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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Checkis Khan
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Posted - 2008.01.11 18:58:00 -
[1]
Dear Sirs,
I urge you to hear me out, and try to understand this issue, and I request you to respond with suggestions, opinions, and possible solutions.
The last period I have been doing level 4 missions in Motsu, a new phenomenon has started. With all the changes to scanners and so forth, it is now possible for people to scan your location, approach your location, and enter mission areas. This means, while I am tanking all the rats on the stage, and killing away, some lowlife player enters the mission area, and start salvaging the wrecks. I am in the process of collecting salvage myself, for mods that I need. The problem is not in itself that they so salvage, but the issue is that I am not given a fair chance to do anything about it. CONCORD are unrealistically fast to respond if I do anything about it (which is good, in order to keep the Empire space usable for all non-pvp'ers) Should it then not also be unrealistically impossible for non-gang-members to enter mission areas?
I don't believe it makes sense that ore-thieving, wreck-ninjaing, and so forth should be possible at no risk. I understand that will be complications in solving this issue, as wrecks would be lying around till next DT, which is not practical either.
I understand that the whole EVE universe is unsharded, which is pretty cool. However, would it not be possible to shard/instancing the missions? I think that would a) protect the missioneers rewards from lowlives and b) perhaps remove the local's population's lag from the missions themselves. Perhaps even also make it possible for CCP to balance load, by dedicating servers for missions only, and thus not affect the strain on the system as a whole.
How about giving someome temporary green lights for whatever, e.g. set someone as "green" for looting, salvaging, entering missions, take ore, etc. This could have a default duration till next DT, but even have a drop-down option of 1h, 2h, 4h, 8h, etc (just as the orbit-menu) This would be easy to manage, by rightclicking the character and choose "Green Light"...
I am not sure how to solve the whole "abandoned wrecks" issue, since it would make sense for someone to "clean up" systems, as we usually do in our 0.0-systems. Perhaps, rightclick yourself and choose "release ownerships" which would clear all loot/cans/wrecks/whatever of your tag/ownership in the current system, constellation, region, universe (drop-down option)
Obviously, secure cans and other possessions (POS'es) would not be affected, and perhaps another reason to use those.
Anyone have some ideas? Comments?
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Jack Freely
Caldari Trading Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.11 19:18:00 -
[2]
I will help you
Before you could use the scanner to find wreaks and so it was easier to do in lower space. Now you can't, so people use the probes to find ships and drones and warp in on the target.
The salvage doesn't belong to anyone so its not stealing so Concord won't help
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Checkis Khan
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Posted - 2008.01.11 19:29:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Checkis Khan on 11/01/2008 19:33:52 Thanks for the explanation.
Regarding the comment that the wrecks don't belong to anyone... Are you ok with that?
What if it was the same for research jobs, manufacturing jobs, when using public facilities, such as on a NPC station. Imagine that once a job is complete, it is just waiting for someone to pick it up, to free the installation for another job.
Why is the loot mine, and not the wreck? is it ok to pull bricks off your house, while it is not ok to go in and take your tv?
The faction asks me to enter an area and do a job, I am authorized to operate in that area. Is the ninja authorized? If not, shouldn't CONCORD interact here then? (Since this would then classify as an issue of national security, confidentiality, espionage, etc)
I don't understand this.
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Doctor Grugon
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Posted - 2008.01.11 19:47:00 -
[4]
I also think it would be great to be able to select an item and from the menu select 'abandon', thereby releasing ownership. or maybe a setting in the character screen that would set an ownership time limit like the above mentioned, 1h,2h,3h...etc.
If wrecks do not have ownership, then why are they yellow if I did not destroy the ship? This would indicate that I do not have ownership, so I should not be able to salvage it, but it cam be. The cargo still has ownership however. A possible solution would be to allow the 'owner' of an item, including the cargo in a jetcan to 'abandon' it, however this may allow trading to trial accounts, bout could be worked around. It may be that all objects require an owner and there is no 'public' owner that all can access freely. This would make this interesting to change, but not too difficult I would imagine. Also a setting that would automatically abandon wrecks, but not its cargo, if any, would make it easier for those players who don't care to salvage.
As for securing missions space, A.K.A. DEADSPACE. I would think that if your in a mission specific region then you should not be able to be located by scanner or agent. this would allow the current mechanics to work, so that friends ganged or not could still join you, but others would not be able to follow.
No, profile signature.... Doc. Grugon
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Jack Freely
Caldari Trading Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.11 19:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Checkis Khan Edited by: Checkis Khan on 11/01/2008 19:33:52 Thanks for the explanation.
Regarding the comment that the wrecks don't belong to anyone... Are you ok with that?
I have no problem with you or anyone else salvaging, just don't be shocked if I warp out and let you take aggro
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Doctor Grugon
Caldari iSecure Laboratories Inc.
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Posted - 2008.01.11 20:08:00 -
[6]
I'm not talking about taking the cargo, just salvaging the wreck, which currently has no ownership.
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Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar The Smithzonian Institute
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Posted - 2008.01.11 20:09:00 -
[7]
Should you be able to shoot someone salvaging wrecks in your mission in high sec? No. Reason being, its high sec, and wrecks belong to no one, even in missions. Why would CCP want to allow you to shoot someone for doing something legal? Its high security, and that means free for all with no hostility. Go to low sec if you want to pew pew.
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Altaree
Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2008.01.11 20:12:00 -
[8]
It's real easy... LEAVE MOTSU!!!!
There is at least one corporations flying out of that system dedicated to harvesting loot from the farmers there. You are just collateral damage. There are some nice q16-19 out there....
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Checkis Khan
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Posted - 2008.01.11 20:28:00 -
[9]
Leave Motsu? That's not the solution, neither is it what I am asking about, a quite lame answer too. The most efficient thing would be leaving the game, but that's not quite the point.
A poster further up has a point. The wreck is yellow to them, meaning they cannot loot it. So, why can they salvage it?
Also, this is not a question about pew-pew, it is a question about whether it is right to be able to enter someone else's mission area, and salvage their wrecks, without CONCORD interfering, while they cannot loot the wrecks.
I definitely see it as a flaw in the mechanics somewhere, most likely due to keeping server load down, to some extent. If the loot is off limits, for another player, why isn't the wreck? Cans disappear after a certain time limit, so do wrecks, so is it really to save server load? I doubt it.
I was seeking constructive suggestions to solve this issue. (Yes, it is an issue - if not, test it with my research/labs example above)
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.01.11 20:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Checkis Khan Leave Motsu? That's not the solution, neither is it what I am asking about, a quite lame answer too. The most efficient thing would be leaving the game, but that's not quite the point.
In fact, it is the solution. The devs aren't going to help you in this case, because you can help yourself. By following the above suggestion, you will drastically reduce the occurrence of the type of activity you're being bothered by.
And to be frank, instancing is never going to happen so there's no point in discussing it in the first place.
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Checkis Khan
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Posted - 2008.01.11 20:49:00 -
[11]
I am sorry, but I fail to see what the location has to do with the point here. This issue exists anywhere in Empire Space.
And for useless answers like "leave Motsu", please consider using "Quit EVE" - it's more effective. It's really not the point.
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Checkis Khan
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Posted - 2008.01.11 20:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
And to be frank, instancing is never going to happen so there's no point in discussing it in the first place.
Is this not why things often don't happen - for dismissing the question without looking into it? I would be interested in knowing why it would not happen, or, what it would take to make it happen. Any pro's? Any con's? Is it costly? Time consuming? against the dev's politics of being unsharded? Too effective against ninjas and exploiters? Is it to have me ask the question?
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Jessamine
Sanair Industries Inc
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Posted - 2008.01.11 21:12:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jessamine on 11/01/2008 21:12:31
Originally by: Checkis Khan
This issue exists anywhere in Empire Space.
Umm, while it can happen anywhere in Empire. It doesn't. It happens in Motsu, Dodixie, Saila, Aramachi etc. You know why? Because everyone is in the damn system so they know there will be plenty of targets. There are agents that give better LP than the above systems that are still hi-sec and relatively unpopulated.
Leaving Motsu is a perfectly valid answer, I wouldn't be surprised if they have it setup this way to encourage people to, and to quote some 4chan, GTFO.
Edit: And yes, instancing defeats the purpose of a single shard completely. Anyone can go anywhere in EVE, and the only way they get stopped is with guns. Love it.
inEvE Stats |
Blue Wraith
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Posted - 2008.01.11 21:15:00 -
[14]
I think that this is a problem that CCP should address. It should really be remedied by locking the gate. Let them scan me all they want, but when they get to the gate, it should say: Sorry, Caldari Navy has not given you permission to enter.
In the mean time, here's what I would do:
When you see someone salvaging your wrecks, lock the closest wreck to them and shoot it one time, destroying it. You will have wasted a wreck, but they will have wasted time. Just keep doing this until they leave. Eventually, they should realize salvage-thieving your wrecks is a waste of time and leave you alone.
I left my last mish system because of the salvage-thieving problem, combined with the proliferation of scammers in busy systems. I guess CCP wants to bring out the worst in people in Eve, as that's what their game mechanics encourage.
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.01.11 21:16:00 -
[15]
(CCP - Please Comment) pretty much guarantees they won't comment.
Furthermore, I've been playing for almost two years, missioning fairly regularly the entire time. I have never had a mission invaded.
Get out of the hubs, there are alternatives, even if you have to sacrifice a little.
I have an L4 Q20 Amarr kill agent in a dead end system. I get great cash and LP, hardly have to leave system. There's an average of 8 people in local. The only downside is the market isn't great, but a once monthly trip to sell the loot in Amarr (only a few jumps away.)
Get out of the hubs. ----------------
Originally by: "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.11 21:24:00 -
[16]
CCP has already commented on it. Here is a quote from PrismX:
Quote:
If we end up having to chose between the salvagers right to salvage whatever he finds and the mission runners right to salvage his own loot without competition and getting rights to pwn empire salvagers, we'd probably go for the former.
You can read the thread HERE
Simply, Salvaging is a mini-profession, it is not a mission runner's entitlement program.
If you have problems with people salvaging your junk laying around move to a less populated system.
Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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Checkis Khan
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Posted - 2008.01.11 21:54:00 -
[17]
Thank you for refering to the other post, that made me happy.
It appears to me that CCP is aware that this is a problem, and not working as intended, and as he said in his several answers, they are looking into the problems, and will work on solving it.
But neither he, or anyone else can answer my original questions :
Why can he salvage my wrecks, but not loot them? Why can I not pick up your research BPO/manyfacturing outpur from a lab? Why is it not "my" mission area, when I am commisioned by Caldari Navy to solve a problem there?
Someone had a great suggestion above : A message saying "Caldari Navy has not granted you access to this area"
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.01.11 22:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Checkis Khan +++ Leave Motsu ???
Sorry, just made me laugh. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.01.11 22:14:00 -
[19]
Quote: Why can he salvage my wrecks, but not loot them?
Same reason you can pick up trash off the street but not groceries from someones cart.
Anyway, either salvage them yourself as you run the mission, or blow them up as he tries to get to them so he can't salvage them either.
Then spend the time you would normally have spent salvaging the wrecks to run another mission instead.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.01.11 22:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Checkis Khan
Why can he salvage my wrecks, but not loot them? Why can I not pick up your research BPO/manyfacturing outpur from a lab? Why is it not "my" mission area, when I am commisioned by Caldari Navy to solve a problem there?
Personally, I'm not going to go through this again. But see this thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=631933
We expect a full report on your findings in 6 months time. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
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Apollo487
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Posted - 2008.01.11 22:24:00 -
[21]
I'm personally a fan of warping out and letting them take agro.
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JemaTov
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Posted - 2008.01.11 22:45:00 -
[22]
Kill everything and then go back with a thrasher with 3 salvagers and 3 tractor beams on to collect loot and salvage, you can fit 2 x T2 cargo expanders on it.
and that sir is job done!
thankyou and goodnight
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Jack Freely
Caldari Trading Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.11 22:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Apollo487 I'm personally a fan of warping out and letting them take agro.
And it works great for those destroyer salvage ships
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.01.11 22:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Checkis Khan Edited by: Checkis Khan on 11/01/2008 19:33:52 The faction asks me to enter an area and do a job, I am authorized to operate in that area. Is the ninja authorized? If not, shouldn't CONCORD interact here then? (Since this would then classify as an issue of national security, confidentiality, espionage, etc)
I think right there you touch on the ultimate solution here.
For most missions, part of the description is 'kill everyone there'. If another player warps into the zone of fire, they SHOULD be a fair target. Otherwise the mission descriptions are bugged.
Someday I plan to test this logic via petition ^_^
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notaway
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.01.12 00:51:00 -
[25]
THere is another thread on this matter and a person there pointed to RL international salvage rights--a ship is incapacitated and apparently under the law the hulk belongs to the party that salvages it but the contents belong to the original owners etc. If u don't want to salvage a wreck immediately and some1 else is present while u r shooting rats, then I concur with the other posters who said--warp out and let the salvager take the aggro. If they are waiting until u complete, then u can also use a separate faster ship to salvage or destroy the wrecks as others suggested. OR have a friend or corp member salvage the wrecks for you. Lots of options.
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Jack Freely
Caldari Trading Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.12 04:35:00 -
[26]
Just wanted to let you know that I took it upon myself today to go and salvage peoples missions because of your post.
Hope to see you soon
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Kilda Shepp
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.01.12 05:04:00 -
[27]
You can all hate me because I do this myself. I probe out mission runners, warp in, and start salvaging. If you leave the mission I just get in my Nighthawk and come back tank the whole room while I salvage all your wreaks. Then I start to kill your rats, take the bounty, the look and the salvage.
What I can't do is take your mission objective without getting your agro. I also can't attack your wreaks, or you, or take any loot.
Why do I do this? Because it's allowable in the game. If you want to whine about this, you also have to whine about suicide ganking haulers in highsec.
1) You also have to whine about you killing rats at belts and someone comes along and insta-pop them before you. 2) You also have to whine about people using Battleships to steal ORE, ICE from cans. 3) You also have to whine about people baiting newbies with T2 stuff outside newbie stations. 4) You also have to whine about... never mind the list goes on.
This game has so many little "niches" designed to make your life just a little more difficult, this is no different. I'll tell you a little story.
When Exploration came in I wanted to explore sites get ISK for doing this is sweet, fun (IMHO) and the reward is.... pathetic and long. You can spend HOURS, DAYS probing out the odd exploration site. I spend a week, dropped over 200 multi-spec probes in 0.0 and found.. 3 sites.
With my uber scanning skills one day I probed out my home system. Over a week in the same system guess what I found. 25 Ogre II 170 Ogre I 57 Hammerhead II 284 Hammerhead I almost 1000 assorted Light drones T1 and T2 About 100 support and sentry drones
I hit the jack pot it took a week to collect all of those, and I am POSITIVE CCP really likes the fact 2000 odd records are not being held up in the database by drones, any more.
I knew people left salvage but I had no idea how much they left. My road to becoming a "lowlife" was very specific, on the hunt for endless supply of drone I fit salvages because most drones where left in a field of wreaks.
I wasn't the only one doing this, more people started to do this, now it's common place. When I probe a system I'm actually in hunt for abandoned T2 drones, but that doesn't stop me going and making some salvage alone the way.
Nerf it if you want it's already been nerfed quiet a bit, it took me 2 months to get good skills in this and I for one say - If you don't like people salvaging your wreaks, kill the wreaks.
Keep this in the back of your mind however - A single probe will pick up on average 10 plexs in a mission hub. You killing your wreaks means there are 9 others doing exactly the same thing.
So why did I become a ***** with probe skills? I wanted to explore, see the untapped part of EVE, when I spend 2 months getting all the skill and support skills get this only to be kicked in the face by CCP and it's lack of exploration I looked for alternatives.
You want to stop people salvaging - Instead of whining for a nerf, why don't you whine for a BUFF that will have ZERO effect to you but solve your problem. Make exploration in highsec worth while and you'll see mission intrusions drop drastically.
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Kilda Shepp
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.01.12 05:17:00 -
[28]
To accommodate your whiny nature here is the solution. Allow wreaks to be scanned out by probes. But only while they are NOT in a Plex/room/dungeon.
Done. Problem solved.
If you want to salvage your own wreaks without others, Do NOT complete the mission. YES I said DO NOT complete the mission. If rats re-spawn you have to deal with that.
The second those wreaks are out of the plex. They can be scanned down, and they are free game to all involved.
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Jack Freely
Caldari Trading Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.12 05:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kilda Shepp To accommodate your whiny nature here is the solution. Allow wreaks to be scanned out by probes. But only while they are NOT in a Plex/room/dungeon.
Done. Problem solved.
If you want to salvage your own wreaks without others, Do NOT complete the mission. YES I said DO NOT complete the mission. If rats re-spawn you have to deal with that.
The second those wreaks are out of the plex. They can be scanned down, and they are free game to all involved.
I like this as right now there is no way to find wreaks that I know of
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Objulen
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Posted - 2008.01.12 06:37:00 -
[30]
That's a bit of a discrepancy. You can't loot someone's wreck, but you can salvage it?
The solution is simple: you get kill rights when someone steals your loot. Just give the owner of the wreck kill rights when someone not in their fleet and/or corp salvages it. Then you can blow up people who filch your salvage.
Though, ATM, if the same salvager is a terminal problem, there's always war-decking, or hiring a merc corp to do it for you.
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SencneS
Amarr Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.12 07:38:00 -
[31]
Edited by: SencneS on 12/01/2008 07:40:00 I'll tell you why it's not a good idea to give agro just because someone salvages your wreak...
The second you open fire on them, they can shoot back. I would bet ISK that if you opened that door you'd have pirates probe you out in missions just to salvage wreaks in the hope you will shoot at them. See, it's a win win for them, either you engage them in PVP while you're tanking the SPAWN, and you die. Or You ignore them and they get salvage. Sounds like a GREAT deal for the pirate.
So sure give the mission runners the option, it'll just mean more CNR Wreaks to salvage.
Amarr for Life |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.01.12 11:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: SencneS Edited by: SencneS on 12/01/2008 07:40:00 I'll tell you why it's not a good idea to give agro just because someone salvages your wreak...
The second you open fire on them, they can shoot back. I would bet ISK that if you opened that door you'd have pirates probe you out in missions just to salvage wreaks in the hope you will shoot at them. See, it's a win win for them, either you engage them in PVP while you're tanking the SPAWN, and you die. Or You ignore them and they get salvage. Sounds like a GREAT deal for the pirate.
So sure give the mission runners the option, it'll just mean more CNR Wreaks to salvage.
I still can't understand how this would make more people steal salvage. If anyone wants to get flagged they can already do so at anytime by taking loot from the wrecks. What is the difference?
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Layla Ashley
Amarr Children of Avalon Avateas Blessed
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Posted - 2008.01.12 12:52:00 -
[33]
i have never been salvage scanned in any mission. you need the salvage? did it ever cross your mind that you can do missions with other agents, in systems where not 10000 ppl are waiting just to scan you down?
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.01.12 14:34:00 -
[34]
Originally by: SencneS Edited by: SencneS on 12/01/2008 07:40:00 I'll tell you why it's not a good idea to give agro just because someone salvages your wreak...
The second you open fire on them, they can shoot back. I would bet ISK that if you opened that door you'd have pirates probe you out in missions just to salvage wreaks in the hope you will shoot at them. See, it's a win win for them, either you engage them in PVP while you're tanking the SPAWN, and you die. Or You ignore them and they get salvage. Sounds like a GREAT deal for the pirate.
So sure give the mission runners the option, it'll just mean more CNR Wreaks to salvage.
This is EXACTLY what happened when they made jet cans flaggable. Trust me, 9/10 times you're fit for PVE, 10/10 times they're fit to kill you.
Careful what you ask for. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Matthew Banker
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Posted - 2008.01.12 16:12:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Checkis Khan Why can he salvage my wrecks, but not loot them?
The work you put in to blow up the npc's is already remunerated to you through the bounty on the NPC and the loot drop, both of which are flagged as your property. The creation of the wreck is a side-effect of that work, not part of the remuneration for it. Therefore it is flagged as public property.
Originally by: Checkis Khan Why can I not pick up your research BPO/manyfacturing outpur from a lab?
Because the output of that job is the remuneration for doing that work, not a side-effect of it.
Originally by: Checkis Khan Why is it not "my" mission area, when I am commisioned by Caldari Navy to solve a problem there?
Surely the fact that caldari navy have needed to send you in there to kill a load of rats indicates that caldari navy do not have control over that bit of space to begin with? What you suggest would imply that the NPC corporations deliberately let npc pirates into their space for no other reason than to pay you to shoot them. It would make no sense within the eve universe.
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SencneS
Amarr Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.12 16:40:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: SencneS Edited by: SencneS on 12/01/2008 07:40:00 I'll tell you why it's not a good idea to give agro just because someone salvages your wreak...
The second you open fire on them, they can shoot back. I would bet ISK that if you opened that door you'd have pirates probe you out in missions just to salvage wreaks in the hope you will shoot at them. See, it's a win win for them, either you engage them in PVP while you're tanking the SPAWN, and you die. Or You ignore them and they get salvage. Sounds like a GREAT deal for the pirate.
So sure give the mission runners the option, it'll just mean more CNR Wreaks to salvage.
I still can't understand how this would make more people steal salvage. If anyone wants to get flagged they can already do so at anytime by taking loot from the wrecks. What is the difference?
The difference is, flagging loot has been around for years, the second they announce that you'll now get flagged for salvage this is something new, something to try. Most pirates already have scan ability to scan down low sec mission runners.
Don't underestimate pirates, these are the same people that will deliberately kill a hauler in high-sec, and be concorded losing their 100mil worth of battleship for the CHANCE the expensive item in the haulers hull will NOT get destroyed.
Amarr for Life |
MenanceWhite
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.01.12 18:20:00 -
[37]
Edited by: MenanceWhite on 12/01/2008 18:21:49 Ship wrecks belongs to noone, or actually more to the person who owned the ship before it was destroyed so anyone is free to salvage it.
Probing up missionrunners is allowed, just as gatecamping is allowed. You did'nt think that those probes used or the time that was spent probing you were completely free, did you? ---
Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Commander OTG
Caldari Logistic Exposium Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.12 18:50:00 -
[38]
I believe I am one of the salvagers that is referred to in this post. I specifically work the areas in and around Motsu as well as a couple other hubs.
I have posted previously on this topic with some available solutions/suggestions to avoid unwanted salvaging in your missions.
I have made salvaging my primary task in game and have focused all my skills on it for several months. I am maxxed out on all skills pertaining to probing, hacking, archeology..ect..i have spent 100's of millions on implants to perfect this job.
I have treated the mission runners with respect and have only followed into missions for salvage AFTER they have left the mission.
I have on occassion relinquished all that I have salvaged to a person that returned to the site with a salvager ship...
For those interested, my salvaging percentage is maxxed out as well...allowing me to salvage your wrecks pretty much guarantees a higher yield then you would get on your own. If you would like me to salvage your missions and split the proceeds with you I am more then willing. This saves you time, allows you to start another mission and still get roughly the same salage count you would have by doing it yourself....drop me a line ingame.
EXECUTIVE OFFICER
"Finder of SafeSpots-Killer of Pods" |
Veryez
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Posted - 2008.01.12 19:43:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Checkis Khan
It appears to me that CCP is aware that this is a problem, and not working as intended, and as he said in his several answers, they are looking into the problems, and will work on solving it.
But neither he, or anyone else can answer my original questions :
Why can he salvage my wrecks, but not loot them? Why can I not pick up your research BPO/manyfacturing outpur from a lab? Why is it not "my" mission area, when I am commisioned by Caldari Navy to solve a problem there?
Perhaps a bit of history would help. I trained and started salvaging the day the skill was released. When the skill was released, you had to loot the wreck first before you could salvage it, additionally you could not tell which wrecks you had looted due to a graphics bug, salvaging was slow and people complained. The graphics bug was fixed, but people still complained about having to loot every wreck. So CCP relented and allowed people to salvage wrecks before looting them, allowing faster looting but adding the problem you have now.
As CCP thinking this is a problem, you need to realize that CCP has known about this for a while and done nothing about it. One can easily conculde they don't see this as a problem. Besides what do you think they will do? Shard missions - doubtful they have long stated they are against that. Concord response - no, they want conflict in their game. Criminal flagging - possible, but it will have no real impact, people still jump in and loot missions anyway. Prevent people jumping into missions - no, this is what they want.
Bottom line adapt and ignore it, or move to a quieter system. Truthfully, as you get more experienced running missions, you'll quickly realize it isn't worth your time looting and salvaging. You mission in Motsu for the LP's and payouts (as you stated), not for salvage which is the same as any other system. In the time I loot/salvage, I can easily run one to two more missions - earning far more money in that same time. Voice your frustrations on these forums if it makes you feel better, but step back and try to see it from CCP's perspective. They don't want "safe, non-PVP zones", EVE's charm is it's brutal, unrelenting nature (much like space itself).
Lastly I do not ninja-salvage other people's missions. I can't be bothered wasting my time. I have salvaged other's people's wrecks in belts or complexes since I occasionally look for certain types of salvage, but I always ask in local if it's ok first.
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Tribunal
FIRMA
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Posted - 2008.01.12 20:33:00 -
[40]
Bottom feeders
Consider it the EvE wellfare systems. Clearly these people can not cope without being parasites, or the only way they can make it through a day is by making someone else upset. Shame that people are that needy for attention. I just ignore them unless they loot something: at which point I just gank them and loot my salvage plus their mods.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." |
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Jack Freely
Caldari Trading Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.12 20:58:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tribunal Bottom feeders
Consider it the EvE wellfare systems. Clearly these people can not cope without being parasites, or the only way they can make it through a day is by making someone else upset.
Wow name calling and then mocking, are you sure you aren't the bottom feeder?
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Tribunal
FIRMA
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Posted - 2008.01.12 21:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jack Freely
Wow name calling and then mocking, are you sure you aren't the bottom feeder?
If that thought helps you cope with being what you are then by all means embrace it. Got another handout wreck for you!
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.01.13 04:07:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Tribunal Bottom feeders
Consider it the EvE wellfare systems. Clearly these people can not cope without being parasites, or the only way they can make it through a day is by making someone else upset. Shame that people are that needy for attention. I just ignore them unless they loot something: at which point I just gank them and loot my salvage plus their mods.
It's funny that you use the words "welfare" and "parasites", as from a certain standpoint this seems not to describe people salvaging as their profession quite as well as it does those demanding a new entitlement do salvage as well as all of their other rewards. Which makes the following quote ironic...
Quote: If that thought helps you cope with being what you are then by all means embrace it. Got another handout wreck for you!
So who is actually asking for a handout here? Mission runner, heal thyself. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Tribunal
FIRMA
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Posted - 2008.01.13 04:27:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Tribunal on 13/01/2008 04:33:43
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
It's funny that you use the words "welfare" and "parasites", as from a certain standpoint this seems not to describe people salvaging as their profession quite as well as it does those demanding a new entitlement do salvage as well as all of their other rewards. Which makes the following quote ironic...
Do you know what a parasite is? It is an organism that lives off another while giving the host nothing in return. If you are salvaging a mission runner's wrecks then you are living off of the mission runner's work and returning nothing. If I let you have something that is a product of my hardwork then you are living off of my handouts.
Quote: So who is actually asking for a handout here? Mission runner, heal thyself.
I am "healing" myself every night by leaving salvage for the needy. It brings me a sense of joy to help those that struggle on the bottom of the food chain.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." |
Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.01.13 07:26:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Lance Fighter on 13/01/2008 07:26:57 actually i think a proper parasite takes away from its host.... while it does not give anything in return, it feeds off the host somehow.
Anyway, I personally have no comment - most of the time I dont salvage, and if someone wants to take the time and probe me out to salvage the wrecks, let them.
*disclaimer: Nothing i say, do, think, or once have said, done, nor thought about can be held against me* |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.01.13 11:40:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Checkis Khan Why can he salvage my wrecks, but not loot them?
Because that's the rules of the game!
Originally by: Checkis Khan Why can I not pick up your research BPO/manyfacturing outpur from a lab?
Because that's the rules of the game!
Originally by: Checkis Khan Why is it not "my" mission area, when I am commisioned by Caldari Navy to solve a problem there?
Because that's the rules of the game!
---
Generally, your arguments point to you wanting to play EVE in single-player mode. That's never going to happen (devs have said so plenty of times). You'll ALWAYS be able to be interrupted by other players, no matter what you do in space.
Oh, and...... READ MY SIG!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Whineroy
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Posted - 2008.01.13 11:51:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kerfira
Oh, and...... READ MY SIG!
Read your own sig, little hypocrite. Read it again. Read it over and over until you can give a proper answer to how that "cold and harsh"- aspect applies to those salvage "thieves" and tell what kind of real risk the "thief" faces with his actions. That "cold and harsh" is nice and cool, however it has to apply to everyone equally.
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Vaell'or Kurtanz
Sick Cruel and Unusual Methods
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Posted - 2008.01.13 11:56:00 -
[48]
As a salvage reclaimation officer within a currently small salvage corp all there is to say is as said before look at real salvage laws, then come back and whine.
And be thankful we're not taking over your mission.
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Altaree
Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2008.01.13 13:54:00 -
[49]
The devs have stated two very important points towards this discussion: 1) Not owning wrecks is a feature. Live with it. 2) They want people to be able to scan down mission runners. Eve is a PVP game. Every part of the game can have some PVP in it. Sometimes it is just harder to see.
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.01.13 17:02:00 -
[50]
Why don;t you mission runners complain about the people who blitz missions, as they makes them worth less for the rest of us.
Otherwise, get out of Motsu. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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SheriffFruitfly
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.01.13 17:44:00 -
[51]
CCP hates mission runners, and nerfs them. The double-loot-size is also part of this.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.01.13 17:53:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Vaell'or Kurtanz As a salvage reclaimation officer within a currently small salvage corp all there is to say is as said before look at real salvage laws, then come back and whine.
And be thankful we're not taking over your mission.
Who gives a damn about real laws? Seriously. This is EVE Online not Real-Life Online.
If they just made wreck flagging an option, off by default, everyone would be happy. Most people don't salvage and probably wouldn't use it at all. And I personally would love to be able to turn off can flagging because it's dumb.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.01.13 18:10:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tribunal Edited by: Tribunal on 13/01/2008 04:33:43
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
It's funny that you use the words "welfare" and "parasites", as from a certain standpoint this seems not to describe people salvaging as their profession quite as well as it does those demanding a new entitlement do salvage as well as all of their other rewards. Which makes the following quote ironic...
Do you know what a parasite is? It is an organism that lives off another while giving the host nothing in return. If you are salvaging a mission runner's wrecks then you are living off of the mission runner's work and returning nothing. If I let you have something that is a product of my hardwork then you are living off of my handouts.
There are two kinds of "work" here. The first is the one you're so concerned with, doing missions, killing NPCs, accomplishing mission objectives. For that, you receive what you always have, completion rewards, LP, standings, and ownership of loot. Plus in the normal course of things, a lot of bounties injected directly into your wallet.
Salvage is something new, not tied specifically to missions, which requires another stage of "work". The work involves getting to the right place at the right time, and using at the minimum a salvaging module and your salvaging skill on a wreck. Whoever does so, produces, extracts, and gets legal ownership the salvage.
You have no more special right to salvage you haven't extracted, either in terms of the game mechanics or in additional work you've done to earn it, than you do the bounties on mission NPCs that somebody else kills, or the minerals in mission asteroids that somebody else mines.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
SencneS
Amarr Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.13 19:38:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske You have no more special right to salvage you haven't extracted, either in terms of the game mechanics or in additional work you've done to earn it.
This right here is a great argument. The salvage is not "there" until you do something to the wreak. Just like the loot in the wreak. How did you get that loot? You killed the ship. So the loot belongs to you. The salvage is not there until you perform an action on the wreak. In this case "salvage the wreak" when it turns into Rig Components then it belongs to the person who actually did the salvage work.
We all know the same wreak salvaged by different people will produce more or less and possibly different components. This means someone with top salvage skills and the prospector implants etc will get more salvage then someone how just has Salvaging LVL 1.
So you killed the active ship and turned it into a wreak, great you have been rewarded for your actions. You got a bounty and the loot. It is a wreak and will always be a wreak until an action is performed on it. Whoever does that action to the wreak has 100% right to what salvage it has.
Everything in EVE is exactly this way. Asteroids are worth nothing to anyone until you do something to it, mine it. NCPs are worth nothing to anyone until you do something to them, kill them. Wreaks are worth nothing to anyone until you do something to them, salvage it.
Each of these actions has a reward associated with the action you perform on them. Why should wreaks be flaggable when you have already been rewarded TWICE for a single action. One being the BOUNTY, the second being the loot. The wreak only rewards once for an action being performed.
Amarr for Life |
Dr Sharp
Caldari Sick Cruel and Unusual Methods
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Posted - 2008.01.13 19:41:00 -
[55]
It's not fair!
Being the CEO of a recently formed and quite successful salvaging corp. I would just like to say the following.
Why cant I tractor other people wrecks? it would make salvaging other pilots missions so much quicker. I don't mind if it criminal flags me, most of the time we are cleaning up after the mission runner has left and handed the mission in.
The most efficient way of salvaging missions is to book mark them when they are being run then come back later when the mission has been handed in.
Also why cant I scan for wrecks? - wouldn't even need to carebear bother if we could only find all the wrecks that have been left behind. - When I think of all those lonely, unloved, abandon wrecks sitting in the cold, dark void, it upsets me
Carebare mission runners get: Mission Reward ISK LP reward Rat Bounties Rat loot and 9 times out of 10 all the salvage
I fail to see why they are getting so upset?
__________________ SCUM Lord |
Jack Freely
Caldari Trading Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.13 20:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Dr Sharp Also why cant I scan for wrecks? - wouldn't even need to carebear bother if we could only find all the wrecks that have been left behind. - When I think of all those lonely, unloved, abandon wrecks sitting in the cold, dark void, it upsets me
I wonder how much lag there is with all these wreaks with loot sitting in them in a single system. The wreaks stay for a few hours so that has to take up a lot of space on the servers.
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Manipulator
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.01.14 02:16:00 -
[57]
They already made it harder to find you since wrecks don't show anymore, besides THEY DON'T BELONG TO ANYONE. It's floating space junk, salvaging is a profession. See my sig.
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Atlanton Marcus
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.01.14 02:22:00 -
[58]
Think of wrecks as asteroids that appear when you destroy a ship.
Problem solved.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.01.14 04:09:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Atlanton Marcus Think of wrecks as asteroids that appear when you destroy a ship.
Problem solved.
Kind of like loot?
Face it, players create wrecks. They don't create asteroids, or NPCs. So you can't really use that analogy when it comes to ownership. The wrecks are there only because someone else made an effort to create it.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.01.14 16:40:00 -
[60]
Salvaging is a profession, and the 'bottom feeder scavengers/salvagers' archetype is a very common one in scifi. I don't understand why people get so upset over it...
Salvage doesn't belong to anyone. You would think this would be obvious from the term 'salvage'. Look up the history of nautical salvage rights if you're interested.
You can do a couple different things
a) Don't mission in hotspots where there are lots of salvagers waiting in the wings b) Salvage as you go, using a maurader or something c) Get a second character/alt/friend to salvage as you go d) Blow up your wrecks when the intruder salvager shows up e) If you were going to come back and salvage in a dedicated salvaging ships, just skip the salvaging and run another mission instead
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Scel Eratus
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Posted - 2008.01.14 17:26:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Scel Eratus on 14/01/2008 17:32:03 Salvage rights to an abandoned vessel are given to the first person to claim the vessel and have the means to salvage it. Unfortunately for missioners, this means that if someone probes out your mission while you are running it, they can claim the salvage there.
Edit: And no, players don't gain exclusive salvage rights because they created the wreck. Why? Because they lack the means of salvage. If salvaging is so important to you, fit and flippin salvager instead of an 8th gun, hire a salvager, start an alt, do any of a number of other things than complain on the forums. |
SencneS
Amarr Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.14 17:27:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Atlanton Marcus Think of wrecks as asteroids that appear when you destroy a ship.
Problem solved.
Kind of like loot?
Face it, players create wrecks. They don't create asteroids, or NPCs. So you can't really use that analogy when it comes to ownership. The wrecks are there only because someone else made an effort to create it.
Nice that you skip right over my detailed explanation of exactly what Atlanton Marcus said.
Like Asteroids you need to perform an action on the wreak for it to be of any value. In it's current forum it's worthless. The loot can only be taken by the killer, but the wreak is absolute no value to anyone. It's not until an action is performed on it that it has worth.
Whoever performs that action gets the reward. For killing the ship that makes the wreak you get a reward, the ISK and the loot. You need to perform an action on the wreak to get a reward from that. You're basically saying they no right to perform that action. Well them lets add something to EVE - Asteroid mining rights. File at your local Concord office for mining right to a belt. Anyone found mining in your belt will be flagged for you to kill them!
Amarr for Life |
Shinkage Ryuha
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Posted - 2008.01.14 19:36:00 -
[63]
As a mission runner, I personally do not see the issue with salvagers. I have on occasion made deals with one beneficial for both. If I have an individual salvager then I try to pop the pilot. I wish salvaggers luck in their proffesion.
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William Ortega
Grave Diggers Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.14 21:45:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Shinkage Ryuha As a mission runner, I personally do not see the issue with salvagers. I have on occasion made deals with one beneficial for both. If I have an individual salvager then I try to pop the pilot. I wish salvaggers luck in their proffesion.
Thats the thing. Even in Motsu with a hundred people running missions simultaneously, you will have one or two mission intrusions at any given time. For a given person you will have your salvage "stolen" maybe once every 20-30 missions (not even that but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here).
In all the time I used to run missions (admittedly not in the last couple of months), my mission got broken into ONCE, and I'm flying a domi which is a lot easier to scan down than your regular garden variety raven. The amount of whining generated by people loosing out on a mil or two worth of salvaging materials once every couple of weeks is way out of proportion .
-Willy |
Kalixa Hihro
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Posted - 2008.01.15 05:11:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Kalixa Hihro on 15/01/2008 05:10:46
Originally by: Apollo487 I'm personally a fan of warping out and letting them take agro.
Definitely the solution. /*----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong. |
WardogX
Minmatar Outkasts
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Posted - 2008.01.15 07:27:00 -
[66]
Edited by: WardogX on 15/01/2008 07:33:21
I still am under the philosophy that ccp wants to systematically stop the usage of drones in eve.
Lets look at the facts..
long time ago.. 10 drones .. turned into 5... and lots of drone cargo capacity nerfs
then drone bandwidth (which is a whole new tricky way to work around drone cargo capacity)
then the proposed fighter nerf on carriers and moms (which got shot down harshly.. and i am amazed they revoked the concept)
now drones are the bane of mission runners allowing themselves to be spotted by explorers (also useful in other situations.. to hunt down the drone users)
does it not seem like ccp hates drones... i just cant figure out if ccp thinks they throw pvp/pve game balance out of whack.. or if they think drones are the cause of lag so they want to cut back on that. Either or... year after year.. there intentions are becoming obvious (at least to me)
Just be a pure gun boat and you wont have to deal with this. (pop drones out just to knock out the mission drones and frigs.. and return them to you bay the rest of the time.) you can gun down the rest... less drone fly time means less of a chance of exposure to probes.
PS: another alternative is have an alt account flyin a salvager picking up after yourself as you go.. at least on level 4 missions they are easy enough you can get away with having your attention split in 2 directions without risk of losing your ship.
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VIP Ares
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Posted - 2008.01.15 13:20:00 -
[67]
Edited by: VIP Ares on 15/01/2008 13:21:38
Man I dont wanna be rude, but what you are proposing is totally MAD !
If you add INSTANCES to this game, I am sure hal fof ppl would just quit same moment. While all other stupid games solved all their techincal problems with instancing, EVE was only game to survive in one universe, without any instances where ppl can hide and farm in safety.
Long live EVE, who want instances and safe zones- there are plenty of games which provides such environments.
And btw, calling ppl who search for and salvage your wrecks lowlifes :/ cmon, play the game and have fun with all bad things and good things you may encounter in space. that is what makes this game so special and different then all others on the market.
/cheers
And sorry for dropping in this topic so long after it started and maybe changed topic a bit, but I had to reply to original post.
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Tyrell Foehammer
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Posted - 2008.01.15 13:50:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Tyrell Foehammer on 15/01/2008 13:52:05 Just be glad they're only salvaging and not there to pop you. I hate getting popped when doing a mission.
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Xeronn
Amarr Free Market Enterprizes Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.01.15 16:43:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Xeronn on 15/01/2008 16:46:04 i`m slowly starting to see where privateers and raketeers come from oh dont get me wrong i still hate these guys, i really do (ingame ofcourse , i`d buy them a beer IRL) , carebears hunting down noobs and defensless targets and calling themselves "leeet pirates" .But then again they hate me , i`m the noob turned 0.0 soldier (heh...let them blobs come!!)
But reguardless of my feelings at some given time (privateers poped my BS in empire...you can bet i hate them , i`m only human) , I LOVE EVE , i love the fact that empire wars are posible , i love that shooting anyone anywhere is posible , i love that you can loot anything from anyone anywhere (yes you CAN loot someone`s wrecks if flaged , remember , concord provides consequences not protection)..ah you all know why eve is great /rant over
Though i believe EvE won`t die at the hands of some WoW carebears (when eve will have instances or any sort of 100% safe area it will be DEAD , fact) , it`s still scary to see these kind of posts...it`s scary because CCP has a way of listening to whines . So CCP , i know you know allready but DOT LET EVE GO DOWN IN THE MASS OF NAMELESS WOW CLONES OUT THERE Privateers , racketeers , any any other guys that run in****abonds killing haulers or camp my way down to 25S , keep it up , you seem to be the best tool for filtering out eve population and driving pests away
Oh CCP Do listen to one whine! Please nerf down the amarr...now that i went minmatar i`d probably jump in front of a bestower if u dare to make the apoc work or even consider bringing lasers up par with guns
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Blue Wraith
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Posted - 2008.01.15 22:52:00 -
[70]
I ***** up when I hear that instancing will "kill Eve".
Was Eve dead when you couldn't probe out mission runners a few months back?
Maybe I missed that.
Also note that all deadspace missions with gates that you have to jump through are "instanced"... it's just that anyone can enter the instance.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.01.16 00:52:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Blue Wraith
Was Eve dead when you couldn't probe out mission runners a few months back?
Maybe I missed that.
You're missing something, as that hasn't ever been the case. A few weeks ago, probing was easier by virtue of wrecks showing up on the directional scanner. About a year ago, it was much, much easier than now because there was no deadspace penalty to scans. Before Kali, it was harder and more esoteric than now, but not as a rule impossible.
Quote: Also note that all deadspace missions with gates that you have to jump through are instanced... it's just that anyone can enter the instance.
EVE deadspaces are contiguous with regular space, and in theory people can enter them without using an acceleration gate. (By being there before they spawn or by flying really fast.) But that's almost beside the point, as instancing by definition also does not allow more than one party to enter the same dungeon locale, whether it's through the front door or some other way.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Couv Ilion
Caldari Knights Of Serenity Zeta Tau Epsilon
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Posted - 2008.01.16 03:17:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Couv Ilion on 16/01/2008 03:18:51 My problem is not so much with the salvaging itself, it's more about when it's happening. Both last night and tonight I had someone enter my mission space and salvage AND LOOT my wrecks. The problem lies in that, unbeknownst to me, they were in the first room looting and salvaging my wrecks while I was in the 2nd and 3rd rooms of the mission killing the rest of the rats. By the time I finished up the mission and returned in my salvager, all of the battleships had already been looted and salvaged, with only frigate wrecks left over.
I understand salvaging a mission after it's over and been left. That should be fair game. But to allow someone to enter a mission while its still going on and take the items that dropped from rats that I killed is ludicrous. I did not even get a chance to loot/salvage my own wrecks.
I would really like some kind of timer before someone was allowed to loot/salvage your wrecks. Say an hour, 2, 3...something. Or maybe a message when someone loots something that's "your" kill.
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syphurous
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.01.16 03:27:00 -
[73]
If they wanted people to salvage after missions have been closed ( not the ones who did the mission ) they would've made wrecks scannable. I bet less missions would be entered by people (who had not been given this mission an agent to do) if they could find wrecks without having to enter dead spaces. ___
All Ur Salvage R Belong 2 Me ! |
Couv Ilion
Caldari Knights Of Serenity Zeta Tau Epsilon
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Posted - 2008.01.16 03:47:00 -
[74]
I'm fine with salvaging with the mission still open...as long as someone else can't enter my mission, I won't end the mission before I salvage it. That could be a good way to remedy this
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syphurous
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.01.16 03:55:00 -
[75]
People are always going to be able to enter your mission. ___
All Ur Salvage R Belong 2 Me ! |
Weeka
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.01.16 05:55:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Checkis Khan I am sorry, but I fail to see what the location has to do with the point here.
It's just that everyone, and their dog, do missions in motsu, apart from getting really heavy lag in peak times, it means that people who come to salvage your mission while you are doing it, are rather concentrated in this mission hub. Go somewhere else less crowded and it'll probably never happen again to you.
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banshu
Caldari Terran Republic Ore Co. Hitchhiker's Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.28 17:41:00 -
[77]
Don`t use drones in misssions and problem solved Why is so complicated ?
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Sendraks
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.01.28 18:31:00 -
[78]
Originally by: banshu Don`t use drones in misssions and problem solved Why is so complicated ?
Use drones to your hearts content in missions, just don't do missions in the systems where salvagers operate.
It really couldn't be simpler.
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Wahjoo
Minmatar Pandemic Influenza Infinite Innovation
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Posted - 2008.01.28 20:21:00 -
[79]
Maybe the answer would be to simply change the rules in deadspace to where anyone who enters your mission and is not ganged with you would be free game. That would still allow people to salvage on regular space, but would make them think twice when it came to salvaging somone else's mission. Especially since most of those guys don't even bother to fit weapons on their ships.
"We were once so close to heaven; Peter came out and gave us medals, declaring us the nicest of the damned." |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.01.28 20:52:00 -
[80]
Well i'd do the same red flashy flag thing for salvaging wrecks as for looting wrecks.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2008.01.28 22:22:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Checkis Khan Why can he salvage my wrecks, but not loot them?
They're your wrecks, but the salvage does not exist until someone puts a salvage module on it. This is the same way mining works. No ore exists until someone puts a miner module on the asteroid, and no salvage exists until someone puts a salvage module on the wreck.
Quote: Why can I not pick up your research BPO/manyfacturing outpur from a lab?
Because it's in a lab.
Quote: Why is it not "my" mission area, when I am commisioned by Caldari Navy to solve a problem there?
Because this is a multiplayer game where player-player interaction is encouraged and part of the point.
Quote: Someone had a great suggestion above : A message saying "Caldari Navy has not granted you access to this area"
Most deadspace areas belong to a pirate faction opposed to the faction Navies. It makes no sense that the Caldari Navy controls access to Guristas deadspace gates, or they'd just lock the pirates out and you'd have no mission at all.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2008.01.28 22:29:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 28/01/2008 22:29:04
Originally by: Tribunal Bottom feeders
Consider it the EvE wellfare systems. Clearly these people can not cope without being parasites, or the only way they can make it through a day is by making someone else upset. Shame that people are that needy for attention.
99% of the player base doesn't post on forums. That makes you way more needy for attention that most players. Pot, meet kettle, you two have a lot in common.
I mean, there is no other reason for your non-constructive post but to have your ME ME ME moment. You didn't add anything new, insightful, or even interesting to the discussion. It's all about you, complaining that others got the spotlight.
Physician, heal thyself.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Roche Pso
Gallente Deltole Research Labs
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Posted - 2008.01.29 00:18:00 -
[83]
FWIW I started ninja salvaging this weekend. Why? Because my attention was drawn to it by all the mission whiners - if they didnt complain so much I would never have thought of doing it
When i found a mission partly completed I got a bit greedy and lost my ship to an npc the missioner hadnt killed. When i returned to get my can the missioner was there again and, presumably to annoy me, he popped *my* wreck! Concord showed up and I ended up without my own stuff, but with a hold full of his T2 mods LOLZ
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2008.01.29 00:51:00 -
[84]
The absolute best thing is when you warp in, and some newb with a faction-fitted GTCNR is sitting at the warp-in running his True Sansha Smartbomb. I got the TS smarty, two DG invulns, 3 DG cruise launchers and a DG EM hardener off his wreck.
Yes, probing mission runners can be very, very worthwhile, even if you don't salvage a thing.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Kirial Avo
The Older Gamers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.01.29 04:23:00 -
[85]
thats sucks I'm starting to get in to missions and I would like to feel save in there and know no one is taking my stuff http://i30.tinypic.com/34ormlv.jpg |
Calistai Huranu
Sick Cruel and Unusual Methods
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Posted - 2008.01.29 15:21:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Kirial Avo thats sucks I'm starting to get in to missions and I would like to feel save in there and know no one is taking my stuff
Rofl, no mission is safe, and you honestly think those wrecks are yours alone to salvage, priceless!
Tho what makes this post all the more amusing is that your in RoadKill, you have access to the tedium and high profit of ratting in 0.0 space, and your moaning about legitamate salvagers probing you out in high sec....
That and shouldn't you be doing your bit for the alliance in 0.0??
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.01.29 15:34:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Ulstan on 29/01/2008 15:35:04
Quote: The amount of whining generated by people loosing out on a mil or two worth of salvaging materials once every couple of weeks is way out of proportion
This is so true. And I'm a mission runner.
Quote: The problem lies in that, unbeknownst to me, they were in the first room looting and salvaging my wrecks while I was in the 2nd and 3rd rooms of the mission killing the rest of the rats. By the time I finished up the mission and returned in my salvager, all of the battleships had already been looted and salvaged, with only frigate wrecks left over.
I understand salvaging a mission after it's over and been left. That should be fair game. But to allow someone to enter a mission while its still going on and take the items that dropped from rats that I killed is ludicrous. I did not even get a chance to loot/salvage my own wrecks.
Yes, you *did* have a chance to salvage the wrecks. You chose to pass up that chance and move on to the next room of the mission. Moreover because of the way scanning works, I don't think it's even possible to find a mission once it's been abandoned, because you can't find and warp to wrecks.
Quote: Or maybe a message when someone loots something that's "your" kill.
Does anything show up in your kill rights tab?
Quote: Well i'd do the same red flashy flag thing for salvaging wrecks as for looting wrecks.
You're not looting wrecks, you're looting cargo cans. Wrecks don't belong to you at all, any more than asteroids do.
Quote: Why can he salvage my wrecks, but not loot them?
The wrecks aren't yours. The loot is. It's just like how a guy can come up and mine an asteroid you are already mining, but can't steal your jettisoned can.
You haven't done any work to make salvage from the wreck, so it's fair game. Your reward for killing the NPC is the loot + bounty. The wreck is left over for scavengers. Your reward for mining the wreck is salvage. Two separate actions.
Quote: thats sucks I'm starting to get in to missions and I would like to feel save in there and know no one is taking my stuff
You're only safe in hi sec, and they're not taking your stuff. They're scavenging salvage that doesn't belong to you.
Seriously, you all need to read more science fiction and/or 18th century salvage rules. Salvaging stuff that isn't yours is an ENTIRE PROFESSION.
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Goyda
Veni Vidi Vici. Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2008.01.29 16:51:00 -
[88]
Salvaging is a profession, anyone ever see an OLD TV show called Sanford and Son ? Check out the link below and read the sign in the image. :)
Check out the image from the TV show :)
Well if you were in lowsec, you'd get someone intrude you mission, then shoot you out of the sky, pod you if possible, then kill the rest of the rats and THEN, salvage. It would not be ninja. Or maybe that's just what I do.
To me, this is simply a whine. Life is unfair deal with it.
-- Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the drug store, but that's just peanuts to space. --
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Zao Jin
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Posted - 2008.02.07 02:27:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Checkis Khan I am sorry, but I fail to see what the location has to do with the point here. This issue exists anywhere in Empire Space.
And for useless answers like "leave Motsu", please consider using "Quit EVE" - it's more effective. It's really not the point.
Actually, this issue is primary at Caldari Navy Mission Hubs, Motsu in particular. I operate for an entirely different Caldari Corp, and the activity you're talking about has occurred in my presence twice since salvaging entered the game. Both times, I shot the wrecks down. Oddly, ninja salvagers quit following me around. Rather than whine to the devs every time something happens you don't like, fix the problem yourself. Move out of "thiefhub motsu" and dissuade your enemies.
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Sil Phylis
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Posted - 2008.02.07 14:52:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Sil Phylis on 07/02/2008 14:54:37 Just thinking aloud here but is it not an easy way to prevent lag ?
The more wreck there is the heavier the load for the server. Because some wreck don't have any loot making them disappeared (salvage) especially in system where there is already a load of player running missions should help. I'm not saying that salvager are saving us from lag obviously but I'm sure it does help.
My own way to prevent lag is to make roides disappear and ATM it work fine :)
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Summersnow
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Posted - 2008.02.07 20:23:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Xeronn Edited by: Xeronn on 15/01/2008 16:46:04 But reguardless of my feelings at some given time (privateers poped my BS in empire...you can bet i hate them , i`m only human) , I LOVE EVE , i love the fact that empire wars are posible , i love that shooting anyone anywhere is posible , i love that you can loot anything from anyone anywhere (yes you CAN loot someone`s wrecks if flaged , remember , concord provides consequences not protection)..ah you all know why eve is great /rant over
Though i believe EvE won`t die at the hands of some WoW carebears (when eve will have instances or any sort of 100% safe area it will be DEAD , fact)
I find it odd that you rant about how much you love the pvp aspects of eve, then complain about "safe areas" and carebear play and call them the death of eve
All in SUPPORT of salvage rules that protect carebear salvagers by not giving kill rights to the mission runners.
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Goyda
Veni Vidi Vici. Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2008.02.07 20:52:00 -
[92]
The GM has already cleared this up, I'm wondering why this thread isn't locked. LOL
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syphurous
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.02.07 22:44:00 -
[93]
Issue resolved, please lock.
Originally by: GM Faolchu People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong.
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CCP Mitnal
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Posted - 2008.02.08 03:25:00 -
[94]
Locked
Issue resolved.
Please see above link for details.
Mitnal, Community Representative
EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang |
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