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Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:15:00 - [1] Once I reached Battleship skill lvl 4 I will be quite unsure what to aim for next to do missions with. Paladin or Nightmare, good things has been said about both. But if it comes to missioning what is the best ship of those? Pros and cons compared to each other?
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:31:00 - [2] neither, it should be t2 large lasers and ALL your support skills need maxed BEFORE you get faction/t2 battleship. ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Fon Revedhort Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:32:00 - [3] Nighmare can fit: 4x tech2 Tachyons Heavy Cap Booster 100 mn ab XL SB And go on the BS killing spree with its 1000 DPS @ 37 km \o/ On the other hand, Paladin can omgwtfbbqpwn pretty much all the smaller craft around really fast with its web. I'd say Nighmare is better for a exquisite mission running (i.e. NO permarunning crap) and Paladin is second after none for a dumb one. ---
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:43:00 - [4] Advantages of Nightmare over Paladin: - Tracking Bonus - Gist Shieldtank - Very generous fitting - Full damage from just BS skills - Vertical ships are teh sex Advantage of Paladin over Nightmare? Uhm.... It is cheaper (especially considering the Night really needs that Gist XL to shine)... There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:51:00 - [5] Arent faction lasers better than T2 for pve? Less fitting requirments, less capusage and just a minor ammount of less damage. Just the lower capusage would be more valuable than the added damage. _________________________________________________
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:57:00 - [6] A real Nightmare fits Officer lasers, which are worlds better than T2 ;) There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
LeMoose Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:57:00 - [7] <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 the nightmare have 20m sp in missiles on my mission alt, and evrything that has got to do with the cnr maxed and all revelant missile implants, only 6m sp in gunnery and still nightmare beats it hands down in missioning Caldari ships \| PVP \| Success \| Solo (Pick 3)
Kolwrath Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Lithalnas neither, it should be t2 large lasers and ALL your support skills need maxed BEFORE you get faction/t2 battleship. Ahhh baloney. If you have the skills, and can afford it ... fly it! Nightmare is better than the Paladin IMHO. Mainly due to its sheer xxx-rated DPS with Multi frequency crystals. I would expect to see wrecking hits in the 3000-3600 mark with faction Tachyons and 2-3 heat sinks. For that reason alone it wins :) Originally by: Chaos Space Marines Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
RoSsCs Caldari Jupiter Mining Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.01.15 20:50:00 - [9] The nightmare has awesome damage, nuff said really :p Meet the Family
Hank Showbo Neyi Industries	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:04:00 - [10] - Nightmare over Paladin Shield tanked...when Gist fit use less cap and are stronger than armour tanks. VERY VERY expensive though. Damage...damage will be better from the Nightmare, because it can fit bigger guns and also because it uses mediums to tank, it will have the lows spare for heatsinks. Tracking...cant beat a 7.5% tracking bonus really in both PVE and PVP, they are great. - Paladin over Nightmare Cheaper...both the ship and the fitting Tractor beam bonuses with large cargohold...self explanitory really Capacacitor sound...yea its cap is excellent and you can fit a dual repped + pulse permarunning fit pretty easily with skills to do it. I'd say Nightmare for PVE though really :)

Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Advantages of Nightmare over Paladin: - Gist Shieldtank Needing a deadspace tank is an advantage how?
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.15 21:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: Leandro Salazar Advantages of Nightmare over Paladin: - Gist Shieldtank Needing a deadspace tank is an advantage how? The advantage is being able to field it :P Needing it is the disadvantage. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Bo0yakasha	Posted - 2008.01.16 18:04:00 - [13] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: Leandro Salazar Advantages of Nightmare over Paladin: - Gist Shieldtank Needing a deadspace tank is an advantage how? The advantage is being able to field it :P Needing it is the disadvantage. Yep Yep, the greatest advantage the Nightmare have over Paladin in PVE is the separation of tank and gank into mid and low. ie. you can't have 3 heatsinks on the paladin and still have an uber monster tank, a compromise has to be made somewhere. Not the case with Nightmare.
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.01.16 18:43:00 - [14] I have 3 heatsinks on my paladin and no trouble tanking any lvl 4 mission... /shrug
Bo0yakasha	Posted - 2008.01.16 18:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I have 3 heatsinks on my paladin and no trouble tanking any lvl 4 mission... /shrug yeah if you dual-rep you can still get a pretty good tank on the paladin but good luck trying to fit Tachs though. And if you are single-rep, I doubt "any" includes missions like Enemy Abound part 5, or does it?
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.01.16 19:00:00 - [16] Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 16/01/2008 19:02:23 Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 16/01/2008 19:01:03 I use a single x-type LAR, and Enemies Abound 5 is boring, I have to wait for the spawns to come... No, I couldn't tank a full spawn, but with so much dps I sure don't have to. I sometimes use a 2 tachs/2 mega beam set up, but prefer mega pulse with 2 tracking comps. I do find it a travesty that the only ship that can fit a full rack of tachyons easily is not a pure Amarr ship though...
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2008.01.16 19:40:00 - [17] Coming from a Navy Raven mission ship to the Nightmare is a huge speed bump. All missions so far, except for Guristas with lots of elite cruisers, are completed in half the time if not faster. Using 4 Navy Tachyons w. ditto crystals in highs, mids are 4 hardeners, Navy XL booster, cap recharger and AB with triple Navy HS, PDSII, DCII making up the lows. Relevant skills are approaching 4 and I see no pressing need to max them out - tanking skills are just enough to use T2 gear so nothing fancy either. Insanely powerful that Nightmare PS: Got a string of wreckings on Damsel and three volleyed poor Zor. 'nuff said :)
Law Enforcer	Posted - 2008.01.16 20:23:00 - [18] make your own comparison. end game paladin: [Paladin] Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Large Armor Repairer Draclira's Modified Armor Thermic Hardener Draclira's Modified Armor Thermic Hardener Draclira's Modified Armor Kinetic Hardener Draclira's Modified Armor Kinetic Hardener Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Auxiliary Nano Pump II Auxiliary Nano Pump II 993 dps at 33km +25 falloff 2072 tanked gurista dps for 10min 49s tracking: 0.03373 (you need a five percent powergrid implant for this setup). end game nightmare: [Nightmare] Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Estamel's Modified X-Large Shield Booster Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Estamel's Modified Heat Dissipation Field Estamel's Modified Heat Dissipation Field Estamel's Modified Ballistic Deflection Field Estamel's Modified Ballistic Deflection Field Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I 1789 tanked gurista dps for 8min 26s 1146 dps at 33km +25km falloff. tracking:0.03397 verdict: they both track well enough to insta pop frigates before they get into orbit range although the nightmare has a definite DPS advantage. each ship will cost about ten billion isk so have fun with that.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.16 20:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Law Enforcer each ship will cost about ten billion isk so have fun with that. You mean "each cap recharger will cost around 10bil isk" i think? (last ones i remember sold for 8 and 10bil respectively).
Bo0yakasha	Posted - 2008.01.16 21:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Law Enforcer each ship will cost about ten billion isk so have fun with that. You mean "each cap recharger will cost around 10bil isk" i think? (last ones i remember sold for 8 and 10bil respectively). yeah that was a messed up comparison :) ... sometimes EFT is more fun than EVE. lol

Law Enforcer	Posted - 2008.01.16 21:35:00 - [21] Edited by: Law Enforcer on 16/01/2008 21:38:07 I did make one mistake. it looks like it would end up costing somewhere between 40/60billion isk.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.16 22:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Law Enforcer make your own comparison. end game paladin: [Paladin] Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Large Armor Repairer Draclira's Modified Armor Thermic Hardener Draclira's Modified Armor Thermic Hardener Draclira's Modified Armor Kinetic Hardener Draclira's Modified Armor Kinetic Hardener Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Auxiliary Nano Pump II Auxiliary Nano Pump II 993 dps at 33km +25 falloff 2072 tanked gurista dps for 10min 49s tracking: 0.03373 (you need a five percent powergrid implant for this setup). end game nightmare: [Nightmare] Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Estamel's Modified X-Large Shield Booster Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Estamel's Modified Heat Dissipation Field Estamel's Modified Heat Dissipation Field Estamel's Modified Ballistic Deflection Field Estamel's Modified Ballistic Deflection Field Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I 1789 tanked gurista dps for 8min 26s 1146 dps at 33km +25km falloff. tracking:0.03397 verdict: they both track well enough to insta pop frigates before they get into orbit range although the nightmare has a definite DPS advantage. each ship will cost about ten billion isk so have fun with that. LOL at these setups... Competently flown, these ships will hardly ever go up against kin/therm heavy enemies. What you should end up hardening against is EM/Therm 90% of the time. Otherwise your methods suck. Fitting less than 3 HS is a travesty on either. And for tracking, you fit Tobias' or Gotan's Tracking Enhancers nowadays, not the nerfed TCs. And cap intensive tanking is soooo 2005, you really don't need all these cap mods. In fact my Nightmare runs without a single cap mod. It tanks mostly on resists, initial HP and gank. And occasionally on a Gist XL. And lastly, Estamels Shield boosters sucks for missions, you want Gist or Angel officer ones. And tracking is really not about hitting inties before they make range, you can do that with unbonused arties too. It is about getting a hilarious amount of well aimed and excellent hits, which is why I really like my Tachs tracking well beyond 0.4. In other words, EFT is no substitute for brains. :P There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
achoura	Posted - 2008.01.17 00:00:00 - [23] Funny thing is with 3 heatsinks Vs 3 bcu the nightmare kills guristas faster than the navy raven but has an equal tank. Seriously tho for the op if you don't even have bs iv yet just get a flippin nightmare for the time it takes you to train the pre req for marauder (4 months?), unless you created a die hard amarrian you'll probably have a shield skill or two. TBH the low skillset is the reason for the nightmares cost, paladin does the same job with a bigger hold and big tractors, and this faction armor gear is far cheaper this gist stuff *The EVE servers and their patches*
Azuse The Brotherhood Of The Blade Pure.	Posted - 2008.01.17 00:10:00 - [24] Edited by: Azuse on 17/01/2008 00:11:11 Originally by: Kolwrath Originally by: Lithalnas neither, it should be t2 large lasers and ALL your support skills need maxed BEFORE you get faction/t2 battleship. Ahhh baloney. If you have the skills, and can afford it ... fly it! Nightmare is better than the Paladin IMHO. Mainly due to its sheer xxx-rated DPS with Multi frequency crystals. I would expect to see wrecking hits in the 3000-3600 mark with faction Tachyons and 2-3 heat sinks. For that reason alone it wins :) Currently i have bs iv and large energy turret iv, and 2 3% damage implants and i get: [ 2008.01.01 14:57:20 ] (combat) Your Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser perfectly strikes Guristas War Installation, wrecking for 4259.2 damage. Some day i might actually train those last 2 lvl 5, don't really it it tho. N.B remember one gun here = two on a normal ship. This iw with 3 navy heatsinks. -------------------------
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.17 00:46:00 - [25] Tracking comps were hardly nerfed, I get 35% off a shadow serp tracking comp set to tracking which is awesome since I only have one slot available on my rokh without gimping my tank. If you NEED optimal then tracking enhancers are the same and worthwhile now --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Law Enforcer	Posted - 2008.01.17 01:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Law Enforcer make your own comparison. end game paladin: [Paladin] Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Large Armor Repairer Draclira's Modified Armor Thermic Hardener Draclira's Modified Armor Thermic Hardener Draclira's Modified Armor Kinetic Hardener Draclira's Modified Armor Kinetic Hardener Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Auxiliary Nano Pump II Auxiliary Nano Pump II 993 dps at 33km +25 falloff 2072 tanked gurista dps for 10min 49s tracking: 0.03373 (you need a five percent powergrid implant for this setup). end game nightmare: [Nightmare] Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay Estamel's Modified X-Large Shield Booster Cormack's Modified Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Estamel's Modified Heat Dissipation Field Estamel's Modified Heat Dissipation Field Estamel's Modified Ballistic Deflection Field Estamel's Modified Ballistic Deflection Field Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Draclira's Modified Tachyon Beam Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency L Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I 1789 tanked gurista dps for 8min 26s 1146 dps at 33km +25km falloff. tracking:0.03397 verdict: they both track well enough to insta pop frigates before they get into orbit range although the nightmare has a definite DPS advantage. each ship will cost about ten billion isk so have fun with that. LOL at these setups... Competently flown, these ships will hardly ever go up against kin/therm heavy enemies. What you should end up hardening against is EM/Therm 90% of the time. Otherwise your methods suck. Fitting less than 3 HS is a travesty on either. And for tracking, you fit Tobias' or Gotan's Tracking Enhancers nowadays, not the nerfed TCs. And cap intensive tanking is soooo 2005, you really don't need all these cap mods. In fact my Nightmare runs without a single cap mod. It tanks mostly on resists, initial HP and gank. And occasionally on a Gist XL. And lastly, Estamels Shield boosters sucks for missions, you want Gist or Angel officer ones. And tracking is really not about hitting inties before they make range, you can do that with unbonused arties too. It is about getting a hilarious amount of well aimed and excellent hits, which is why I really like my Tachs tracking well beyond 0.4. In other words, EFT is no substitute for brains. :P GTFO 2005 noobsauce. I was fitting "mission specific" hardners. if you want to do missions for sansha/blood raiders then by all means fit em/thermal hardners. if you're doing missions for caldari then the majority of your missions will be going up againts guristas whom are kinetic/thermal. if you've got a better setup for the nightmare then why don't you post it instead of mindlessly trolling? the only halfway intelligent or relevant thing you've said was to use a gisti booster in your entire post.
Hotice	Posted - 2008.01.17 02:02:00 - [27] Nightmare does sansha/blood raider mission really fast, could be the best ship. Paladin does good dps and can tank really well without crazy gist mods. I've have and tried both, I think over all nightmare is better due to shield tank can deal with pretty much all situation better. Yeah, I use gist x type shield booster and it is worth the money. My nightmare setup: 4 t2 tachyons 1 dimi heavy nosf 1 drone link 1 named 100mn ab 1 gist x type xl booster 4 pith a type hardeners 1 cap recharger II 3 db heatsinks 1 best named dcu 1 db pdu 3 t2 ccc 1 web drone and 5 t2 hammerhead drones. My paladin setup: 4 t2 tachyons 1 tractor 2 salvager 1 t2 100mn AB 1 domination web 2 cap recharger 2 1 centus x type large repairer 3 centus x type hardeners 2 db heatsinks 1 db cpr 2 ccc rigs. 1 web drone and 5 t2 hammerhead drones. Everything runs without problem but need to reduce one heastink when doing WC mission against bloodraider and angels. Over all, nightmare can do missions faster but require a lot more money to make it run well. Paladin is easier on the wallet but require a lot of lvl 5 skills.
Fon Revedhort Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2008.01.17 04:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Azuse Edited by: Azuse on 17/01/2008 00:11:11 Originally by: Kolwrath Originally by: Lithalnas neither, it should be t2 large lasers and ALL your support skills need maxed BEFORE you get faction/t2 battleship. Ahhh baloney. If you have the skills, and can afford it ... fly it! Nightmare is better than the Paladin IMHO. Mainly due to its sheer xxx-rated DPS with Multi frequency crystals. I would expect to see wrecking hits in the 3000-3600 mark with faction Tachyons and 2-3 heat sinks. For that reason alone it wins :) Currently i have bs iv and large energy turret iv, and 2 3% damage implants and i get: [ 2008.01.01 14:57:20 ] (combat) Your Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser perfectly strikes Guristas War Installation, wrecking for 4259.2 damage. Some day i might actually train those last 2 lvl 5, don't really it it tho. N.B remember one gun here = two on a normal ship. This iw with 3 navy heatsinks. 2007.01.14 19:13:34 Combat Your Tachyon Beam Laser II perfectly strikes Sansha's Battletower, wrecking for 5001.9 damage. Still have Caldari BS4 and Large Beam Spec on 4 though. ---
reg keeper The JORG Corporation Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2008.01.17 07:46:00 - [29] Edited by: reg keeper on 17/01/2008 07:49:36 I have and do use a Nightmare in pvp. Not had a chance to try it against npc's but I can tell you a few nugets of info. 1 damage is fantastic. 2 Its ability to absorb damage is excellent 3 Makes a perfect long ranged killer for fleet war fare. 4 Not easy to jam like the Marauder class ships. You will see my kills on smack.griefwatch.net killboards. Check out my damage versus the the other bs. Get one and spend time and isk perfecting it you wont regret it until it dies.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2008.01.17 08:13:00 - [30] Originally by: Law Enforcer GTFO 2005 noobsauce. I was fitting "mission specific" hardners. if you want to do missions for sansha/blood raiders then by all means fit em/thermal hardners. if you're doing missions for caldari then the majority of your missions will be going up againts guristas whom are kinetic/thermal. if you've got a better setup for the nightmare then why don't you post it instead of mindlessly trolling? the only halfway intelligent or relevant thing you've said was to use a gisti booster in your entire post. The thing is, doing Caldari missions in a Lasership is an excercise in inefficiency, and I just have a low tolerance level for peopel doing something that is in my eyes simply stupid. You would earn at least twice the money if you ran an Amarr agent which pits you 90% of the time against enemies weak to EM. Alternatively you would also earn twice as much if you used a Ravenkind ship for Caldari missions. And from the hints I dropped it really shouldn't be very hard to put together the setup I run... There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones



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