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Ciena Centrifuge	Posted - 2008.01.14 05:07:00 - [1] I was looking through the character/timecode section seeing what kind of characters are for sale and noticed lots of people selling 9x 90 day codes, 20 x 30 day codes etc.... These guys are spending well over 300 bucks a pop to buy isk from CCP. Why does CCP find it a crime to buy isk from some internet site that's not labeled ccp but turn around and sell it theirselves? Greed maybe. Anyone else find the selling of GTC's disapointing?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.14 05:10:00 - [2] Edited by: MotherMoon on 14/01/2008 05:22:20 Edited by: MotherMoon on 14/01/2008 05:15:03 isk selling happens no matter what in anything unless eve was real and not on a computer. I can go up to my friend in school and tell him that if he buys me lunch I'll give him 30 mil you can stop me no one can stop me. It's lame yes but, the issue of people getting ahead with real life cash and the issue of Isk sellers are two different things. With isk sellers you get three issues A.People can buy in game money with real life money and get an advantage using out of game income. B.Isk sellers infuse the economy with isk that wouldn't exist if there was no demand C.People that didn't make eve make money off someone elses proterity and no oe can stop it. With GCT you get 1 issue A.People can buy in game money with real life money and get an advantage using out of game income. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.14 05:25:00 - [3] CCP sells timecode to player who in turn sells it ingame for isk = $$$ in CCPs bank account. Isk seller sells isk to player = $$$ in the isk sellers bank account. Does it really need any further explanation? Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Ralek Talen Gallente Dark Industries	Posted - 2008.01.14 05:34:00 - [4] Also some people have more real life money then time, time to play a game that is and making isk in EVE takes time. ------------------------------------- Just your regular EVE forum addiction *****.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.14 05:37:00 - [5] Originally by: MotherMoon B.Isk sellers infuse the economy with isk that wouldn't exist if there was no demand The importance of this point cannot be overstated. The GTC trade does not increase the amount of ISK injected into the economy, since it's between normal players. Farmers, despite making a up a small percentage of total accounts, are actually responsible for the majority of inflationary pressure in the EVE economy. Why, you ask? Let's assume that the average player spends 3 hours a day performing activities that generate ISK, primarily Mission Running or Ratting. ISK farmers do this 23/7, so each ISK Farmer injects eight times as much ISK into the economy as a normal player. This means that even if 5% of EVE accounts are ISK farmers, they are responsible for over 40% of EVE's inflationary pressure. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.14 05:46:00 - [6] True enough but when was the last time you opened the market and couldn't afford what you wanted to buy. In lots even. Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.01.14 05:54:00 - [7] ISK Sellers: A outside entity that attempts to make RL money by abusing what others have created. Parasites comes to mind. All transactions with ISK sellers is outside the game and outside the EvE community. GTC Sellers: People with more RL money than time to play use RL money to allow them to play the game at a level that would them require to spend more time playing actively otherwise. GTC Buyers: People with more time to play the game than they have RL money spend active playing time to earn ISK so that they can play the game which they could otherwise not afford to play. Anyone who cannot grasp the difference between ISK sellers and GTC transactions should stop voicing their shallow opinions and exercise their right to STFU.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.14 06:01:00 - [8] isk creation causes deflation. because there is more isk less stuff means everything cost less right? I'm confused I think :P pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.14 06:39:00 - [9] Originally by: MotherMoon isk creation causes deflation. because there is more isk less stuff means everything cost less right? I'm confused I think :P Definately confused. ISK Creation = More total ISK in the economy, i.e. inflation. This means that the cost of items increases, and each individual unit of ISK buys you less. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.14 06:49:00 - [10] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: MotherMoon isk creation causes deflation. because there is more isk less stuff means everything cost less right? I'm confused I think :P Definately confused. ISK Creation = More total ISK in the economy, i.e. inflation. This means that the cost of items increases, and each individual unit of ISK buys you less. duh the old woodcutting thing. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P

Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.14 06:53:00 - [11] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: MotherMoon isk creation causes deflation. because there is more isk less stuff means everything cost less right? I'm confused I think :P Definately confused. ISK Creation = More total ISK in the economy, i.e. inflation. This means that the cost of items increases, and each individual unit of ISK buys you less. duh the old woodcutting thing. Now I'm confused. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.14 06:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: MotherMoon isk creation causes deflation. because there is more isk less stuff means everything cost less right? I'm confused I think :P Definately confused. ISK Creation = More total ISK in the economy, i.e. inflation. This means that the cost of items increases, and each individual unit of ISK buys you less. duh the old woodcutting thing. Now I'm confused. man cuts down trees and sells to a place that processes it for 5$ a tree process plant sells to a home builder for twice the amount so they can make some money. house builder builds house and sells for 20$ man that cuts wood needs to up his price so he can afford house. and so on. and then add in stuff like robots take over wood cutters job robots take over wood processing job. yes slowly the real world is turning to macros. lol. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.14 07:01:00 - [13] Originally by: MotherMoon man cuts down trees and sells to a place that processes it for 5$ a tree process plant sells to a home builder for twice the amount so they can make some money. house builder builds house and sells for 20$ man that cuts wood needs to up his price so he can afford house. and so on. and then add in stuff like robots take over wood cutters job robots take over wood processing job. yes slowly the real world is turning to macros. lol. Go to bed. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.14 07:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: MotherMoon man cuts down trees and sells to a place that processes it for 5$ a tree process plant sells to a home builder for twice the amount so they can make some money. house builder builds house and sells for 20$ man that cuts wood needs to up his price so he can afford house. and so on. and then add in stuff like robots take over wood cutters job robots take over wood processing job. yes slowly the real world is turning to macros. lol. Go to bed. heh. I think I would have prefered to stay confused. Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Jeremy Paxman Special Doc	Posted - 2008.01.14 07:07:00 - [15] WTB wood -------------------- "this", quoth he, and lo, he was down.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.14 07:10:00 - [16] Originally by: Jeremy Paxman WTB wood ok yeah time to go to bed. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Phoenix Wing	Posted - 2008.01.14 08:00:00 - [17] There is no inflation in EVE according to the good doctor. ---
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2008.01.14 08:02:00 - [18] If I couldn't buy GTCs with ISK my accounts would not be active. ^^^--- this is pretty much gonna be why CCP doesn't get rid of it.
Leora Nomen Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.14 08:39:00 - [19] Edited by: Leora Nomen on 14/01/2008 08:39:57 There are a lot of things in EVE that aren't fair and can't really be fixed to be made fair. The GTC sales are a lesser evil solution to the whole RMT thing in EVE. CCP gets more accounts active, some players get to play for free, and the guy who would buy ISK anyhow does so in approved way and has his peace of mind that the faction fitted navy raven he basically bought with real money isn't going do disappear tomorrow from his hangar. And in the end if a GTC seller loses his ISK it still hurts him, just in real life because he has to buy GTCs again. Originally by: Big Al If I couldn't buy GTCs with ISK my accounts would not be active. ^^^--- this is pretty much gonna be why CCP doesn't get rid of it. nice sig guide to game time codes
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Spaceways	Posted - 2008.01.14 08:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Ciena Centrifuge Why does CCP find it a crime to buy isk from some internet site that's not labeled ccp but turn around and sell it theirselves? Where are you from? Cuba?

McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.01.14 08:47:00 - [21] Edited by: McDonALTs on 14/01/2008 08:48:28 Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: MotherMoon isk creation causes deflation. because there is more isk less stuff means everything cost less right? I'm confused I think :P Definately confused. ISK Creation = More total ISK in the economy, i.e. inflation. This means that the cost of items increases, and each individual unit of ISK buys you less. duh the old woodcutting thing. Now I'm confused. man cuts down trees and sells to a place that processes it for 5$ a tree process plant sells to a home builder for twice the amount so they can make some money. house builder builds house and sells for 20$ man that cuts wood needs to up his price so he can afford house. and so on. and then add in stuff like robots take over wood cutters job robots take over wood processing job. yes slowly the real world is turning to macros. lol. Man is not getting his $5 tree back. he is getting a $20 house. Insted of 4 men making $5 tree each, you have different men doing different jobs and thus need to be compensated. Infltion in Real life is due to intrest forcing new money to be created via loans. There is no intrest in eve, so the economy can never bankrupt itself. Insurance means prices will never be over the moon for some items. Recycling shuttles if trit hits over 3.2isk/unit = free profit, and the same is true with other items. So prices are fixed in eve within boundrys
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.14 10:03:00 - [22] Originally by: Abrazzar ISK Sellers: A outside entity that attempts to make RL money by abusing what others have created. Parasites comes to mind. All transactions with ISK sellers is outside the game and outside the EvE community. GTC Sellers: People with more RL money than time to play use RL money to allow them to play the game at a level that would them require to spend more time playing actively otherwise. GTC Buyers: People with more time to play the game than they have RL money spend active playing time to earn ISK so that they can play the game which they could otherwise not afford to play. Anyone who cannot grasp the difference between ISK sellers and GTC transactions should stop voicing their shallow opinions and exercise their right to STFU. Another idiot who resorts to being rude when he finds that he cannot argue logically. There is no difference between ISK sellers and GTC buyers, both spend a lot of time to play the game and earn the ISK ingame. The only difference between legal and illegal ISK buyers is that the former pay more for ISK to avoid the risk that the latter have. Pretty much all ISK sellers are also GTC buyers by the way. They only farm even more than they'd need to pay for their game time in order to feed their kids or whatever. Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.
Cruthensis Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.01.14 10:13:00 - [23] Edited by: Cruthensis on 14/01/2008 10:13:02 There is indeed a big difference: The pool of ISK available for sale to GTC sellers will always be limited as the people gathering the ISK are actually playing the game for pleasure not profit. There are only so many GTCs a committed player would want or be able to purchase with their ISK. The pool of ISK available through ISK sellers is almost without practical limit. If demand increases, their ISK farming increases to fill the orders. The ISK generated in this way is not ISK that would be 'in the economy anyway'. It is being generated explicitly for the purpose of RMT and in response to 'players' who place buy orders for ISK. Every time someone places an order to buy ISK, they are implicitly saying "Oh and please screw up the Eve economy a bit more". Stop doing it. 1. Buy Vexor 2. Fit for Gank 3. Suicide ISK farmer 4. Grind sec 5. see 1.
Tamia Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.01.14 10:19:00 - [24] Originally by: McDonALTs Recycling shuttles if trit hits over 3.2isk/unit = free profit, and the same is true with other items. So prices are fixed in eve within boundrys I was under the idea that our CCP economist was trying to REMOVE those boundries. Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.01.14 10:50:00 - [25] A quick look around the various isk seller websites indicates that their prices have risen in line with gtc sellers prices. This is why gtc sales are allowed, last year $5 would buy you billions, now people are boasting at selling 100M for $5.95 This indicates the policy is working. If the same amount of rl money is being spent on isk then there is a small fraction as much bought isk in the game. ---- Anything less is wasted effort
Torlin Valric Minmatar Soliders Of Eve The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.14 11:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Ciena Centrifuge Anyone else find the selling of GTC's disapointing? No. I would have stopped playing a long time ago if buying gtc for isk wasn't possible. [IMAGE REMOVED]
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.14 12:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Adonis 4174 A quick look around the various isk seller websites indicates that their prices have risen in line with gtc sellers prices. This is why gtc sales are allowed, last year $5 would buy you billions, now people are boasting at selling 100M for $5.95 Absolute rubbish...so typical of this forum now.
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.14 12:26:00 - [28] GTC/ISK trades are merely an exchange of ISK from one player to another. No extra ISK is injected into the economy, and indeed, the only monetary difference is that one person pays for part of another person's subscription. Farmers don't play the game; they work it. They make as much ISK as possible by any means necessary and available to them, 23/7, on multiple computers in sweatshops (or wherever), with the sole intent of selling every bit of ISK earned for IRL money, without paying any of that IRL money to CCP. GTC trades are 90% harmless. ISK sellers and buyers are 90% harmful.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.14 12:33:00 - [29] Edited by: Estephania on 14/01/2008 12:34:26 Ppl will buy advantage in game by their RL cash no matter what you do. From the outsiders' point of view, there's no difference at all between GTCs and ISK sellers, both allow ppl to get in-game currency with out of game means. CCP simply cashes in with the GTCs and some sweatshop owners are cashing in on illegal ISK selling.
XY55XTY Amarr The Fizzy Drink Corp	Posted - 2008.01.14 12:43:00 - [30] Yet another GTC for Isk thread! Run for the hills!!!!!

Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.14 12:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Ciena Centrifuge I was looking through the character/timecode section seeing what kind of characters are for sale and noticed lots of people selling 9x 90 day codes, 20 x 30 day codes etc.... These guys are spending well over 300 bucks a pop to buy isk from CCP. Why does CCP find it a crime to buy isk from some internet site that's not labeled ccp but turn around and sell it theirselves? Greed maybe. Anyone else find the selling of GTC's disapointing? I dunno. Would you find it a crime if I sold your car, yet you'd feel perfectly entitled to sell it yourself? PS If not PM me with license plate details pls. More seriously, they're NOT buying ISK from CCP. CCP create no new ISK and do not receive money for ISK. They're paying CCP for game time. They're "buying" ISK from other players. It may seem like a small difference but it's a bit like the difference between paying someone to work for you and buying a slave. In both cases, you're exchanging your money to get labour, but where the money goes makes all the difference to the acceptability of the transaction. And finally: this is like the 5000th thread whining about GTC for ISK. Have you at least read the most recent ones? All the issues were covered pretty thoroughly in those. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.14 12:47:00 - [32] Originally by: Estephania Edited by: Estephania on 14/01/2008 12:34:26 Ppl will buy advantage in game by their RL cash no matter what you do. From the outsiders' point of view, there's no difference at all between GTCs and ISK sellers, both allow ppl to get in-game currency with out of game means. CCP simply cashes in with the GTCs and some sweatshop owners are cashing in on illegal ISK selling. Don't forget that the GTC system at least allows players to play for free. I recall you being quite concerned about people who don't earn thousands of euros a week, so this aspect should appeal to you. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.14 12:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: MotherMoon B.Isk sellers infuse the economy with isk that wouldn't exist if there was no demand The importance of this point cannot be overstated. The GTC trade does not increase the amount of ISK injected into the economy, since it's between normal players. Farmers, despite making a up a small percentage of total accounts, are actually responsible for the majority of inflationary pressure in the EVE economy. Why, you ask? Let's assume that the average player spends 3 hours a day performing activities that generate ISK, primarily Mission Running or Ratting. ISK farmers do this 23/7, so each ISK Farmer injects eight times as much ISK into the economy as a normal player. This means that even if 5% of EVE accounts are ISK farmers, they are responsible for over 40% of EVE's inflationary pressure. I think the isk farmers are way less than 5% of the playerbase, as they need afairly large pool of buyers to get a profit. On the other hand they have a proportionally larger effect than the x8 isk production of your example. As the buyer get the isk with little effort he will have little restrain in spending them, so he will overpay some item, giving eccess isk to the seller, that again will have larger wallets and be more willing to spend. Another factor is that the isk farmer will have the efficency of a expert player in farming isk (well trained miner with good equipement for exampe) while a average player doing mining as a side activity would not necessarly have all the skills at the maximum level and the good equpement.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2008.01.14 12:52:00 - [34] Seriously though, RMT is bad. Doesn't matter how it creeps into the game, whether it's legal or illegal. It defeats the whole point of in-game resource gathering. Why should I earn ISK in game at all, when my work-hour costs half a billion ISK or more? This is stupid, it renders a large portion of the game obsolete and irrelevant. CCP has found the way to profit from it, but it doesn't make the whole thing better. It's like making a drug-dealers pay a tax, because you can't root out drug trafficking completely.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.01.14 13:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Banana Torres Originally by: Adonis 4174 A quick look around the various isk seller websites indicates that their prices have risen in line with gtc sellers prices. This is why gtc sales are allowed, last year $5 would buy you billions, now people are boasting at selling 100M for $5.95 Absolute rubbish...so typical of this forum now. Which, the fact that it's increased the cost of buying isk twentyfold, the fact that this will mean less people buy less isk or the fact that you had to resort to an ad-hominem attack because you couldn't answer the numbers? ---- Anything less is wasted effort
heheheh Singularity. Talon Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 13:20:00 - [36] If these people have more money than sense then hell let them do it, nothing sweeter than knowing the ship you just popped was payed for by some fools irl cash.
heheheh Singularity. Talon Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.14 13:22:00 - [37] Quote: Why should I earn ISK in game at all, when my work-hour costs half a billion ISK or more? lol go for it, in my opinion exchanging real cash for fake cash is backwards and ridiculous. If your prepared to swap your "work hour" for pixels then more the fool you.
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.01.14 13:25:00 - [38] Quote: It's like making a drug-dealers pay a tax, because you can't root out drug trafficking completely. man if only the goverments would see sense and do this. Your opinion is presicely that, each to his own, if they want to spend cash on pixels like the above poster says then more power to them, if u ask me ccp is just making cash out of idiots, the way business always has been all over the world since ill swap my pig for your magic beans.
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.01.14 13:29:00 - [39] Originally by: Ralek Talen making isk in EVE takes time. only if you decide to mine,mission, trade or rat, the 4 most popular but poor methods of income.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2008.01.14 13:42:00 - [40] Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Banana Torres Originally by: Adonis 4174 A quick look around the various isk seller websites indicates that their prices have risen in line with gtc sellers prices. This is why gtc sales are allowed, last year $5 would buy you billions, now people are boasting at selling 100M for $5.95 Absolute rubbish...so typical of this forum now. Which, the fact that it's increased the cost of buying isk twentyfold, the fact that this will mean less people buy less isk or the fact that you had to resort to an ad-hominem attack because you couldn't answer the numbers? A billion ISK has never cost $5 (and with the amount of spam you can't really miss the going rate updated by the hour). If the price for ISK goes up it is either a sign of CCP shutting down farmers faster or that it is even more than 10% of the playerbase that buy illegal ISK now so the farmers can't keep up. The 10% figure was mentioned by the GM's at FanFest btw.

Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:02:00 - [41] Originally by: XY55XTY Yet another GTC for Isk thread! Run for the hills!!!!! I just came from the hills and they are chock full of GTC to ISK threads. Run away from the hills!!! Run to the valleys!!!
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:08:00 - [42] Once again, people misunderstand the GTC program. CCP makes no $ off of this. Look at these examples. No GTC Program: Player A pays CCP $15 for a month Player B pays CCP $15 for a month 2 players play the game. CCP makes $30 GTC Program Player A pays ccp $15 for a month, + $15 for a GTC. Player B buys GTC for isk. Gets a month of game time. 2 players play the game. CCP makes $30. The only extra money CCP makes is the # of accounts that would not play at all without the GTC program (people that couldn't afford EVE anyway.) I would imagine this is a rather small % of the eve playerbase. Also, here is the difference between casual players using GTC and buying isk from another site. GTC: Player A plays as normal. He Diverts 200m from his isk-flow to buy a GTC and play for another month. He may play a bit harder to earn the extra money, but overall, not much extra isk is being generated. Any isk being generated is being injected in rather small ammounts (200m is not that much for many eve players) Other isk methods Player A controls 6 computers and macros 23/7 to earn as much isk as possible. This player sells the money to multiple players, and probably funds their game time through GTC. This depresses the mineral market (if mining), depresses the LP market (if missioning), or ties up 0.0 resources (if ratting), and generates a large ammount of isk that would not normally be generated. This is a traditional inflationary system. Large ammounts of money being generated that are competeing for the same number of goods.
Nicholas Barker MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:22:00 - [43] the russian mafia and the triads are laundering money, word in low sec is the italians are trying to break through but found out that it's too easy to eat pizza all day when you're sitting playing eve 23/7. ---
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Estephania It's like making a drug-dealers pay a tax, because you can't root out drug trafficking completely. Right hence making drugs legal can only lead to positive things, ie. proper regulation so that you know what you buy is actually good and not directly deadly like rat poison, not dealing with some random lowlife only interested in getting you hooked on harder stuff, more income for the goverment, less crime. And no supporting evidence that legalizing drugs leads to higher consumption, eg in holland there aren't significantly more people smoking weed as in for example germany or belgium. So in other words legalize it! /end hijack --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Resolve	Posted - 2008.01.14 14:30:00 - [45] Originally by: Rid*** Valer* OCCP makes no $ off of this. The only extra money CCP makes is the # of accounts that would not play at all without the GTC program (people that couldn't afford EVE anyway.) I would imagine this is a rather small % of the eve playerbase. This number is larger than you may imagine. It's not just people who couldn't afford EVE. It's people without a way to pay (no CC), people in the EU who buy GTC (and pay in USD to avoid VAT), people who have extra ISK that just want another month+ of play and so on.
Pliskkenn Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:34:00 - [46] Originally by: MotherMoon I can go up to my friend in school and tell him that if he buys me lunch I'll give him 30 mil Back in the day and I'm talking fullon 6-7 years ago I did this with people I played Runescape with. I'll give you a 1000 gold for your sandwichs "Alright!" Free lunch ftw. ---
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:00:00 - [47] Originally by: Estephania Seriously though, RMT is bad. Doesn't matter how it creeps into the game, whether it's legal or illegal. It defeats the whole point of in-game resource gathering. Why should I earn ISK in game at all, when my work-hour costs half a billion ISK or more? This is stupid, it renders a large portion of the game obsolete and irrelevant. CCP has found the way to profit from it, but it doesn't make the whole thing better. It's like making a drug-dealers pay a tax, because you can't root out drug trafficking completely. Yeah, $ for ISk isn't good. Jesus, do we have to go through all this again? So soon? You said it yourself: it can't be stopped entirely, but at least the GTC system supports the game instead of leaching money from it and allows more people to play. It's simply the least worst alternative. Your drug trafficking analogy is probably a good one: banning drugs doesn't work - in fact people can even get drugs in prison, so we'd need a regime more restrictive than being in prison to prevent drug use. Following the analogy, pretty much the only way to stop RMT isk buying would be to eliminate the EvE economy: to prevent ANY kind of asset or ISK transfer between players. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Gealbhan Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.01.14 16:34:00 - [48] As mentioned, GTC sales do not introduce new isk into the game, macro famers and isk buying does. CCP gets money for GTC Player sells GTC for isk Buyer continues playing eve. Everyone wins. No one wins when the macro farmers sell their isk only the farmers. "Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium.
Tarkan Kador Amarr PanTarkan Kador Holdings	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:15:00 - [49] Plenty of people lose when GTC to ISK sales happen. Namely, every line subscriber who pays as they go, rather than through piecemeal timecodes. They have to put up with a mass of EVE characters who tie up research slots, tie up customer service resources, deplete belts, clog systems, gank them, horde ISK, and pay nothing to CCP for the privilege of doing so. The GTC buyer pays a lump sum today, but by selling the GTCs, create service demands in the future in excess of their own service consumption. The players who buy those GTCs with ISK from the GTC buyer create service demands, yet pay nothing for the service demands they end up taking. Right now, there's no advantage to subscribing to this game as opposed to playing off of stockpiled timecodes. That to me is a problem, given all of the problems lately with ingame CS, the lack of research space in the stations, and lag.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Thuul'Khalat There is no inflation in EVE according to the good doctor. Note that I used the term "Inflationary Pressure," not inflation. Recent reductions in high-end mineral prices and the T2 market crash have resulted in much deflation, but much of the inflationary pressure is being caused by ISK Farmers. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2

Fenderson Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:26:00 - [51] so many threads about this... seems like it warrants a sticky with a nice explanation from DrE explaining why GTC selling is better than the alternative of rampant 3rd party isk selling. DO YOU PLAY POKER???? Join ingame channels "DOA Poker" and "Eve Online Hold'em"
Kraya Luden	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:34:00 - [52] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 14/01/2008 05:22:20 Edited by: MotherMoon on 14/01/2008 05:15:03 you can stop me no one can stop me. This was a triumph.
Leora Nomen Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.14 20:12:00 - [53] Originally by: Rid*** Valer* Once again, people misunderstand the GTC program. CCP makes no $ off of this. Look at these examples. No GTC Program: Player A pays CCP $15 for a month Player B pays CCP $15 for a month 2 players play the game. CCP makes $30 GTC Program Player A pays ccp $15 for a month, + $15 for a GTC. Player B buys GTC for isk. Gets a month of game time. 2 players play the game. CCP makes $30. Player B thinks "Gee! I can open second account, train it for a hulk and not pay anything for it". CCP makes $45. The only extra money CCP makes is the # of accounts that would not play at all without the GTC program (people that couldn't afford EVE anyway.) I would imagine this is a rather small % of the eve playerbase. fixed :P The number of accounts paid by ISK is actually very substantial. Just see how many codes are being sold on forums each day - and this is only a fraction of sales done as many people trade codes with their corp and alliance mates. If I take a small sample of all the players in EVE that I've played with so far, roughly 20% of their accounts were paid by the codes. People who go and buy ISK from farmers don't buy codes from CCP causing the average prices on them to rise as they hurt the supply. As average GTC prices rise players who pay for their time with ISK have to grind more hours each month. The more they have to grind, the less likely they are to use a code to pay for play time and the less sustainable additional accounts appear to them. Add to this that codes are a pre-paid product, and players are also more likely to pre-pay if they see that it costs them nothing in terms of real world currency. guide to game time codes


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