| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden
YouWhat
   |
Posted - 2008.01.07 06:48:00 -
[1]
I'll start by saying its apparently entirely within the rules of the game, so I make this post just to keep the community aware or underhanded tactics in use. Einherjar was camping PF-346 with about 10 people, we had a 10 man gang to counter and warped in to engage, we had intel covering all the gates, and a review of our fraps also rules out any possible jump-ins as only one jump in was observed and was more than likely one of our pilots in orvolle.
The rest of our gang came from a system on the other side, when our 10 man gangs collided, local had spiked to 30, starting at 12 before the fight as our bait was warping in.
FRAPS showed several pilots warping in together, at the gate, so we have no doubt a login trap was used, just be aware, and CCP please throw us a bone and give us some sort of counter since right now its allowed but completely uncounterable, I see no reason to engage a enemies that employ these tactics.
|
Stephannus Calimben
mUfFiN fAcToRy
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 07:07:00 -
[2]
i thought login traps were an exploit? i guess you guys already petitioned it though
______________
...mmm fire...
______________ |
Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden
YouWhat
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 07:08:00 -
[3]
Yep, GM reply stated that it is not an exploit. Wish they'd document rules somewhere, at least the ones that commonly come up, as I expect this one does.
|
Jogvan
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 08:11:00 -
[4]
Never met those guys in space, but I hear they got great stats on Smashkill killboards. I don't think they would need to pull a log-on trap. If I remember correct there are other gates in that system that they could have come from right?
I got a feeling this thread will be like the "Veto. does log-on traps" thread 
|
AntonioBanderas
Empirius Enigmus Navy
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 08:12:00 -
[5]
login traps are utterly pathetic in my book.
Comparable to can baiting noobs.
My 2 cents.
I can say ASS \o/ yay!!! |
Naridos
Caldari
IDLE GUNS
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 08:25:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Jogvan
Never met those guys in space, but I hear they got great stats on Smashkill killboards. I don't think they would need to pull a log-on trap. If I remember correct there are other gates in that system that they could have come from right?
I got a feeling this thread will be like the "Veto. does log-on traps" thread
Uhhhh yes I have to agree with Jogvan here. If they warped in together then DUH!!! They came from another gate in system and you even said, they didnt in through the gate.
If they did pull a login trap then Kudos to them. Better luck next time.
Quote:
Pandas are the PWN of Eve. Pandas!
|
Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden
YouWhat
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 08:30:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 07/01/2008 08:34:28
Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 07/01/2008 08:32:05
There is no other gate in the system, orvolle on one side, where we had a scout, and FD, where most of our gang came from. 12(PF before our gang jumped in)+10(our gang)=20, not 30, and we had scouts covering orvolle, PF, and our gang watching in FD, there was no other source of hostiles in PF. I'll see what I can do about maybe linking the fraps if you care, gotta talk to the guy that recorded it.
They warped in together, I don't know if it was from same direction or not, but warping in together could also imply they logged in together, not simply that they warped from a single location. I'd agree that if they warped in unison from one direction they had to be in system to begin with, I can't confirm this one way or the other.
And yes, I made this post to warn people that einherjar login traps, I have no shame in doing so because all the evidence I have suggests they did and I think its a lame tactic that CCP should not overlook. We used all the intel available to give a relatively even fight, they already had us outnumbered in BS as it were, though numbers were even. No amount of intel can protect us from a login trap though, and that is something that needs to be fixed.
|
Jogvan
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 08:51:00 -
[8]
Ok, just checked the map and there are only 2 gates.
Quote:
They warped in together, I don't know if it was from same direction or not, but warping in together could also imply they logged in together, not simply that they warped from a single location. I'd agree that if they warped in unison from one direction they had to be in system to begin with, I can't confirm this one way or the other.
If they did a log-on trap their ships would warp off in random direction when they logged off, and when they would log back in they would warp in one by one as they log in, and from random directions, not together in groups. If they really did a log-on trap then it's possible that they logged off at a pos, and then warped from there to gate but that would give you plenty of time to notice the local spike.
|
Xailz
Amarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 10:00:00 -
[9]
Sorry as much as i dont support log on traps
you need to understand that if this was real (as ccp want it to be as realistic as possible) you wouldnt have local chat anyway to tell u how many hostiles are in local 
so tbh its not really an exploit imo
WTB: Sig convo in game |
Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
Sten Industries
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 11:31:00 -
[10]
Show me fraps!
_
|
kessah
Blood Corsair's
Blood Blind
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 11:41:00 -
[11]
you to put evidence across, remember what happen to grenadier simpson when he accused Veto.
Tbh though this is something i wouldnt put past the corp, but again evidence is needed to convince me and others.
|
Janess Idaho
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 11:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sexorella hotz
Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 07/01/2008 08:34:28
Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 07/01/2008 08:32:05
...We used all the intel available to give a relatively even fight...
Agreed, it IS a sh***y thing to do, but who the heck wants a fair fight? You want your side to have a superior numbers advantage before engaging the enemy. If you can figure a way to bait the enemy and ambush them with a surprise element, that's tactics in warfare.
However, if this violtes some rule of the game, then it should be dealt with, if it does not violtate rules, then the clever strategy sessions on their part are to be commended.
|
Sahriah BloodStone
Caldari
Underworld Protection Agency
The Crimson Federation
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 12:01:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Sahriah BloodStone on 07/01/2008 12:02:12
Maybe they were at a safespot and warped in together but if you had people watching local constantly and local spiked by 10 with no gate activations its suspicious
|
Barzam
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 13:56:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Barzam on 07/01/2008 13:57:41
Looking at killboard, they were 14 ships for most of the fight, rising to 17 towards the end. That's nothing unsual as Ein usually has a lot of people in that system.
During larger fights my own corp usually calls in people on vent if there is fun to be had, and they are mostly ready with their clients started within a minute.
You were just unlucky enough that the fight happened in a system where they have a lot of people afk/logged off but ready to log on within a moments notice. Guess you could call that 'login-traps' though, but it's more a matter of people wanting to watch TV, make food etc but for their corps' sake being ready to log in at any time.
|
Aslovi
Caldari
Repo Industries
R.E.P.O.
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 14:28:00 -
[15]
I would doubt these guys need to resort to such underhanded tatics.
I have flown joint ops with these guys before, they are very good at what they do.
I say back up your allegation with proof (post your fraps for all to see), sounds to me like you got pwn'd and this is all soul grapes.
|
Gaven Blands
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 14:59:00 -
[16]
I have no doubt you will soon release the FRAPS of which you speak.
You can always bargain with them for keeping the footage secret. I had two guys from a well known "considerably harder than you" alliance try a login trap on me, they had no clue I had a cloaked scout watching them.
So I got what I wanted out of them, and they bought my silence. A thoroughly EVE solution to the situation.
--
Death of an insidious dictator
Birth of a new one
|
Calypso's Wrath
Caldari
Black Watch Legionnaires
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 16:03:00 -
[17]
Proof or STFU.
I don't see EHJ pulling a Log off/on trap - and not for a 10man group. These guys fight head on.
|
ry ry
StateCorp
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 16:32:00 -
[18]
Edited by: ry ry on 07/01/2008 16:32:38
i'm sure CCP could easily stick in a 1 min 'calibration' period when you can't lock anything or deploy drones when you first log in.
edit: and to be honest StateCorp get accused of login traps on a daily basis too. being fast != logon.
*again. |
rocka
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 16:51:00 -
[19]
OMG log in trap what a horrible thing |
Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden
YouWhat
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 17:13:00 -
[20]
I'll try to get the FRAPS posted tonight, now my reply to the one comment that annoys the **** out of me:
"In reality you wouldn't have local": In reality your scouts could then see everyone in the hostile gang because they cannot log off, and if you didn't see everyone it would be because of faulty intelligence, our intelligence gave us everything available, there were no holes as PF is a small system and we watch orvolle like hawks because its not uncommon for people to hide there prior to fights, however no one did. And all that said, if I knew there were holes in my intel(in this wonderful world of no local) I'd be unlikely to engage these guys because I know they are quite good.
ALSO LOGIN TRAPS ARE NOT CLEVER...someone said that, I don't care who, a monkey could figure it out, 20 show up to gate, half log off to hide numbers, man, they must be Einsteins.
That said, to the V guy(I was once V  ), they actually suggested something like that in a dev blog 3+ years ago, never got implemented though. Random trivia for ya.
|
NightHaunter
Joyriders
INTERDICTION
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 17:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ry ry
Edited by: ry ry on 07/01/2008 16:32:38
i'm sure CCP could easily stick in a 1 min 'calibration' period when you can't lock anything or deploy drones when you first log in.
Thats great for people using exploits, but for those of us who have unreliable internet or older computers, it sounds like a deathtrap. Say I am in the middle of a lv 4, game crashes, I log in and can't engage anything? Oh look warp disruption frigs, oh look, I'm dead and can't do anything about it.
|
Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden
YouWhat
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 17:29:00 -
[22]
For those who are looking at killboards, I do recommend comparing the death of nipplator to my death, nipple was the bait, I was with the main group. Nipple was first one there, in an abaddon, everyone has time to target and get on the abaddon killmail just fine, but there's only 2 megas, a hype, onyx, and phoon. So apparently half their fleet is just holding fire? Anyways, thats 6 pilots.
On my killmail, in a logistics, there are suddenly 14 on a small, hard to target ship. Well where were they to begin with...there were 12 in local, 10 "potential" hostiles when our bait warped in. Not to mention before I died I noticed at least one logistics on their side, a scimitar, so that's 15, on bull's mail, there's 15 ships so that's 16. Hmmm...where were those 10 when nipple was there? They didn't come from orvolle cause two of our gang come from there and saw nothing, plus a scout that stayed to watch the gate saw nothing. They didn't come from FD because that's where we came from and we had a trailing scout watching one more system over in X-M who followed us in later. They didn't come from a safe spot because that said, only (12-8) 4 were unaccounted for, not 10. I know this is all heresay atm on local counts and such...workin on it.
|
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 17:49:00 -
[23]
Originally by: NightHaunter
Originally by: ry ry
Edited by: ry ry on 07/01/2008 16:32:38
i'm sure CCP could easily stick in a 1 min 'calibration' period when you can't lock anything or deploy drones when you first log in.
Thats great for people using exploits, but for those of us who have unreliable internet or older computers, it sounds like a deathtrap. Say I am in the middle of a lv 4, game crashes, I log in and can't engage anything? Oh look warp disruption frigs, oh look, I'm dead and can't do anything about it.
What about :
If you emergency warped out, you stay at put at your ss for one minute before warping back (non cancelable warp), unless someone appears on your grid (maybe even a cloaked ship) in which case the automatic warp back to where you came from is initialized, and if he tackle you you can defend yourself as usual.
By not affecting targeting that won't change a thing for people that got disconnected while scrammed or in a bubble.
With the 1 minute staying put at emergency warpout point the victims of the login trap would get a chance to deaggro and get out.
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
PCaBoo
RennTech
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 18:14:00 -
[24]
Yeah, in my experience with them; they either fight or they don't. There's never anything truly surprising about their actions. They send in scouts, if they like what they see, they'll fight. If they don't, it's back to empire to muster more forces or roaming somewhere else.
________________________________
Stop nerfing everything! |
Erikel
Cosmic Odyssey
YouWhat
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 18:15:00 -
[25]
Damn, we're already dead and they still have to use underhanded tactics.
|
Morden Nok
Cohortes Vigilum
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.01.07 18:17:00 -
[26]
Don't know anything about this particular incident, people often yell "login trap" when it's only question about poor intel. And yes, login traps are completely within EULA.
But I can confirm that Einherjar Rising seem to consider login traps valid tactic as I personally have seen one login trap done by Einherjar Rising against CVA.
If Einherjar Rising actually cares, contact me and I'll send time, location, names and ships of the pilots in question.
|
Razen21
|
Posted - 2008.01.08 07:41:00 -
[27]
i've heard of ER, it seems they are a notable force in PVP
|
Arekhon
Mutually Assured Distraction
|
Posted - 2008.01.08 08:43:00 -
[28]
if the FRAPS don't fit, you must acquit.
Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
[BEES] |
Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.01.08 09:57:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 08/01/2008 09:59:51
Originally by: Sexorella hotz
I'll start by saying its apparently entirely within the rules of the game, so I make this post just to keep the community aware or underhanded tactics in use. Einherjar was camping PF-346 with about 10 people, we had a 10 man gang to counter and warped in to engage, we had intel covering all the gates, and a review of our fraps also rules out any possible jump-ins as only one jump in was observed and was more than likely one of our pilots in orvolle.
The rest of our gang came from a system on the other side, when our 10 man gangs collided, local had spiked to 30, starting at 12 before the fight as our bait was warping in.
FRAPS showed several pilots warping in together, at the gate, so we have no doubt a login trap was used, just be aware, and CCP please throw us a bone and give us some sort of counter since right now its allowed but completely uncounterable, I see no reason to engage a enemies that employ these tactics.
Could be worse.
Lamer than doing login traps is being part of an alliance that backstabbs their allies, annoyes their neighbours, dies without a fight, smacks in local like crazy, reforms as a bob pet because it got promised anything, and in the end, it ends up in Fountain, with all the other losers and then start complaining about login traps.
So ... when did Beasts of Burden did a ressurect on the YW name ?
Originally by: Arekhon
if the FRAPS don't fit, you must acquit.
I love the Chewbacca defense !
Rifter is not X-Wing CCP. Trinity model kinda sucks. |
Arekhon
Mutually Assured Distraction
|
Posted - 2008.01.08 10:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Setana Manoro
Originally by: Arekhon
if the FRAPS don't fit, you must acquit.
I love the Chewbacca defense !
at least I didn't have to wait long for this response
Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
[BEES] |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |