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Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.03.30 03:41:00 -
[91] - Quote
MercenaryBlue wrote: - Remove any bonus to XL guns. They can fit them, but they'll do average DPS.
Once the tracking issue is fixed, do you think that titan's capital weapons will still be broken? Why make this change?
MercenaryBlue wrote: - Keep the Logistics (clone vats/etc) and Leadership Bonus. This should be the Titan's primary role.
This would still limit bridges to alliances that can afford a titan. Unless of course this was in addition to CCP adding a cheaper option for a bridging ship.
MercenaryBlue wrote: - Have the Doomsday consume ammo. Not just Oxygen - actual ammo that'll take several weeks to research and manufacture.
Making the doomsday consume fuel/ammo isnt a bad idea, its just that the cost of such should not be made into a balancing factor. Having it take a long time to produce said ammo wont really stop the production of multiples at once, so i dont see the point in that.
MercenaryBlue wrote: - Have diminish returns on Doomsday depending on how many Titans are in fleet. Prevent more than one doomsday per 5 minutes from being fired in the grid.
It would probably be simpler to just re-balance the super weapon, than to implement this change, so I would suggest that we start there.
MercenaryBlue wrote: - Add Drone Bandwith to field Fighters.
This sounds like too much bridging of the roles to me, I would not be in favor of this change especially since titans just had their drones removed...
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Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.01 18:00:00 -
[92] - Quote
Any more comments, thoughts, or ideas out there? |
nestafarios
stooge in plain sight
2
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Posted - 2012.04.02 05:43:00 -
[93] - Quote
I have somewhat followed the issue, and i keep coming back to the same thought, why would for instance, the U.S. call up the country they are at war with or whomever, and say we need to redesign your tanks? I think that is the whole purpose of arms races between countries in RL. wouldn't it be a better idea to install a sub cap ship that can deal with such things, maybe a variation of a super cap, or a dread type ship that can take em on in the field.
I have heard that it is basically the end of training also, getting into your titan and a long investment in time. I just think it should be more of an advance for the game rather than trashing it (so to speak) to make it more EVEN. |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.02 06:21:00 -
[94] - Quote
nestafarios wrote: Wouldn't it be a better idea to install a sub cap ship that can deal with such things, maybe a variation of a super cap, or a dread type ship that can take em on in the field..
The problem with introducing a new ship designed to kill a fleet of something that is too powerful at the moment, is that once you have a fleet of those ships, what keeps it from becoming the next OP ship. Then you have to introduce a new ship to beat your new ship that beats the old ship.
If your only going to introduce a ship as a way of balancing an existing ship, you need to make sure that your not just creating a new problem. Once you take all of the effort that entails into account, you have spent more time on the project than simply balancing the old ship would have taken.
Your military example doesnt quite work here, because this is a game not real life. The game needs to be balanced, and each ship needs to have counters, otherwise it becomes a game of who can field the highest numbers of the most powerful ship. |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.04 07:22:00 -
[95] - Quote
ok, how about some constructive criticism. |
R4V3N3R
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
0
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Posted - 2012.04.05 20:50:00 -
[96] - Quote
Nerf tracking Increase average dps to 15000 Limit the amount of titans that can be ongrid. |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.06 00:26:00 -
[97] - Quote
R4V3N3R wrote: Nerf tracking Increase average dps to 15000 Limit the amount of titans that can be ongrid.
Tracking: CCP already have plans for fixing that. Damage increase: Why? Titan limit: Can you think of a method to implement this that wouldnt unbalance something else, while also getting the job done, that also takes less time to code than just fixing the titan/superweapon?
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Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.10 08:18:00 -
[98] - Quote
blatant bump |
Tar Omrir
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.04.11 11:30:00 -
[99] - Quote
Dps increase needed because titans should ALWAYS be able to do more dps than anything else in the game. I like the idea of titans having to log on to something in system, but maybe make it more like a SBU that anchors and onlines at the TCU in 1 minute. In low it oils go around the control bunker. Tar Omrir, Chairman, Cygnus Industries |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.11 19:32:00 -
[100] - Quote
Tar Omrir wrote:Dps increase needed because titans should ALWAYS be able to do more dps than anything else in the game. I like the idea of titans having to log on to something in system, but maybe make it more like a SBU that anchors and onlines at the TCU in 1 minute. In low it oils go around the control bunker.
I agree that the titans need a damage boost, but it should come at a penalty just like the dread. Why not just let the titan use the siege module instead of outright buffing its damage? This would be much easier to implement than your suggestion, and would do just about the same thing, while also providing a penalty when it does use its massive DPS.
This is starting to sound alot like the superdread portion of my proposal... |
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Tar Omrir
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.04.11 21:23:00 -
[101] - Quote
I disagree on the siege. Titans shouldn't become a tech two dread. Tar Omrir, Chairman, Cygnus Industries |
Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
39
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Posted - 2012.04.12 02:18:00 -
[102] - Quote
The titan is a mobile outpost with the abilities to destroy other mobile out post, it shouldn't be able to hit a subcap even if said subcap were in the barrel or silo of the titans main weapon. Moving an XL weapon barrel should be extremly slow, otherwise the barrels would bend from inertia and stress due to their immense size. Shooting a battle ship with a titan should be like shooting a bumble bee at 5 miles with a 120mm cannon. |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.12 19:56:00 -
[103] - Quote
Tar Omrir wrote:I disagree on the siege. Titans shouldn't become a tech two dread.
Then how would you implement a damage increase, while also providing a risk in using that boosted damage? |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.12 20:02:00 -
[104] - Quote
Jayrendo Karr wrote:The titan is a mobile outpost with the abilities to destroy other mobile outpost (titans), it shouldn't be able to hit a subcap even if said subcap were in the barrel or silo of the titans main weapon. Moving an XL weapon barrel should be extremly slow, otherwise the barrels would bend from inertia and stress due to their immense size. Shooting a battle ship with a titan should be like shooting a bumble bee at 5 miles with a 120mm cannon.
Dreads are made for combat, titans are made for support.
A titan is not a mobile outpost. It is a fleet boosting, force projecting, superweapon equipped, capital weapon combat machine. Which in my opinion is too much, hence the proposal to divide up its capabilities into separate ships.
Yes I agree it should not be able to hit subcaps, but like ive already said, CCP is working on a fix for that.
As ive already pointed out, the titan is not a support ship. They are made for combat, even more so in fact since they have multiple combat roles that synergize together than dreads do. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
622
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Posted - 2012.04.12 20:07:00 -
[105] - Quote
Tyran Scorpi wrote:Jayrendo Karr wrote:The titan is a mobile outpost with the abilities to destroy other mobile outpost (titans), it shouldn't be able to hit a subcap even if said subcap were in the barrel or silo of the titans main weapon. Moving an XL weapon barrel should be extremly slow, otherwise the barrels would bend from inertia and stress due to their immense size. Shooting a battle ship with a titan should be like shooting a bumble bee at 5 miles with a 120mm cannon.
Dreads are made for combat, titans are made for support. A titan is not a mobile outpost. It is a fleet boosting, force projecting, superweapon equipped, capital weapon combat machine. Which in my opinion is too much, hence the proposal to divide up its capabilities into separate ships. Yes I agree it should not be able to hit subcaps, but like ive already said, CCP is working on a fix for that. As ive already pointed out, the titan is not a support ship. They are made for combat, even more so in fact since they have multiple combat roles that synergize together than dreads do. It isn't but it should be, an can in fact be turned into one. Titans are conceptually incompatible with Eve. You can't make them a powerful enough combat ship to be worthy of what they are supposed to be without unbalancing the whole game. They should never have existed, but they do now. Best approach is to redo them completely in a non-combat role, since just deleting them is not a viable option. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Tar Omrir
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2012.04.13 01:30:00 -
[106] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Tyran Scorpi wrote:Jayrendo Karr wrote:The titan is a mobile outpost with the abilities to destroy other mobile outpost (titans), it shouldn't be able to hit a subcap even if said subcap were in the barrel or silo of the titans main weapon. Moving an XL weapon barrel should be extremly slow, otherwise the barrels would bend from inertia and stress due to their immense size. Shooting a battle ship with a titan should be like shooting a bumble bee at 5 miles with a 120mm cannon.
Dreads are made for combat, titans are made for support. A titan is not a mobile outpost. It is a fleet boosting, force projecting, superweapon equipped, capital weapon combat machine. Which in my opinion is too much, hence the proposal to divide up its capabilities into separate ships. Yes I agree it should not be able to hit subcaps, but like ive already said, CCP is working on a fix for that. As ive already pointed out, the titan is not a support ship. They are made for combat, even more so in fact since they have multiple combat roles that synergize together than dreads do. It isn't but it should be, an can in fact be turned into one. Titans are conceptually incompatible with Eve. You can't make them a powerful enough combat ship to be worthy of what they are supposed to be without unbalancing the whole game. They should never have existed, but they do now. Best approach is to redo them completely in a non-combat role, since just deleting them is not a viable option.
But u can. Limit the amount of ingame titans, then u can make them very powerful without breaking the game. Tar Omrir, Chairman, Cygnus Industries |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
624
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Posted - 2012.04.13 13:43:00 -
[107] - Quote
Tar Omrir wrote: But u can. Limit the amount of ingame titans, then u can make them very powerful without breaking the game.
Who get to keep their titans? Are you suggesting CCP take titans away from anyone who has to many? How exactly would you propose to do this with out creating a potential situation where one side has an overwhelming number of titans?
If you limit it to say, 10, at least 7 of those 10 will end up joining the same alliance because titans are much safer with other titans around. Do you understand why this would be a problem? Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
166
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Posted - 2012.04.13 16:57:00 -
[108] - Quote
Tyran Scorpi wrote:Jayrendo Karr wrote:The titan is a mobile outpost with the abilities to destroy other mobile outpost (titans), it shouldn't be able to hit a subcap even if said subcap were in the barrel or silo of the titans main weapon. Moving an XL weapon barrel should be extremly slow, otherwise the barrels would bend from inertia and stress due to their immense size. Shooting a battle ship with a titan should be like shooting a bumble bee at 5 miles with a 120mm cannon.
Dreads are made for combat, titans are made for support. A titan is not a mobile outpost. It is a fleet boosting, force projecting, superweapon equipped, capital weapon combat machine. Which in my opinion is too much, hence the proposal to divide up its capabilities into separate ships. Yes I agree it should not be able to hit subcaps, but like ive already said, CCP is working on a fix for that. As ive already pointed out, the titan is not a support ship. They are made for combat, even more so in fact since they have multiple combat roles that synergize together than dreads do.
They SHOULD be support ships. As long as it's a combat ship we will continue to see fleets with dozens of titans.
Titans should be mobile stations with full docking, logging on/off capability for docked players, (upgradable) station-services, and corporation-owned and operated in the same way POS are.
Their role should be forward command-posts for big sov-alliances and mobile HQ's for more nomadic smaller alliances. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.13 20:05:00 -
[109] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote: You can't make them a powerful enough combat ship to be worthy of what they are supposed to be without unbalancing the whole game.
With as many roles as titans currently have, you are correct that they unbalance the whole game. However, if we were to cut down on the number of roles they were able to perform in, they become much easier to balance properly while still being appropriately powerful.
Tar Omrir wrote: But u can. Limit the amount of ingame titans, then u can make them very powerful without breaking the game.
All of the methods of limiting titans I have seen thus far are unsatisfactory to downright terrible from a coding standpoint. An adjustment of the superweapon and the roles a titan can perform would be a much easier fix.
Tobiaz wrote: As long as it's a combat ship we will continue to see fleets with dozens of titans.
Titans should be mobile stations with full docking, logging on/off capability for docked players, (upgradable) station-services, and corporation-owned and operated in the same way POS are.
I don't see a problem with large fleets of titans, the problem I see is that said fleets of titans have no counter, and that's what needs to be fixed. They are currently far too capable and fitting them into a more focused role seems to be the easiest and simplest method of fixing it that I have seen.
I kind of agree that you should be able to dock subcaps in a titan, but not capitals. You should not be able to log out while docked in a titan and I dont see any purpose for station services in a titan other than perhaps a repair bay. Titans should not be associated with a POS in any way shape or form IMO. If you want a station, build a station, you can buy 4 of them for the price of a titan. |
Tar Omrir
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:09:00 -
[110] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Tar Omrir wrote: But u can. Limit the amount of ingame titans, then u can make them very powerful without breaking the game.
Who get to keep their titans? Are you suggesting CCP take titans away from anyone who has to many? How exactly would you propose to do this with out creating a potential situation where one side has an overwhelming number of titans? If you limit it to say, 10, at least 7 of those 10 will end up joining the same alliance because titans are much safer with other titans around. Do you understand why this would be a problem?
Limit Titan pilots can only join corps that are in alliances, and these corps can only have one player with one of the Titan skill books injected in corp. A alliance could only have one tiatn capable corp at a time. all exsisting titans would be kept, however it you owned a Titan u would be forced to drop corp. Tar Omrir, Chairman, Cygnus Industries |
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Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.13 20:13:00 -
[111] - Quote
Tar Omrir wrote: Limit Titan pilots can only join corps that are in alliances, and these corps can only have one player with one of the Titan skill books injected in corp. A alliance could only have one tiatn capable corp at a time. all exsisting titans would be kept, however it you owned a Titan u would be forced to drop corp.
Yet another terrible idea.... what about corps with 15 people with titan skillbooks injected, even if none of them have the ship to go with it, are you going to force them to not be able to play together? |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.16 18:54:00 -
[112] - Quote
I suppose I shouldnt have jumped on that suggestion quite as hard as I did, but PLEASE put some thought into your suggestions before you make them. Its hard not to respond aggressively to a suggestion that has that many holes in it. |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
0
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Posted - 2012.04.17 10:06:00 -
[113] - Quote
Mayby a new ship type thats bigger than a titan? |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
71
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Posted - 2012.04.17 15:45:00 -
[114] - Quote
I would go with two ships, actually. Split the bridging, clones, and fleet bonuses off the titan for a mothership hull. Titans in a pure combat role makes sense though. I think the whole titans shooting subcaps thing will be a thing of the past soon. CCP seems to be on the right path to fixing them, post Fan Fest. |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.17 16:13:00 -
[115] - Quote
Bagehi wrote:I would go with two ships, actually. Split the bridging, clones, and fleet bonuses off the titan for a mothership hull. Titans in a pure combat role makes sense though.
hmmm, but with the fleet bonuses on the mothership, you would have to bring it into the combat system to take advantage of them... which may not be a bad thing, more of them will get killed. The other thought is that if you are putting the fleet bonuses on the mothership, you need to have 1 for each race, or give all 4 titan fleet bonuses to 1 ship. Alternately, allow the mothership to fit 1 or 2 of the possible 4 fleet bonuses at once. Given these options I think I would still prefer the fleet bonuses on the titan.
I also think the capital weapons should be given a dedicated platform, and the superweapon buffed to compensate. What would be your reasoning for keeping them together? |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1423
|
Posted - 2012.04.18 05:04:00 -
[116] - Quote
Jayrendo Karr wrote:The titan is a mobile outpost with the abilities to destroy other mobile outpost (titans), it shouldn't be able to hit a subcap even if said subcap were in the barrel or silo of the titans main weapon. Moving an XL weapon barrel should be extremly slow, otherwise the barrels would bend from inertia and stress due to their immense size. Shooting a battle ship with a titan should be like shooting a bumble bee at 5 miles with a 120mm cannon.
Dreads are made for combat, titans are made for support capital overkill.
I agree. Supers should not be anti-sub cap platforms.
In the same breath, shooting at a super with anything smaller than a XL gun /bombers should result in absolutely no damage to shields captain.
Puny munitions worthless munitions, regardless of how big your BS blob is...
After all, the lack of force generated by those small arms against its massive hull is just insignificant enough to do nothing worth caring about. Otherwise, it would be like flies hitting your windshield on the highway, going through the window, through your brain, flip the car and come out the other side unharmed.... |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.19 05:38:00 -
[117] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote: I agree. Supers should not be anti-sub cap platforms.
In the same breath, shooting at a super with anything smaller than a XL gun /bombers should result in absolutely no damage to shields captain.
Puny munitions worthless munitions, regardless of how big your BS blob is...
After all, the lack of force generated by those small arms against its massive hull is just insignificant enough to do nothing worth caring about. Otherwise, it would be like flies hitting your windshield on the highway, going through the window, through your brain, flip the car and come out the other side unharmed....
If subcaps couldn't hurt a titan, and titans crap on regular capitals, it would be just as unbalanced as they are now. I could probably agree that anything smaller than battleship class weapons shouldn't do much of anything to a titan, but battleships should be the primary counter to titans. |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.24 06:52:00 -
[118] - Quote
bump |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.04.28 18:23:00 -
[119] - Quote
Still looking for good ideas. |
Tyran Scorpi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.05.03 20:12:00 -
[120] - Quote
bump |
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