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Kyrial Tidolfas
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Posted - 2008.01.07 14:04:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas
the op even takes care to have 4 payout period. so people would go "oh look 5% thats not a lot" while at the same time they would go "oh look 8% profits!!!!" i.e. being not too tempting all the while also being profitable.
My bond(Not publicly announced) pays out 5%. And i sold 19bill worth of shares?
Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas1
also i think 5b is too much for trading. no way anyone who has done some research would ask for too much money that he has to pay interest.
5bill too much for trading? I actually have 6bill used for trading. And im always short on cash for my orders. I could easily handle 11bill for trading.
Should i take the silence from you as that you agree with my points or make, or just ignorance?
You have made no point for me to dis/agree.
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.07 15:41:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
Personally I'm going to say scam attempt. 3b is a lot for a 2 month old character and I know a lot of newer people to the game would just love to get their hands on that much ISK.
Not saying it's impossible that the OP just doesn't know how to present a good business plan other than generic rhetoric, but I'd seriosuly doubt it.
Will not be investing in this.
According to EvE, Valant was born 2006.03.30 17:43 making him nearly 2 years old. Way to fail at both researching and reading.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Elena Lanfear
Crafty Productions
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Posted - 2008.01.07 15:44:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
Personally I'm going to say scam attempt. 3b is a lot for a 2 month old character and I know a lot of newer people to the game would just love to get their hands on that much ISK.
Not saying it's impossible that the OP just doesn't know how to present a good business plan other than generic rhetoric, but I'd seriosuly doubt it.
Will not be investing in this.
According to EvE, Valant was born 2006.03.30 17:43 making him nearly 2 years old. Way to fail at both researching and reading.
But isnt his name "zalant"?? *is now totally confused*
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.07 15:45:00 -
[34]
Personally I'm interested but I would need to see some solid security, a bit more of your business plan and 36% over 4 months before anything happens.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.07 15:46:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Elena Lanfear
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Minerva Vulcan
Personally I'm going to say scam attempt. 3b is a lot for a 2 month old character and I know a lot of newer people to the game would just love to get their hands on that much ISK.
Not saying it's impossible that the OP just doesn't know how to present a good business plan other than generic rhetoric, but I'd seriosuly doubt it.
Will not be investing in this.
According to EvE, Valant was born 2006.03.30 17:43 making him nearly 2 years old. Way to fail at both researching and reading.
But isnt his name "zalant"?? *is now totally confused*
Yes, yes it is. I copy-pasted that name into EvE and got the correct year out which I posted above. I then incorrectly typed his name into my post. Everything is correct except the spelling of his name which I'm about to change.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:09:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas
Originally by: Ricdic
2 month old player giving away money that he has likely raised from his bond offering in other thread. Definetly a sturdy investment opportunity. Sure it's his 'personal' funds, if you believe that...
personal attack is not necessary.
There was absolutely no personal attack there. Not sure why you'd even claim there was.
It is quite a statement to call something a scam. You just do not have the experience or reputation on these forums to make such a statement. On top of that, your reasoning that he is asking for too much money to trade with is absurd. What if I told you I trade with 10 times more than he is asking for? Then what if you realized Fast Learner likely trades with twice as much as I do?
No one here trusts your word yet. The only thing you did by making such a claim is to damage your own credibility and your own IPO in the process.
I highly suggest you apologize for trying to derail this thread over and over. Anything short and I'm afraid you'll be permanently scarred by your posts here.
As to the OP, you REALLY need to answer my question from the second post of this thread which you somehow managed to overlook. It has now been raised again by other people as well.
What does it matter that you do not trust banks? Why does that make any difference? As far as I can tell it means you must have collateral but do not trust the banks to give it to in order to secure a loan. Can you confirm this?
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Minerva Vulcan
Caldari
The Nexus Foundation
Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:51:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
According to EvE, ZALANT was born 2006.03.30 17:43 making him nearly 2 years old. Way to fail at both researching and reading.
Edit: Failure to spell. 
Thought I'd read that the OP was two months old, but maybe I got my threads mixed up. Didn't actually look myself... largely because the thread itself didn't warrant me to arse myself to log onto EVE. I'd just got home from work, so a thousand humbles for this indescression.
Worry not, though. I'll get over it.
Yup, there I go.
To the OP, my bad on the age thing. Think I see now where I got mixed up. Regargless, I still don't like the smell of this much, so I won't be investing, but good luck with whatever it is you're doing.
_______________________________
I need new voices in my head,
To speak my secret evils with.
I need new lovers in my bed,
To be my friends and special pets. |
FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:52:00 -
[38]
There's a few issues I'd like to see cleared up about this IPO.
What appears to be described is pretty much what I was doing (and still do) when I launched Fury Holdings: buying goods in high-sec and selling them in 0.0. As such, the comments about 5 billion being too much are totally stupid BUT going from zero to 5 billion in one hit seems a bit of a leap.
What assets/stock does the OP have? Is this 5 billion an expansion on an existing 10 billion operation - or a huge jump-start with just a T1 hauler to his name? Can these assets/stock be verified in some way? When I started, I put 8.5 billion of my own assets in (and took shares for their value). These assets were verifiable - things like a POS and a freighter which could be shown to any interested party. I was also already trading to 0.0 - something which could be substantitated by the 1000 (at that time - now 2000ish) members of my alliance who saw my name in their journal whenever they bought T2 items in 0.0.
The lack of any background to the investment request is a bit disconcerting.
Next up: why call it an IPO, when it's actually a bond? No ownership of the company (or it's assets) is being sold. Investors stand to gain AT MOST 26% of their original investment within 4 months. They obviously stand to lose 100% of it - if the OP scams, gets bored or gets suicide ganked. Does the OP have private assets to cover for getting suicide ganked while carrying a lot of valuable stock? IF this WERE an IPO, then that issue becomes less relevant - as any such loss has to be absorbed by the share-holders. But as it's a bond, investors are entitled to assume that no matter what happens, the OP will be able to pay out as promised. That's why bonds should only be issued by already established companies - while new ones should issue shares. A new venture with no sizable assets just isn't in the position to meaningfully guarantee a fixed repayment.
Of course this offering COULD be characterised as a loan - rather than as a bond. In which case, the question which needs to be answered is: why should someone with no track record expect to get an unsecured loan for a lower rate than would be charged for a secured loan to someone with a solid track record?
Now the answer to the previous two paragrpahs is fairly simple: the OP is trying for a loan/bond because a lot of investors aren't fussy, so he stands a good chance of getting one. Personally, to invest in an offering like this I'd:
a) Want it to be a share, not a bond - where if things went well I'd get a nice fat profit.
b) Want some disclosure of existing assets/business experience - to satisfy me that the OP actually has a plan.
c) Want some infromation provided about the quality and regularity of reporting.
d) Unless the OP already has a sizable ongoing operation, would want the investment staggered. Adding 5 billion capital into an ongoing 20 billion operation isn't too hard. Going from zero to 5 billion is far more tricky - it takes some while to properly "feel out" a market and establish which items sell and in what quantities. Buying up a pile of stock with no market research is likely to leave you with a fair chunk of it not shifting. I'm basing these comments on the assumption that the OP IS mainly selling to low-sec/0.0 - where the demand for goods can vary a lot from area to area based on the nature of the local residents, what the local rats are etc.
A few final points:
1. Talk of low-cost items being less risky than high-cost ones isn't strictly true. 5 billion of stock is 5 billion of stock - and costs the same (5 billin, shockingly) if you lose it. If low-end items take more trips to move then your risk of losing ALL is reduced - but the increased number of trips actually increases the overall risk. We're talking low-sec/0.0 - where any hauler gets killed: it's not like high-sec where only valuable shipments get ganked.
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FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.01.07 16:54:00 -
[39]
(cont)
2. Saying "I don't like risk taking" then also later (worryingly, not in the OP) saying it involves movement to low-sec/0.0 "because you're a PvPer" is contradictory.
3. You don't need big money to make big money. Otherwise noone would be rich - as, to the best of my knowledge, noone began playing Eve rich. Someone, somewhere, got rich without having big money.
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Ricdic
Caldari
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.07 17:14:00 -
[40]
Good posts FL. I don't think I could find a single thing to disagree on up there even if I wanted too 
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043
Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE! |
Atherin Gaius
Caldari
Domini Umbrus
VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.07 17:36:00 -
[41]
I agree with FL too. i'm interested in investing but there needs to be some changes to the offer for me to pull the trigger.
As the offer stands now, there is too much unknown about the current state of the operation and the risk out weighs the returns.
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari
The Nexus Foundation
Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2008.01.07 17:37:00 -
[42]
FL's final points were pretty much my thoughts exactly.
_______________________________
I need new voices in my head,
To speak my secret evils with.
I need new lovers in my bed,
To be my friends and special pets. |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.01.07 18:11:00 -
[43]
Got to agree with ya FL. My multitude of questions on the first page and the answers I recieved, pretty much led me to all the same conclusions you just outlined.
---An aside
I think that in general to many people dont understand the difference of Bonds, Loans and IPO's. Shame really.
--
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Giovanni F
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Posted - 2008.01.07 20:37:00 -
[44]
Not to sound snide or anything, but with these friends with carriers and various other jump capable ships. I'm going to assume that they had to have a great deal of isk to afford said ships, so I ask, why not ask your friends who will be providing assistance for the initial 3b, and then come back for the other 2b here, or just ask them for it all outright. If they are willing to risk their multi-million/billion dollar ships helping you make a great deal of money, I see no reason why they wouldn't directly invest and get a greater return on their investment of time, risk, and very expensive ships.
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zalant
SUPER AWESOME COOL
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Posted - 2008.01.08 01:05:00 -
[45]
Amazing. I come back to 40 or so crap posts. I thought the trolls lived in COAD but I guess I was wrong.
At the state of this thread it is obvious that I will not be able to get this to work. Who is going to read through all the garbage to get to the real information?
I am disappointed. But such is EVE.
If anyone has actually sent me any money for shares when I log in I will return it with a thank you mail.
See you in space, hopefully in 0.0.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.01.08 01:36:00 -
[46]
Originally by: zalant
See you in space, hopefully in 0.0.
Is that to mean that since you didnt get what you wanted you plan to kill us all the moment you can with impunity?
Just checking
You have no one to blame but your self, if the thread has falling into this state of "garbage" as you call it. If you had done a bit of homework and checked out the forums here in MD to see what we do here, you might of actually been able to put together an orginal business plan that might have garnered intrest. Instead you left too much unsaid in your intial write up, and when details of importance start to get left out, it looks like things are trying to be covered up. When things start to look covered up, we assume that something is undesirble, tainted and maybe even scamtastic.
What saddens me the most is how easily you gave up, and didnt defend your plan, your idea, your concept. If that is the attitude that you take when the going gets tough and not to your ease and comfort level, then I think its a good thing that you didnt become a steward of public isk.
--
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cosmoray
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Posted - 2008.01.08 04:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: zalant
Amazing. I come back to 40 or so crap posts. I thought the trolls lived in COAD but I guess I was wrong.
At the state of this thread it is obvious that I will not be able to get this to work. Who is going to read through all the garbage to get to the real information?
I am disappointed. But such is EVE.
If anyone has actually sent me any money for shares when I log in I will return it with a thank you mail.
See you in space, hopefully in 0.0.
Some day in the far distant future people asking for money from potential investors will answer all relevant questions, and not throw their toys out of the pram and call everyone idiots when asked some perfectly reasonable questions.
Hey who am I kidding, just give me some f**&^ng ISK cause I need it!!!
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Ricdic
Caldari
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.08 04:29:00 -
[48]
Excellent post cosmo.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043
Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE! |
Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2008.01.08 06:16:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: zalant
See you in space, hopefully in 0.0.
Is that to mean that since you didnt get what you wanted you plan to kill us all the moment you can with impunity?
Just checking
You have no one to blame but your self, if the thread has falling into this state of "garbage" as you call it. If you had done a bit of homework and checked out the forums here in MD to see what we do here, you might of actually been able to put together an orginal business plan that might have garnered intrest. Instead you left too much unsaid in your intial write up, and when details of importance start to get left out, it looks like things are trying to be covered up. When things start to look covered up, we assume that something is undesirble, tainted and maybe even scamtastic.
What saddens me the most is how easily you gave up, and didnt defend your plan, your idea, your concept. If that is the attitude that you take when the going gets tough and not to your ease and comfort level, then I think its a good thing that you didnt become a steward of public isk.
In the dude's defense, I like and respect quite a few of you but if I run into you in 0.0 and you aint blue I'll put you into structure without thinking twice.  That said, this failed for good reason and the part where he insults basically all of MD means I'll never invest with him.
5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants |
Ricdic
Caldari
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.08 07:18:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
In the dude's defense, I like and respect quite a few of you but if I run into you in 0.0 and you aint blue I'll put you into structure without thinking twice.
Good luck with that. Chances of finding me in lowsec/0.0 are probably somewhere in the range of zero to none.
You don't get more carebear sir. Same could probably be said for 95% of the posters in MD forums
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043
Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE! |
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2008.01.08 07:53:00 -
[51]
Originally by: zalant
Who is going to read through all the garbage to get to the real information?
Anyone who has read past the first post.
What's kind of funny is when I first saw this thread I thought to myself "Dead On Arrival".
It's better then Quafe! |
Kyrial Tidolfas
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Posted - 2008.01.08 09:00:00 -
[52]
oh lol. i hope i didnt contribute to your failure.
if i did, im sure ufl can learn from it.
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Ricdic
Caldari
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.01.08 09:10:00 -
[53]
Kinda strange how 2 different bonds have failed within the one thread. To the OP of this thread, most of the 'crap' posted was in the direction of the guy who hijacked. However there were some very valid posts put forth by FL and some of the others that should have been addressed.
Anyway, moving along.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043
Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE! |
YouGotRipped
Gallente
Ewigkeit
Galactic Research
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Posted - 2008.01.08 11:52:00 -
[54]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 08/01/2008 11:52:37
Scam warning, incompetence warning.
The OP is requesting 3 bills to get things started? Haha, dude I started with less than a million buying Small hull repairs and selling them 10 jumps away.
The OP is the alt of a PVP char. Has friends with jump capable ships and yet no one is lending him iskies for his project.
At one point he mentions "too many quotes" This guy does not have the patience to read all the quotes in his own funding request thread and you expect him to have the patience for trading? funny
And last your corporation name. Kids these days...
----
typo
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.01.08 13:05:00 -
[55]
The best part of this thread were the posts by FastLearner, I encourage people to take a look at what he wrote. I've noticed he's been pushing for more awareness between the two main finacial instruments (bonds vs. shares) and in doing so has started to make the point that we should begin to categorize investments by how secure they are (at least, for Bonds). While I like that direction, I don't want to see unsecured Bonds go away....they have their place in the world versus a secured Bond. Perhaps we need new language in general?
Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
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Havok Pierce
Gallente
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.09 00:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
In the dude's defense, I like and respect quite a few of you but if I run into you in 0.0 and you aint blue I'll put you into structure without thinking twice.
Good luck with that. Chances of finding me in lowsec/0.0 are probably somewhere in the range of zero to none.
You don't get more carebear sir. Same could probably be said for 95% of the posters in MD forums
Somehow, it feels nice to be in the minority. 
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
There's a Community petition category??
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Myrdyr
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Posted - 2008.01.09 01:36:00 -
[57]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
5bill too much for trading? I actually have 6bill used for trading. And im always short on cash for my orders. I could easily handle 11bill for trading.
OP is correct; past 5bil is diminishing returns with respect to time invested for profits rewarded, unless you're dumping way too much into your buy orders due to either too high of quantity or not having Margin Trading trained up.
Too bad about him getting crap-posted -- another victim of EBank's ego.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.01.09 01:57:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Havok Pierce
Somehow, it feels nice to be in the minority.
Ohh im around in low sec sometimes too, look at your allaince KB for proofs :)
--
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.01.09 02:01:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Myrdyr
Too bad about him getting crap-posted -- another victim of EBank's ego.
umm...errr....ahhh
So your saying that Fast Learner, Shadarle, or Kwint Sommer are part of Ebanks Ego?
Well your 8days old so you must know these things...
--
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Kyrial Tidolfas
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Posted - 2008.01.09 09:26:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Myrdyr
Originally by: LaVista Vista
5bill too much for trading? I actually have 6bill used for trading. And im always short on cash for my orders. I could easily handle 11bill for trading.
OP is correct; past 5bil is diminishing returns with respect to time invested for profits rewarded, unless you're dumping way too much into your buy orders due to either too high of quantity or not having Margin Trading trained up.
Too bad about him getting crap-posted -- another victim of EBank's ego.
i must clear this up. what happened was i made a statement about my mistrust of the OP. . then Ricdic called me a liar. lots of people sided with him for some reason. they thrashed my thread, claimed they lost their interest in me and continued posing on the presumption that I am dead in this forum.
if you read through the thread i am sure you will see me as a victim here. an unfortunate victim of the pack mentality, where ricdic is recognised as a "regular" and when he made a unjustified personal attack against me, the other "regualar"'s sided with him immediately. which is quite sad, that people who have shown to be able to prosper dont seem to have an independent thinking mind.
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