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Intrusion in missions

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Scel Eratus	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:26:00 - [61] Edited by: Scel Eratus on 14/01/2008 17:32:03 Salvage rights to an abandoned vessel are given to the first person to claim the vessel and have the means to salvage it. Unfortunately for missioners, this means that if someone probes out your mission while you are running it, they can claim the salvage there. Edit: And no, players don't gain exclusive salvage rights because they created the wreck. Why? Because they lack the means of salvage. If salvaging is so important to you, fit and flippin salvager instead of an 8th gun, hire a salvager, start an alt, do any of a number of other things than complain on the forums.
SencneS Amarr Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:27:00 - [62] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Atlanton Marcus Think of wrecks as asteroids that appear when you destroy a ship. Problem solved. Kind of like loot? Face it, players create wrecks. They don't create asteroids, or NPCs. So you can't really use that analogy when it comes to ownership. The wrecks are there only because someone else made an effort to create it. Nice that you skip right over my detailed explanation of exactly what Atlanton Marcus said. Like Asteroids you need to perform an action on the wreak for it to be of any value. In it's current forum it's worthless. The loot can only be taken by the killer, but the wreak is absolute no value to anyone. It's not until an action is performed on it that it has worth. Whoever performs that action gets the reward. For killing the ship that makes the wreak you get a reward, the ISK and the loot. You need to perform an action on the wreak to get a reward from that. You're basically saying they no right to perform that action. Well them lets add something to EVE - Asteroid mining rights. File at your local Concord office for mining right to a belt. Anyone found mining in your belt will be flagged for you to kill them! Amarr for Life
Shinkage Ryuha	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:36:00 - [63] As a mission runner, I personally do not see the issue with salvagers. I have on occasion made deals with one beneficial for both. If I have an individual salvager then I try to pop the pilot. I wish salvaggers luck in their proffesion.
William Ortega Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:45:00 - [64] Originally by: Shinkage Ryuha As a mission runner, I personally do not see the issue with salvagers. I have on occasion made deals with one beneficial for both. If I have an individual salvager then I try to pop the pilot. I wish salvaggers luck in their proffesion. Thats the thing. Even in Motsu with a hundred people running missions simultaneously, you will have one or two mission intrusions at any given time. For a given person you will have your salvage "stolen" maybe once every 20-30 missions (not even that but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here). In all the time I used to run missions (admittedly not in the last couple of months), my mission got broken into ONCE, and I'm flying a domi which is a lot easier to scan down than your regular garden variety raven. The amount of whining generated by people loosing out on a mil or two worth of salvaging materials once every couple of weeks is way out of proportion . -Willy
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2008.01.15 05:11:00 - [65] Edited by: Kalixa Hihro on 15/01/2008 05:10:46 Originally by: Apollo487 I'm personally a fan of warping out and letting them take agro. Definitely the solution. /----------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong.
WardogX Minmatar Outkasts	Posted - 2008.01.15 07:27:00 - [66] Edited by: WardogX on 15/01/2008 07:33:21 I still am under the philosophy that ccp wants to systematically stop the usage of drones in eve. Lets look at the facts.. long time ago.. 10 drones .. turned into 5... and lots of drone cargo capacity nerfs then drone bandwidth (which is a whole new tricky way to work around drone cargo capacity) then the proposed fighter nerf on carriers and moms (which got shot down harshly.. and i am amazed they revoked the concept) now drones are the bane of mission runners allowing themselves to be spotted by explorers (also useful in other situations.. to hunt down the drone users) does it not seem like ccp hates drones... i just cant figure out if ccp thinks they throw pvp/pve game balance out of whack.. or if they think drones are the cause of lag so they want to cut back on that. Either or... year after year.. there intentions are becoming obvious (at least to me) Just be a pure gun boat and you wont have to deal with this. (pop drones out just to knock out the mission drones and frigs.. and return them to you bay the rest of the time.) you can gun down the rest... less drone fly time means less of a chance of exposure to probes. PS: another alternative is have an alt account flyin a salvager picking up after yourself as you go.. at least on level 4 missions they are easy enough you can get away with having your attention split in 2 directions without risk of losing your ship.
VIP Ares	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:20:00 - [67] Edited by: VIP Ares on 15/01/2008 13:21:38 Man I dont wanna be rude, but what you are proposing is totally MAD ! If you add INSTANCES to this game, I am sure hal fof ppl would just quit same moment. While all other stupid games solved all their techincal problems with instancing, EVE was only game to survive in one universe, without any instances where ppl can hide and farm in safety. Long live EVE, who want instances and safe zones- there are plenty of games which provides such environments. And btw, calling ppl who search for and salvage your wrecks lowlifes :/ cmon, play the game and have fun with all bad things and good things you may encounter in space. that is what makes this game so special and different then all others on the market. /cheers And sorry for dropping in this topic so long after it started and maybe changed topic a bit, but I had to reply to original post.
Tyrell Foehammer	Posted - 2008.01.15 13:50:00 - [68] Edited by: Tyrell Foehammer on 15/01/2008 13:52:05 Just be glad they're only salvaging and not there to pop you. I hate getting popped when doing a mission.
Xeronn Amarr Free Market Enterprizes Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.15 16:43:00 - [69] Edited by: Xeronn on 15/01/2008 16:46:04 i`m slowly starting to see where privateers and raketeers come from oh dont get me wrong i still hate these guys, i really do (ingame ofcourse , i`d buy them a beer IRL) , carebears hunting down noobs and defensless targets and calling themselves "leeet pirates" .But then again they hate me , i`m the noob turned 0.0 soldier (heh...let them blobs come!!) But reguardless of my feelings at some given time (privateers poped my BS in empire...you can bet i hate them , i`m only human) , I LOVE EVE , i love the fact that empire wars are posible , i love that shooting anyone anywhere is posible , i love that you can loot anything from anyone anywhere (yes you CAN loot someone`s wrecks if flaged , remember , concord provides consequences not protection)..ah you all know why eve is great /rant over Though i believe EvE won`t die at the hands of some WoW carebears (when eve will have instances or any sort of 100% safe area it will be DEAD , fact) , it`s still scary to see these kind of posts...it`s scary because CCP has a way of listening to whines . So CCP , i know you know allready but DOT LET EVE GO DOWN IN THE MASS OF NAMELESS WOW CLONES OUT THERE Privateers , racketeers , any any other guys that run in****abonds killing haulers or camp my way down to 25S , keep it up , you seem to be the best tool for filtering out eve population and driving pests away Oh CCP Do listen to one whine! Please nerf down the amarr...now that i went minmatar i`d probably jump in front of a bestower if u dare to make the apoc work or even consider bringing lasers up par with guns
Blue Wraith	Posted - 2008.01.15 22:52:00 - [70] I ***** up when I hear that instancing will "kill Eve". Was Eve dead when you couldn't probe out mission runners a few months back? Maybe I missed that. Also note that all deadspace missions with gates that you have to jump through are "instanced"... it's just that anyone can enter the instance.

Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.01.16 00:52:00 - [71] Originally by: Blue Wraith Was Eve dead when you couldn't probe out mission runners a few months back? Maybe I missed that. You're missing something, as that hasn't ever been the case. A few weeks ago, probing was easier by virtue of wrecks showing up on the directional scanner. About a year ago, it was much, much easier than now because there was no deadspace penalty to scans. Before Kali, it was harder and more esoteric than now, but not as a rule impossible. Quote: Also note that all deadspace missions with gates that you have to jump through are instanced... it's just that anyone can enter the instance. EVE deadspaces are contiguous with regular space, and in theory people can enter them without using an acceleration gate. (By being there before they spawn or by flying really fast.) But that's almost beside the point, as instancing by definition also does not allow more than one party to enter the same dungeon locale, whether it's through the front door or some other way. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Couv Ilion Caldari Knights Of Serenity Zeta Tau Epsilon	Posted - 2008.01.16 03:17:00 - [72] Edited by: Couv Ilion on 16/01/2008 03:18:51 My problem is not so much with the salvaging itself, it's more about when it's happening. Both last night and tonight I had someone enter my mission space and salvage AND LOOT my wrecks. The problem lies in that, unbeknownst to me, they were in the first room looting and salvaging my wrecks while I was in the 2nd and 3rd rooms of the mission killing the rest of the rats. By the time I finished up the mission and returned in my salvager, all of the battleships had already been looted and salvaged, with only frigate wrecks left over. I understand salvaging a mission after it's over and been left. That should be fair game. But to allow someone to enter a mission while its still going on and take the items that dropped from rats that I killed is ludicrous. I did not even get a chance to loot/salvage my own wrecks. I would really like some kind of timer before someone was allowed to loot/salvage your wrecks. Say an hour, 2, 3...something. Or maybe a message when someone loots something that's "your" kill.
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.01.16 03:27:00 - [73] If they wanted people to salvage after missions have been closed ( not the ones who did the mission ) they would've made wrecks scannable. I bet less missions would be entered by people (who had not been given this mission an agent to do) if they could find wrecks without having to enter dead spaces. ___ All Ur Salvage R Belong 2 Me !
Couv Ilion Caldari Knights Of Serenity Zeta Tau Epsilon	Posted - 2008.01.16 03:47:00 - [74] I'm fine with salvaging with the mission still open...as long as someone else can't enter my mission, I won't end the mission before I salvage it. That could be a good way to remedy this
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.01.16 03:55:00 - [75] People are always going to be able to enter your mission. ___ All Ur Salvage R Belong 2 Me !
Weeka Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.01.16 05:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Checkis Khan I am sorry, but I fail to see what the location has to do with the point here. It's just that everyone, and their dog, do missions in motsu, apart from getting really heavy lag in peak times, it means that people who come to salvage your mission while you are doing it, are rather concentrated in this mission hub. Go somewhere else less crowded and it'll probably never happen again to you.
banshu Caldari Terran Republic Ore Co. Hitchhiker's Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.28 17:41:00 - [77] Don`t use drones in misssions and problem solved Why is so complicated ?
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.01.28 18:31:00 - [78] Originally by: banshu Don`t use drones in misssions and problem solved Why is so complicated ? Use drones to your hearts content in missions, just don't do missions in the systems where salvagers operate. It really couldn't be simpler.
Wahjoo Minmatar Pandemic Influenza Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2008.01.28 20:21:00 - [79] Maybe the answer would be to simply change the rules in deadspace to where anyone who enters your mission and is not ganged with you would be free game. That would still allow people to salvage on regular space, but would make them think twice when it came to salvaging somone else's mission. Especially since most of those guys don't even bother to fit weapons on their ships. "We were once so close to heaven; Peter came out and gave us medals, declaring us the nicest of the damned."
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.01.28 20:52:00 - [80] Well i'd do the same red flashy flag thing for salvaging wrecks as for looting wrecks.

Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.01.28 22:22:00 - [81] Originally by: Checkis Khan Why can he salvage my wrecks, but not loot them? They're your wrecks, but the salvage does not exist until someone puts a salvage module on it. This is the same way mining works. No ore exists until someone puts a miner module on the asteroid, and no salvage exists until someone puts a salvage module on the wreck. Quote: Why can I not pick up your research BPO/manyfacturing outpur from a lab? Because it's in a lab. Quote: Why is it not "my" mission area, when I am commisioned by Caldari Navy to solve a problem there? Because this is a multiplayer game where player-player interaction is encouraged and part of the point. Quote: Someone had a great suggestion above : A message saying "Caldari Navy has not granted you access to this area" Most deadspace areas belong to a pirate faction opposed to the faction Navies. It makes no sense that the Caldari Navy controls access to Guristas deadspace gates, or they'd just lock the pirates out and you'd have no mission at all. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.01.28 22:29:00 - [82] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 28/01/2008 22:29:04 Originally by: Tribunal Bottom feeders Consider it the EvE wellfare systems. Clearly these people can not cope without being parasites, or the only way they can make it through a day is by making someone else upset. Shame that people are that needy for attention. 99% of the player base doesn't post on forums. That makes you way more needy for attention that most players. Pot, meet kettle, you two have a lot in common. I mean, there is no other reason for your non-constructive post but to have your ME ME ME moment. You didn't add anything new, insightful, or even interesting to the discussion. It's all about you, complaining that others got the spotlight. Physician, heal thyself. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Roche Pso Gallente Deltole Research Labs	Posted - 2008.01.29 00:18:00 - [83] FWIW I started ninja salvaging this weekend. Why? Because my attention was drawn to it by all the mission whiners - if they didnt complain so much I would never have thought of doing it When i found a mission partly completed I got a bit greedy and lost my ship to an npc the missioner hadnt killed. When i returned to get my can the missioner was there again and, presumably to annoy me, he popped my wreck! Concord showed up and I ended up without my own stuff, but with a hold full of his T2 mods LOLZ
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.01.29 00:51:00 - [84] The absolute best thing is when you warp in, and some newb with a faction-fitted GTCNR is sitting at the warp-in running his True Sansha Smartbomb. I got the TS smarty, two DG invulns, 3 DG cruise launchers and a DG EM hardener off his wreck. Yes, probing mission runners can be very, very worthwhile, even if you don't salvage a thing. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Kirial Avo The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.29 04:23:00 - [85] thats sucks I'm starting to get in to missions and I would like to feel save in there and know no one is taking my stuff http://i30.tinypic.com/34ormlv.jpg
Calistai Huranu Sick Cruel and Unusual Methods	Posted - 2008.01.29 15:21:00 - [86] Originally by: Kirial Avo thats sucks I'm starting to get in to missions and I would like to feel save in there and know no one is taking my stuff Rofl, no mission is safe, and you honestly think those wrecks are yours alone to salvage, priceless! Tho what makes this post all the more amusing is that your in RoadKill, you have access to the tedium and high profit of ratting in 0.0 space, and your moaning about legitamate salvagers probing you out in high sec.... That and shouldn't you be doing your bit for the alliance in 0.0??
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.29 15:34:00 - [87] Edited by: Ulstan on 29/01/2008 15:35:04 Quote: The amount of whining generated by people loosing out on a mil or two worth of salvaging materials once every couple of weeks is way out of proportion This is so true. And I'm a mission runner. Quote: The problem lies in that, unbeknownst to me, they were in the first room looting and salvaging my wrecks while I was in the 2nd and 3rd rooms of the mission killing the rest of the rats. By the time I finished up the mission and returned in my salvager, all of the battleships had already been looted and salvaged, with only frigate wrecks left over. I understand salvaging a mission after it's over and been left. That should be fair game. But to allow someone to enter a mission while its still going on and take the items that dropped from rats that I killed is ludicrous. I did not even get a chance to loot/salvage my own wrecks. Yes, you did have a chance to salvage the wrecks. You chose to pass up that chance and move on to the next room of the mission. Moreover because of the way scanning works, I don't think it's even possible to find a mission once it's been abandoned, because you can't find and warp to wrecks. Quote: Or maybe a message when someone loots something that's "your" kill. Does anything show up in your kill rights tab? Quote: Well i'd do the same red flashy flag thing for salvaging wrecks as for looting wrecks. You're not looting wrecks, you're looting cargo cans. Wrecks don't belong to you at all, any more than asteroids do. Quote: Why can he salvage my wrecks, but not loot them? The wrecks aren't yours. The loot is. It's just like how a guy can come up and mine an asteroid you are already mining, but can't steal your jettisoned can. You haven't done any work to make salvage from the wreck, so it's fair game. Your reward for killing the NPC is the loot + bounty. The wreck is left over for scavengers. Your reward for mining the wreck is salvage. Two separate actions. Quote: thats sucks I'm starting to get in to missions and I would like to feel save in there and know no one is taking my stuff You're only safe in hi sec, and they're not taking your stuff. They're scavenging salvage that doesn't belong to you. Seriously, you all need to read more science fiction and/or 18th century salvage rules. Salvaging stuff that isn't yours is an ENTIRE PROFESSION.
Goyda Veni Vidi Vici. Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2008.01.29 16:51:00 - [88] Salvaging is a profession, anyone ever see an OLD TV show called Sanford and Son ? Check out the link below and read the sign in the image. :) Check out the image from the TV show :) Well if you were in lowsec, you'd get someone intrude you mission, then shoot you out of the sky, pod you if possible, then kill the rest of the rats and THEN, salvage. It would not be ninja. Or maybe that's just what I do. To me, this is simply a whine. Life is unfair deal with it. -- Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the drug store, but that's just peanuts to space. --
Zao Jin	Posted - 2008.02.07 02:27:00 - [89] Originally by: Checkis Khan I am sorry, but I fail to see what the location has to do with the point here. This issue exists anywhere in Empire Space. And for useless answers like "leave Motsu", please consider using "Quit EVE" - it's more effective. It's really not the point. Actually, this issue is primary at Caldari Navy Mission Hubs, Motsu in particular. I operate for an entirely different Caldari Corp, and the activity you're talking about has occurred in my presence twice since salvaging entered the game. Both times, I shot the wrecks down. Oddly, ninja salvagers quit following me around. Rather than whine to the devs every time something happens you don't like, fix the problem yourself. Move out of "thiefhub motsu" and dissuade your enemies.
Sil Phylis	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:52:00 - [90] Edited by: Sil Phylis on 07/02/2008 14:54:37 Just thinking aloud here but is it not an easy way to prevent lag ? The more wreck there is the heavier the load for the server. Because some wreck don't have any loot making them disappeared (salvage) especially in system where there is already a load of player running missions should help. I'm not saying that salvager are saving us from lag obviously but I'm sure it does help. My own way to prevent lag is to make roides disappear and ATM it work fine :)



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