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ATTN: BRUCE ~ A Market Traitor In Your Midst

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Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:16:00 - [1] Let's get this out of the way first, in case anyone doubts it: Selling at exorbitant prices in 0.0 is a good thing. If you sell at lower prices, a hostile entity will come along and buy up your stock and reprice it higher. If you sell at lower prices, people will stockpile and when someone genuinely needs a module/ammo/whatever, it won't be available. To put it another way, if you sell at lower prices, you: Decrease the likelihood that friendly pilots will have access to whatever you're selling, and/or Act as a low-paid courier service for your enemies (and competitors). Now, let's look at the tactic of buying out lower-priced competitors in order to set the price to a higher level of your choosing (assuming you're doing so in a friendly station, are selling some items you've brought down on your own, and intend to sell primarily to friendly pilots). Now, you: Make no change in the availability of the item in question (it was already available, after all, before you did anything). Decrease the likelihood that friendly pilots can afford your wares. Or, to sum it up, you cause friendlies to pay more than they would in an unmanipulated market for no corresponding increase in item availability. -- As such, I present: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/Taiko.PNG http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/Taiko2.PNG When I confronted him, he had this to say: [ 2008.01.10 13:10:10 ] Taiyo Takeda > You go right ahead and tell them. [ 2008.01.10 13:10:44 ] Taiyo Takeda > I cleaned out a few very old orders so that the outpost sale markets would be neat and orderly, and put my own up at my usual pricing. [ 2008.01.10 13:10:51 ] Taiyo Takeda > If you want to try and villify me for that, you go right ahead. So, BRUCE members--do you appreciate this member's behavior? Do you think he's serving your best interests by repricing in this manner? To all ZERO. investors--fear not. He's already been undercut. If he wants to keep buying me out at my already-exorbitant prices, I certainly intend to let him do so. I have a good reason for publicizing this. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:16:00 - [2] Let's get this out of the way first, in case anyone doubts it: Selling at exorbitant prices in 0.0 is a good thing. If you sell at lower prices, a hostile entity will come along and buy up your stock and reprice it higher. If you sell at lower prices, people will stockpile and when someone genuinely needs a module/ammo/whatever, it won't be available. To put it another way, if you sell at lower prices, you: Decrease the likelihood that friendly pilots will have access to whatever you're selling, and/or Act as a low-paid courier service for your enemies (and competitors). Now, let's look at the tactic of buying out lower-priced competitors in order to set the price to a higher level of your choosing (assuming you're doing so in a friendly station, are selling some items you've brought down on your own, and intend to sell primarily to friendly pilots). Now, you: Make no change in the availability of the item in question (it was already available, after all, before you did anything). Decrease the likelihood that friendly pilots can afford your wares. Or, to sum it up, you cause friendlies to pay more than they would in an unmanipulated market for no corresponding increase in item availability. -- As such, I present: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/Taiko.PNG http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0801/Taiko2.PNG When I confronted him, he had this to say: [ 2008.01.10 13:10:10 ] Taiyo Takeda > You go right ahead and tell them. [ 2008.01.10 13:10:44 ] Taiyo Takeda > I cleaned out a few very old orders so that the outpost sale markets would be neat and orderly, and put my own up at my usual pricing. [ 2008.01.10 13:10:51 ] Taiyo Takeda > If you want to try and villify me for that, you go right ahead. So, BRUCE members--do you appreciate this member's behavior? Do you think he's serving your best interests by repricing in this manner? To all ZERO. investors--fear not. He's already been undercut. If he wants to keep buying me out at my already-exorbitant prices, I certainly intend to let him do so. I have a good reason for publicizing this. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
YouGotRipped Gallente Ewigkeit Galactic Research	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:34:00 - [3] Can someone tell me where this nice lady is selling stuff? I want to undercut here too.
YouGotRipped Gallente Ewigkeit Galactic Research	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:34:00 - [4] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 10/01/2008 14:41:09 Can someone tell me where this nice lady is selling stuff? I want to undercut her too. ---- typo Oooh, Fountain. Ask me about price compression.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:35:00 - [5] I was once ridiculed for saying selling at Jita Prices in the drone regions was an exercise in futility..... Can't complain if he does this kind of marketing, if people buy it then he gets to keep the money, is the problem that his alliance has a policy against this? ~Nyron Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:35:00 - [6] I was once ridiculed for saying selling at Jita Prices in the drone regions was an exercise in futility..... Can't complain if he does this kind of marketing, if people buy it then he gets to keep the money, is the problem that his alliance has a policy against this? ~Nyron Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.10 14:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Motivated Prophet To all ZERO. investors--fear not. I think your investors have enough on their plates wondering when/if the next dividend is coming http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Richard Kitan United Space Republic Research	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:01:00 - [8] Back when I used to live in Deklein and Branch my alliance had a rule that anything sold up there needed to be priced at Empire prices. I tried to explain to them how this would just result in nothing being available on the market because if I had to sell at Empire prices, why wouldn't I just sell in Empire where logistics are much easier and it would sell much quicker, and I didn't need to pay for isotopes to jump things up on the carrier, but they didn't care. Of course, this wound up making it so that nothing except juggernaut torpedoes was available on the market. There was also a hostile that lived in a station further down in Dek that bought anything that was sold at reasonable prices on the market and resold them at high prices. The reasoning that my alliance leaders had given for requiring us to price things at empire prices was that they didn't want us gouging alliance mates. Well hell, I have no problem putting up a couple ships on Alliance contracts for my buddies, but on the open market, let the market determine the price. -- Richard Kitan Builder of Stuff
YouGotRipped Gallente Ewigkeit Galactic Research	Posted - 2008.01.10 15:21:00 - [9] Originally by: Richard Kitan There was also a hostile (the big bad wolf) that lived in a station further down in Dek that bought anything that was sold at reasonable prices on the market and resold them at high prices. The reasoning that my alliance leaders had given for requiring us to price things at empire prices was that they didn't want us gouging alliance mates. Well hell, I have no problem putting up a couple ships on Alliance contracts for my buddies, but on the open market, let the market determine the price. I don't know about the rest but I find this part extremely funny.
Confuzer Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:53:00 - [10] What am I looking at with the pictures? That he ask much for an item? I do this all the time in hostile stations. If you put stuff up for low prices, you are asking to be bought out and seeing your stuff for higher prices on the market. ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved.
Seideberg The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:16:00 - [11] Damn that selfish, freeloading Taiyo Takeda and his exploitation of BRUCE!
Monty Kvaran Caldari Consolidated Sprocket	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:18:00 - [12] I'm a bit new at this, but can someone explain how a person buying your stuff is bad? Unless he is shooting it at you what do you care what he does with it? .
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:30:00 - [13] First I have to say Ricdic's post gave me a chuckle. Second, I am a bit confused. Is this a serious thread? If so what exactly is the problem here? It looks like a whine thread... am I wrong in getting that impression? Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Tabet Saens The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:32:00 - [14] All I can tell from the images you posted, is that Taiyo put on the market "armored warfare specialist" skill books for 2.5million. Is there something inherently bad with that? I don't quite understand the point of the OP, with regards to the images linked. What exactly do the pictures show again?
Viilaa Caldari OH Corp	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Tabet Saens All I can tell from the images you posted, is that Taiyo put on the market "armored warfare specialist" skill books for 2.5million. Is there something inherently bad with that? I don't quite understand the point of the OP, with regards to the images linked. What exactly do the pictures show again? He is saying that Taiyo paid 2.5M for them and is selling them for 22.5M. Personally thats a nice markup.. Where can I make that kind of profit ? If people are willing to pay 22.5M for that book at that location then that is the price no matter what it costs elsewhere. Viilaa
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:33:00 - [16] This is nothing new. Happens all the time in 0.0 markets. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Tandori Tanaka Tanaka Stuff and Supplies	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Shadarle Second, I am a bit confused. Is this a serious thread? If so what exactly is the problem here? It looks like a whine thread... am I wrong in getting that impression? MP lost access to all that nice outposts when the war hit fountain. Now hes basically complaining about that someone else picked up his business and plays with the markets now. Instead of adapting, he is posting this as an futile attempt to get rid of his competitor. So yes, its just a whine
Tabet Saens The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:07:00 - [18] Originally by: Viilaa Originally by: Tabet Saens All I can tell from the images you posted, is that Taiyo put on the market "armored warfare specialist" skill books for 2.5million. Is there something inherently bad with that? I don't quite understand the point of the OP, with regards to the images linked. What exactly do the pictures show again? He is saying that Taiyo paid 2.5M for them and is selling them for 22.5M. Personally thats a nice markup.. Where can I make that kind of profit ? If people are willing to pay 22.5M for that book at that location then that is the price no matter what it costs elsewhere. Viilaa The picture does not indicate that at all. The books are listed at 2,500,000.01. That's 1 cent over 2.5million ISK. He's selling 9 of them at that price. Using my trusty calculator, 9 books at that price = 22,500,000,09. The image does not show that last 9 cents, because it covers it up. However that's all we're seeing. So, again, what exactly is the problem here? Is 2.5mil for that book in fountain an outrageous price? I wouldn't think so. A few battleship rats cover that easily. BTW, Taiyo is not my alt, but a friend of mine.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:26:00 - [19] Those screenshots don't show what the books were repriced at........... Also lol @ Ricdic. Welcome to the club with us in Tinydot.
Phaedriel	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:32:00 - [20] Can I assume that because someone bought something that you were trying to sell, at the price you asked for, is the cause you aren't happy? Does anyone else see where the OP might be the cause of his own unhappiness here? Golden Rule: Offer to sell things for a price you want to sell them for... If someone buys them, BE HAPPY, you achieved exactly what you wanted... Some people are never happy... Perhaps you should: a) keep bringing it to the station if you're happy with the markup you have b) keep bringing it to the station and price it 10 isk below his prices. If he buys you out, you've made a huge profit, if not, you'll sell yours first at least...
Myrdyr	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:54:00 - [21] Originally by: Tandori Tanaka MP lost access to all that nice outposts Originally by: Phaedriel a) keep bringing it to the station if you're happy with the markup you have listening to someone whine in MD about missing out about potential profits: priceless
Auri Hella Anqara Industries Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:08:00 - [22] Thread title is highly amusing if you know whose alt Taiyo is
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Phaedriel Can I assume that because someone bought something that you were trying to sell, at the price you asked for, is the cause you aren't happy? Does anyone else see where the OP might be the cause of his own unhappiness here? Golden Rule: Offer to sell things for a price you want to sell them for... If someone buys them, BE HAPPY, you achieved exactly what you wanted... Some people are never happy... Perhaps you should: a) keep bringing it to the station if you're happy with the markup you have b) keep bringing it to the station and price it 10 isk below his prices. If he buys you out, you've made a huge profit, if not, you'll sell yours first at least... I'm thrilled that he's buying me out at the prices I'm selling at. I picked those prices because I was quite happy to sell at them, and I still am. He's giving me more volume in five minutes than I'd gotten on a couple of those books in five months. I'm simply alerting BRUCE that he's screwing them over. I chose a poor screenshot; I'm remedy that in a bit. A better example would be him buying out 10 Production Efficiency skillbooks (NPC price: 225k, my price: 750k) and repricing them at 2m apiece. The chosen screenshot just demonstrates that he's an idiot (buying out my stock and then reselling them at the same price is not the work of a market genius, methinks). There's been a lot of static, but I have yet to hear a BRUCE member express happiness that they're paying more for their skillbooks. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:59:00 - [24] Still trying to figure out the point to this thread. Things like this are hardly new or news. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Fader Bane Black Knight Buccaneers Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.11 03:02:00 - [25] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Motivated Prophet To all ZERO. investors--fear not. I think your investors have enough on their plates wondering when/if the next dividend is coming so true it has potential for derailment. ________________________________________
Dagam GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.11 03:16:00 - [26] motivated prophet has an alt in AXE
Outa Rileau Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.01.11 03:47:00 - [27] Originally by: Dagam motivated prophet has an alt in AXE If this is true, point please? ------------------------- OMG YELLOW TXT!
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.11 04:01:00 - [28] Originally by: Outa Rileau Originally by: Dagam motivated prophet has an alt in AXE If this is true, point please? that his main is in AXE is common knowledge for a long time. What is not so common is who that main is, a select few know, but most likely wont spill those beans for reasons of trust, promises or morales. --
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:34:00 - [29] I REALLY must be missing something here. If a newb made this thread we'd have shouted him off the forums... the fact that MP made it makes this even more pathetic. If this was truly good for you then you wouldn't be posting about it, you'd be trying to exploit it. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Professor Pardal	Posted - 2008.01.11 07:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Motivated Prophet I'm thrilled that he's buying me out at the prices I'm selling at. I picked those prices because I was quite happy to sell at them, and I still am. He's giving me more volume in five minutes than I'd gotten on a couple of those books in five months. I'm simply alerting BRUCE that he's screwing them over. MP 1- Coming to the forum crying is pathetic. 2- If you wanna warn them do it by private means. If i was the other guy i would accuse you of harassment. 3- If you are so worried about BRUCE member wallets just keep bringing more books and undercutting by massive amounts the competition. 4- If i where you before i had any major information on TINY i would stay low profile.

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