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Hammez Coopez
Council Of Internal War The Paganism Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 08:36:00 -
[91] - Quote
Why cant the gates show the TiDi percentage in the next system. Or am i asking to much!
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Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
235
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 08:41:00 -
[92] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:
Thank you very much I'll be here all night
I see you have no idea that EVE runs on a supercomputer...
Tranquility according to Evelopedia is a server cluster
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
53
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 09:22:00 -
[93] - Quote
Pampers Toralen wrote:Time Dilation Sux getting disconnected sucks worse.
And yeah in yee olde days of yore you would have just crashed while doing whatever it was you are doing.
The only way to fix your issue is to simply have CCP get more servers to have eve running on more nodes, so you would have fewer star systems on each node.
So for the first time ever in the game, this is a problem that really can be solved by throwing more money at it. |

JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2012.02.12 10:58:00 -
[94] - Quote
Trolling much ???
How can you whine that your game slow instead of totally being broke ????? |

malaire
212
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 11:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:Does your training time slow down from TiDi?
Just wondering if that is why the OP is so dense. No, TiDi does NOT affect skill training speed.
There are some other things also which it doesn't affect, basically things which take long time (several hours or more) I think.
So research, manufacturing, all that goes at normal speed. Maybe also some POS timers, I don't remember details of that.
I think it was said that basically, if you usually check by clock when this thing will finish - then TiDi will not affect it. There are more detail available somewhere I'm sure, maybe one of those devblogs. New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |

Cipher Jones
300
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 13:45:00 -
[96] - Quote
Or for example when you try to say I am using strawman fallacy and that does not work you can then simply use character assassination fallacy and pretend like "you won the arguement".
Its quite the internet rage.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |

ILikeMarkets
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 14:36:00 -
[97] - Quote
This is why you fly in highsec. Don't see time dilation out in Lonetrek :) Protect highsec.-áWe are the 66%.
https://p.twimg.com/Ajc6KNBCQAAT9my.png (Source: https://twitter.com/ccp_diagoras ) |

Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
802
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 14:48:00 -
[98] - Quote
Pampers Toralen wrote:Ok, so i know there is a massive fleet fight going on with NC. and the Goons, but please how is this a feature. the basic game play is effected 30 jumps away, sent Petitions got told to post on the forums
Flame suite On
*I was there*
First of all I haven't really looked local but I get the feeling the number of 1000+ players lasering/missile'ing/repping/webing/scrambling/disrupting whatever in that system was the minimum number I can think about. See battle rapport and use your brains.
Now I should say that in the system where fight occurred it was really awesome, yes sometimes you had the feeling of moving backward but it's always better than freeze screen for several minutes until you realise one hour later or the day after you're in a fresh pod for 3/4 of that time waiting.
This OC had repercussions on the hardware, and in his turn had repercussions on other players depending of their internet connexion stability/performance as their own hardware.
Overall I'd say that fight for me was the very best prove CCP has done an incredible job around this time dilation and the performances they got with, sure there's still work to be done but it's a very nice improvement.
Also: that was a hell of a fight, I had tons of fun (and also some DC's but it's related to my own internet/hardware), and ready for another big fight where players no matter the major alliance without distinction gave the very best of them all, reshipped several times to get back to fight and kept fighting again and again and again.
This is the fight that remembers me why I joined Eve Online, play with other people, have tons of fun in big spaceship battles and for a moment in my journey or whatever forget I'm just a random human and be an awesome spaceship pilot.
This is awesome \o/ |

Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
335
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 17:42:00 -
[99] - Quote
Dear OP,
In order to remove the effects of TiDi, please stare at this for 10 minutes after undocking or jumping. |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
86
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 17:54:00 -
[100] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Or for example when you try to say I am using strawman fallacy and that does not work you can then simply use character assassination fallacy and pretend like "you won the arguement".
Its quite the internet rage.
You were so using the strawman fallacy. Look at what you wrote FFS:
Cipher Jones wrote:I am not misrepresenting his position whatsoever. If the server was not lagging pre Apocryoha, then this time dilation cannot possible be "the most amazing god damn thing ever." If the server was lagging then, then everyone who said it wasn't is full of ****.
Two conditions in an argument can be true, but not 2 opposite conditions.
So you claim Vile Rat is somehow culpable for the statements of some retards who didn't agree that big fleet fights were laggy pre-apocrypha (were you arguing with Molle?) and that his argument implies that he stated that two conditions which are opposites were in fact both true.
He never ******* said that. Therefore, what you have done is put words into his mouth that came from somewhere else. You misrepresented what he was saying. You're therefore using the strawman fallacy.
I really would like to know how you can explain away the context of your implications. Neither Vile Rat nor I told you that fleet fights weren't laggy pre-apocrypha. In fact, if anybody did, they were lying. Fleet fights have always been laggy, hence the appointment of team BFF. If it weren't so, we wouldn't have seen so many published changes from team BFF. For example, players' drones shoot less often now, but for higher volleys. That change was an early endeavor, among others, to combat lag specifically in fleet fights. Obviously the server was laggy before that change.
So what is it you intend to accomplish by claiming that Vile Rat's statement lacks credibility, when the fact is that you obviously have no ******* clue if it does or does not and are basing an assumption of falsehood on hearsay from random ******* assholes who told you **** on the internet five years ago? |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
958
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 14:10:00 -
[101] - Quote
Prof. you'll be happy to know that better solutions are still being worked on.
By and large, CCP's servers have more than enough power for he number of people it handles online, however problems occur when large numbers of people concentrate in one node.
Currently, to be put on an exclusive node you need to notify CCP in advance. Obviously the ideal is to handle this change over dynamically and seamlessly... CCP is aware of this and continues to work towards this goal.
Even if/when this solution is achieved TiDi will still need to be employed... as EVE players will always increase the number of people involved in their conflicts no matter what the upper limits of the hardware are. Simply increasing the number of server blades is not a solution.
Complaining about an interim solution because it is not yet the final solution is pointless.
PS: Cypher, lag has always been a serious issue. There have been times when it was a little better, and times when it was a lot worse, but system lock/black screen has always been present. People tend to always look at the past with rose colored glasses. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
238
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 14:25:00 -
[102] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
Complaining about an interim solution because it is not yet the final solution is pointless.
Essentially I was complaining that if they hadn't invested so much in 'gambling' on new products this interim solution would be a final complete and fully workable solution already.
Also not entirely sure the assertion, we would still need Tidi is entirely true but I don't think anyone but the devs really have the data to asses that problem in it's entirety.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
960
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 14:37:00 -
[103] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
Complaining about an interim solution because it is not yet the final solution is pointless.
Essentially I was complaining that if they hadn't invested so much in 'gambling' on new products this interim solution would be a final complete and fully workable solution already. Also not entirely sure the assertion, we would still need Tidi is entirely true but I don't think anyone but the devs really have the data to asses that problem in it's entirety.
That is correct, and they have assessed the issue... and published their findings on this topic more than once in various blogs on the subject.
As they have pointed out in the past, dynamically shifting people from node to node (or onto a reinforced or "super" node) would require a vast rewrite of basic EVE code. It was not designed with this premise in mind originally, which is unfortunate but there you have it.
I understand your point, so does CCP. They have and are continuously working in that direction... but it's a huge undertaking that will likely be years to completion (if ever). Other projects are not a factor in this equation... no more so that creating other content for EVE. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
238
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 14:41:00 -
[104] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Other projects are not a factor in this equation...
Oh you say a massive rewrite of the fundamental code would be required , how massive is that , probably less than writing 2 new games from scratch I'd imagine.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
961
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 15:18:00 -
[105] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Other projects are not a factor in this equation... Oh you say a massive rewrite of the fundamental code would be required , how massive is that , probably less than writing 2 new games from scratch I'd imagine.
... or constant updates and new releases.
By your logic it makes sense to put all expansions on hold for a few years so that EVE can be rewritten from the ground up.
Lets try to be realistic here and let CCP devote a reasonable amount of resources to fixing this issue, as well as keep us happy with new expansions as well as expanding their portfolio to remain financially solvent.
We now have a very acceptable interim solution in place, with more to come shortly client side. Insisting that CCP should turn their business model and future plans upside down so that a few people won't risk having to move a system lest their game slow down temporarily is more than a little unrealistic. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
238
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 15:37:00 -
[106] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: By your logic it makes sense to put all expansions on hold for a few years so that EVE can be rewritten from the ground up. .
You seem to have followed my logic incorrectly, IMO it makes no sense to heavily invest in other projects that might never make $1 in favour of your 'cash cow' , feel free to continue to be obtuse and try and put words in my mouth though 
Also
Quote:as well as expanding their portfolio to remain financially solvent.
Recent staff cutbacks seem to indicate that this is whats threatening there solvency, but thats an entirely diffrent disscusion
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Jonathan Malcom
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
51
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:31:00 -
[107] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: By your logic it makes sense to put all expansions on hold for a few years so that EVE can be rewritten from the ground up. .
You seem to have followed my logic incorrectly, IMO it makes no sense to heavily invest in other projects that might never make $1 in favour of your 'cash cow' , feel free to continue to be obtuse and try and put words in my mouth though  Also Quote:as well as expanding their portfolio to remain financially solvent.
Recent staff cutbacks seem to indicate that this is whats threatening there solvency, but thats an entirely diffrent disscusion /edit you also seem to misenterperate my position in your last paragraph as well, this specific case is an example of a more general problem IMO, not that this specific case is the entire problem
You're an idiot.
You think investing time and energy in a new product to generate revenue is the same as entirely rewriting an existing product for no tangible benefit except sparing a few lowsec systems some occasional dilation.
Also, every argument you've put forward in this thread has been from a position of ignorance. You don't know anything about Eve's server structure or how it was programmed. You're telling CCP to fix the problem and you don't even know what the problem is.
Stop posting. |

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
1848
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:33:00 -
[108] - Quote
Never stop posting. |

Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:51:00 -
[109] - Quote
Translation of all this:
TiDi really does help large fleet battles which I would hoped it would. The old way was a big big problem...
BUT
Everyone else playing who is inconvienced... Tough, suck it up or quit...your game time isn't valued by many in the EVE community...
Who ever said life is fair??? |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
120
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:52:00 -
[110] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:Everyone else playing who is inconvienced... Tough, suck it up or quit...you game time isn't valued by many in the EVE community...[/b] They can TiDi with us or we can go back to the old days where they'd crash with us.
Maybe in future we need gank squads to go to systems that are TiDied and kill people there. |

Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:55:00 -
[111] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Doc Severide wrote:Everyone else playing who is inconvienced... Tough, suck it up or quit...you game time isn't valued by many in the EVE community...[/b] They can TiDi with us or we can go back to the old days where they'd crash with us. Maybe in future we need gank squads to go to systems that are TiDied and kill people there. No, don't wanna see that going backwards, I agree it really was bad...
All I'm saying is that some can play while others cannot under these circumstances. And it obviously doesn't matter to some.
|

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
89
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:58:00 -
[112] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
Complaining about an interim solution because it is not yet the final solution is pointless.
Essentially I was complaining that if they hadn't invested so much in 'gambling' on new products this interim solution would be a final complete and fully workable solution already. Also not entirely sure the assertion, we would still need Tidi is entirely true but I don't think anyone but the devs really have the data to asses that problem in it's entirety.
It's a matter of geometry.
Scales increase, therefore we need TiDi. You don't necessarily have to believe it, just try to understand that if you make a box twice as big, it can still be filled. If you make it twice as big again, it can still be filled, and so on.
In this analogy, the box is the maximum threshold at which the server stops receiving all the module queues and they start to accrue. The substance filling the box is the modules queuing. What TiDi does is stretch the box's dimensions on the fly. That's the genius of it: They are monitoring the node and balancing it.
|

Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 18:48:00 -
[113] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
Complaining about an interim solution because it is not yet the final solution is pointless.
Essentially I was complaining that if they hadn't invested so much in 'gambling' on new products this interim solution would be a final complete and fully workable solution already. Also not entirely sure the assertion, we would still need Tidi is entirely true but I don't think anyone but the devs really have the data to asses that problem in it's entirety. It's a matter of geometry. Scales increase, therefore we need TiDi. You don't necessarily have to believe it, just try to understand that if you make a box twice as big, it can still be filled. If you make it twice as big again, it can still be filled, and so on. In this analogy, the box is the maximum threshold at which the server stops receiving all the module queues and they start to accrue. The substance filling the box is the modules queuing. What TiDi does is stretch the box's dimensions on the fly. That's the genius of it: They are monitoring the node and balancing it. Reminds me of this girl I knew. Her box was so big that....(Insert sick fantasy here)
|

Mongo Travler
Royal Order of Security Specialists Support
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:58:00 -
[114] - Quote
Time-Dilation was effecting more systems then just random null systems.
I was flying through low sec when I jumped into a dilated system. To me a node crash would have almost been preferable to hoping that my pursuers were experiencing the same time delay and that my client wasn't crashing. When you know you are jumping into a large fleet fight and expect the dilation that is completely different then trying to fight/flee in a system of 5 people and discovering that everything is moving at half speed.
I would agree with others in this thread that a more amicable implementation would be to assign nodes to constellations or connected systems. At the very least then you know that a large fight is taking place near by and not on the other side of the universe. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
238
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 19:59:00 -
[115] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote: It's a matter of geometry.
Scales increase, therefore we need TiDi. You don't necessarily have to believe it, just try to understand that if you make a box twice as big, it can still be filled. If you make it twice as big again, it can still be filled, and so on.
In this analogy, the box is the maximum threshold at which the server stops receiving all the module queues and they start to accrue. The substance filling the box is the modules queuing. What TiDi does is stretch the box's dimensions on the fly. That's the genius of it: They are monitoring the node and balancing it.
Interesting analogy, surely you are shrinking the substance in the box not stretching the box, to be able to strectch the box on the fly you need dynamic nodes, which is what I am advocanting. Also how big these 'boxes' CAN be is something I dont think we know.
Also to whoever says it's not needed it's just time dilation, IMO giving the nodal system an overhaul is the possible first step of more possible improvemnets to EVE that include balancing player loads, I can think of a few .
/edit Darth to your final dramatic statement I would say you are correct but as ever my point is that expanding resources rather than throtteling input would have been a better solution
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1099
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 22:25:00 -
[116] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Darth Gustav wrote: It's a matter of geometry.
Scales increase, therefore we need TiDi. You don't necessarily have to believe it, just try to understand that if you make a box twice as big, it can still be filled. If you make it twice as big again, it can still be filled, and so on.
In this analogy, the box is the maximum threshold at which the server stops receiving all the module queues and they start to accrue. The substance filling the box is the modules queuing. What TiDi does is stretch the box's dimensions on the fly. That's the genius of it: They are monitoring the node and balancing it.
Interesting analogy, surely you are shrinking the substance in the box not stretching the box, to be able to strectch the box on the fly you need dynamic nodes, which is what I am advocanting. Also how big these 'boxes' CAN be is something I dont think we know. Also to whoever says it's not needed it's just time dilation, IMO giving the nodal system an overhaul is the possible first step of more possible improvemnets to EVE that include balancing player loads, I can think of a few . /edit Darth to your final dramatic statement I would say you are correct but as ever my point is that expanding resources rather than throtteling input would have been a better solution
I have to say, one of the more impressive trolls in GD in a long while. Stretched it to 6 pages on your troll alone.. well played, sir. |

Akatenshi Xi
Elite Shadow Society ESS Empire
17
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 22:33:00 -
[117] - Quote
Here's a thought, how about you do small gangs instead of see who can bring more dumb asses to the party?
You'd save everyone in EVE from TiDi effects. |

Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
7328
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 22:40:00 -
[118] - Quote
Throw more monies at it.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |

Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 22:49:00 -
[119] - Quote
Just add TiDi effect to the map. It should have been done at implementation. |

Xolve
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
870
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 22:56:00 -
[120] - Quote
Confirming 500 vs 250 man fleet last night (including late join cap fleet) TiDi peaked at 42%; 1-3 second targeting lag, 405 second module activation lag. Nobody Crashed.
Even if TiDi effects the entire node, the way things are going in the North, its relatively unrealistic to ask CCP to reinforce multiple regions (Tenal, Venal, Branch, Deklein, Tribute), everyone in a system under the effects of TiDi is also slowed down, this is a glorious thing.
If you've never been in a large fleet battle (multiple fleets even) or you've never stepped foot into Null-Sec just shut up now, your opinion is worthless, your argument invalid. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
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