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zalant SUPER AWESOME COOL	Posted - 2008.01.07 06:45:00 - [1] The IPO basics : 3 Billion to start \| 5 Billion cap 1 Share = 50 million \| 100 shares max \| 60 shares minimum sold to start Time frame : 4 Months (120 days) for full buyback of all shares Payout : Month 1 5% ~ 2.5mil per share \| 2.5m gain Month 2 6% ~ 3mil per share \| 5.5m gain Month 3 7% ~ 3.5mil per share \| 9m gain Month 4 8% ~ 4mil per share + buyback \| 13m gain \| 26% total earned over 4 months (6.5%) The Plan : Using the old tried and true method of buy low & sell high I plan to move low to mid range items for profit. I do not like risk taking so I will be avoiding high ticket items. Now, to go with the low/mid range items requires a bit more work but it is solid money that will always give me a return. Also if for some reason I lost a shipment it would not hurt quite as much moving these items as opposed to losing high ticket items. Why an IPO for this? Simple. You need big money to be able to make big money, and I do not trust "eve banks". Once I have run through the entire 4 months I should be able to continue on without assistance in this enterprise. Will my aspirations be bigger after this is done? Perhaps. And if they do I may move into other areas that require more ISK. But until then I will stick with something that I know works.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.07 06:56:00 - [2] So I have to ask... Do you have any experience in what you plan to do with the raised venture capital? Why dont you trust any of the "eve banks"? For me the "eve banks" would be BMBE, Fury Bank and EBank. I am really currious to your answer, since most of us residents here in MD put so much trust in these idividuals, who you apparently dont trust, its almost a trust conflict. What circumstances whould cause you to sell off the difference between your starting 3bil and the 5bil cap in shares? Are we to assume from your statement, "if for some reason I lost a shipment.." that you will be hauling aswell as trading? As a side note, I got to say there will be people put off by your corp name. --
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:03:00 - [3] Originally by: Treelox Why dont you trust any of the "eve banks"? For me the "eve banks" would be BMBE, Fury Bank and EBank. I am really currious to your answer, since most of us residents here in MD put so much trust in these idividuals, who you apparently dont trust, its almost a trust conflict. I second this. But I also wonder about the need for trust in banks. I can only assume this means you have collateral you could use... but you don't trust the banks enough to give it to them in exchange for a loan. Is this accurate? If not you're gonna have to explain a bit better your trust issues with banks and why they are pertinent. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
zalant SUPER AWESOME COOL	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:07:00 - [4] Originally by: Treelox So I have to ask... Do you have any experience in what you plan to do with the raised venture capital? Why dont you trust any of the "eve banks"? For me the "eve banks" would be BMBE, Fury Bank and EBank. I am really currious to your answer, since most of us residents here in MD put so much trust in these idividuals, who you apparently dont trust, its almost a trust conflict. What circumstances whould cause you to sell off the difference between your starting 3bil and the 5bil cap in shares? Are we to assume from your statement, "if for some reason I lost a shipment.." that you will be hauling aswell as trading? As a side note, I got to say there will be people put off by your corp name. I do have experience in what I plan to do with the capitol. I've been doing it on a small scale ever since I started to play EVE. I don't trust the eve banks due to some scams in the past that involved them. It is nothing personal with you or any of the other current banks. The 3 bil min starting is simply the minimum amount I would need to set things in motion. 5 bil would enable me to do it faster obviously. I would be doing some hauling yes, as well as having trusted friends assist me who have carriers & other jump capable ships. I am very careful however you can't stop all suicidal maniacs. :)
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:10:00 - [5] Originally by: zalant You need big money to be able to make big money... This is untrue, you are just unwilling to spend the time it takes to get from 100m to 1bil and then to 5bil. It's better then Quafe!
zalant SUPER AWESOME COOL	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:15:00 - [6] Originally by: Dr Slurm Originally by: zalant You need big money to be able to make big money... This is untrue, you are just unwilling to spend the time it takes to get from 100m to 1bil and then to 5bil. I'll be honest, you are correct with that. But I see an opportunity right now and a void that I can fill in a market and I would like to be able to take advantage of it.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:16:00 - [7] Edited by: Treelox on 07/01/2008 07:18:34 Originally by: zalant I don't trust the eve banks due to some scams in the past that involved them. It is nothing personal with you or any of the other current banks. You do realise that none of the current banks are not the scam bank of the past? Originally by: zalant The 3 bil min starting is simply the minimum amount I would need to set things in motion. 5 bil would enable me to do it faster obviously. Can I assume that if you dont raise 3bil that you will consider this IPO failed and close shop, refunding all investors? 3bil is your min, but 5bil is your real goal for this IPO, correct? Originally by: zalant I would be doing some hauling yes, as well as having trusted friends assist me who have carriers & other jump capable ships. I am very careful however you can't stop all suicidal maniacs. :) So we have to trust your friends too? Jump capable ships.....does this mean low sec and/or 0.0 will be involved? If low sec and 0.0 are involved what protection do you plan to employ against such "suicidal maniacs"? Is there a pvp main, that you are the alt of? If low sec and 0.0 is invovled, you are raising the risk of our potential investments, in doing so you make the reward, your intrest paybacks to investors, seem rather paltry ---edit added last line about risk VS reward --
zalant SUPER AWESOME COOL	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: zalant I don't trust the eve banks due to some scams in the past that involved them. It is nothing personal with you or any of the other current banks. You do realise that none of the current banks are not the scam bank of the past? Originally by: zalant The 3 bil min starting is simply the minimum amount I would need to set things in motion. 5 bil would enable me to do it faster obviously. Can I assume that if you dont raise 3bil that you will consider this IPO failed and close shop, refunding all investors? 3bil is your min, but 5bil is your real goal for this IPO, correct? Originally by: zalant I would be doing some hauling yes, as well as having trusted friends assist me who have carriers & other jump capable ships. I am very careful however you can't stop all suicidal maniacs. :) So we have to trust your friends too? Jump capable ships.....does this mean low sec and/or 0.0 will be involved? If low sec and 0.0 are involved what protection do you plan to employ against such "suicidal maniacs"? Is there a pvp main, that you are the alt of? Too many quotes Yes I do know that none of the current ones are not the bank of the past. As I said before it is nothing personal. Correct. If I am not able to raise 3 bil I would refund the money. I will not use any of the money until I hit the 3 bil minimum. Yes 5 bil is the real goal, but I am realistic and understand that I may not reach that high. Low sec and 0.0 would be involved yes. I am a pvp character. Protection would be simple. If there are any potental hostiles around the items wouldn't go there. If/when things are jumped it would be direct from a station in low sec to an npc station in 0.0. I am not new to low security and know quite well how to keep things safe. The suicidal maniacs I was referring to would be the high sec gate campers.
zalant SUPER AWESOME COOL	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Treelox Edited by: Treelox on 07/01/2008 07:18:34 If low sec and 0.0 is invovled, you are raising the risk of our potential investments, in doing so you make the reward, your intrest paybacks to investors, seem rather paltry ---edit added last line about risk VS reward What amount of payback would you think to be fair then?
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:37:00 - [10] Originally by: zalant Too many quotes ? quoting management comes with years and years of excessive forum whorage ;) Originally by: zalant Originally by: Treelox Originally by: zalant I don't trust the eve banks due to some scams in the past that involved them. It is nothing personal with you or any of the other current banks. You do realise that none of the current banks are not the scam bank of the past? Yes I do know that none of the current ones are not the bank of the past. As I said before it is nothing personal. Ok, guess that makes sense. Your ignorance as to whom the movers and shakers of the banks are, might very well hurt you in the long run, since those indivduals are some of the most trusted indivduals here in MD. Originally by: zalant Originally by: Treelox Originally by: zalant The 3 bil min starting is simply the minimum amount I would need to set things in motion. 5 bil would enable me to do it faster obviously. Can I assume that if you dont raise 3bil that you will consider this IPO failed and close shop, refunding all investors? 3bil is your min, but 5bil is your real goal for this IPO, correct?. Correct. If I am not able to raise 3 bil I would refund the money. I will not use any of the money until I hit the 3 bil minimum. Yes 5 bil is the real goal, but I am realistic and understand that I may not reach that high. Thank you for that clarification. Originally by: zalant Originally by: Treelox Originally by: zalant I would be doing some hauling yes, as well as having trusted friends assist me who have carriers & other jump capable ships. I am very careful however you can't stop all suicidal maniacs. :) So we have to trust your friends too? Jump capable ships.....does this mean low sec and/or 0.0 will be involved? If low sec and 0.0 are involved what protection do you plan to employ against such "suicidal maniacs"? Is there a pvp main, that you are the alt of? Low sec and 0.0 would be involved yes. I am a pvp character. Protection would be simple. If there are any potental hostiles around the items wouldn't go there. If/when things are jumped it would be direct from a station in low sec to an npc station in 0.0. I am not new to low security and know quite well how to keep things safe. The suicidal maniacs I was referring to would be the high sec gate campers. I take this to mean that scouts etc etc are to be involved aswell then. Does this also mean that the compensation of the scouts has been factored into your plan? Along with fuel cost, etc etc of the jump enabled ships? --
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:42:00 - [11] Originally by: zalant Originally by: Treelox If low sec and 0.0 is invovled, you are raising the risk of our potential investments, in doing so you make the reward, your intrest paybacks to investors, seem rather paltry What amount of payback would you think to be fair then? Well thats a bit of a loaded question, of course as a potential investor I want as much iskies as i can get for doing nothing but "loaning" you some money for a few months. How much can you afford? How much do you think is fair? What have past offerings of similar nature offered and been succesful in their operations and garnering enough intial intrest? What are you competing against, return wise? For example are their currently ventures being offered that are high sec in nature and offer a higher cumultive return than yours of 6.5% I can not answer these questions, only you can answer the intial question of "what ammount of payback would you think is fair then?". You know the numbers, you know what your margin is, you know the plan. --
zalant SUPER AWESOME COOL	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:42:00 - [12] Scouting I can do myself with alts. Paying for the fuel of course. I am fortunate to have friends that would not charge me for more than that, since I would be also helping them by getting the goods to the areas and they would like to see me stop saying "Geez I hate not being able to afford X".
zalant SUPER AWESOME COOL	Posted - 2008.01.07 07:51:00 - [13] Edited by: zalant on 07/01/2008 07:51:58 Originally by: Treelox Originally by: zalant Originally by: Treelox If low sec and 0.0 is invovled, you are raising the risk of our potential investments, in doing so you make the reward, your intrest paybacks to investors, seem rather paltry What amount of payback would you think to be fair then? Well thats a bit of a loaded question, of course as a potential investor I want as much iskies as i can get for doing nothing but "loaning" you some money for a few months. How much can you afford? How much do you think is fair? What have past offerings of similar nature offered and been succesful in their operations and garnering enough intial intrest? What are you competing against, return wise? For example are their currently ventures being offered that are high sec in nature and offer a higher cumultive return than yours of 6.5% I can not answer these questions, only you can answer the intial question of "what ammount of payback would you think is fair then?". You know the numbers, you know what your margin is, you know the plan. I have not looked through all of the older IPO's , but from what I've read of recient threads around 7% seems to be average and higher than that tends to scare investors off. I would be willing to go higher, the profit is good enough to support it but not everything I plan on selling will be a huge margin. Would 36% over the 4 months be more attractive? Month 1 7% \| 3.5mil Month 2 8% \| 4mil Month 3 10% \| 5mil Month 4 11% \| 5.5mil : total 18mil
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.07 09:50:00 - [14] Ok so you don't trust the banks. Why in turn should we trust you. If we use your blanket determination in that previous banks have failed hence your lack of trust we can say that previous individuals have failed so we shouldn't be trusting you. You are the one asking for funding, what 'trust' do you need to put into a bank that you so don't want to do? All I can think of is securing your venture which is something you haven't actually mentioned. So maybe you can clarify these points. Most notably "Why should we trust you?" http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Shuan Jedai Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.01.07 09:57:00 - [15] The rates make it pretty interesting, but obviously much more information is required about you and about the venture, but there are some things that I just don't get. You say you don't 'trust' the banks, what exactly is the trust issue ? Do you have something for collateral that you don't trust the banks with ? What I don't get is, where's the trust needed ? If you loan out the same amount you put up the collateral for. If you have collateral, will you be willing to put that up for some other trusted 3rd party ? If you don't have collateral, then again, what's with the 'trust' issue ? You wouldn't have gotten that loan anyway. Since the bank loans are much cheaper (with good collateral) than the rates you offer, this doesn't make much sense. Only reason to do it like this would be claiming you don't trust the banks to 'hide' the fact you don't have enough assets for a loan. Perhaps I'm not just old enough to recognize you, but who are you ? What's your experience in game ? Who are your alts ? Are you willing to give out API key for verification ?
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:05:00 - [16] i bet 50m isk that this is a scam/
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas i bet 50m isk that this is a scam/ Bold coming from someone else starting a business plan of questionable quantity. TBH it reminds me of Ufl coming into EBANK threads (competition in his eyes) calling EBANK a scam to promote himself. Due to you not providing any quantifiable post to substantiate your claim/bet it does seem like trolling precisely like UFL was doing. Care to clarify? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:25:00 - [18] Fine. You dont trust banks, because there have been some bad ones in the past. Why should we trust you? There was scam bonds/ipo's in the past. So by your logic, we shouldnt trust you. This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas i bet 50m isk that this is a scam/ Bold coming from someone else starting a business plan of questionable quantity. TBH it reminds me of Ufl coming into EBANK threads (competition in his eyes) calling EBANK a scam to promote himself. Due to you not providing any quantifiable post to substantiate your claim/bet it does seem like trolling precisely like UFL was doing. Care to clarify? well...since you asked so nicely. A scam has x properties. 1. it asks for a lot of money. 2. it provides no securities. 3. it deals in well explored business: trading, producing, research etc. the op even takes care to have 4 payout period. so people would go "oh look 5% thats not a lot" while at the same time they would go "oh look 8% profits!!!!" i.e. being not too tempting all the while also being profitable. also i think 5b is too much for trading. no way anyone who has done some research would ask for too much money that he has to pay interest. I feel very strongly of the scamness that I will bet 50m of my own money. I am not rich. 50m is a lot for me but I am willing to risk it. I would love to see you take it. Ricdic ,because then i know I will be paid if i win. and if i lose and i dont pay, i am sure you will not just sit on it idly.
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:37:00 - [20] you might notice that my bet is strictly better than the IPO. if the IPO is not a scam you would get less than 50m you would from me. If it is a scam then you lose 50m anyway.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:47:00 - [21] See thats the thing. It may very well be a scam, I have no idea. I do know it's vague, just like yours is. It's poorly thought out, just like yours is. It also lacks consistancy just like yours does. I find it comical that you were offering 5% per week on your offering before being told that it was stupidly high. Now that someone else is offering lower than you were you are quick to call scam. Whether it is or isn't is irrelevant. In the end it only looks bad on your own reputation putting baseless comments like the one you did down. Since the beginning of investment times scammers have tried putting down legitimate or competing businesses. Your four points whilst valid aren't definitive or even close too. In my eyes your business is far riskier, in that a 2 month old is asking for at least 1b isk. Using those calculative skills, the OP of this venture is almost 2 years old so therefore should be able to easily raise 45b or so correct? Frankly, putting 5b into a 2 year old is far less risky in my eyes than putting 1b into a 2 month old Having said that, I don't like the look of either offerings and won't invest in them. But your first baseless post here done nothing more than reducing my standing of you personally http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.07 10:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas the op even takes care to have 4 payout period. so people would go "oh look 5% thats not a lot" while at the same time they would go "oh look 8% profits!!!!" i.e. being not too tempting all the while also being profitable. My bond(Not publicly announced) pays out 5%. And i sold 19bill worth of shares? Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas1 also i think 5b is too much for trading. no way anyone who has done some research would ask for too much money that he has to pay interest. 5bill too much for trading? I actually have 6bill used for trading. And im always short on cash for my orders. I could easily handle 11bill for trading. This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:01:00 - [23] sigh. 50m up for grab. anyone?
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:03:00 - [24] 2 month old player giving away money that he has likely raised from his bond offering in other thread. Definetly a sturdy investment opportunity. Sure it's his 'personal' funds, if you believe that... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:10:00 - [25] Originally by: Ricdic See thats the thing. It may very well be a scam, I have no idea. I do know it's vague, just like yours is. It's poorly thought out, just like yours is. It also lacks consistancy just like yours does. I find it comical that you were offering 5% per week on your offering before being told that it was stupidly high. Now that someone else is offering lower than you were you are quick to call scam. Whether it is or isn't is irrelevant. In the end it only looks bad on your own reputation putting baseless comments like the one you did down. Since the beginning of investment times scammers have tried putting down legitimate or competing businesses. Your four points whilst valid aren't definitive or even close too. In my eyes your business is far riskier, in that a 2 month old is asking for at least 1b isk. Using those calculative skills, the OP of this venture is almost 2 years old so therefore should be able to easily raise 45b or so correct? Frankly, putting 5b into a 2 year old is far less risky in my eyes than putting 1b into a 2 month old Having said that, I don't like the look of either offerings and won't invest in them. But your first baseless post here done nothing more than reducing my standing of you personally its impossible to have a definitive proves of a scam. otherwise noone would get scammed. i have a very strong feeling that this is a scam and i want to make money off that. that was all. but then you asked me to explain my point just so you could bash it again. to be honest, there is besically nothing i could have said that would solicit a favourable response from you. my first response was not to state my belief that this is a scam. it was to provide me with an opportunity to profit.
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.07 11:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Ricdic 2 month old player giving away money that he has likely raised from his bond offering in other thread. Definetly a sturdy investment opportunity. Sure it's his 'personal' funds, if you believe that... personal attack is not necessary. I think for a person of such credibility in this forum to personally attack me like this is like schoolyard bullying to me. I had a lot of respect for you personally even after you told me you lost yours for me. But then you said I am lying about me using my personal money for this bet. I intend to pay my investors back and you're accusation of me using investors' money for this bet is as baseless as what you tried to make of my original post. so you, sir, are a hypocrite.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.07 12:47:00 - [27] Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas But then you said I am lying about me using my personal money for this bet. I intend to pay my investors back and you're accusation of me using investors' money for this bet is as baseless as what you tried to make of my original post. so you, sir, are a hypocrite. I am glad to see you got the point There was no personal attack in there at all. If anything this has shown how you feel when someone makes a baseless claim on your operation. You got irritated by it, how do you think the op of this thread felt? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Kyrial Tidolfas	Posted - 2008.01.07 13:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas But then you said I am lying about me using my personal money for this bet. I intend to pay my investors back and you're accusation of me using investors' money for this bet is as baseless as what you tried to make of my original post. so you, sir, are a hypocrite. I am glad to see you got the point There was no personal attack in there at all. If anything this has shown how you feel when someone makes a baseless claim on your operation. You got irritated by it, how do you think the op of this thread felt? i can see clearly now the rain has gone. to op: i am not saying you are a scam. I never even said you are a scam. to everyoneelse: 50m says he's a scam. i am not saying it. 50m is saying it.
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.07 13:14:00 - [29] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas the op even takes care to have 4 payout period. so people would go "oh look 5% thats not a lot" while at the same time they would go "oh look 8% profits!!!!" i.e. being not too tempting all the while also being profitable. My bond(Not publicly announced) pays out 5%. And i sold 19bill worth of shares? Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas1 also i think 5b is too much for trading. no way anyone who has done some research would ask for too much money that he has to pay interest. 5bill too much for trading? I actually have 6bill used for trading. And im always short on cash for my orders. I could easily handle 11bill for trading. Should i take the silence from you as that you agree with my points or make, or just ignorance? This signature is brought to you by EBankÖ, free space for moderators to brag.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.07 13:50:00 - [30] Personally I'm going to say scam attempt. 3b is a lot for a 2 month old character and I know a lot of newer people to the game would just love to get their hands on that much ISK. Not saying it's impossible that the OP just doesn't know how to present a good business plan other than generic rhetoric, but I'd seriosuly doubt it. Will not be investing in this. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.

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