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Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2004.03.22 07:35:00 -
[31]
I can¦t follow the argument that only pirates want the Highway removed ...
My Corp produces and trades - and I would really love to see the highway burn.
Once a week I¦d fill my Iteron Mark V with a ****load of Missiles and Drones we produced to do a 2 hour flight into another Empire - My Corpmates will have to escort me for security reasons because space between the empires is unsecure - we will have a risk - but when getting through we will have a nice reward.
Don¦t you see that taking away the luxury of the Super-Highway might spice up the Game ?
Soo many are moaning for new content, nothing left to do in the game ¦n stuff - but still there is crying if possibilities to make the game more interesting are discussed ...
I remember the time before the Highway system - if i planned to buy something new i spent an evening checking prices in 3 regions ... now i¦m able to check prices in 9 regions within 30 minutes ...
before the highway system it was possible to retail playercrafted Items between regions - I made a nice profit buying MWDs in Verge Vendor and selling them in Placid with a nice markup .. nowadays this is a story of the good old times ...
realize that taking away the highway brings chances with the risk - and those willing to take the chances and succeed could have a nice reward.
Conclusion:
Remove or heavily toll the Highway
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GodEmperor
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Posted - 2004.03.22 07:40:00 -
[32]
it already takes too damn long to go anywhere now...the gates r great..infact they need more to the .0 sectors that r guarded so the lazy pirates would have to actually work to make money and not just sit at one spot....
..another idea is to have limited jump drives that would let u bypass the gates that r being camped....0 space would be more accessable then and hellmar would be happy cause more ppl would go to low sec sectors to mine 
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.03.22 09:47:00 -
[33]
 Quote:
CCP have done a great job but thier pandering to the masses rather than sticking to thier guns.... Folk are getting bored ...
Firstly, contradictory statements. If CCP *are* pandering to the masses, then the masses are *not* getting bored.
Secondly, what the hell else did you expect them to do? They have to make M-O-N-E-Y, and they can't do that by changing the game so that you like it and nobody else does, unless you're willing to pay $250,000 a month to play it.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:18:00 -
[34]
Quote:
it already takes too damn long to go anywhere now...the gates r great..infact they need more to the .0 sectors that r guarded so the lazy pirates would have to actually work to make money and not just sit at one spot....
..another idea is to have limited jump drives that would let u bypass the gates that r being camped....0 space would be more accessable then and hellmar would be happy cause more ppl would go to low sec sectors to mine
no, wait...
.
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:37:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Avon on 22/03/2004 10:38:38
Quote:
Firstly, contradictory statements. If CCP *are* pandering to the masses, then the masses are *not* getting bored.
The masses want to be bored.
They want to mine with no risk.
They want to trade with no risk.
They want to profit with no risk.
I say kill 'em all.
Eve is about risk vs isk.
The highways must burn.
Regional trade should florish.
Trade between regions should be profitable (very), and risky (very).
The only way to do this without getting rid of the highways is to get each empire to tax foreign imports - then smugglers can risk the wrath of the authorities for avoiding the tax, but expect a nice big payout if they pull it off.
Personally I think the empires should be seperate, there should be border zones. There should be piracy and smuggling between empires.
Carebears can stay in their own empire and scrape a living, the brave can seize the opportunities and make a killing, or die trying.
Result. Race choices mean something. Roles can be played. People can profit in more ways from risk taking, and the namby pamby little whiners can float around all day in their own empire moaning until they grow a pair.
Perfect.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:41:00 -
[36]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 22/03/2004 10:43:45
oh my god.
Did everyone wake up and forget to take their sense with them into work?
Until Jumpdrives or the interbus are in the game, shut up about the highways.
And for those who are telling people to shut up about the distance you need to travel. I'll say one thing to you. Go take a trip to farthest 0.0 space. Then do it everyday. Then stfu.
Without the highways, you are removing MY business away from me, and the rest of the pirate hunters/bounty hunters/mercenaries in the game.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:49:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Avon on 22/03/2004 10:50:44
Er, bounty hunters jobs would be easier.
Almost all the pirates would be in the border zones between empires.
Flying an ultra secure route from the capitals of each empire in 0 time is stupid. Imagine a Washington / Moscow insta-jump superhighway during the cold war. Neither side would have allowed it unless they controlled it. The (inter-empire) highways must die. I don't care if you can jump anywhere within each empire in just a couple of hops, but routes between empires should be risky and involve a little more time / effort.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:53:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Edited by: Avon on 22/03/2004 10:50:44
Er, bounty hunters jobs would be easier.
Almost all the pirates would be in the border zones between empires.
Flying an ultra secure route from the capitals of each empire in 0 time is stupid. Imagine a Washington / Moscow insta-jump superhighway during the cold war. Neither side would have allowed it unless they controlled it. The (inter-empire) highways must die. I don't care if you can jump anywhere within each empire in just a couple of hops, but routes between empires should be risky and involve a little more time / effort.
I didn't say it would be more difficult, I said you were removing business away from me.
Corp A wants me to attack Corp B.
Corp B is in Tash Murkon, I have just finished a merc contract in Lonetrek.
I could spend 2 weeks moving all RKK stuff down since I only play a few hours an evening or I could turn down the contract and try to find some business in the surrounding areas.
*ace*
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Nelix Trist
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:53:00 -
[39]
When is shiva comming?
----------------------------------
Bad A*s Pilot / Rank 5 / SP: 1,000,000 of 1,300,000 |
Jexter
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:57:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Jexter on 22/03/2004 11:03:25
As the playerbase increases, the Highways are less needed. I believe that one reason why they were put into place was that players were too scattered around, making the regional markets too little and forcing pilots to travel long distances to buy what they needed.
However, the average number of players in game in any given moment has doubled since the highways were put into place. I believe that now there are enough pilots around to support regional markets in Empire Space. Traders would have a job again ferrying items from one region to another and there would be a lot of new opportunities for little specialized corporations and for the new players coming into the game. It would also be benefical from a Roleplaying point of view.
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 11:00:00 -
[41]
Not at all.
I think you are assuming it is my intention to make travel times longer, but that is not the case.
You should be able to jump around Empire space faster than you can now (a regional highway system), but you should have to fly through low or 0 sec border regions to travel between empires.
Net result is that empire - empire space is riskier, but on the whole not much slower. (Quicker to travel the empire you are in, slower to get to another empire.)
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.03.22 11:10:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Slithereen on 22/03/2004 11:12:05
"Flying an ultra secure route from the capitals of each empire in 0 time is stupid. Imagine a Washington / Moscow insta-jump superhighway during the cold war."
Imagine modern Europe then, without all the highways that currently connect all the capitals of Europe.
And we do have ultra secure instajump route from each capital to each capital. It's called air travel.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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VaderDSL
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Posted - 2004.03.22 11:14:00 -
[43]
Why not, if the highways are staying ... make them insecure?
Allow a some what limited pirate presence? I mean true it's in empire space and all, but surely they can have a special class for the highways? kind of like international waters with little or no empire protection?
That way you will HAVE to fight, or at least struggle your way through the highways, but goin through the outlying systems would be safer, however more time consuming?
Probably a dumb idea and imopssible to do, but it would give highways a meaning, we could then have pirate highway men, sticking haulers up for their cargo etc. :D
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 11:20:00 -
[44]
Quote:
And we do have ultra secure instajump route from each capital to each capital. It's called air travel.
The words of someone who doesn't fly much.
Ok, so in eve you have to dock in a station at the highway jump-gate 3hrs before you want to leave. When you get totthe other end you have to declare any goods you are importing and pay import duty. You can't take weapons through the highway, even fitted to your ship. You need a permit for every mining laser.
And you have to hope no-one has planted a bomb on your ship and it blows up mid-jump.
I guess that would be a reasonable solution, although I foresee it being slightly unpopular.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Karunel
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Posted - 2004.03.22 11:59:00 -
[45]
Personally I dislike highways. I don't see why people start with the "it only benefit gankers!!" point, when 1) Pirates =/= gankers and 2) EVE is supossed to be risky.
Also, I consider highways to be very against the spirit of EVE, in which there are 5 divided empires (or 4, as you want), not a mega conglomerate. With the highways, I have to take a look at the jumpgates to see where I am when I'm making a long trip because it's like "now you're here and hop now you are 92385289358275987235872340823897 au's away".
Finally, I know that if you had to cross the entire galaxy every day it would be a damn pain, but the whole point is that without highways, economies and corporations would surely stick much more to their own space so there would be more opportunities to act in a limited space. Now there's no point in that because you are like 1 hour from anywhere (Ok a bit more but you get my point).
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.03.22 12:00:00 -
[46]
I've flown a lot---Asia, the US and Europe---much more than you will ever realize since my family are corporate expatriates working for major trading and financing firms.
But never for one moment I believe "regional markets" and any form of protectionism is good for anyone. In Hong Kong, more than any part of the world, we have seen the greatest freedom in the exchange of goods. The result is a city wealthier alone than many countries.
Capitalism here, and as it should be in every part of the world, should be idealistically brutal and unconstrained. Everyone should compete like they are in one giant market, and evolutionary capitalism is actually much more efficient that way in the long run. No tariffs, no taxes. Pure Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand. Regionalism only protects inefficient competitors, like inefficient corporations in Japan that help contribute to an exceedingly expensive living standard and a decades old recession.
The highway forced me to compete harder against trade competitors from Gallente, Minmatar and Caldari regions, rather than just in Amarr only.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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C4w3
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Posted - 2004.03.22 12:09:00 -
[47]
How about removing Instajumps give that a skill instead and also for faster transportation in eve uni. then we wouldent need highways ;0)
jUst my 2 cent.
"If all the heroes are standing together around a strange device and begin to taunt me, I will pull out a conventional one. |
Finitos
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Posted - 2004.03.22 12:18:00 -
[48]
The highways have been in for too long to yank em out completely... i would like it but i doubt they would do that. Id say put tolls on the highway gates, tolls based on the size of the ship so that it would be insanely expensive to move anything other than frigs and maybe cruisers through them.
Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 12:28:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Avon on 22/03/2004 12:37:15
Slithereen, I think you are missing the point by so far you must be doing it on purpose.
Each empire has a DIFFERENT idealogy.
As things stand at the moment there is just one big empire, and that is wrong.
I respect your ideas on free trade, although Hong Kong's underlying black market and corruption do not make it a good example.
However, it doesn't matter if one system is inherently better than another - in Eve each empire thinks their system is best. The highway between systems dilutes and pollutes the uniqueness of the Empires. I am sure the Amarrians would like to distance itself from the evil rebellious slaves who rose up against them. I am not so sure they would do this by allowing them free, fast and unrestricted travel in and out of their empire.
Unfortunately, currently all those differences are covered up by the stupid, and needless, homogenisation of the empires - mostly due to the super-highway system.
It affects the game on so many levels; trade, roleplay, smuggling, piracy, mining, combat, industry...
We need the backstory to mean something.
We need race to mean something.
We need the Empires to mean something.
The super-highway must burn.
Oh, make factional standing mean something too.
k'thx.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Demiurge Ialdaboth
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Posted - 2004.03.22 12:33:00 -
[50]
I believe a better way to toll the gates would be to charge an amount relative to the value of the cargo you are ferrying through.
However I opt to remove the highways.
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Chelsea rorec
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Posted - 2004.03.22 13:05:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Edited by: Slithereen on 22/03/2004 11:12:05
"Flying an ultra secure route from the capitals of each empire in 0 time is stupid. Imagine a Washington / Moscow insta-jump superhighway during the cold war."
Imagine modern Europe then, without all the highways that currently connect all the capitals of Europe.
And we do have ultra secure instajump route from each capital to each capital. It's called air travel.
The Uk has the channel tunnel from london to paris ..WHY ?coz nobody wants to go via boat which takes 3 hrs or whatever..Flying isn't viable coz you can't take alot of frieght.
Its the same with the highways nobody wants to take all day to get to where they want to go.
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 13:39:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Its the same with the highways nobody wants to take all day to get to where they want to go.
But they expect it to be free, easy, safe, hassle free and to be able to transport anything they want.
If you wanted to smuggle stuff from the UK to France, a small private boat would be much more likely to succeed than a white van on the tunnel.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Chade Malloy
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Posted - 2004.03.22 14:22:00 -
[53]
I don¦t wanna travell 20 freakin minutes from Amarr to Luminaire, just to put another job into the factory, because my offices are spread over the whole universe...since i "grew up" with the highways.
And i only run a small corp...imagine the mourning of the bigger ones, especally when it comes to assets-transfer.
Well...maybe there is a better solution...maybe add even the low sec. border systems between the empires, but don¦t make it from today to tomorrow, anounce it maybe a month before and then think of a fitting RP story.
Don¦t even THINK about simply deleting them from one patch to the other!
Patience wins. |
Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2004.03.22 15:05:00 -
[54]
I agree to highway removal somewhat. It does make empire way to easy to get around, and pretty much turns it into one big gangbang of noobs with crappy items to sell.
HOWEVER -
Putting 0.0 - 0.2 between empires? Please end yourself. You've all seen how bottlenecks into regions like Syndicate, Pure Blind, Providence, Vale of the Silent, etc are camped to hell by alliances and/or pirates. The camping wouldn't be so bad if it took more than 5 people to do it properly. With low-sec between empires, noobs would be forced into staying in their 'home' unless they wanted to be ganked repeatedly by retards who have nothing better to do than sit near one gate for 6-12 hours a day and kill anything that comes through.
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KIAHicks
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Posted - 2004.03.22 15:18:00 -
[55]
Quote:
The highways need to be removed or their use needs to be tolled. Moreso, it should be impossible to pass from one empire to another without traversing 0.0. Each empire should be a standalone economy and actually pulling off transporting minerals or items from one empire to the other should be hard, risky, but rewarding.
Now that I agree with. The only time you should be able to pass between empires whilst still staying in empire space is if their allies or friends. The moment wars etc start brewing, the odd lawless area should be made so that each empire becomes an island surrounded by low sec 0.1 or 0.0 space.
Highway tolls should be quite high to make it a decision between high profit/risky travel through the 0.0 system or two to get to the next empire, or low risk/high toll/lower profit to go via the highway.
Also just travelling between highways with no cargo should be no toll for cruisers/frigates. But should be tolled for battleships with the assumption their only use is war and war is discouraged :P
That way travel between regions is harder and more risky. Regional markets should thrive and entraprenours (sp??) can setup high risk but high profit trade routes.
As it is now, the only risk is really when you travel into 0.0, which imo doesn't do much to help cultivate regional empire markets. Also I liked having to travel to another empire to check their markets, you had to risk the journey through mara (m00 space) to see if there was a better deal elsewhere in the universe. Escrow should be the same, limited to a regional search only, not everything (unless it already is and I didn't realise :P)
Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
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Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2004.03.22 16:20:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Xavier Arron on 22/03/2004 16:23:51
If you want to encourage peeps out into 0.0 then put more content out there and stuff to do other than just mining high end ores.
Travelling takes frickin ages as it is, and I donÆt want to spend 1 -2 hrs per night just travelling. A 7 hop trip takes like 15mins and considering there is absolutely nothing to do while travelling is it any wonder why so many peeps travel afk and go and watch the TV.
Long live capitalism, free markets and global trade. Global markets encourage more competition, and therefore better prices and service. Regional markets / internal markets achieve significantly less economic growth, hence why china and many other countries are opening their markets up (shallow treatment of the issue I know). Problems with manufacturing in game need to be addressed, but nerfing the highways is not the solution. As with everything itÆs a mater of waiting for CCP to get the time to improve that part of the game. Many improvements to this area are coming in with Tech 2 and Tech 3. Hopefully corp branding and item research will come soon after.
Peeps talk about exploring but to be honest there really isnÆt that much to see? More content is needed definitely, but nerfing the highways to achieve ôadventureö I really think the novelty will ware off quick.
The current empires have expanded to claim territory, and current boarders represent old battle lines. Nations recognise that global trade is in everyoneÆs best interest and therefore would take measures to improve transport links between the empires. Hence why in real life all capital cities have large international airports / docks. They are hubs and typically have good transport links to the rest of the country as well.
I would like to see more 0.0 regions opened up, maybe Jove space with some suitable role play story. Maybe even add a new region / race on the outskirts of 0.0. There is the potential for a great deal of player content. Mysterious goings on in 0.0, strange ships lurking, the chance to explore and find new alien tech etcà Jump drives will be cool when they come in (soonÖ). They will give peeps more incentive to venture out into 0.0 as the current æperceptionÆ is that there is no way into 0.0 with out having to go through gates heavily camped by pirates.
If anything needs nerfing itÆs the all powerful map that shows the location of every pilot in EVE. It gives away pirate gank points and deters peeps from even trying to go into 0.0, in the same breath penalises those they do venture out into 0.0, by clearly showing exactly where they are. Nerf the show all pilots option in the map, and add skills and modules to allow pirates / pvpers to more easily track peeps. Modules such as a warp analyser to allow you to ôhunt / trackö other peeps down would be good. Anyone who played Elite 2 will know what IÆm talking about. Basically every time you warp you leave a small warp cloud which persists for several minutes. The warp analyser module would take say 30 secs to calculate the point where the ship exited and thus the player can warp to that point. Would make for some interesting chases :)
I have posted in detail in other threads on many of the issues / ideas raised here.
Just my few ISKÆs worth :)
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 16:29:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Just my few ISK’s worth :)
Tell me how many, I'll make sure you get a refund.
:/
We can not have a story if all the Empires are the same.
Who cares if global trade is good in real-life? It has ruined Eve and needs to be fixed.
Oh, and what about embargos, taxation / duty, black markets, smuggling? They all work in real-life because there ISN'T a global market.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
s0cks
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Posted - 2004.03.22 16:35:00 -
[58]
Remove the highways.
Before the highways every region felt different. It was great... gave the universe a sense of giagantic preportions. Now every part of highsec space feels just the same.
And 6 sentries at a gate is just over the top. It reminds me of games like C&C where you just put hundreds of base defenses around your base - looked so unrealistic and noobish.
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BoBoZoBo
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Posted - 2004.03.22 18:03:00 -
[59]
Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 22/03/2004 18:46:49
Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 22/03/2004 18:40:19
OMG PLEASE leave in the highways, for those of us who have a life and do not have 12/hrs a day to spare playing this wonderful game and meandering aimlessly around the systems.
5,000 systems and you are having too easy of a time exploring?! Get out of the house more!!
Granted CCP need to work on exploration elements, but removal of highways is NOT going to solve your boredom with looking at systems. You will just be back her 3 months from now complaining again.
Highways are no good for trade!?!
Guess all thos developed countries that spent billions on highways to facilitate trade must be out of it.
There is no reason to COMPLETELY get rid of highways, just fix it up
Tolls are a good direction...mass or cargo based is reasonable and smart
Maybe even removing some key nodes, but not all of them
Please...
Save some eve for the hard workers!!!!
We cannot afford to waste (more) time
=========================
Operator 9 |
Chelsea rorec
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Posted - 2004.03.22 19:08:00 -
[60]
what everybody isn't realising is that if for example a country cut all ties to other countrys it soon dies because theres no trade.. same thing would happen if the highways were removed and each empire surrounded by 0.0 space..nobody would leave..nobody would risk trade ..new people would be stuck in one empire..prices would sky rocket coz lets face it people are stupid and greedy when it comes to equipment prices.
So sure go ahead tear down the highways and lets see eve implode.
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