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Robdon
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Posted - 2008.01.12 23:10:00 -
[31]
I find it a waste of time reporting bugs.
I reported many before trinity, and none were fixed before release.
There are bugs that have been around for months and months, (like the POS shield DT bug) that they just dont fix.
Its pathetic.
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.12 23:24:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Taedrin
The point about "CCP is an independent developer" is that they don't have hundreds of millions of dollars to spend on a project (compare with WoW here. As such, they can't afford to spend as much money on QA. Their resources are much more limited.
You don't need hundreds of millions of dollars to fix bugs. The 7-8 millions they are putting into advertising in the latest campaign could be put to better use... The question is, do they love their product or do they love their subscription numbers (with many new subscribers not staying long, so the effect of the ad campaign not being worthwhile in the long run unless they can improve the game and customer satisfaction)?
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As a final note, let me just say that so long as we, the customers are willing to continue giving CCP our money, to them, their product is fine.
Oh really, does that include the boot.ini fiasco? Did they only apologize because we stopped giving them money, or do they sometimes actually see how many bugs there are (see "known issues" page) and perhaps only refuse to invest into QA even though they know that the state of the game isn't "fine"?
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The only time that CCP will not think that their product is fine is when they think they stand to lose money, or lose profit.
From a business perspective, with the huge scalability problems and newbie-affecting issues they have, it would be ignorant to say that they aren't losing profit already.
Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois. |
Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2008.01.12 23:28:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Lazuran
There's really not much to say about the whole thing other than that it's extremely disappointing to many of us players how bug-ridden EVE is. It could also do much better than "fine" on the market if they paid more attention to QA.
Taedrin answered many of your points, so im not going to repeat it.
However, I dont think I am a fanboi, sure I like eve, sure I think what CCP has done since it started is impressive, sure I think the uniqueness of eve and it's environment warrants more patience when it comes to bugs.
The point of the matter is that while eve has it's bugs it's still possible to play for a whole 10 hour session without feeling the brunt of one of them. And any one that looks over the Patch Notes will see that numerous bugs have been addressed all ready.
If you look at any software project you will see more bugs than you can count, even the acclaimed market leaders of the genre have numerous bugs.
But to be honest, since your so unhappy with the state of the game why are you even playing? There is a long way from fanbois to content players to discontent players.
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Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2008.01.12 23:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Lazuran
From a business perspective, with the huge scalability problems and newbie-affecting issues they have, it would be ignorant to say that they aren't losing profit already.
Loosing profit you never had is a mute point, CCP has been growing in profit every year since the release of eve. Talking about lost profit when a company is making more money every quarter is kinda weird.
Also it seems weird that in one paragraph you bash CCP for spending 8 million for marketing and in another you bash them for potential loss of profit due to not growing.
But it seems your just angry at CCP and your probably just hoping to get a blue post answering your post to stroke your ego.
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.12 23:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
The point of the matter is that while eve has it's bugs it's still possible to play for a whole 10 hour session without feeling the brunt of one of them.
How do you do that? For example, about every 2nd time I join a gang (since Trinity), my overview window jumps up so it ends half outside the window and I cannot move it down without switching the window to a higher resolution (and back again). Just as often it is impossible to warp to a gang member on the same grid (at > 200km), I've lost a 250m ship because of that already (petitioned, no answer yet).
Then the ships that get stuck on the overview frequently in Empire, persisting even when you jump into lowsec (great fun when you still have that neutral guy stuck on your overview).
Add to that the numerous bugs the frequent player has accustomed himself to and which he works around automatically.
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If you look at any software project you will see more bugs than you can count, even the acclaimed market leaders of the genre have numerous bugs.
You are trying to downplay the effect of the bugs in EVE again. I use a lot of software both at home and at work and never have I had to do weird stuff like the above procedure all the time just to get my stuff done. The UI is so broken (and has been broken in all versions as long as I can remember) that it is just plain annoying. Do you really think so many people would complain frequently about bugs if they were all minor issues that didn't hamper the gameplay? Think again.
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But to be honest, since your so unhappy with the state of the game why are you even playing? There is a long way from fanbois to content players to discontent players.
Because I'm a masochist. Or because of what you wrote: Quote:
I think the uniqueness of eve and it's environment warrants more patience when it comes to bugs.
If I didn't like the game enough, I wouldn't even bother complaining about bugs.
Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois. |
Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.12 23:53:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Originally by: Lazuran
From a business perspective, with the huge scalability problems and newbie-affecting issues they have, it would be ignorant to say that they aren't losing profit already.
Loosing profit you never had is a mute point, CCP has been growing in profit every year since the release of eve. Talking about lost profit when a company is making more money every quarter is kinda weird.
Lost profit is e.g. what CCP didn't earn as a direct result of the bad press following the boot.ini fiasco.
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Also it seems weird that in one paragraph you bash CCP for spending 8 million for marketing and in another you bash them for potential loss of profit due to not growing.
Pretty ignorant reading there. I stated that they're not growing like they could because they are plagued by bugs and bad QA. If you are trying to say that dumping 8 millions into marketing is a good compensation for lacking customer satisfaction, then I just have to shake my head in disbelief.
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But it seems your just angry at CCP and your probably just hoping to get a blue post answering your post to stroke your ego.
Nice try. I'm not angry at all and I don't need a blue post for anything, CCP can and do post with their alts. ;-)
PS. The forum bugs are annoying too, I need to press "submit & back" about 5-10 times per post, good increase from the 1-2 times half a year ago. The browser session management is broken, it seems.
Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois. |
Taedrin
Gallente
Magellan Exploration and Survey
Rare Faction
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Posted - 2008.01.12 23:59:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lazuran
You don't need hundreds of millions of dollars to fix bugs. The 7-8 millions they are putting into advertising in the latest campaign could be put to better use... The question is, do they love their product or do they love their subscription numbers (with many new subscribers not staying long, so the effect of the ad campaign not being worthwhile in the long run unless they can improve the game and customer satisfaction)?
You do, however, need millions of spare dollars to spend on hiring professional QA teams, purchasing a suitable variety and number of computers to test on, not to mention all of the expenses involved in creating an infrastructure to provide the needed communication between the QA team and the developers. Also consider that if you have too much communication between the QA team and developers, you are then wasting developers time which leads to an oppourtunity cost.
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Oh really, does that include the boot.ini fiasco? Did they only apologize because we stopped giving them money, or do they sometimes actually see how many bugs there are (see "known issues" page) and perhaps only refuse to invest into QA even though they know that the state of the game isn't "fine"?
They apologized because they thought that they would lose money if they did not fix the problem as soon as possible. Hence my saying:
"The only time that CCP will not think that their product is fine is when they think they stand to lose money, or lose profit."
Quote:
From a business perspective, with the huge scalability problems and newbie-affecting issues they have, it would be ignorant to say that they aren't losing profit already.
I am sorry, but I probably used the wrong words here. What I mean by losing profit is that they lose subscriptions, but still maintain profitability. IE, if they had 10 million dollars profit last year, and then had 9 million dollars profit this year. I do not think they are losing profit, because I believe their subscription numbers are continuing to grow at a slow, but steady, pace.
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Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2008.01.13 00:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Lazuran
You are trying to downplay the effect of the bugs in EVE again. I use a lot of software both at home and at work and never have I had to do weird stuff like the above procedure all the time just to get my stuff done. The UI is so broken (and has been broken in all versions as long as I can remember) that it is just plain annoying. Do you really think so many people would complain frequently about bugs if they were all minor issues that didn't hamper the gameplay? Think again.
I use windows everyday, I use outlook and exchange as well and I experience more bugs and annoyances during my workday than during my eve experience. And I dont mean to downplay anything, my point is simply that bugs exist and they will be annoying and they will take time to address.
The interface is indeed not bug free and I believe it has been mentioned by devs that it's basic design is flawed and that there are plans to rectify that situation in the future.
btw, I must admit that the bugs that you mentioned do happen to me but not frequently enough to annoy me.
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.01.13 00:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
I use windows everyday, I use outlook and exchange as well and I experience more bugs and annoyances during my workday than during my eve experience. And I dont mean to downplay anything, my point is simply that bugs exist and they will be annoying and they will take time to address.
I'm with you there - I do not use Exchange but I have heard that it's not good (which is one of the reasons why we don't use it at work). On the other hand, I didn't have to reboot my PC since before the boot.ini "upgrade" and the only thing that made me reboot today was: jumping into Oursulaert. My graphics card driver went crazy (it seems), the graphics in EVE were all messed up and the whole system froze for 20-30 seconds at a time with short breaks in between even after restarting EVE until I rebooted. No graphics card overclocking, never had such a problem before.
Quote:
The interface is indeed not bug free and I believe it has been mentioned by devs that it's basic design is flawed and that there are plans to rectify that situation in the future.
That's good news, esp. to me (I think the UI is extremely important, but I acknowledge that it's a matter of taste as well).
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btw, I must admit that the bugs that you mentioned do happen to me but not frequently enough to annoy me.
x up more often. ;-)
Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois. |
fuze
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Posted - 2008.01.13 00:53:00 -
[40]
The boot.ini incident was explained and it wasn't about the typo that was made. But that release wasn't tested properly. Beside that the whole trinity was rushed because they had to release it before X-mas because the already planned their advertising campaign. You hardly can blaim QA for things like that.
You can blaim the people that give you feedback on your reporting bugs where is about half of them answered by as incompetent people as the (junior) GM with their cut and past answers and not really trying to understand what you tell them in the first place. That is clearly because they have to fulfill some kind of quota every month. They don't care about quality but care about getting their monthly quota. |
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MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2008.01.13 00:54:00 -
[41]
That's lag, not a bug.
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Ernesto Hoost
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Posted - 2008.01.13 00:59:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Why don't you help them out by filing a bug report on the issue?
When CCP pays me, I'll start doing their work for them
I don't pay to play a BEta version of a game 
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Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2008.01.13 01:19:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lazuran
Quote:
btw, I must admit that the bugs that you mentioned do happen to me but not frequently enough to annoy me.
x up more often. ;-)
hehe touchT, haven't been doing much gang work sine trinity.
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