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Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
182
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Posted - 2012.02.10 15:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since we have already begun the new election cycle for the Council of Stellar Management, I felt that it's best to take the opportunity to encourage our up-coming CSM-member Overlords to put forth their views and ideas regarding the single most critical issue surrounding the industry profession: Mining.
Before I get started, I just want to make it abundantly clear that I am not running for the CSM. The purpose of this thread is to give our candidates a chance to present their thoughts and ideas regarding the issue at hand. I ask that all candidates stick to the issue at hand and not stray off topic to anything that is not related to the mining profession.
Mining
We all know that the mining profession in the game has suffered a lot for a long time and it's already gotten to the point where it has even been regarded as a crap profession in which capsuleers throughout New Eden are treated like dirt. The rewards gained from mining asteroids compared to the amount of time and resources needed to invest in specializing in this area (skill books, buying the ship and related mods, insurance, and searching for profitable systems) are minimal at best and miserable at worst if you take into account the wave of ganks that has increased during the past six months or so (especially since Crucible was released. But of course, this is just one part of the issue at hand.
Bots
The second issue is a big one. Bots. Those who do stay on the keyboard in front of their computer for hours on end (the truly-dedicated, honest-working miners) are frustrated by the fact that there are other players who cheat by employing bot programs that allow them to leave their computers unattended entirely for hours on end without putting in any effort and still rake in boat loads of ISK worth of ore by the end of the day. As a result, the market is flooded with minerals from such illegal activities and therefore the depreciates the value of the ore over time. As a result, the profession has become almost meaningless in terms of profits.
Note: I understand that there are also mission bots, ratting bots, hauling bots and trade bots, but those topics will be discussed in new threads later on. For now, we are focused on the issues related to mining in general.
Candidates, fire away. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
182
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Posted - 2012.02.10 15:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
(Reserved) |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3195
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
The biggest single fix to mining is already in the pipeline under CSM6 - removing of drone alloy drops and replacing them with bounties.
If you don't understand what an impact that has on mining, then you probably don't belong in this thread! The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
183
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:The biggest single fix to mining is already in the pipeline under CSM6 - removing of drone alloy drops and replacing them with bounties.
If you don't understand what an impact that has on mining, then you probably don't belong in this thread!
This thread is not for me to present my own ideas for the mining profession. If it was, it wouldn't be posted in this Jita Park Speakers Corner. This thread is to provide a platform for the candidates to provide their own ideas. |
The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3195
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
I wasn't replying to 'you' specifically, that's the plural form. Cheers! The Office of the Chairman: A Thread for Constituent Issues |
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
53
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
ACK !
U got that fix all wrong Mittens.. should have removed asteroid belts instead :(
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DurrHurrDurr
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
272
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Revamp the mining profession so that it's not so disgustingly easy to automate. |
Zmaster BloodLust
BloodLust Enterprises Apocalypse Now.
3
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:The biggest single fix to mining is already in the pipeline under CSM6 - removing of drone alloy drops and replacing them with bounties.
If you don't understand what an impact that has on mining, then you probably don't belong in this thread!
I dont agree many times with Mitten... but this time he got a point... And we can see it right now when u search for Tritanium prices! Its simply crazy...
Regards, Z |
Andrea Griffin
108
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:The biggest single fix to mining is already in the pipeline under CSM6 - removing of drone alloy drops and replacing them with bounties. Not to totally derail this thread, but I like the idea of drones dropping something unique instead of getting a straight bounty from Concord. It does add a little variety and flavor, if nothing else.
Perhaps the refinables could be replaced with something else? Perhaps parts required for T2 drone manufacturing, or something new entirely. It's not you guys who need to repair what has been broken, it's us. CCP Wrangler |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
186
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:I wasn't replying to 'you' specifically, that's the plural form. Cheers!
Oh. |
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
929
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Posted - 2012.02.10 16:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
The drone alloy drop change will benefit miners quite a lot.
An extension of that might be to reduce the drop rate of Meta 0-2 modules in level 4 missions, as those are generally just recycled and put to market in the form of minerals.
I'd like to see highsec asteroid densities reduce at the higher security levels, forcing the veld-mining bots I see in 0.8 space to move to .5 or .6 where they're easier for vigilantes to gank repeatedly. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
188
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Posted - 2012.02.10 18:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Since it's been made clear that the CSM6 has already got the ball rolling on drone part of the equation, let's move on.
What do you candidates propose that CCP do in terms of gameplay to curb or discourage the use of mining bots without making it too much of a hassle or inconvenience for the legitimate miners out there? |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
158
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Posted - 2012.02.10 21:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1, support positive discusions on improving the competitiveness and validity of a long neglected profession.
Balancing the redistirubution of minerals from "mission/ratting" to mining as pointed out is a sensible way of doing this without having a diverse effect to the overall economy.
And one potential idea for improved methods to mining to make it more active and hopefully remove the effectiveness of botting, would be to have variable hotspots on an asteroid that require refocusing of the laser's position/targetting to be efficient at the task. Could be done as a number of optional mini-targets on the roid with visual cues? Unsure how best to do this without it becoming a tedious mini-game though, especially as the EvE engine is not "twitch" based aiming or follows that dynamic. Something to work on perhaps?
"All griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems." |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
721
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Posted - 2012.02.10 21:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
My platform, if elected to take a seat on the CSM, would be to provide all the miners of EVE with bottles of their liquor of choice on a monthly basis. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome! |
Gloomy Gus
GoonWaffe
139
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Posted - 2012.02.11 00:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
If given the chance to serve you all in office, I propose to sigh in a deeply despairing fashion whenever the subject comes up, then focus my gaze off into the distance, shake my head dejectedly, and re-focus my attention inward on my own personal problems. Sincerely, Gloomy Gus, Spaceship Pilot.
This post has been signed and sealed by Gloomy Gus, poster on an internet space ship forum entitled EVE: Gate. All Rights Reserved. |
Osabojo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
96
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Posted - 2012.02.11 01:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Andrea Griffin wrote:Not to totally derail this thread, but I like the idea of drones dropping something unique instead of getting a straight bounty from Concord. It does add a little variety and flavor, if nothing else.
Perhaps the refinables could be replaced with something else? Perhaps parts required for T2 drone manufacturing, or something new entirely.
Maybe clothing and/or fashion accessories?
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Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
584
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Posted - 2012.02.12 11:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Miners remember who shoot your ships few months ago on ice belts, and who will sooon as GSF support the next hulkagedon |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
65
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Posted - 2012.02.12 11:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Miners remember who shoot your ships few months ago on ice belts, and who will sooon as GSF support the next hulkagedon
revamped mining = more miners in belts = more prey |
HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
115
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Posted - 2012.02.12 12:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:The drone alloy drop change will benefit miners quite a lot.
An extension of that might be to reduce the drop rate of Meta 0-2 modules in level 4 missions, as those are generally just recycled and put to market in the form of minerals.
I'd say go beyond that, make all rat loot non-refinable, or even better, make rat loot appear in the form of smashed up modules which cannot be refined and actually require minerals to repair into a usable module. The drone regions and rat loot are both sources of minerals which devalue mining, make them into mineral sinks rather than faucets and you'll see a vast resurgence in the mining profession.
Andrea Griffin wrote:Not to totally derail this thread, but I like the idea of drones dropping something unique instead of getting a straight bounty from Concord. It does add a little variety and flavor, if nothing else.
Perhaps the refinables could be replaced with something else? Perhaps parts required for T2 drone manufacturing, or something new entirely.
Yeah, drone region bounties is a decent quick-fix but its not particularly interesting. Its ok as a stop-gap measure to save the mining profession, but over the mid-long term I'd like to see rogue drones switched so they drop something new and unique (perhaps some new datacore-esque item required for new forms of manufacturing, developed to tie in with the long-awaited Industry Revamp expansion we were supposed to get about 4 years ago?)
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
340
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Posted - 2012.02.12 13:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
I do like the drone loot change, not so much the modules not dropping in missions, since I am a missioner. Though mineral prices could go to a price after drone change the mission isk might be too high and not fair. See what happens I suppose.
As for the ganking could happen, maybe with higher mineral prices could be worth it, but I doubt with hulk's high price and only hi sec mining if that would ever worth being ganked for.
Bots would recieve alot of money with this change as well. Websites will sell lots more isk for same price, or more people will be tempted to bot themselves as seeing it worthwhile now. Signature removed, CCP Phantom |
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testobjekt
Creative Accounting Institute
43
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Posted - 2012.02.12 16:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:The biggest single fix to mining is already in the pipeline under CSM6 - removing of drone alloy drops and replacing them with bounties.
If you don't understand what an impact that has on mining, then you probably don't belong in this thread!
this
also: remove abc from w-space |
VCBee 2fast2furious
Aliastra Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.02.12 16:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
testobjekt wrote:The Mittani wrote:The biggest single fix to mining is already in the pipeline under CSM6 - removing of drone alloy drops and replacing them with bounties.
If you don't understand what an impact that has on mining, then you probably don't belong in this thread! this also: remove abc from w-space
:xd: |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
193
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Posted - 2012.02.12 23:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
My reserved post has been updated. Please see the link below for details.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=783442#post783442 |
Tiger Would
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
206
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Posted - 2012.02.13 00:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:Updated as of 12 Feb YC 114 I feel that perhaps I should have required all candidates to post a reply with their own personal answers to the following questions. Current Questions to all Candidates:
- What do you candidates propose that CCP do in terms of gameplay to curb or discourage the use of mining bots without making it too much of a hassle or inconvenience for the legitimate miners out there?
- How do you feel about the whole buff/nerf debate regarding the stats of certain exhumers such as the Hulk and Mackinaw? Do you think either/neither should happen?
- Should the Orca have its corporate hangar/ore hold become scanneble and should any loot drop from such storage areas of the ship upon destruction of said ship or do you wish to leave it alone as it is?
- Do you or do you not believe that iterating on the mining profession is overdue? If so, do you or do you not feel that it deserves its own dedicated expansion?
- How hard will you press the issue of the mining profession when you are elected as a member of the Council of Stellar Management?
Not to long ago i came across this particular thread by a guy called Mors Sanctitatis: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=59357
The OP in this thread would be my guide line since i think he has absolutely great ideas about mining.
As for questions not answered by this particular thread. Buff/nerf of certain exumers imo should not happen before changes like suggested in that thread are made to the profession of mining itself. The "world" looks much different if these changes would find their way into the game.
The Orca should be left alone aside from one thing, it does seem logical any cargo in those specific cargoholds would drop when the ship is destroyed.
I do not think mining needs an entire expansion on its own, but changes to the mining profession are long overdue imo. Than again, such a big change as suggested in the thread i linked to would probably be like a entire expansion for CCP Devs to develop.
Well, one of my goals is to have more random players actually attending roundtables instead of me taking a seat. I would just organize it and take notes. However, that said, as i would help setting up focal points for the roundtables, i would definitly put this forward as a focal point. Fact remains, it is up to the players if they think it has any priority and not my decision to make.
But i would press for it to be a focal point, since mining is one of the first things you do when you start playing EvE. And as it is, mining is not the best advert for the game in its current state and therefor does not help new subscriptions.
Also, although i hate to admit it, Mittens is right, the removal of alloys is already on the agenda which would most definitly make mining more profitable. Once you think you have it all, you-áhave actually become-áignorant towards everything else.
T. Would |
Tiger Would
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
208
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Posted - 2012.02.13 12:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bump for what could be a nice debate.
If you have any other questions, dont hesitate to ask in this thread:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=764317#post764317 Once you think you have it all, you-áhave actually become-áignorant towards everything else.
T. Would |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1595
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 12:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Who is going to speak for the silent majority of players who like mining bots because they keep ship prices low? The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tiger Would
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
208
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Posted - 2012.02.13 12:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Who is going to speak for the silent majority of players who like mining bots because they keep ship prices low?
I think you are looking for mittens, though he is part of a not so silent minority. Once you think you have it all, you-áhave actually become-áignorant towards everything else.
T. Would |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
195
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Posted - 2012.02.14 14:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bump ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Mining Profession*** ***CSM Interstellar Debate - Combat PvP*** |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
61
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Posted - 2012.02.22 15:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
To be honest, the minerals from drones is only *1* facet of problems that have plagued miners for a longass time.
What about the fact that most 0.0 alliances, plainly, just don't want you around.
I have just left BDEAL, where I personally pvp'd non-stop for the month I spent there. The reasons I left were not to do with mining. However, while PVPing there was a constant "omg the miners are in the back pocket jewing again" conversation going on...
I hear CCP is going to try and get rid of moon mining altogether. Why not change the moon minerals to be in the grav sites instead of ABC ores - much like gas sites in wormholes.
The present OTHER issues (not including the money per hour) for choosing mining as a profession as opposed to just going in a drake and ratting/plexing are:
We have to scan these grav sites down. When we do, it's not a soloable thing.
A PVPer goes into a system and plexes every day. He gets all those hours doing plexes and earning cash. When he finishes a plex a new one appears. So too with mining, with the exception that when we get into a grav site it takes 3 days to mine that ******* useless spodzilla out before we can get to the new site with AB in it.
Let's face it why even include Crokite anymore? Hemorphite found in low-sec is now more profitable to mine than crokite.
AB are the only ores worthwhile in 0.0 anymore and there's precious little of it. Otherwise we might as well be in low/highsec and take little/no risk - certainly without the annoyances of cloakers and the like.
Or just do plexes/incursions and let the mineral prices rise a bit more.
Also the ship we need to mine in is twice as expensive as most ratting drakes and has the tank of a t1 cruiser and earns half as much. In the meantime they also get the bonus of the odd easteregg office spawn that could earn anywhere from 1b-8b. While they are rare, you only need 1 a year to set you up.
I won't even go on about earning 500m a day doing incursions as CCP already knows about this.
Eve has not grown, only the number of people living in new eden has. The days of regular ninja mining and covertly putting a tower up to mine from are far gone. New Eden needs to expand. Space is supposed to be vast. So where is the wilderness of new eden? The place is full to overflowing with people in every system you go in.
All of these inconsistencies and plain pain that CCP has built into the system need some kind of balance put in where we can earn a decent living doing what we like to do in the game AND that 0.0 alliances find us worthwhile to have around. While mineral prices have changed drastically over the past years presenting that as the most pressing issue facing mining corps and miners in general, it is NOT THE ONLY ISSUE.
Mittens thinks that "the single biggest issue" for miners is the mineral price, but neglects to understand that most miners are not PVPers and while many would like to be in 0.0 just like him - they can't get there - and when they do, it's rarely worth it.
p.s I totally agree with OP about the botters, they need to go and CCP should be doing more about that **** too. Put graphic sigs back in you cheap assholes. |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
231
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Posted - 2012.02.22 16:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sorry for simply cross posting but it is very relevant to the discussion.
Post generated in GD: The mining 'buff' falacy. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
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