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[Petition] Marauder Fix

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MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:01:00 - [31] I think the only main issues are the price they should cost more like 400mil to build and invent. Also a role bonus like with the guns of 100% to slavagers would be nice... pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:01:00 - [32] Hmmm. Thinking about it Maurauders might just be intended for 0.0 ratting. Combine one with an alt in an indy or better yet a Domi with all cargo expanders so you can get both ammo and drone refills plus repairs and you could live out in unfriendly stationless regions for a veeeeery long time. Add in a third alt in a cov ops to run faction mods into empire and you wouldn't have to dock for weeks or even more and do it all on one account to boot. runs off to finish skilling up for a Golem Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Novemb3r Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Zeba Mauraders are not now and never will be pvp ships. They are strictly pve toys for those who already have a set of full Estemel fitted faction mission ships. My CEO seems to be using his kronos fairly effectively in pvp in lowsec. It's not a solo ship but in a gang it's damage output is pretty huge. -
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:05:00 - [34] Yeah sorry should have put 'not intended to be' in there. Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Lock out Bald Industrial Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Pithecanthropus Making the ship better will only make the price higher. If any idiot wants to pay 800mil for a marauder, let them. It's still all very new, many people are still trying to invent one... or afford one... or even fly one. Prices will fall, just because its not quick enough... and maybe you all paid way too much for a ship that is 'not so good'... sorry. Actually, I doubt the prices would jump much. Only reason they sell for as much as they do now is because they cost that much to build. As far as I can tell, the ships are barely selling above the material costs, and they may even be selling for a loss if you factor in the cost of invention.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:07:00 - [36] Originally by: Lock out Originally by: Pithecanthropus Making the ship better will only make the price higher. If any idiot wants to pay 800mil for a marauder, let them. It's still all very new, many people are still trying to invent one... or afford one... or even fly one. Prices will fall, just because its not quick enough... and maybe you all paid way too much for a ship that is 'not so good'... sorry. Actually, I doubt the prices would jump much. Only reason they sell for as much as they do now is because they cost that much to build. As far as I can tell, the ships are barely selling above the material costs, and they may even be selling for a loss if you factor in the cost of invention. yeah but people think if they mine it themself it's free! pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Kailiani Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:09:00 - [37] This ship needs a salvage bonus along with the tractor bonus(or 4 extra highslots for 2 tractor/2 salvager). Then atleast 10% more DPS then the T1 counterpart(Golem, not sure on others). Maybe slight increase in cargo holds aswell, then these ships would be good to go.
SirMoric	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:31:00 - [38] Do you guys actually come running home, crying, AFTER investing in this ship? Why don't just accept that, maybe, this time we, the Caldari, haven't got the best ship in class. The biggest problem for the Maruader is it's lack of launchers, only take out one missile and they're down to 75 pct. firepower. So against rats it's not, as the Navy issue, better, rats like using anti-missiles. Cope with the fact that you actually don't have the meanest car around. rgds
Lock out Bald Industrial Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:39:00 - [39] Originally by: SirMoric Do you guys actually come running home, crying, AFTER investing in this ship? Why don't just accept that, maybe, this time we, the Caldari, haven't got the best ship in class. The biggest problem for the Maruader is it's lack of launchers, only take out one missile and they're down to 75 pct. firepower. So against rats it's not, as the Navy issue, better, rats like using anti-missiles. Cope with the fact that you actually don't have the meanest car around. rgds Uh, last I checked this thread was about all 4 of the Marauders, not just the Golem.
Dete Data	Posted - 2008.01.07 23:44:00 - [40] Edited by: Dete Data on 07/01/2008 23:44:14 Originally by: Lock out Originally by: SirMoric Do you guys actually come running home, crying, AFTER investing in this ship? Why don't just accept that, maybe, this time we, the Caldari, haven't got the best ship in class. The biggest problem for the Maruader is it's lack of launchers, only take out one missile and they're down to 75 pct. firepower. So against rats it's not, as the Navy issue, better, rats like using anti-missiles. Cope with the fact that you actually don't have the meanest car around. rgds Uh, last I checked this thread was about all 4 of the Marauders, not just the Golem. Yep, some people just read what they want to... All I can say is for as long as we have waited for T2 battleship they are a BIG DISAPPOINTMENT. But hey I for one have come to expect this out of CCP.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.08 00:00:00 - [41] Originally by: Zeba Mauraders are not now and never will be pvp ships. They are strictly pve toys for those who already have a set of full Estemel fitted faction mission ships. EVERYTHING is a PVP ship if fitted right and used in the right situation by people with the balls to risk it. /me salutes Tim <something> from Evoke who got his Kronos smashed to bits in Gallente low sec yesterday by Veto.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.08 00:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Dete Data Edited by: Dete Data on 07/01/2008 23:44:14 Originally by: Lock out Originally by: SirMoric Do you guys actually come running home, crying, AFTER investing in this ship? Why don't just accept that, maybe, this time we, the Caldari, haven't got the best ship in class. The biggest problem for the Maruader is it's lack of launchers, only take out one missile and they're down to 75 pct. firepower. So against rats it's not, as the Navy issue, better, rats like using anti-missiles. Cope with the fact that you actually don't have the meanest car around. rgds Uh, last I checked this thread was about all 4 of the Marauders, not just the Golem. Yep, some people just read what they want to... All I can say is for as long as we have waited for T2 battleship they are a BIG DISAPPOINTMENT. But hey I for one have come to expect this out of CCP. What you were probably expecting was a battleship-sized HAC. Sorry pal. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
NightmareX Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.08 00:24:00 - [43] Those who says the Kronos is not a PVP ship just need to get spanked because of beeing stupid. And those who says it just need to stop mining in empire and try out the ship before saying anything about the ship. For me the Kronos is uberwtfpwnage ship in PVP. Well i don't have it on TQ though, but i have tested it on sisi, and it OWNS CCP, fix my forum portrait FFS
SirMoric	Posted - 2008.01.08 00:36:00 - [44] Originally by: Dete Data Edited by: Dete Data on 07/01/2008 23:44:14 Originally by: Lock out Originally by: SirMoric Do you guys actually come running home, crying, AFTER investing in this ship? Why don't just accept that, maybe, this time we, the Caldari, haven't got the best ship in class. The biggest problem for the Maruader is it's lack of launchers, only take out one missile and they're down to 75 pct. firepower. So against rats it's not, as the Navy issue, better, rats like using anti-missiles. Cope with the fact that you actually don't have the meanest car around. rgds Uh, last I checked this thread was about all 4 of the Marauders, not just the Golem. Yep, some people just read what they want to... All I can say is for as long as we have waited for T2 battleship they are a BIG DISAPPOINTMENT. But hey I for one have come to expect this out of CCP. Darn.... My mistake, sorry. rgds
Kailiani Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.08 02:15:00 - [45] Edited by: Kailiani on 08/01/2008 02:19:33 Originally by: SirMoric Do you guys actually come running home, crying, AFTER investing in this ship? No, I'm still training BS V. Need AWU V and Energy grid upgrades V also. Though I see noone crying cept you crying over people talking about what they would like from a 600m boat. Cept this guy may be crying some xD Quote: All I can say is for as long as we have waited for T2 battleship they are a BIG DISAPPOINTMENT. But hey I for one have come to expect this out of CCP. Quote: Why don't just accept that, maybe, this time we, the Caldari, haven't got the best ship in class. I'd like the other races to have good pve boats aswell. Quote: The biggest problem for the Maruader is it's lack of launchers, only take out one missile and they're down to 75 pct. firepower. So against rats it's not, as the Navy issue, better, rats like using anti-missiles. False. Theres also a equal % less defenders being fired. Quote: Cope with the fact that you actually don't have the meanest car around. Not too hard being caldari
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.01.08 02:22:00 - [46] Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 08/01/2008 02:22:18 Originally by: NightmareX Those who says the Kronos is not a PVP ship just need to get spanked because of beeing stupid. And those who says it just need to stop mining in empire and try out the ship before saying anything about the ship. For me the Kronos is uberwtfpwnage ship in PVP. Well i don't have it on TQ though, but i have tested it on sisi, and it OWNS Grrr. Quiet you, or you're gonna get my ship nerfed. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Aneu Angellus Caldari DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.08 13:12:00 - [47] So anyone else got an oppinion on this? Aneu ________________
Beowulf Scheafer	Posted - 2008.01.08 13:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Glassback I fly my Kronos all the time in PvP. G. you, mr. are very dump. if you would plain NOT use it in pvp, CCP's statistics will sooner or later consider marauders "underused", thus increasing the chance to buff it and make it the bs sized hac we all want so badly greetz
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.01.08 14:40:00 - [49] I think the reason why the Kronos is considered so good is the fact that it has powergrid and CPU for a whole fleet. I don't have EVE or EFT around here, but I think you can fit four large t2 Neutron blasters and a dual t2 rep tank, and you still have over 1000pg left. No other Marauder has this much fitting room. In comparison, let's look at the Vargur: a ship which is generally considered to have awful grid. The heart of the issue is: for some reason - likely because blasters have too pitiful a range to use in missions - the Kronos was designed with rails in mind. For missionrunning. However, few people ran missions in Megathrons; in fact, it is one of the most popular PvP battleships. So the t2 Megathron is being used as a PvP battleship, as something the Megathron once was but now cannot be due to fittings: a blaster pwnmobile. The Vargur, on the other hand, was designed with autocannons in mind. Obviously autocannons have enough range to be used in missions, so CCP thinks. The problem here is, that people would rather fit artillery nevertheless. Because the ship, however, cannot even fit four mid-sized large artilleries without a t2 RCU and nothing else on board, it fails pretty hard in the eyes of the mission-running community. I guess it could do decent gank PvP... but, who wants to fly an untaked one billion ISK hull? Very very few people. The Paladin and the Golem are somewhere in between these two extremes.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.08 15:33:00 - [50] Edited by: Shadowsword on 08/01/2008 15:38:03 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Estephania Marauders are an investment. They are supposed to run missions fast, very fast and return the investment eventually. Now that investment is not viable. My Paladin beg to differ. The golem need a small boost and the vergur a big boost, but the Kronos and Paladin are fine ships to fly. The only really good Marauder is the Kronos. The Vargur needs to be able to fit Arties without fitting mods, the Paladin is no better than a competently fitted Abaddon and needs its tracking bonus back, and the Golem needs the RoF bonus or at least a bonus for exp radius rather than exp velocity. Granted, these ships make missions easier for the less professional people by expanding the tankability, but if you have a working high end gank fit on a T1 or Faction BS and have no need for more tanking, the T2 ones except the Kronos do not add anything atm. Can you fit an abaddon with beams or tachyons without using power diags, rigs or RCU? Nope. Can you use 3 damage mods on an abaddon with everything needed to perma-run weapons + tank, and still have one mid slot free for a web or AB? Nope. The only people saying the Paladin isn't better than the Abaddon are those who haven't tried it. Originally by: Ishina Fel The heart of the issue is: for some reason - likely because blasters have too pitiful a range to use in missions - the Kronos was designed with rails in mind. For missionrunning. However, few people ran missions in Megathrons; in fact, it is one of the most popular PvP battleships. So the t2 Megathron is being used as a PvP battleship, as something the Megathron once was but now cannot be due to fittings: a blaster pwnmobile. The megathron wasn't used all that much in missions because of the Torp Raven, that had more dps, and damage choice, at huge range. Now that torps got changed, you're probably going to see more Megathrons. ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.01.08 16:16:00 - [51] Admittedly... but, those who can use Megathrons could also just used Dominixes.
Doomed Predator The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.08 16:29:00 - [52] What the OP suggest would fix them kinda, but I'd be more happy if they made them more special by giving them a usefull role bonus. Like turret signiature resolution reduction/missile explosing radious reduction (giving them the ability to pwn cruiser sized ships.frigs should still be safe)
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.01.08 16:40:00 - [53] I thought we've come a bit further than simply giving tech 2 ships more damage to make them better. They may not be good enough by your standards, but a good pilot will make proper use of the advantages nonetheless. And compared to faction battleships - which until recently cost the same amount and people still used - those advantages are even more significant. You're just angry about Marauders because they're not an obvious choice for every idiot with money, and that anyone who is looking to buy and use one still has to know how to pvp better to win. It is just plain stupid to balance a ship based on its size, skillpoint requirements or cost. Every time it has been tried, it has failed miserably. Your solution is only a flaccid reminder of that. _______________________________ Complex Fullerene Shards; why God? :\|
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2008.01.08 17:10:00 - [54] As I see it marauders can be quite good ships if used correctly. More cargo means more space for cap boosters making tanking prolonged along with the higher res and increased hp. But the real thing with marauders comes with the ability to overload. I havent done any real tests yet but a marauder should be able to overload twice as long if not longer than its bs alternative. that is 15% more dmg for a substantial time. I view marauders as the first glimpse of what CCP have planned for overloading in the future. A bigger issue is the lack of sensors on the ships making htem dead easy to scan out and jam.
Brigitte S.A.S Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.01.08 17:32:00 - [55] Aneu... u have my vote m8 ship is a waste atm
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2008.01.08 17:43:00 - [56] Originally by: Adonis 4174 I would settle for someone replacing the Golem's damage bonus with a RoF bonus. I know it would be contraversial but defenders are way too powerful against the Golem right now with its four double-damage missiles. I'd rather lose some ammo to actually hit. No. ******* hell. No. How many god damned times do you need the mechanics of PVE defender missiles explained to you?
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.08 17:53:00 - [57] Meh, gonna build me a Golem, just because i can The Widow might have more usage for me though. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.08 18:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Adonis 4174 I would settle for someone replacing the Golem's damage bonus with a RoF bonus. I know it would be contraversial but defenders are way too powerful against the Golem right now with its four double-damage missiles. I'd rather lose some ammo to actually hit. NPC defender have a fixed chance to intercept each incoming missiles, so the number of missiles launched has 0 impact of the percentage of missiles lost. You fire 4 missiles against a ship with 25% chance of intercepting, you lose 1 missile, you fire 1000 missiles against the same ship, you lose 25 missiles. NPC don't use time to reload, lock target, don't have a rof on defender. They have a fixed chance to intercept the missiles fired. Stop.
corroded	Posted - 2008.01.08 18:51:00 - [59] Both the blackops and marauders seem a bit "underwhelming".. (read: total waste of time and isk) marauders, well , Ccp youve ran out of good ideas and are using pictionary as a designtool, arent ya?!?!? ffs, just put in slotmachines in the stations if you have to invent isk-sinks. blackops, hmm well lets see, the sin.. a battleship with drones.. that cant warp cloaked and gets a lock-penalty.. The only redeeming factor i see with marauders (and kronos especially) is the ability to fit gank and tank. I think the gallentean hulls should be swapped, marauder- domi (drone-ratter, just like it should be) Blackops- Megathron, ooh yes, need i explain? But, i havent had my coffee, so ill just vote for a total erasure of the mentioned classes. hmm, i wonder how long before this has turned into "wow-Space-edition" completely. Bah, Humbug!
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.08 18:52:00 - [60] Personally I think that blockade runners should be uber firepower T2 Q ship haulers, but they aren't. You know how I cope with that? I don't buy them. Just because Marauders aren't what you want them to be Aneu, is not to say that lots of other people aren't happy with them. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure

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