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Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.12 02:36:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
To be fair, why insurance are paid to ships killed by Concord policemen?
Surely you know better.
Anyway, for the uninformed yeah...makes zero sense with regard to all we understand about insurance but hey...this is a game and they do what they want.
In game terms the Devs seem to want suicide ganking. There is a cost associated with suicide ganking. If the Devs felt the cost was too little they could use insurance payouts as a means of adjusting how high that bar is.
Considering they have never made a change in this regard one can only assume the Devs think everything is just peachy as is.
People are SERIOUSLy off the ball with the whole 'insurance payout' thing.
Your in a hound. You gank a shuttle with a 1 bill BPO in it.
Do you think the ganker gives even the remotest **** about a 5 million isk insurance payout when his alt is hottailing it in the opposite direction with a billion isk in his cargo?
SKUNK
If an Amarr providencec was carrying 1 billion worth of slaves, and it costed 300mil after insurance to kill it. It is safe to assume the job is worth 200mil assuming half cargo destroyed.
if it costs 300mil to kill a Amarr freightor - and the Providence was carrying 400mil - is it worth it? Not really.
If it costs 5mil carcarel to pop a Amarr Shuttle with titan BPO - is it worth it? Hell yeah
So only if its worth the loss, its worth the gank. No insurance will increate the cost of loss.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.01.12 02:42:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 12/01/2008 02:46:02
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
To be fair, why insurance are paid to ships killed by Concord policemen?
Surely you know better.
Anyway, for the uninformed yeah...makes zero sense with regard to all we understand about insurance but hey...this is a game and they do what they want.
In game terms the Devs seem to want suicide ganking. There is a cost associated with suicide ganking. If the Devs felt the cost was too little they could use insurance payouts as a means of adjusting how high that bar is.
Considering they have never made a change in this regard one can only assume the Devs think everything is just peachy as is.
People are SERIOUSLy off the ball with the whole 'insurance payout' thing.
Your in a hound. You gank a shuttle with a 1 bill BPO in it.
Do you think the ganker gives even the remotest **** about a 5 million isk insurance payout when his alt is hottailing it in the opposite direction with a billion isk in his cargo?
SKUNK
If an Amarr providencec was carrying 1 billion worth of slaves, and it costed 300mil after insurance to kill it. It is safe to assume the job is worth 200mil assuming half cargo destroyed.
if it costs 300mil to kill a Amarr freightor - and the Providence was carrying 400mil - is it worth it? Not really.
If it costs 5mil carcarel to pop a Amarr Shuttle with titan BPO - is it worth it? Hell yeah
So only if its worth the loss, its worth the gank. No insurance will increate the cost of loss.
People have this big hard on for freighter gankers as they are (despite being incredibly rare) a visible reminder of how everything in this game can be killed anywhere out of dock range.
BUT
The vast majority of suicide ganks are done BY small ships, battle cruiser and below, ON small ships shuttles,frigates,haulers.
Two stealth bombers can take out any of the above.
Cost of two stealth bombers and fittings (assuming no insurance comes in) is about 30 million isk tops. Chicken feed basically.
So removing insurance payouts on concorded ships will (whilst making the one freighter who gets ganked every month slightly safer) have ZERO effect on 99% of highsec ganks.
SKUNK
EDIT:
Its no mystery... Nothing to bother CCP about.... not one line of code will have to be written...
 What will have an effect is people not hitting the big (A) button, and wondering off to watch neighbours with a bill in their cargo hold.
Its as simple as that. Knock out 95% of suicide ganks by not going AFK on autopilot.
The other 5% of 'live' ganks can be dealt with by correct selection of ships for the cargo, and adequately tanking your ship, and *gasp* perhaps thinking about taking two trips instead of one.
SKUNK
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Flinx Evenstar
Minmatar
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2008.01.12 02:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Two stealth bombers can take out any of the above.
Cost of two stealth bombers and fittings (assuming no insurance comes in) is about 30 million isk tops. Chicken feed basically.
So removing insurance payouts on concorded ships will (whilst making the one freighter who gets ganked every month slightly safer) have ZERO effect on 99% of highsec ganks.
SKUNK
Dont forget the gank Brutix. I know guys that don't even bother insuring them. Thye just wait for the fool in the T1 hauler carrying around 200mil of loot. It's fair gamble
Sometimes they only make 10mil for their sec loss  . Other times of course, you can easily grab a full set of +5's and some ship interfaces.
Few months ago, that's all we scanned for ( Ship interface ), they were worth around 500 mil each, and you would see cheap haulers carrying around 5- 10 of them. 1 Brutix...and its all good.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.01.12 03:02:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Few months ago, that's all we scanned for ( Ship interface ), they were worth around 500 mil each, and you would see cheap haulers carrying around 5- 10 of them. 1 Brutix...and its all good.
Yummers!
SKUNK
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ddr800
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Posted - 2008.01.12 03:30:00 -
[35]
I run a pretty decent mule corp. for my main and I have had to deal with suicide gank in jita for months. The easiest way to avoid them. #1 carry highly expensive cargo that is small like ship interfaces or implants. However donĘt carry them in a hauler use a covert ops ship, With a ship that can warp while cloaked and remains visible about 1.2 secs at jump points I have run over 95b in implants into Jita in a cov ops and regularly run 40B+ and laugh all the way to my wallet at them. large cargo the freighter is you safest bet. I doubt they can pull of a suicide gank with 15 people in empire before they all die. 120,000 structures is no joke.
I agree there is a way to counter the problem which is good, I however donĘt agree that It is in the spirit of the game as was with the recent mod nerf of mineral compression, a great idea was nerfed, it wasnĘt exploitation it was people being very smart however not playing the game the way the devs wanted us too.
I at that point lost a lot of respect for this team and company. I didnĘt use said nerf but it just showed me brains to crunch numbers and make excel spread sheets like corp. drones are rewarded in eve not real igneous thinkers.
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FuzzBuzz
Caldari
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.01.12 04:25:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Xavior Mousepractice
I was trying to understand what sort of firepower (cost of fleet) would be needed to kill me before concorde arrived. Please see op for specifics.
As was already noted in the thread around 15 Domis can zap a freighter with well over 100K effective hitpoints in less than 30 seconds. All costs considered and with their insurance payout coming back to them each Domi costs less than 30 mil. So around 450 mil for 15 Domis to zap a freighter. If the freighter has 1 billion in cargo they can expect a 500 million payday so they come out ahead (albeit 50 mil divided 15 ways is probably not quite worth the effort).
Without knowing your exact setup I am willing to bet that same gank squad could down your battleship with ease (probably with fewer Domis than 15 actually). With 1.5 bil in fittings you are probably worth the effort (depends on the mods and how much is wrapped up in each...a single 500 mil mod going pop will mess their profit margin).
Little of your setup is helpful to you except resists and plates in this case (anything that gives you raw HP). Your reppers will barely get off 1, maybe 2, cycles which is pathetic in the face of the DPS they will be dishing out.
In short you will die fast and get to watch them haul your stuff from your pod and there is jack-all you can do about it really aside from not using expensive mods (or missioning in 1.0 - 0.8 systems where CONCORD presumably shows up faster).
to me this isnt worth the time or effort, i suicided a few ships in a brutix, costs like 3-4m after insurance payout to gank someone (auto pilot haulers) at 3m a pop its worth the attempt to kill a hauler, i have failed a few times as the ships were tanked up, but 3m and 0.5% sec loss is nothing.
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In this game, what becomes popular becomes overpowered, what becomes overpowered gets nerfed. NEXT! endless cycle. |
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