province of a tyrannical empire. You will never arrive to a situation where there are literally no restrictions. Freedom does not lie in denying reality, but rather in creatively accepting it. Neither does freedom exist in itself, nor can't it be found or measured in any way. It's just a human concept, a feeling and an empowerment to fulfill yourself. Too often the mythical Star Fraction free space sounds to me like simple anarchy with no rules or enforcement except that which you choose to impose on yourself. There's plenty of such places already. The galactic 0.0 frontier, for one. Any single moment of your existance, for another. Of course, you'll just have to deal with the consequences of your actions as everywhere. To think otherwise that there is some place where infinite options exist with zero consequences is madness. I don't personally mind the vast abyss of nothingness that is uninhabited space. I quite like it. Yet, I come to pockets of civilization or the the centers of the empires to find that which can never be found in places where there are no others, no rules, no communities, no nothing. These things do not restrict me except momentarily, but they empower me far and long. I'm as perfectly free as one can be, given common sense, but even so there are things I choose to restrict myself in. I choose and you get to watch. It's time to quit striving and whining and just dare to be free. It really shouldn't be that difficult for a capsuleer. Originally by: Anjinsansa If you are a neutral and you encounter a UK member in Providence they will endeavour to kill you. There is no question of this, as ridiculous and self defeating as it is, this is their policy. But you will be hard pushed to see any UK unless you travel through Severance home systems in the KBP pocket where they are currently conducting an audacious but ultimately futile effort to regain sovereignty. So PAK members, UK will shoot you, simple as that. My advice is set UK red. The situation with Star Fraction is a little more complex for you, but immeasurably worse for Star Fraction. They will be beside themselves with your announcement to conduct anti-pirate activities in Providence. It would give Ms Constantine a major headache if your forces meet UK and SF together in the field and this is most likely as they have been working hand in hand for some months now. What would they do? Defend their supposed brothers in arms as you and UK take pot shots at each other? UK would certainly expect them to. Or do they cast aside UK who have almost outdid their usefulness as spies and cannon fodder in the Fractionites game of chance with Providence and risk losing an ally, however ineffective they may be. U'K has been set red not because of any opinions expressed on this forum, but due to diplomacy privately conducted between us. I personally regret that it has come to this (and the door remains open), but will prosecute the resulting pre-emptive fire policy with no complaints. SF remains neutral and will not be fired upon. If they choose to wage a war against the local powers, we'll have to stay out of it. We're no-one's blunt instrument to be wielded as they choose in political battles nor (perhaps contrary to certain opinions) a rabid pack of wolves looking for any excuse for a fight. If we encounter a mixed gang of U'K and SF, I'm sure it'll be interesting. Providence is now back on our list of patrol destinations. PAK is recruiting!
Daelin Blackleaf	Posted - 2008.01.08 00:59:00 - [47] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 08/01/2008 01:05:33 Originally by: zoolkhan coward, post with your real name and stand behind your words. This is my real name. I'm simply relatively new to GalNet. Thanks for the warm welcome. I didn't say you don't spend ISK for "the cause" I implied there are limits and want to know where they are. I also don't care about your motives. My primary concern is the risk you may pose, now or in the future, to the people and economy of the EVE cluster. Originally by: Maggot I wish we had fewer enemies to be honest but sadly the Ammarian forces have bullied or bribed all around them into supporting their practices. Ah, a far saner response, my thanks. As stated what I am trying to achieve here is a clear view of the threat posed by UK to myself, my business, and the general public. The root of that seems to be finding out what makes a person or organization a valid UK target. The answer seems to be having business with faction that endorses slavery. So basically, the rest of the cluster is only safe so long as we stay low on your priority list? I hope the men, women, and children of the State, Federation, and Republic are fairly low down on your list, though from what I see here would it be far from the truth to say that you would murder millions of these innocent people if it were in the interests of freeing your people? It's interesting, until stumbling upon this thread I have always respected, if not supported, the Minmatar and their fight for freedom. I never realized the sickening truth behind it. Freedom at any price, even if it means turning the entire cluster against your own people to achieve it. [EDIT: Oh and Kabajashi San, perhaps you should look beyond the conflicts discussed in this small public board before questioning someones combat prowess, especially when speaking of a veteran of some of the most vicious wars in the cluster to date, though I'd rate my business savvy far higher than my combat abilities and of far greater worth.]
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.08 02:04:00 - [48] GoGo - I was interested who you would be firing on other than U'K. As far as it being interesting if you meet a mixed gang of SF and U'K, probably not. We fight side by side often and with complete mutual respect for each others ROE. -----------------------------------------
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.08 03:00:00 - [49] GoGo, we dare to be free every day. I'm not sure why you think having our own opinions on these matters and, crucially, living with the consequences every day, as we act on our beliefs, amounts to 'whining'. We choose not to accept the rules that the CVA would enforce in Providence. Those who have attacked us, we attack. No matter who they may be or have sworn fealty to. That is the freedom we dare to seize. I think it is worth you noting that the reaction of one of the CVA's 'Holder' alliance vassals is to recommend you set us red despite the fact we do not shoot neutrals. I am glad you are ignoring them for the moment but be prepared for more of the same behind closed doors. I think you will soon see how respectful of neutrality the Providence regime really is. As for Anjinsana's delusional ravings as to our relationship with the Ushra'Khan... Again, get used to this sort of thing. In brief response to his drivel, the Ushra'Khan and the Star Fraction mutually respect one another and co-operate against common enemies and where our respective RoEs permit it. I can say quite clearly that we will not fire on neutrals engaging the Ushra'Khan unless we ourselves are engaged. The Ushra'Khan know this and they respect it, as we respect their right to fire on their enemies. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.08 03:18:00 - [50] Its hardly polite to use GoGo Yubari's announcement as a forum for your personal politics and spin Anjinsansa. The public is doubtless completely aware of the divergent ROE practiced by SF and UK and it doesn't require your interjection and muddying the waters. Its quite ridiculous for you to suggest we'd be upset to see a neutral entity make its own targeting decisions when this is the essence of our ideology and vision for radical freespace in the Eve star cluster. You know perfectly well we are against the kind of standings enclosurism practiced by the CVA in Providence and it would be the height of hypocrisy to insist that a third party entity be forced to set our friends +standings for our own convenience. But then, I imagine the truth has never been a barrier to smear for aspirant CVA "holders" before. If PAK ships engage Ushra'khan shipping in the sight of our vessels while offering no aggression to SF pilots then we will not get involved. It really is as simple as that. There is no complexity but the complexity of Sev3rance spin from your lips Anjinsansa. And this is the root of our vision for a genuine freespace political ideology besides: simply minding one's own business and giving neutrals the benefit of the doubt is the essence of our evolved political pragmatism that allows disparate pilots the option of choosing neutrality rather than needing to jump in line with the derived standings of a superior imperialist entity. I take my time to correct you on these points Anjinsansa because the root of the dispute between Sev3rance and Star Fraction is as we all know, the failure of independent thought on the Sev3rance part when your pilot Dreamy choose to fire on SF vessels when our pilots were mis-reported as "hostile/pirate" in CVA combined intel channels. The irony that you believe we'd have trouble practicing what we preach is doubly amusing when taken in comparison with your own organisational failure to acknowledge the neutral status of one of the earliest and most famous NRDS entities in the Star Cluster when encountering us in space. In short Anjinsansa, we are not going to be lectured on the nature of freespace or neutrality respecting ROE from a submissive alliance deriving its hostile roster from the CVA KOS list. You do not respect neutrals - you respect only those people that the CVA tell you can be neutral. You have no independent thought or voice. Please stop pretending you do. Our declared intent in the short term is to restrict and damage Sev3rance military power in KBP system. By ensuring that you are incapable of doing the CVA's bidding we weaken the imperialist powers stranglehold in Providence by a significant degree. You did control one of the main entrances in the region and had routinely taken to locking down this pipe, thereby denying CVA-hostile traffic the opportunity to move into Providence. Now you don't and transit is free to those who choose (unlike GoGo) to travel into Providence without begging permission from the CVA leadership first. From our perspective this can only be a good thing. "I might not have meant anything by it"
Drykor Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.01.08 03:22:00 - [51] In reality there are very few real pirates in providence, I suppose you will be fighting with U'K mostly, or getting bored in deeper providence. The first means you'll just be CVA henchmen after all, the latter means you won't have anything to do. But you'll find this out for yourself I suppose.
Conlin Gallente Yiotul Fighters Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.08 04:27:00 - [52] Originally by: Pezzle GoGo. Part of the 'price' for operating in the area is opening yourself up to heckling from our detractors. My advice? Use the thick skin approach. Should they attempt to bite, simply yank out their teeth. You want your teeth back ?.
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.08 05:00:00 - [53] Edited by: Pezzle on 08/01/2008 05:02:12 We can rightfully say the same of agendas and spin with the responses of Star Fraction leaders and loudmouths to this announcement, Constantine. Many statements made by your cult are blatantly false. No matter. We respect the rights and operations of PAK in the area. May they bring many parasites to heel. Further argument on this topic is futile. PAK is under no duress. They have made their statement of intent quite clear.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.08 06:42:00 - [54] If PAK wish a list of known pirates in Providence, I'm sure they will ask. Probably already have done, as I have had preliminary talks with Ms Yubari myself and got her in contact with an official CVA diplomat. For what it's worth, I don't believe Star Fraction, Ushra'Khan, or any of CVA's ideological enemies that escape my mind should be on that list. I've publicly stated before that Star Fraction are nicely disciplined...and Ushra'Khan generally forces the issue on their own anyway, and PAK can decide how to deal with them without needing direction or coercion from the CVA. The list of "badguys," "pirates," and otherwise troublemakers for PAK to occupy themselves with in Providence beyond ideological enemies of the CVA is extensive. PAK's efforts against such forces in Providence, while appreciated by the CVA to be sure, would be beneficial to all neutral parties in the area. It's a bit silly to argue the contrary. It's pretty much binary: piracy good or bad? Pirate hunters, then, good or bad? Anything beyond that reality is just politics and rhetoric.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.08 08:21:00 - [55] I think it is time for me to express a personal point of view here. Originally by: The Cosmopolite I think it is worth you noting that the reaction of one of the CVA's 'Holder' alliance vassals is to recommend you set us red despite the fact we do not shoot neutrals. I am glad you are ignoring them for the moment but be prepared for more of the same behind closed doors. Let us open the doors shall we? It is clear that SF does follow their own rather twisted version of NRDS policy. It is also clear that you reserve the right to set anyone to red given prior notice. Finally, it is clear that your ultimate aim is to "free" Providence by removing CVA and any who support us or abide by the rules we set. So if you should succeed in removing Severence (which you won't) who will be next on your list? Any who choose to make a living in Providence is likely to end on your list at some point. When will you be targetting GoGo and his corp/alliance? CVA only demand that a resident of Providence do not engage in acts of piracy and limits his targets to known enemies of our rule. We do not demand that any resident should fight on our behalf or risk be declared our enemies. In reality, that is what both U'K and SF does. Does that make you pirates? I think not. A pirate is one who fights simply for personal profit and cares not whom he targets. At least both your organisations have some sense of honour and apply your ROE's aimed at furthering your twisted political aims. Of course the end result for the civilians plying their trade in Providence and who ends up under your guns is quite the same. I don't think it matters much if you're targetted by pirates or fanatics in the end. You must fight back or die. It is as simple as that. Many have realized this. That is one of the reasons why the list of CVA friends who will actively support our efforts in Providence is so extensive as it is. Q: How many Amarr does it take to change a light bulb? A: None, we have Minnies to do the menial chores.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.08 08:48:00 - [56] For us there are no neutrals in Providence. Even a simple trader not only supports the slaver economy but provides information on our troop movements to the CVA intel channels. An interesting side note being that in these intel channels anyone who shoots at CVA or their allies is called a pirate. It is their blanket term for any hostile, to garner sympathy one would imagine. What can I say, most in Providence turned against us in the name of profit, some have turned to us in the name of freedom. Not always easy to tell one from the other.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.08 09:15:00 - [57] Whilst I applaud PAK's public renunciation of piracy in Providence, I am somewhat concerned by some of their activities in the Bleak Lands. Perhaps Yubari would care to explain the nature of PAK's relationship with Cruoris Seraphim? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Kabajashi San Minmatar Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:22:00 - [58] Mr. Blackleaf, just a few words. There are many people who claim that they respect or support our cause but shy away then it comes to the practical consequences that implies. We are fighting an Empire overwhelming in its military and econmic power. We are fighting for a goal which although it should be a basic necessity for everyone in this Universe is ignored by most of them. Our fight is extreme so our means have to be. Mr. Blackleaf, I can only repeat a thing which you seem not to undersatnd to the full extend: We are at war. We are not at war with CVA or the Amarr or whatever you seem to think. We are at war with everyone who stands in the way towards the freedom of our brothers. We are well aware that the fate of our brothers means nothing to you and that for a few extra ISK you will not hesitate to do business with the slavers and thus contribute to the suffering of our brothers. How do you think the trade goods you buy from the Amarr are produced? It may mean nothing to you but it means something to us. It means that you cannot wash your hands from the guilt, that you are part of the problem. Now as we are limited in strength and numbers and have limited support from the Republic and no support from Concord we will have to adapt in our fighting style. Unlike the fairytales told by the slavers we are not raving mad animals who attack everything in their reach. I am proud to fly under the command many fine officers whose tactical abilities stand unmatched. We know our weakness and our strength and we act accordingly. Just now warriors of the UK and their allies have shut down KBP and been holding it for weeks against the overwhelming forces of the slaver front in Providence. But that doens't mean that we will build an outpost there. Maybe tomorrow we will just blend in and strike in any other system of our choice. We will strike at the time and occassion of our choosing and there will be no defined form of attack. You may be living for weeks in Providence without encountering us. You may as well be shot the moment you enter. There is no safety in Providence, there will never be until our brothers are released. So if you want to know if we pose a threat to you and your operations you should simply ask yourself if your are willing to step up to your words and end your support for the slavers. If not you will have to live with the risk of being held accountable. We come for our people.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:57:00 - [59] Originally by: Maggot Originally by: Kehmor Originally by: Maggot PAK fighting piracy in Providence will help the slaver forces further. You have a simple choice to turn your back on slavery and keep out of Providence. As stated, if you controlled providence we would offer you the same terms. The short comings of your alliance and your inability to fight CVA on your own are frankly none of our concern. Sorry I fail to link your insults to my response. I am merely pointing out that we are in no way taking sides. Your coice to make us an enemy will only result in further losses on your side. PAK is recruiting!
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2008.01.08 13:06:00 - [60] Originally by: Rodj Blake Whilst I applaud PAK's public renunciation of piracy in Providence, I am somewhat concerned by some of their activities in the Bleak Lands. Perhaps Yubari would care to explain the nature of PAK's relationship with Cruoris Seraphim? For some time now Cruoris Seraphim have been not random pirates, but a political force. Due to the limited number of PAK pilots we occasionally find the need to ally with other locals to to achieve our goals. If you can provide solid evidence of Cruoris pirating neutrals please forward it and it will be considered. PAK is recruiting!

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