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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:22:00 -
[1]
The highway gates have removed the sense of exploration from Eve.
Those of us who were playing before thier introduction remember the feeling of exploration as u travelled from one side of the universe to another, the sight of a space station design you hadnt seen before etc.
Thoughts and opinions please...
"Men are going to die..
and im going to kill them". |
cashman
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:25:00 -
[2]
Been discussed 38 times already, not gonna happend. 
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:26:00 -
[3]
This is Meddling 1 to Flacid 2 check your spelling.
Convert Stations
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Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:26:00 -
[4]
The highway gates should never have been put in.
However, it's far, far to late to remove them. The entire economy of Eve is built around them. To remove them wouldn't just restructure the economy but severely damage it.
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My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Teelmaster
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:26:00 -
[5]
end yourself?
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:27:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
end yourself?
grow up pls.
"Men are going to die..
and im going to kill them". |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:30:00 -
[7]
How about more interesting things in deep space other than better asteroids? :/
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:30:00 -
[8]
It's practicly a lost cause. THe higways are the biggest mistake in eve ever.
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Zarthan
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:30:00 -
[9]
Current incarnation they are to helpful, but come the CCP tolls they will be less useful making trade a bit more regional again for your smaller traders. As hellmar put it...
Quote:
Hellmar > toll gate: "wow where are you taking that city sized ore suck, to Yulai!!!, well that will cost you xxxxxxxxxxx isk"
So a solution is on the horizon you just have to wait.
_______________________________________________________
Get custom sigs and graphics done here
Unforgivn Website
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Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:34:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ronyo Dae'Loki on 22/03/2004 01:41:03
Quote:
How about more interesting things in deep space other than better asteroids? :/
Agreed. More claimable stations maybe?
I don't think there are enough... they provide much better "battlegrounds" than gates do.
Make some of them have better services too, so they are more valuble and thus more important to protect.
EDIT: Actually, now that I think of it, I'm not sure more claimable stations would do that. They'd all mostly be taken by various alliances. Although if there were enough in places like the Syndicate I suppose individual (non-alliance) corps might hold them.
However I'm better we'll have to wait for Shiva and the outposts for something like that.
On to the original question... hmm... I dunno how to make 0.0 more attractive.
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My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Robotek Hybrid
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:38:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Robotek Hybrid on 22/03/2004 01:39:22
Quote:
The highway gates have removed the sense of exploration from Eve.
Those of us who were playing before thier introduction remember the feeling of exploration as u travelled from one side of the universe to another, the sight of a space station design you hadnt seen before etc.
Thoughts and opinions please...
I agree totally. This will not only improve exploration but the market as well.
*The following is a qoute by me from another thread and it is too long for me to retype so I am copying and pasting*
Quote:
1.When will the superhighways that Link the region's main systems together be taken out so that the market works better?
point A:The richer individuals wouldn't be able to advertise and sell in every main region maybe 2 or 3 thus allowing more people to sell items at standard prices without so much undercutting of the price.
2.Will the empires ever divide their borders so that there are 0.0 systems between them or make PvP in the .1 and .2 systems so that there is risk of leaving that region or empire keeping more sellers away from selling in so many regions.
point A: player a wantes to sell ships in region b as well as in this region ( region a ), but he heard there was a player pirate around those regions and he isn't sure if its worth going to another regioin with his bps to sell there.( his choices are to stay in his current area or take the risk and go to the other region with his BP's)
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:40:00 -
[12]
Rogue drones that eat the claimable stations and the smuggler gates.
Convert Stations
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Zarthan
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:41:00 -
[13]
Quote:
How about more interesting things in deep space other than better asteroids? :/
if they put the dugeons in 0.0 then there u go : )
_______________________________________________________
Get custom sigs and graphics done here
Unforgivn Website
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:43:00 -
[14]
OMG ... player owned stations at gates - Babylon 5 style.
DO IT NOW CCP.
"Men are going to die..
and im going to kill them". |
Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.03.22 01:44:00 -
[15]
Quote:
OMG ... player owned stations at gates - Babylon 5 style.
DO IT NOW CCP.
Awesome.
That'd actually kinda rock.
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My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.22 02:22:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Been discussed 38 times already, not gonna happend.
Actually i think you will find it IS going to happen. (To a degree)
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Mindseamstress
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Posted - 2004.03.22 03:09:00 -
[17]
The highways need to be removed or their use needs to be tolled. Moreso, it should be impossible to pass from one empire to another without traversing 0.0. Each empire should be a standalone economy and actually pulling off transporting minerals or items from one empire to the other should be hard, risky, but rewarding.
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NeoMorph
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Posted - 2004.03.22 03:30:00 -
[18]
I doubt the highways are going to be removed... why do I think that? Well because instead of removing them they ADDED the smugglers gates which have caused more ways around the galaxy.
I still like the links myself as do all the rest of the 0.0 people. Reason being that I dont want to spend 5 hours getting back to empire when I need to.
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<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.03.22 04:04:00 -
[19]
Yay highways again!
Remove them. Anyone who moans about distance..
1. Why do you feel it's your divine right to go right across the galaxy with no effort.
2. Why have 5000+ systems and then reduce them to a homogenous lump the logical size of one region using highways?
Removing them would also allow local market characteristics to develop...like wow, v-v-v-variety..shurley shome mishtake!
WRT the capturable stations. Why did they make out they'd be hidden and would have to be found...then tell everyone exactly where they were?
1. Opportunities for the explorer profession..out the window!
2. Opportunities for secret bases..out the window.
3. Opportunities for any corp that isn't 24/7 and ginormous..out the window!
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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2004.03.22 04:12:00 -
[20]
Eve has got less and less buggy since beta but damn its got less fun too. CCP have done a great job but thier pandering to the masses rather than sticking to thier guns and making eve the brutal tough place it was before. Get rid of the highway! Make eve dangerous and risky again! Folk are getting bored because they're getting fat and rich with no chalenge!
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.03.22 04:52:00 -
[21]
Imagine the implications of this:
Conquerable stations on gates that toll. Controlling the gate station means controlling the gate itself and collecting the tolls.
This will open up a lot of opportunities for fighting and conquest.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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cashman
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Posted - 2004.03.22 04:56:00 -
[22]
Quote:
The highways need to be removed or their use needs to be tolled. Moreso, it should be impossible to pass from one empire to another without traversing 0.0. Each empire should be a standalone economy and actually pulling off transporting minerals or items from one empire to the other should be hard, risky, but rewarding.
Carebear
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Valrandir
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Posted - 2004.03.22 05:28:00 -
[23]
Petition : Remove the highway gates !
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Adriana
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Posted - 2004.03.22 05:53:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Adriana on 22/03/2004 05:56:26
Leave the gates alone. The only people that benefit from gate removal are the gate gankers. The vast majority of people find them useful, and use them (through high sec systems) as a way to get around, and avoid the griefers. This doesn't always work, but for the most part does. Placing a high toll on them won't do anything other than stifle trade, and make things more difficult for the majority of people.
It is also interesting to note that the person writing this post is a pirate, and those agreeing with him seem to be pirates. As such, I find his "exploration" reasoning to be suspect. This is not about promoting exploration, it's about making it easier to grief again.
Of course the griefers will love it if they are removed. They always love it. They would love even more those 0.0 bottlenecks between empires.
Yeah, thats what we need, make a single 0.0 in between each of the empires. you can't go through them any other way, just that one single gate...there won't be any griefing there...nope.
One more thing. The job of a government is to secure trade routes and protect it's borders (not necessarily in that order). The free flow of goods is good for everyone economically. Putting high tax rates on goods passing through gates won't do anything but hurt the economy. The "smugglers gates" might be a nice work around though, provided they are done right. If they are uncampable, high sec gates, maybe even if they require a few extra jumps (not 30 a piece though) they might be a workaround. This might give some usefullness to the blackmarket skill.
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.03.22 05:56:00 -
[25]
can we get a dozen or so of those sentry guns removed, i swear there's so many around the gates now i can't see the gate half the time.
what's next, the carebear formation of sentry guns like that one pic? that pic is hilarious yet so very accurate.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Baun
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Posted - 2004.03.22 06:07:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Baun on 22/03/2004 06:08:56
Unless the gates are removed AND a 0.0 buffer zone is introduced the removal of the gates would just be an annoyance slowing down game play rather than a truly meaningful change. Large corporations would still be able to sell in all the regions they wanted to (although perhaps only in mods, not ships) and people would still be able to move around empire space risk free, it would just take a lot longer.
I understand the desire to make the different empires distinct and more meaningful, but with the current sentry guns and uber (although very stupid) Concord, i think that simply removing the gates amounts to more of an annoying increase in travel time rather than a fundamental gameplay change. I do, however, suppose that one could call an increase in travel time a fundamental change, its just not a change that I see accomplishing anything possitive.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Nikolai Reidar
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Posted - 2004.03.22 06:09:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Imagine the implications of this:
Conquerable stations on gates that toll. Controlling the gate station means controlling the gate itself and collecting the tolls.
This will open up a lot of opportunities for fighting and conquest.
I like this. A better idea, of course, would be to actually build your own stargate systems, and toll those (e.g., an instajump stargate between CA and FA space :D) they'd have to save a lot of time to be worth paying for it, but that's an interesting possibility.
:. http://eve.lividandgifted.com (In-game)
:. ph33r my HORNETS OF D00M!!!!111 |
Joebob McSkittle
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Posted - 2004.03.22 06:37:00 -
[28]
Why would people want the game to be more tedious and annoying?
Also, why would people want the markets to be thrown away? Removing the highway systems is a horrid idea. It will seperate players, make inter-race trade, difficult and more expensive, and the prices will probably rise, since there is less availability. Great for the people selling, but bad for the buyers.
The majority of people that seem to want the highway systems removed are pirates, that want players to shoot at. Your almost saying: "get rid of the interstates in the US, and put a bunch of people in-between states, with big guns, and that will make the US' economy much better!"
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nails
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Posted - 2004.03.22 06:43:00 -
[29]
I personally hate the highway system. I vote for it to be removed from the game.
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http://ota-corps.otaku.jp -- Anime l33t level
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Pitt
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Posted - 2004.03.22 07:20:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Pitt on 22/03/2004 07:25:32
Yep, the highway's were the biggest mistake ccp have made. I would like to see each empire seperated in some way. It would accomplish a few things.
1) Trading would once again exist, moving nox from the Ammar empire to Minmatar would be profitable.
2) Encourage some type of RP. Newer players may stay in their original empire and find some sense of game identity(sp?, it's late)
3) If seperated by .0 to .1/.2 systems, piracy (real piracy) would have a place in eve.
4) It would make eve feel as large as it once did, yes I do remember that time.
I would also like to see more way's into .0 deep space. But that's another topic. 
edit: wouldn't want the empires to have a bottle neck approach. make it more like a spiderweb so to speak.
Lack of preparation on your part does not constitute greifing on mine |
Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2004.03.22 07:35:00 -
[31]
I can¦t follow the argument that only pirates want the Highway removed ...
My Corp produces and trades - and I would really love to see the highway burn.
Once a week I¦d fill my Iteron Mark V with a ****load of Missiles and Drones we produced to do a 2 hour flight into another Empire - My Corpmates will have to escort me for security reasons because space between the empires is unsecure - we will have a risk - but when getting through we will have a nice reward.
Don¦t you see that taking away the luxury of the Super-Highway might spice up the Game ?
Soo many are moaning for new content, nothing left to do in the game ¦n stuff - but still there is crying if possibilities to make the game more interesting are discussed ...
I remember the time before the Highway system - if i planned to buy something new i spent an evening checking prices in 3 regions ... now i¦m able to check prices in 9 regions within 30 minutes ...
before the highway system it was possible to retail playercrafted Items between regions - I made a nice profit buying MWDs in Verge Vendor and selling them in Placid with a nice markup .. nowadays this is a story of the good old times ...
realize that taking away the highway brings chances with the risk - and those willing to take the chances and succeed could have a nice reward.
Conclusion:
Remove or heavily toll the Highway
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GodEmperor
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Posted - 2004.03.22 07:40:00 -
[32]
it already takes too damn long to go anywhere now...the gates r great..infact they need more to the .0 sectors that r guarded so the lazy pirates would have to actually work to make money and not just sit at one spot....
..another idea is to have limited jump drives that would let u bypass the gates that r being camped....0 space would be more accessable then and hellmar would be happy cause more ppl would go to low sec sectors to mine 
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.03.22 09:47:00 -
[33]
Quote:
CCP have done a great job but thier pandering to the masses rather than sticking to thier guns.... Folk are getting bored ...
Firstly, contradictory statements. If CCP *are* pandering to the masses, then the masses are *not* getting bored.
Secondly, what the hell else did you expect them to do? They have to make M-O-N-E-Y, and they can't do that by changing the game so that you like it and nobody else does, unless you're willing to pay $250,000 a month to play it.
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:18:00 -
[34]
Quote:
it already takes too damn long to go anywhere now...the gates r great..infact they need more to the .0 sectors that r guarded so the lazy pirates would have to actually work to make money and not just sit at one spot....
..another idea is to have limited jump drives that would let u bypass the gates that r being camped....0 space would be more accessable then and hellmar would be happy cause more ppl would go to low sec sectors to mine
no, wait...
.
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:37:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Avon on 22/03/2004 10:38:38
Quote:
Firstly, contradictory statements. If CCP *are* pandering to the masses, then the masses are *not* getting bored.
The masses want to be bored.
They want to mine with no risk.
They want to trade with no risk.
They want to profit with no risk.
I say kill 'em all.
Eve is about risk vs isk.
The highways must burn.
Regional trade should florish.
Trade between regions should be profitable (very), and risky (very).
The only way to do this without getting rid of the highways is to get each empire to tax foreign imports - then smugglers can risk the wrath of the authorities for avoiding the tax, but expect a nice big payout if they pull it off.
Personally I think the empires should be seperate, there should be border zones. There should be piracy and smuggling between empires.
Carebears can stay in their own empire and scrape a living, the brave can seize the opportunities and make a killing, or die trying.
Result. Race choices mean something. Roles can be played. People can profit in more ways from risk taking, and the namby pamby little whiners can float around all day in their own empire moaning until they grow a pair.
Perfect.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:41:00 -
[36]
Edited by: DB Preacher on 22/03/2004 10:43:45
oh my god.
Did everyone wake up and forget to take their sense with them into work?
Until Jumpdrives or the interbus are in the game, shut up about the highways.
And for those who are telling people to shut up about the distance you need to travel. I'll say one thing to you. Go take a trip to farthest 0.0 space. Then do it everyday. Then stfu.
Without the highways, you are removing MY business away from me, and the rest of the pirate hunters/bounty hunters/mercenaries in the game.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:49:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Avon on 22/03/2004 10:50:44
Er, bounty hunters jobs would be easier.
Almost all the pirates would be in the border zones between empires.
Flying an ultra secure route from the capitals of each empire in 0 time is stupid. Imagine a Washington / Moscow insta-jump superhighway during the cold war. Neither side would have allowed it unless they controlled it. The (inter-empire) highways must die. I don't care if you can jump anywhere within each empire in just a couple of hops, but routes between empires should be risky and involve a little more time / effort.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:53:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Edited by: Avon on 22/03/2004 10:50:44
Er, bounty hunters jobs would be easier.
Almost all the pirates would be in the border zones between empires.
Flying an ultra secure route from the capitals of each empire in 0 time is stupid. Imagine a Washington / Moscow insta-jump superhighway during the cold war. Neither side would have allowed it unless they controlled it. The (inter-empire) highways must die. I don't care if you can jump anywhere within each empire in just a couple of hops, but routes between empires should be risky and involve a little more time / effort.
I didn't say it would be more difficult, I said you were removing business away from me.
Corp A wants me to attack Corp B.
Corp B is in Tash Murkon, I have just finished a merc contract in Lonetrek.
I could spend 2 weeks moving all RKK stuff down since I only play a few hours an evening or I could turn down the contract and try to find some business in the surrounding areas.
*ace*
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Nelix Trist
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:53:00 -
[39]
When is shiva comming?
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Bad A*s Pilot / Rank 5 / SP: 1,000,000 of 1,300,000 |
Jexter
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Posted - 2004.03.22 10:57:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Jexter on 22/03/2004 11:03:25
As the playerbase increases, the Highways are less needed. I believe that one reason why they were put into place was that players were too scattered around, making the regional markets too little and forcing pilots to travel long distances to buy what they needed.
However, the average number of players in game in any given moment has doubled since the highways were put into place. I believe that now there are enough pilots around to support regional markets in Empire Space. Traders would have a job again ferrying items from one region to another and there would be a lot of new opportunities for little specialized corporations and for the new players coming into the game. It would also be benefical from a Roleplaying point of view.
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 11:00:00 -
[41]
Not at all.
I think you are assuming it is my intention to make travel times longer, but that is not the case.
You should be able to jump around Empire space faster than you can now (a regional highway system), but you should have to fly through low or 0 sec border regions to travel between empires.
Net result is that empire - empire space is riskier, but on the whole not much slower. (Quicker to travel the empire you are in, slower to get to another empire.)
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.03.22 11:10:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Slithereen on 22/03/2004 11:12:05
"Flying an ultra secure route from the capitals of each empire in 0 time is stupid. Imagine a Washington / Moscow insta-jump superhighway during the cold war."
Imagine modern Europe then, without all the highways that currently connect all the capitals of Europe.
And we do have ultra secure instajump route from each capital to each capital. It's called air travel.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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VaderDSL
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Posted - 2004.03.22 11:14:00 -
[43]
Why not, if the highways are staying ... make them insecure?
Allow a some what limited pirate presence? I mean true it's in empire space and all, but surely they can have a special class for the highways? kind of like international waters with little or no empire protection?
That way you will HAVE to fight, or at least struggle your way through the highways, but goin through the outlying systems would be safer, however more time consuming?
Probably a dumb idea and imopssible to do, but it would give highways a meaning, we could then have pirate highway men, sticking haulers up for their cargo etc. :D
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 11:20:00 -
[44]
Quote:
And we do have ultra secure instajump route from each capital to each capital. It's called air travel.
The words of someone who doesn't fly much.
Ok, so in eve you have to dock in a station at the highway jump-gate 3hrs before you want to leave. When you get totthe other end you have to declare any goods you are importing and pay import duty. You can't take weapons through the highway, even fitted to your ship. You need a permit for every mining laser.
And you have to hope no-one has planted a bomb on your ship and it blows up mid-jump.
I guess that would be a reasonable solution, although I foresee it being slightly unpopular.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Karunel
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Posted - 2004.03.22 11:59:00 -
[45]
Personally I dislike highways. I don't see why people start with the "it only benefit gankers!!" point, when 1) Pirates =/= gankers and 2) EVE is supossed to be risky.
Also, I consider highways to be very against the spirit of EVE, in which there are 5 divided empires (or 4, as you want), not a mega conglomerate. With the highways, I have to take a look at the jumpgates to see where I am when I'm making a long trip because it's like "now you're here and hop now you are 92385289358275987235872340823897 au's away".
Finally, I know that if you had to cross the entire galaxy every day it would be a damn pain, but the whole point is that without highways, economies and corporations would surely stick much more to their own space so there would be more opportunities to act in a limited space. Now there's no point in that because you are like 1 hour from anywhere (Ok a bit more but you get my point).
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.03.22 12:00:00 -
[46]
I've flown a lot---Asia, the US and Europe---much more than you will ever realize since my family are corporate expatriates working for major trading and financing firms.
But never for one moment I believe "regional markets" and any form of protectionism is good for anyone. In Hong Kong, more than any part of the world, we have seen the greatest freedom in the exchange of goods. The result is a city wealthier alone than many countries.
Capitalism here, and as it should be in every part of the world, should be idealistically brutal and unconstrained. Everyone should compete like they are in one giant market, and evolutionary capitalism is actually much more efficient that way in the long run. No tariffs, no taxes. Pure Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand. Regionalism only protects inefficient competitors, like inefficient corporations in Japan that help contribute to an exceedingly expensive living standard and a decades old recession.
The highway forced me to compete harder against trade competitors from Gallente, Minmatar and Caldari regions, rather than just in Amarr only.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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C4w3
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Posted - 2004.03.22 12:09:00 -
[47]
How about removing Instajumps give that a skill instead and also for faster transportation in eve uni. then we wouldent need highways ;0)
jUst my 2 cent.
"If all the heroes are standing together around a strange device and begin to taunt me, I will pull out a conventional one. |
Finitos
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Posted - 2004.03.22 12:18:00 -
[48]
The highways have been in for too long to yank em out completely... i would like it but i doubt they would do that. Id say put tolls on the highway gates, tolls based on the size of the ship so that it would be insanely expensive to move anything other than frigs and maybe cruisers through them.
Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 12:28:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Avon on 22/03/2004 12:37:15
Slithereen, I think you are missing the point by so far you must be doing it on purpose.
Each empire has a DIFFERENT idealogy.
As things stand at the moment there is just one big empire, and that is wrong.
I respect your ideas on free trade, although Hong Kong's underlying black market and corruption do not make it a good example.
However, it doesn't matter if one system is inherently better than another - in Eve each empire thinks their system is best. The highway between systems dilutes and pollutes the uniqueness of the Empires. I am sure the Amarrians would like to distance itself from the evil rebellious slaves who rose up against them. I am not so sure they would do this by allowing them free, fast and unrestricted travel in and out of their empire.
Unfortunately, currently all those differences are covered up by the stupid, and needless, homogenisation of the empires - mostly due to the super-highway system.
It affects the game on so many levels; trade, roleplay, smuggling, piracy, mining, combat, industry...
We need the backstory to mean something.
We need race to mean something.
We need the Empires to mean something.
The super-highway must burn.
Oh, make factional standing mean something too.
k'thx.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Demiurge Ialdaboth
|
Posted - 2004.03.22 12:33:00 -
[50]
I believe a better way to toll the gates would be to charge an amount relative to the value of the cargo you are ferrying through.
However I opt to remove the highways.
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Chelsea rorec
|
Posted - 2004.03.22 13:05:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Edited by: Slithereen on 22/03/2004 11:12:05
"Flying an ultra secure route from the capitals of each empire in 0 time is stupid. Imagine a Washington / Moscow insta-jump superhighway during the cold war."
Imagine modern Europe then, without all the highways that currently connect all the capitals of Europe.
And we do have ultra secure instajump route from each capital to each capital. It's called air travel.
The Uk has the channel tunnel from london to paris ..WHY ?coz nobody wants to go via boat which takes 3 hrs or whatever..Flying isn't viable coz you can't take alot of frieght.
Its the same with the highways nobody wants to take all day to get to where they want to go.
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 13:39:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Its the same with the highways nobody wants to take all day to get to where they want to go.
But they expect it to be free, easy, safe, hassle free and to be able to transport anything they want.
If you wanted to smuggle stuff from the UK to France, a small private boat would be much more likely to succeed than a white van on the tunnel.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Chade Malloy
|
Posted - 2004.03.22 14:22:00 -
[53]
I don¦t wanna travell 20 freakin minutes from Amarr to Luminaire, just to put another job into the factory, because my offices are spread over the whole universe...since i "grew up" with the highways.
And i only run a small corp...imagine the mourning of the bigger ones, especally when it comes to assets-transfer.
Well...maybe there is a better solution...maybe add even the low sec. border systems between the empires, but don¦t make it from today to tomorrow, anounce it maybe a month before and then think of a fitting RP story.
Don¦t even THINK about simply deleting them from one patch to the other!
Patience wins. |
Righteous Fury
|
Posted - 2004.03.22 15:05:00 -
[54]
I agree to highway removal somewhat. It does make empire way to easy to get around, and pretty much turns it into one big gangbang of noobs with crappy items to sell.
HOWEVER -
Putting 0.0 - 0.2 between empires? Please end yourself. You've all seen how bottlenecks into regions like Syndicate, Pure Blind, Providence, Vale of the Silent, etc are camped to hell by alliances and/or pirates. The camping wouldn't be so bad if it took more than 5 people to do it properly. With low-sec between empires, noobs would be forced into staying in their 'home' unless they wanted to be ganked repeatedly by retards who have nothing better to do than sit near one gate for 6-12 hours a day and kill anything that comes through.
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KIAHicks
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Posted - 2004.03.22 15:18:00 -
[55]
Quote:
The highways need to be removed or their use needs to be tolled. Moreso, it should be impossible to pass from one empire to another without traversing 0.0. Each empire should be a standalone economy and actually pulling off transporting minerals or items from one empire to the other should be hard, risky, but rewarding.
Now that I agree with. The only time you should be able to pass between empires whilst still staying in empire space is if their allies or friends. The moment wars etc start brewing, the odd lawless area should be made so that each empire becomes an island surrounded by low sec 0.1 or 0.0 space.
Highway tolls should be quite high to make it a decision between high profit/risky travel through the 0.0 system or two to get to the next empire, or low risk/high toll/lower profit to go via the highway.
Also just travelling between highways with no cargo should be no toll for cruisers/frigates. But should be tolled for battleships with the assumption their only use is war and war is discouraged :P
That way travel between regions is harder and more risky. Regional markets should thrive and entraprenours (sp??) can setup high risk but high profit trade routes.
As it is now, the only risk is really when you travel into 0.0, which imo doesn't do much to help cultivate regional empire markets. Also I liked having to travel to another empire to check their markets, you had to risk the journey through mara (m00 space) to see if there was a better deal elsewhere in the universe. Escrow should be the same, limited to a regional search only, not everything (unless it already is and I didn't realise :P)
Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
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Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2004.03.22 16:20:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Xavier Arron on 22/03/2004 16:23:51
If you want to encourage peeps out into 0.0 then put more content out there and stuff to do other than just mining high end ores.
Travelling takes frickin ages as it is, and I donÆt want to spend 1 -2 hrs per night just travelling. A 7 hop trip takes like 15mins and considering there is absolutely nothing to do while travelling is it any wonder why so many peeps travel afk and go and watch the TV.
Long live capitalism, free markets and global trade. Global markets encourage more competition, and therefore better prices and service. Regional markets / internal markets achieve significantly less economic growth, hence why china and many other countries are opening their markets up (shallow treatment of the issue I know). Problems with manufacturing in game need to be addressed, but nerfing the highways is not the solution. As with everything itÆs a mater of waiting for CCP to get the time to improve that part of the game. Many improvements to this area are coming in with Tech 2 and Tech 3. Hopefully corp branding and item research will come soon after.
Peeps talk about exploring but to be honest there really isnÆt that much to see? More content is needed definitely, but nerfing the highways to achieve ôadventureö I really think the novelty will ware off quick.
The current empires have expanded to claim territory, and current boarders represent old battle lines. Nations recognise that global trade is in everyoneÆs best interest and therefore would take measures to improve transport links between the empires. Hence why in real life all capital cities have large international airports / docks. They are hubs and typically have good transport links to the rest of the country as well.
I would like to see more 0.0 regions opened up, maybe Jove space with some suitable role play story. Maybe even add a new region / race on the outskirts of 0.0. There is the potential for a great deal of player content. Mysterious goings on in 0.0, strange ships lurking, the chance to explore and find new alien tech etcà Jump drives will be cool when they come in (soonÖ). They will give peeps more incentive to venture out into 0.0 as the current æperceptionÆ is that there is no way into 0.0 with out having to go through gates heavily camped by pirates.
If anything needs nerfing itÆs the all powerful map that shows the location of every pilot in EVE. It gives away pirate gank points and deters peeps from even trying to go into 0.0, in the same breath penalises those they do venture out into 0.0, by clearly showing exactly where they are. Nerf the show all pilots option in the map, and add skills and modules to allow pirates / pvpers to more easily track peeps. Modules such as a warp analyser to allow you to ôhunt / trackö other peeps down would be good. Anyone who played Elite 2 will know what IÆm talking about. Basically every time you warp you leave a small warp cloud which persists for several minutes. The warp analyser module would take say 30 secs to calculate the point where the ship exited and thus the player can warp to that point. Would make for some interesting chases :)
I have posted in detail in other threads on many of the issues / ideas raised here.
Just my few ISKÆs worth :)
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.03.22 16:29:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Just my few ISK’s worth :)
Tell me how many, I'll make sure you get a refund.
:/
We can not have a story if all the Empires are the same.
Who cares if global trade is good in real-life? It has ruined Eve and needs to be fixed.
Oh, and what about embargos, taxation / duty, black markets, smuggling? They all work in real-life because there ISN'T a global market.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
s0cks
|
Posted - 2004.03.22 16:35:00 -
[58]
Remove the highways.
Before the highways every region felt different. It was great... gave the universe a sense of giagantic preportions. Now every part of highsec space feels just the same.
And 6 sentries at a gate is just over the top. It reminds me of games like C&C where you just put hundreds of base defenses around your base - looked so unrealistic and noobish.
|
BoBoZoBo
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Posted - 2004.03.22 18:03:00 -
[59]
Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 22/03/2004 18:46:49
Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 22/03/2004 18:40:19
OMG PLEASE leave in the highways, for those of us who have a life and do not have 12/hrs a day to spare playing this wonderful game and meandering aimlessly around the systems.
5,000 systems and you are having too easy of a time exploring?! Get out of the house more!!
Granted CCP need to work on exploration elements, but removal of highways is NOT going to solve your boredom with looking at systems. You will just be back her 3 months from now complaining again.
Highways are no good for trade!?!
Guess all thos developed countries that spent billions on highways to facilitate trade must be out of it.
There is no reason to COMPLETELY get rid of highways, just fix it up
Tolls are a good direction...mass or cargo based is reasonable and smart
Maybe even removing some key nodes, but not all of them
Please...
Save some eve for the hard workers!!!!
We cannot afford to waste (more) time
=========================
Operator 9 |
Chelsea rorec
|
Posted - 2004.03.22 19:08:00 -
[60]
what everybody isn't realising is that if for example a country cut all ties to other countrys it soon dies because theres no trade.. same thing would happen if the highways were removed and each empire surrounded by 0.0 space..nobody would leave..nobody would risk trade ..new people would be stuck in one empire..prices would sky rocket coz lets face it people are stupid and greedy when it comes to equipment prices.
So sure go ahead tear down the highways and lets see eve implode.
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Xavier Arron
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Posted - 2004.03.22 19:30:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Xavier Arron on 22/03/2004 19:33:48
Quote:
Avon:
We can not have a story if all the Empires are the same.
1) There should be more distinction between the empires than there currently is. However this is a game content issue and role play issue that needs to be addressed by CCP. Nerfing the highway doesnÆt magically resolve this. It just will take peeps a frickin hour of boring travelling to travel to another empire.
Quote:
Avon:
Who cares if global trade is good in real-life? It has ruined Eve and needs to be fixed.
2) The problems with EVE in relation to manufacturing are due to many issues, the main one being that EVERYONE in EVE just manufactures most of there own stuff. ThatÆs why manufacturing is dead. CCP is trying to address this with Tech 2, where they have brought in SKILLS / TOOLS / COMPONENTS to try to make manufacturing more specialised to prevent every corp just manufacturing there own stuff. It is not cost effective to make one off / small runs of Tech 2 stuff, due to the time in skill training, cost of tools etc... (Well thatÆs the theory). Hopefully in Tech 3 player owned factories will make Tech 3 even more profitable as from what I understand Tech 3 can only be produced in these factories, therefore making production on small scale for corp only use less economical than just buying off the market. More skills / deeper skill tree will force players to specialise in the manufacture of one or two items.
Quote:
Avon:
Oh, and what about embargos, taxation / duty, black markets, smuggling? They all work in real-life because there ISN'T a global market.
I donÆt know what planet you live on, but the one I live on - Earth - has a global market place. Goods and services are traded across the globe daily between hundreds of countries.
How does taking away the highways create taxation / duty / black-markets / smuggling? All these systems are mechanics that have to be added to the game; taking away the highway doesnÆt magically add these things.
I believe taxation of gates / goods is to be added by CCP, therefore creating regional variances. Black-markets and smuggling doesnÆt exist because Concorde doesnÆt check for stolen goods / illegal goods.
Quote:
Xavier Arron:
Just my few ISKÆs worth :)
Avon:
Tell me how many, I'll make sure you get a refund.
:/
100 mill will cover it nicely:)
Quote:
BoBoZoBo:
OMG PLEASE leave in the highways, for those of us who have a life and do not have 12/hrs a day to spare playing this wonderful game and meandering aimlessly around the systems.
5,000 systems and you are having too easy of a time exploring... get out of the house more11
Save some eve for the hard workers!!!!
Exactly :)
|
Nepereta
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Posted - 2004.03.22 20:58:00 -
[62]
Do not deny the people the blessing of the capitals. IE: the idea of a Center to the universe. Eve needs a center and the highways increase that feeling. Looking at the universe spatially in an age of Jump Gates is pure folly!
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Baronn Creel
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Posted - 2004.03.22 20:59:00 -
[63]
Is there a reason we can't have another network of gates which are 'large mass' or cargo-only gates? Existing gates can be retained for the smaller mass ships.
Use the cargo-only gates to stimulate the transport based economy. The actual number of systems each would jump across could be like 3 to 5 or something. Explain it as worm-hole instabilities caused by current travel, necessitating the need for the shorter jumps for large mass ships.
Non-secure 0.0 regions would have very few of these gates. Possibly, players could build more at some point. Basically, a no-secure region could have 1 major cargo route, but many non-cargo routes. Also allows pirates to prey easier, as well as clearly defines the routes which would really need to be guarded.
Lt. JG Baronn Creel Combat Support
"This is my weapon, this is my gun. This is for killing, this is for fun" |
Burga Galti
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Posted - 2004.03.22 21:50:00 -
[64]
Okay, I've been following this argument for some time now
and I would say I agree with the for side of the statement.
Why?
When I first clicked on the map in eve I had a sense of awe. I thought WOW. This game is massive! But then I discovered that in a matter of minutes I could travel between these massive empires. Yes it helped me in my time spent as a trader between the empires. I only had to travel a few jumps to make my isk. But it killed the roleplaying.
I think most roleplayers would agree that we need some 'space' between the empires. The best example that comes to mind are the wars between PIE and the minmatar freedom fighters. Each side regularly travels 2 jumps to get into each other's territory. Surely this is wrong?
Many who are against the removal of the gates seem to have 2 reasons.
1/ travel time between their assets
2/ fears of gate camping beween empires
Surely, as suggested before, this first issue could be countered by developing a better infrastructure inside each empire thus reducing travel time there.
The second issue could be addressed by the border zones being 2 or 3 systems deep, but having many entry and exit points. That would create a lot of systems which would require watching.
As for a suggestion about how this could happen:
The orbits of the Yulai stars is destablised by a passing 'rogue' star causing a shift in the resonance points. This would isolate the system for a time until new gates could be built. If CCP decide that the removal hasn't worked the gates could be 'towed' to their new locations by Concord forces remaining in the system.
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
Slithereen
|
Posted - 2004.03.23 03:05:00 -
[65]
Quote:
Edited by: Avon on 22/03/2004 12:37:15
Slithereen, I think you are missing the point by so far you must be doing it on purpose.
Each empire has a DIFFERENT idealogy.
As things stand at the moment there is just one big empire, and that is wrong.
I respect your ideas on free trade, although Hong Kong's underlying black market and corruption do not make it a good example.
HK is a good exmaple of globalization. Corruption and the black market does not distract it as being one of the top three places in the world to hold business according to most business journals.
I quite agree to the empire part. Looks like empires are being turned into one homogenous mass.
Sort of like Europe.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
|
Trooble
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Posted - 2004.03.23 03:54:00 -
[66]
Well from reading the replies, it seems people are more bothered about making their millions with easy 5 min trade travel routes within the super highways, than actually making the game more fun and realistic to the storyline, because to be honest you might as well forget the storyline totally as it makes no sense with the empires current placements.
"I dont want to spend 20hrs travelling between Amarr and Luminaire"
With regional markets actually in place, and corps filling up the demand you wont have too, you'd go to that system 3 jumps away that no one currentlty sits in at the moment.
Its ridiuclous, I went in Yulai on sunday night (8,800 players online at the time) and there was 172 people in the system, I travel 7 jumps out to a random system and there was 1 person in it, same with many other systems around the highways.
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Brother Victae
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Posted - 2004.03.23 03:56:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Brother Victae on 23/03/2004 04:05:10
Quote:
As for a suggestion about how this could happen:
The orbits of the Yulai stars is destablised by a passing 'rogue' star causing a shift in the resonance points. This would isolate the system for a time until new gates could be built. If CCP decide that the removal hasn't worked the gates could be 'towed' to their new locations by Concord forces remaining in the system.
This is a great idea Burga. CCP can give up aplenty of warning, remove the highways for a month, then review at the edn of that period. I personaly would LOVE too see the gates go, Im not interested in a free global market, Im interested in seeing the empires mean something, Im interested in there being regional and empire wide markets, Im interested in RP.
They need to remove the current highway system, and replace it with an internal one in each empire. A region should take 3-5 jumps to travel, but there SHOULD be 0.0 sec systems between the empires, however these border zones should be substantial enough that a pilot could easily avoid gate-campers.
I decided not to bother with trading when I came back to EVE this time, because it has no meaning any more. It used to be really rewarding to trade huge chunks of comodities between empires, it took a while sure, but it was worth it. These days I just dont see the point, your hardly a pan-galactic trader if you only have to make 6 jumps to get anywhere in empire space. The highways need to go.
EDIT: Oh yes, I forgot too add something. The tolling is a horrible idea, because money means nothing to some players, and everything to others. The members of large corps, or people who have been playing for a long time will have no problems, and the new players will be stuck in their own empires, with no market to support them, because all the corps will STILL try and manufacture/sell near the highway gates. Net result: bugger all.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.23 04:07:00 -
[68]
Probably going to regret this but why not?
You've all prolly seen the currently 13 page High Sec Mining Solution? Well it has another side effect:
Implementation of what essentially amounts to industrial zoning would place more distance between the manufacturing points as the items become larger (as the suggestion includes the modules along with the ships). Without affecting those that use the highways simply to travel from point a to point b.
My objection to the highways has been the effects it has on the market. The homogenization and decline of the market as too many manufacturers can easily fully supply several regions. With distance between the manufacturers, that objection is mostly nullified.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Robotek Hybrid
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Posted - 2004.03.23 04:19:00 -
[69]
Quote:
Edited by: DB Preacher on 22/03/2004 10:43:45
oh my god.
Did everyone wake up and forget to take their sense with them into work?
Until Jumpdrives or the interbus are in the game, shut up about the highways.
And for those who are telling people to shut up about the distance you need to travel. I'll say one thing to you. Go take a trip to farthest 0.0 space. Then do it everyday. Then stfu.
Without the highways, you are removing MY business away from me, and the rest of the pirate hunters/bounty hunters/mercenaries in the game.
dbp
read my post for ur last point and i usually do go really far everyday in eve try using mwd's beleive whta u may think but going 2k a sec in myt scorp without ever running out of cap make sthings REALLY fast but lets also use common sence for a moment think of EVE as an everquest game carry other iyems ull swap with l8r in ur cargo for example i carry 2 mwd's and the necesarry cap relays everywhere i go in my cargo so when i need to get somewhere fast they are right there. then when im close i dock at the closest station to my destination and slowboat it form there.
--------------------------------------------
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.03.23 04:22:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Slithereen on 23/03/2004 04:23:35
Zones between empires sounds like EVE's version of Trek's Neutral Zone.
They can be used as a potential flash point of intrigue, and maybe we can use these zones to introduce things like cross-spawns, such as Serpentis-Sansha combined groups that are already in some select systems in the game.
Like the Neutral Zone, it cannot be a pure freeplay zone like non Empire 0.0 space. This is in order to retain the distinction between the Neutral Zones and pure 0.0 space. You're still in danger of being ganked by marauding faction navy forces if you have a too low faction rating.
I certainly like to see B5 style conquerable stations next to toll gates in such zones. Conquer the station and you get to control the toll gate, and therefore the trade routes between empires.
I think CCP should plan these special zones and systems quite carefully. It has great potential to add to the flavor of the game.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
|
Robotek Hybrid
|
Posted - 2004.03.23 04:26:00 -
[71]
Quote:
I agree to highway removal somewhat. It does make empire way to easy to get around, and pretty much turns it into one big gangbang of noobs with crappy items to sell.
HOWEVER -
Putting 0.0 - 0.2 between empires? Please end yourself. You've all seen how bottlenecks into regions like Syndicate, Pure Blind, Providence, Vale of the Silent, etc are camped to hell by alliances and/or pirates. The camping wouldn't be so bad if it took more than 5 people to do it properly. With low-sec between empires, noobs would be forced into staying in their 'home' unless they wanted to be ganked repeatedly by retards who have nothing better to do than sit near one gate for 6-12 hours a day and kill anything that comes through.
not bottlenecks many systems around 10 that chain but really it would just be empire borders. kinda like customs cheks that u go thru from us to canada ...
--------------------------------------------
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2004.03.23 07:52:00 -
[72]
Good arguments on both sides.
Seems the majority are FOR removing the gates though.
So CCP, why not give notice that the gates are to undergo major maintenance work and will be down for a 1 month period, afterwhich you can poll the players opinions on the experiance.
The playerbase has spoken CCP, listen to your customers.
"Men are going to die..
and im going to kill them". |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.03.23 08:21:00 -
[73]
I'm for removing the highway system but I can always see why people want to keep it, its damn convienient.. though, I think the game would be more interesting if the empires were spaced out a bit.. would make for better gameplay, more neutral/contested zones, more avenues for pvp, more flavor for each empire, ect..
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Tsual
|
Posted - 2004.03.23 09:28:00 -
[74]
Quote:
I didn't say it would be more difficult, I said you were removing business away from me.
Corp A wants me to attack Corp B.
Corp B is in Tash Murkon, I have just finished a merc contract in Lonetrek.
I could spend 2 weeks moving all RKK stuff down since I only play a few hours an evening or I could turn down the contract and try to find some business in the surrounding areas.
*ace*
dbp
Would it be too costly for you to establish Bases of Operations in every region? *just being curious*
Or what about having independant suporters and contacts in every region?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok on the trader and travel being tendious discussion: We are missing a clean installed npc freight/luxurity good market, with offer and demand. (or did the big picture got lost for me?)
Ok to make the whole thing more interesting: Traders could subscribe or join a channel where different stations would automaticly announce:
"[Station name] at [System Position] in [Sector] is in great need of at least [ammount] of [freight/ luxurity good]"
"[Station name] at [System Position] in [Sector] has a great [ammount] of [freight/ luxurity good] on discount"
"[Station name] at [System Position] in [Sector] needs some [freight/ luxurity good]"
"[Station name] at [System Position] in [Sector] wants to get rid of some [freight/ luxurity good]"
--------------------------------------
Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life.
Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.03.23 17:01:00 -
[75]
Quote:
I don’t know what planet you live on, but the one I live on - Earth - has a global market place. Goods and services are traded across the globe daily between hundreds of countries.
Let me see where to start.
Stuff is traded around the globe.
Yup.
Factories in Korea make computer chips which are exported to Germany to be put in the engine management system of the German made BMW which is then exported to the UK where I buy it.
In Eve, I buy a Engine management chip BPC & a BMW 325i SE BPC and build it myself.
The Korean factory wouldn't sell me a blueprint.
BMW won't sell me a blue print.
The UK wouldn't be happy with me building my own to avoid import duty.
US DVD's don't work on my Region 2 DVD player, I have to buy (more expensive) European ones.
Petrol in the States is much cheaper than in the UK.
Tobacco is cheaper in mainland Europe than it is in the UK.
I can't import firearms from the US.
The problem with Eve is the lack of restriction.
Want to build an Apoc, buy a bpc, sell it to anyone.
Now look at the description of the Apoc.
Markets need to be regional.
There needs to be trading restriction. (Thus giving the chance to risk smuggling)
What we have now is a mess. What we have is Wal-Mart Eve.
Everything is bland and meaningless .... worthless.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Xavier Arron
|
Posted - 2004.03.24 14:50:00 -
[76]
Quote:
Avon:
Let me see where to start.
Stuff is traded around the globe.
Yup.
Factories in Korea make computer chips which are exported to Germany to be put in the engine management system of the German made BMW which is then exported to the UK where I buy it.
In Eve, I buy an Engine management chip BPC & a BMW 325i SE BPC and build it myself.
Exactly the point I'm trying to make!
The situation in EVE is the equivalent of home computer users making there own graphics cards or as you said making your own car.
The fact that ANYONE can build a tech 1 item is the reason the tech 1 market crashed.
Most corporations manufacture everything they need, one minute they are turning out ammo, next minute highly complex state of the art battleships.
All you have to do is relate all this to the real world (lol û not the battleship bit). Two important points you have to realise is;
1) To build an item you require the TOOLS, SKILLS and FACILITIES to build it. In the case of a car for example you need huge presses to roll the metal for the body, robots to do welding, skilled workers to fit it all together, and a huge factory to house all this in.
2) Manufactured items normally require COMPONENTS that you cannot make your self. In the case of EVE all tech 1 items are made from the same basic minerals. Going back to the car example modern day cars contain huge amounts of brought in components, e.g. nuts, bolts, electrical wiring, computer chips etc...
Now take the example in EVE of building a star-ship, especially a BS. Most corps just buy a BS bpc, mine the minerals and in 5hrs they have a shiny new battleship.
An item as complex as a BS should require a huge factory with loads of specialist TOOLS and EQUIPMENT and specialist SKILLS to make. Add on to that the time it should take to refit a factory for producing another item and you see why in the real world most companies specialise in a specific area and thus make only a few distinct products.
For example, I have never seen my local furniture shop manufacturing wooden tables one day and then manufacturing cruise missiles the next!!!
Hopefully you can now see from the above post that the devÆs are trying to address this with tech 2. Building tech 1 items from the start should of required specialist skills especially to build more complex items like ships. A detailed and long skill tree is needed, so that players who specialise in ship construction canÆt just go and make something else (un-related). The second problem that needs to be addressed is the time it takes to setup a factory for manufacture e.g. 24hrs would be good as it would penalise short or 1 off production runs. An efficiency bonus could also be given over time as problems in production are sorted out and the corp gains more experience at manufacturing that item. This would encourage further corps to keep factories geared to the manufacture of just one item / type of item.
Tech 3 will hopefully address the issue of FACILITIES as from what I have heard it will only be possible to produce all / some tech 3 items in the new player built stations / factories.
However as mentioned before its hard to make a profit on tech 1 as there is very little added value to a product. The only profit margin is the cost savings you can make in improving ME (material efficiency) of the bp, and lowering waste through skills. Ultimately To make manufacturing truly dynamic and competitive CORPORATE BRANDING and item ATTRIBUTE research really need to be implemented.
This would allow corps to invest research time on specific item blue prints and specific item attributes. The skills of the researcher plus some random value would affect the improvement in an attribute of the item so for example the range of a weapon or damage done etc. This research would add true extra value to a BPO and to the finial product, allowing a corp to go through a sort of product-cycle as it were. This allows them to constantly add value to an item, and prevents other corps from just taking market share overnight.
By also introducing CORP BRANDING all items made become stamped with the name of the corp that made them. This allows corps to distinguish them selves within the market place and along with item research, gain a reputation for producing say the best / highest performance sensor modules and perhaps another corp could be known for producing the cheapest micro warp drives etc. Even small corps could be able to find a niche in the market by specialise in perhaps one or two of the smaller components and thus still be able to compete and make a profit :)
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NeoMorph
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Posted - 2004.03.24 15:43:00 -
[77]
Quote:
Good arguments on both sides.
Seems the majority are FOR removing the gates though.
So CCP, why not give notice that the gates are to undergo major maintenance work and will be down for a 1 month period, afterwhich you can poll the players opinions on the experiance.
The playerbase has spoken CCP, listen to your customers.
Yeah... listen to your customers and DONT remove the gates.
Miz Cenuj you cant ignore the players who DONT want the gates to go... or are you another of the "head in the sand" people who just dont listen to people who have disagreed with your decision to want to force this change on the entire Eve population.
I sure as hell dont want to spend 5 hours just to move my megacyte from Fountain to the empire that's for damn sure. It currently takes me 2 hours which is more than enough time.
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<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2004.03.24 16:26:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 24/03/2004 16:27:23
I listened, the majority however are for removing the gates. Anyway I suggested a TRIAL period. Learn to read little carebear.
"Men are going to die..
and im going to kill them". |
KIAHicks
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Posted - 2004.03.24 17:09:00 -
[79]
IMO Removing the gates will mean more travel time between regions, but then that was fun in and of itself when i started playing. We would plan a day or two in advance to go on a long 40 to 50 jump trek to collect new ships which could be bought cheaper in another region. Thats never happened since as we can by ships for the same price everywhere.
Also If each empire had 10 - 15 routes to each other empire through 3 or 4 deep 0.1 space. Then this would give pirates a place to roam, not totally free to kill anything, but at least to have a small chance of catching some prey.
Sure some people will no longer leave their safe empire zone, but those will be the people who pass up the oppertunity to make more money. Those that travel between can charge more for their goods. Currently its safe to go anywhere in empire, which means the moment any high profit route is found, everyone does it. Over time the net result is that nobody has a high profit route left.
Also I would like to see warp scramblers and webifiers no longer be considered offensive actions. If I scramble someone in 0.1 to 0.4 space nothing should happen to me, but the person I scramble should be allowed to return fire without fear of sentrys (and maybe even that persons gang)
The reason? Well pirates could now stop players without taking a sec hit in high sec space. If they fire or destroy the person then concord/sentrys/sec rating applies as normal.
Why? Because then pirates may start scanning ships and demanding half your cargo. You can pay up or refuse. The pirate then has the choice to blast you and risk the sentrys and a sec hit or not. If you have nothing they may even let you go because its not worth the sec hit.
Maybe more n00bs will avoid the "ganking" style of play that is rampent, and we'd go back to the more accepted method of pirating that Space invaders did so well prior to 0.1 - 1.0 becoming safe space.
Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
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