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Samel Hysta
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Posted - 2008.01.07 20:09:00 -
[1]
Just an idea,
What if there was a sub-class of dreadnought which is unable to go into siege mode but has a greater number of smaller caliber turrets/launchers to compensate eg: 5x electron siege blaster. It purpose is to be a more mobile gun platform to rival the carrier fleets, although it wouldn't have a normal dreads firepower in siege mode it will be more useful for engaging other capitals.
I notice that all the siege weapons are the mid-range of their type, not sure if ccp has already planed for something like this but worth pointing it out.
Feel free to comment,
"The faster you kill the enemy, the less lag will be caused"
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Ohdows
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Posted - 2008.01.07 22:28:00 -
[2]
wouldnt that be a true bs-killer?
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HeadWar
North Star Networks
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.07 22:55:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Samel Hysta
I notice that all the siege weapons are the mid-range of their type, not sure if ccp has already planed for something like this but worth pointing it out.
What do you mean by this?
For all the three turret "flavors", there are long and short range versions in capital size.
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Xavia Cameron
Caldari
Southern Cross Incorporated
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.08 03:47:00 -
[4]
/signed. Dreads being useful in a normal fight. GOD YES.
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Samel Hysta
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Posted - 2008.01.09 13:30:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Samel Hysta on 09/01/2008 13:31:28
Originally by: HeadWar
Originally by: Samel Hysta
I notice that all the siege weapons are the mid-range of their type, not sure if ccp has already planed for something like this but worth pointing it out.
What do you mean by this?
For all the three turret "flavors", there are long and short range versions in capital size.
I mean for hyrbids there is Ion siege but for small sizes
there is also electrona nd neutron, for missles there capship size torps but no cruise,
As for bs killer, not really, it will be more affective agaisnt bs's than a normal dreadnought. But it may have greater damage than a noraml dread out of siege but alot less damage than one in siege mode. Also the large guns have to track the target bs's are alot more agile than it + because of the lack of siege mode its tank is only as gd as a carrier at best so it is easly killable by bs's.
 spellings there maby more but work calls
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Andreya
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2008.01.11 02:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Xavia Cameron
/signed. Dreads being useful in a normal fight. GOD YES.
no thanks, not signed. capitals coming into non capital fights is already EXTREMELY annoying.
last thin i wanna see if a 5 on 5 engagement, then some **** just cynos in 5 capitals 'just cause they can' and making the other 5 run away... woooo NOT fun
_________________________________________________________
Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
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Suoh Amshar
Amarr
Sane Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.11 02:47:00 -
[7]
i dont see why not. single-role ships are pointless, especially with the cost involved with cap ships. so yeah... /signed
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Samel Hysta
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Posted - 2008.01.11 15:54:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Samel Hysta on 11/01/2008 15:54:23
(no thanks, not signed. capitals coming into non capital fights is already EXTREMELY annoying.)
Its not desinged for fighting non-cap ships i thought that was the job of the supprting carriers its job is to counter the use of large number of carrier with in fleets - cap size guns don't track to well anyhow and getting blobbed is annoying no matter what they use.
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Rayst
Viscosity
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Posted - 2008.01.11 17:44:00 -
[9]
Interesting idea, you'd have to some how ensure that it wouldn't become a bs only killer. While the slow tracking does help avoid that theres still the possibility. It'd basically be a gunboat alternative to a carrier that can't go into siege mode. The tracking might need to be nerfed a bit more just so it only hits the dreadnaught, which could ensured through sig radius.
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Samel Hysta
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Posted - 2008.01.14 17:06:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Samel Hysta on 14/01/2008 17:06:23
How does this sound?
Gallente
5 highs 5 turret slots
5 meds
6 Lows
+5% to hybrid damage, +50% to drone damage
Amarr
5 Highs 5 turret slots
4 meds
7 lows
+5% to turret rof +10% to turret cap usage
Minmatar
5 Lows 5 turret slots
5 meds
6 lows
+5% to turret rof, + 7.5% to turret fall of
Caladari
5 highs 5 turret slots
6 meds
4 lows
+5% to shield resistances, +10% to turret optimum range
All ships get a +25% to turret damage and -25% to turet tracking as a class bonus.
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Thargat
Caldari
North Star Networks
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.14 19:09:00 -
[11]
Honestly it's not such a bad idea. Though normal dreads should be able to refit for this purpose.
Why should only carriers be able to fight in normal combat efficently (and we have heard claims that fighters and drones create lag). If dreads were more useful in normal combat operations then we probably would see a few less carriers on the frontlines in favour of dreads (less lag).
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |
Xangetzu Kenirou
Gallente
Southern Cross Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.01.14 19:12:00 -
[12]
A dreadnought already is an anti capital ship weapon. and siege mode is not something to use lightly and think of as the only purpose to a dread. sure the damage increases by why make yourself an easy target.
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Samel Hysta
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Posted - 2008.01.15 10:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Xangetzu Kenirou
A dreadnought already is an anti capital ship weapon. and siege mode is not something to use lightly and think of as the only purpose to a dread. sure the damage increases by why make yourself an easy target.
exsiting dreads arnt that gd really unless in seige mode which keeps them stuck in one location, (using eft for an example a pusle revulation 3 guns 2 heat sinks is 572 dps with out droensand 2400 alpha which isn't untankable by a carrier in siege dps goes up to 4150) So out of seige 4 dreads vs 4 carriers - carriers have remote reps energy neuts and more dps (eft says about 1000+ on thanatos) so really an effective dread would be nice.
using some semi-dodgy maths the dread with 5 guns and the bonus's I suggested would get about 1000-1300 dps (max skills) with out drones but a much larger alpha closer to 5.5k damage.
With probably less of a tank than a carrier but more direct fire power it would be failry balanced between them.
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Scelbit
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Posted - 2008.01.15 12:14:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Scelbit on 15/01/2008 12:17:13
I wouldnt adapt exsiitng dread to do this bcos 1) the affected bnus and roles that have been suggested would clash with the exsitng bonus's and 2) it means pilots nad fc's have to choose wat type of flett it wants to put togther rather than a ship that does everything.
+ the new dreads would support a titan better than exsiitng dreads
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YouGotRipped
Gallente
Ewigkeit
Galactic Research
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Posted - 2008.01.15 13:43:00 -
[15]
This game is about TEAMPLAY and support not uberpwnmobiles.
Jesus!
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Samel Hysta
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Posted - 2008.01.15 18:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
This game is about TEAMPLAY and support not uberpwnmobiles.
Jesus!
This isnÆt uberpwnmobile, a normal dread in sieges outclass it by miles, out of siege it does suffer against it. Again carriers itÆs a more equal match and with the tracking reduction it isnÆt going to alpha strike BSÆs and it is purely a team ship. As cap ships go it is probably the weakest tank but makes up for it in other ways. Look at a titan it has no other ship really that provides it fire power support of a similar kind. Dreads have weapons but again very poor damage out of siege and in siege they force the titan to remain with them which ruins the huge bonus to immunity to ew that it has.
Also less fighters = less lag but that a smaller point
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.01.15 19:08:00 -
[17]
I would oppose this, sounds too much like a BS killer which capitals should not be. Theres too much bigger-is-better going around as it is, and I dont want to come to a situation where someone who doesnt own or want to fly a capital is totally useless at anything but doing missions. In fact carriers should probably get a nerf of some sorts, they seem too much like super dominixes.
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Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler
Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Taki Kenirou
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Posted - 2008.01.15 19:20:00 -
[18]
fine then how about this, battleships. and you are correct, it is not wise to sit there imobile in a dread. if one wants to look at dread on dread combat, they may and see this fact to be true. If you want take a battleship and assult a dread, as these are the real dread killers already. having another ship to jump and require capital ship skills is really silly. if it's only purpose is to fight other capital ships, and fleet, then my answer is there is one, and that ship is the carrier. There really is no need for a small dread. If its purpose is to rival a carrier fleet, why not rival it with another carrier fleet. or better yet bring some EW, and battleships. a Rook/Lachesis combat is a nightmare for a carrier. even in triage mode, a perfect skills carrier with plenty of stront, faction tanking gear (this is based on armor tanking I have not done a chymera or nidhogger as of yet) can tank over 12,000 DPS effective DPS. one can look at eft and see this. 15 battleships can achieve this. let us not forget that a carrier in triage is not invincible. I believe like siege mode, it is unaffected by external forces, ieg can not be remote repped. and for that matter can it even have energy given to it by an external ship?
I don't want to sound like I am ripping the idea apart. I just do not see a purpose for it. anti capital forces already engage capitals in the game. a 200 on 200 man battle will occur similarly even with the advent of this new ship class. A carrier squadron can be combated by another carrier squadron, or a smart non capital gang. There is not really a need to develop more skills, for something that really is just a half capital ship. and if you think about the effectiveness of things around it, they will be easily destroyed. a fleet of 10 of those, will get smacked by a fleet of 10 dreads. in this respect, they would have every reason to go into siege, and the lower hit point half dread will not be able to compensate for the DPS unleashed by focused fire from dreads, even if they are not in siege mode.
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Samel Hysta
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Posted - 2008.01.16 02:15:00 -
[19]
1) it not a bs killer in fact it more vunerable to bs's than carriers. and with carrier porposed changes by a dev with the change to a mroe direct suport role with asgining figthers a true fleet cap ship isnt there.
2) with carirer changes it wont be able to kill other caps, and it owuld be really dull if stone age man said hey i'll use a club bcos it works rather invent a bow and arrow.
3) and saying "carrier fleet we sahll figth them with a larger carrier fleet" isnt that gd a solution.
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Xangetzu Kenirou
Gallente
Southern Cross Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.01.16 16:53:00 -
[20]
But a fleet cap ship is there if the fleet calls for it. was does a 200 on 200 gang need capital ships to fight each other. all we are doing is making a bigger badder ship class, and in the end a result is the same as it would be. capital ships coming in on already create fleets is the real issue, if they are uncalled for. ieg if there is not a pos, or already capital ships on the field there is no reason for a dread to be there. creating a semi dread, is pointless it just puts a bigger slower ship on the field, and doesn't really give an advantage, in fact it really is more of a disadvantage. if it is a true cap ship, it needs to be jump out and thus forces the fleet to stay longer waiting for it to be safely evacuated at the end. Besides, this is creating something that might not be a great idea simply for the boringness factor of it. give me strike groups not blob warfare at every turn. I feel that this ship would not be used at all to be honest. why bring a semi if you can bring a full or a carrier. you want to kill a dread or a carrier... fight him with battleships hacs recons and heavy dictors. enjoy. and if your worried about fighters, then fit 3 SBs and make the carrier pilot cry for being so foolish.
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Samel Hysta
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Posted - 2008.01.16 20:56:00 -
[21]
Cap ships are ment for fleet warfare a carrier has remote reps and assigns fighters its whole purpose is for fleets.
But more importnatly rather than have bs's hac's crusiers heavy dictors battale crusiers in "large numbers" to kill a carrier have one ship that can. It really speeds up fleet warefare and reduces the need for blobs. whilst at the same time not being uber, its also not bigger or badder it is just a more practile ship for fleets than exsisting dreads.
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OzDeaDMeaT
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Posted - 2008.01.17 23:02:00 -
[22]
All this would do is make this smaller Dreadnaught the new mainbattle craft instead of the battleship.
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Samel Hysta
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Posted - 2008.01.22 10:06:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Samel Hysta on 22/01/2008 10:07:37
Originally by: OzDeaDMeaT
All this would do is make this smaller Dreadnaught the new mainbattle craft instead of the battleship.
1) its not smaller just different, and on that arguement everyone would be in mauders for fleet ops, but 2 things prevent this from being so: Isk and skills I agree that it would take a huge tracking reduction a high cost and skill requirements but would still work as a ship.
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