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baltec1
588
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 00:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Which still isn't good enough for what they try to do with it basically 
The very fact the fight happened at all is evidence that it does indeed work. TiDi is a technical marval and I for one love that CCP has returned to pushing gaming technology forwards. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 00:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Which still isn't good enough for what they try to do with it basically  The very fact the fight happened at all is evidence that it does indeed work. TiDi is a technical marval and I for one love that CCP has returned to pushing gaming technology forwards.
Yes infecting 100's of other people with lag so you can have your lulz, very selfish defention of the way forward IMO
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

baltec1
588
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 00:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:
Yes infecting 100's of other people with lag so you can have your lulz, very selfish defention of the way forward IMO
Please point out these hundreds and which systems they were in. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
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Posted - 2012.02.12 00:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:
Yes infecting 100's of other people with lag so you can have your lulz, very selfish defention of the way forward IMO
Please point out these hundreds and which systems they were in.
OH I don't know divide number online/number of nodes most likely =100's if not 1000's
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Aamrr
255
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Posted - 2012.02.12 00:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think the hundreds were busy "having their lulz" -- it was a fight of, what, 1400 people?
I think favoring the 1400 over a few random people scattered around the various nodes is preferable here.... |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 00:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:I think the hundreds were busy "having their lulz" -- it was a fight of, what, 1400 people?
I think favoring the 1400 over a few random people scattered around the various nodes is preferable here....
As I said what would be prefrable is if CCP would have invested in good enough infastructure to run the game as advertised, if we see a proliferation of blob wars because of this it may threaten a lot of CCP's income if people refuse to pay for a lag fest.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

baltec1
588
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 00:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:
OH I don't know divide number online/number of nodes most likely =100's if not 1000's
You have no idea about how TiDi or nodes work or even what they are do you... |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 00:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:
OH I don't know divide number online/number of nodes most likely =100's if not 1000's
You have no idea about how TiDi or nodes work or even what they are do you...
I don't know how many actual nodes are run no, but if there are 1400 people in a fight I would reckon it's fair to assume at least 10% of that (non involved parties) could be affected if they share the node (or nodes ?) with combatents
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

baltec1
588
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:
I don't know how many actual nodes are run no, but if there are 1400 people in a fight I would reckon it's fair to assume at least 10% of that (non involved parties) could be affected if they share the node (or nodes ?) with combatents
highlighted the important bit. There are only a handful of systems per node and most if not all are in the middle of nowhere with little to no population. The OP got unluckly but thanks to TiDi, they could still play the game rather than having the node just shut down on them. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
Or as I say CCP could have improved there infastructure, or you know even come up with a solution that DOESN'T impact other players.
But NO being the 'lets try this and hope for the best' kinda outfit they are they didn't.
Also would be interested to know your source for your node assignemt assertion
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

baltec1
588
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Or as I say CCP could have improved there infastructure, or you know even come up with a solution that DOESN'T impact other players.
But NO being the 'lets try this and hope for the best' kinda outfit they are they didn't.
Also would be interested to know your source for your node assignemt assertion
I get my info from years of CCP telling us what they are up to and very detailed nerd posts made by very excited Devs.
As for better stuff, do you have any idea how expensive a supercomputer is to buy and run?
|

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
361
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Posted - 2012.02.12 01:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
is this like one of those philisophical questions, like "is it okay to kill a single innocent person if it saves millions of lives?"
only in this case it's 'module lag in a video game' instead of 'death' |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
As for better stuff, do you have any idea how expensive a supercomputer is to buy and run?
Is this a joke like , how much does it cost for CCP to develop proper software solutions to there problems???
Too much ! 
/edit
Or how about
How much does it cost to bring TQ up to spec ?
About 2 pieces of vaporware 
Thank you very much I'll be here all night
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Zag'mar Jurkar
QC Steel Industries
9
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Posted - 2012.02.12 01:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Feels like a troll infiltrated this thread. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:34:00 -
[45] - Quote
Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:Feels like a troll infiltrated this thread.
Yes looks like you slipped in just after me and Baltec where disscusing our diffrent viewpoints of the matter 
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Zag'mar Jurkar
QC Steel Industries
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:Feels like a troll infiltrated this thread. Yes looks like you slipped in just after me and Baltec where disscusing our diffrent viewpoints of the matter 
Because the best solution to everything is just throwing more money at it right ?  |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:Feels like a troll infiltrated this thread. Yes looks like you slipped in just after me and Baltec where disscusing our diffrent viewpoints of the matter  Because the best solution to everything is just throwing more money at it right ? 
If it's supposed to be a major feature of your game and it doesn't work properly then that might be a good idea yes 
/edit and is that one of them famous strawmen arguements I hear these troll types like to use
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Zag'mar Jurkar
QC Steel Industries
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
As it seems, it does work... |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:As it seems, it does work...
But has detremantal effects to other players, so not really an ideal solution
/edit also I meant it didn't work BEFORE they implemented there shody solution
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Zag'mar Jurkar
QC Steel Industries
9
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:As it seems, it does work... But has detremantal effects to other players, so not really an ideal solution
Compromises have to be made sometimes, it's not like there is over 1000 ships battles all the time everywhere. |

Trunt Lyon
Production N Destruction INC. The Last Chancers.
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:[quote=Zag'mar Jurkar]As it seems, it does work... But has detremantal effects to other players, so not really an ideal solution
u so stooopiiiiiiid |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:54:00 -
[52] - Quote
Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:As it seems, it does work... But has detremantal effects to other players, so not really an ideal solution Compromises have to be made sometimes, it's not like there is over 1000 ships battles all the time everywhere.
Well we'll agree to disagree then, as far as I'm concerned getting things 'right' while developing is all important, small problems now may become greater problems down the line. The devil is in the detail
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 01:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
Trunt Lyon wrote:Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:[quote=Zag'mar Jurkar]As it seems, it does work... But has detremantal effects to other players, so not really an ideal solution u so stooopiiiiiiid
Thanks for bringing something interesting to the disscusion 
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
84
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 02:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Trunt Lyon wrote:Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:[quote=Zag'mar Jurkar]As it seems, it does work... But has detremantal effects to other players, so not really an ideal solution u so stooopiiiiiiid Thanks for bringing something interesting to the disscusion 
Interesting, you say?
Let's look at the detriment you have been victimized with compared to pre-TiDi, shall we?
TiDi:
Bystanders in systems on the same node as the offending fleet fight experience a period of limited ISK per hour as their system is dilated, but are completely able to interact with the game during the period of TiDi.
Pre-TiDi
Bystanders in systems on the same node as the offending fleet fight as well as every other capsuleer on TQ experience a period of interrupted service during which TQ is rebooted. GM's deal with ensuing DB corruptions. Players actually lose the ability to interact with the game during the reboot of TQ.
Hmmm, yeah, I feel really bad for the people who have only to leave their current system to avoid the detrimental effects. Because DB corruptions and service interruptions weren't detrimental at all, to anybody...ever. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 02:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
I didn't say there wasn't a problem before, or that this hasn't improved. What I said was it isn't a very good solution to said problem if it STILL causes others problems.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
84
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 02:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:I didn't say there wasn't a problem before, or that this hasn't improved.
No, you made the equally obvious statement that a limited number of people experience a period of inconvenience.
You referred to it as a "detriment" to certain other players.
I'm wondering what metric you're using, because it's clear to me that the "real" detriment to the players has been addressed and corrected in a fashion that is by and large vastly more satisfactory than before.
That makes TiDi not so much a detriment, as a boon. By definition. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 02:18:00 -
[57] - Quote
Or you know they could have addressed the fundamentals and made sure that large fleet fights aren't detremantal in any way to other players and done it properly IMO.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
84
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 02:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Professor Alphane wrote:Or you know they could have addressed the fundamentals and made sure that large fleet fights aren't detremantal in any way to other players and done it properly IMO.
Curious how you would address the problem of increasing scale.
Let's say your answer is more nodes to achieve less systems per node:
Without TiDi the nodes crash anyway under the same load, making TiDi a necessary component of this method of fix.
Let's say your answer is 64 bit server codebase:
OK we bring 6.8k people to a future fight and without TiDi the node crashes anyway.
Let's say your answer is to disincentivize the formation of coalitions:
OK now more fleet fights happen more often, making TiDi a necessity as it becomes probable that there will be saturation on multiple nodes instead of just one (or in extreme cases two).
So I'm still wondering how TiDi is not a component of any valid fix you may come up with.
I am, along with computer scientists everywhere, on pins and needles awaiting your response to the dilemmas created by increasing scale. |

Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
234
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 02:30:00 -
[59] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Or you know they could have addressed the fundamentals and made sure that large fleet fights aren't detremantal in any way to other players and done it properly IMO. Curious how you would address the problem of increasing scale. Let's say your answer is more nodes to achieve less systems per node: Without TiDi the nodes crash anyway under the same load, making TiDi a necessary component of this method of fix. Let's say your answer is 64 bit server codebase: OK we bring 6.8k people to a future fight and without TiDi the node crashes anyway. Let's say your answer is to disincentivize the formation of coalitions: OK now more fleet fights happen more often, making TiDi a necessity as it becomes probable that there will be saturation on multiple nodes instead of just one (or in extreme cases two). So I'm still wondering how TiDi is not a component of any valid fix you may come up with. I am, along with computer scientists everywhere, on pins and needles awaiting your response to the dilemmas created by increasing scale.
You are ???
How about monotiring your nodes properly and reassigning to more robust structures under stress
or a slolution to our local problem , reassigning non involved systems away from the critical node?
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |

Trunt Lyon
Production N Destruction INC. The Last Chancers.
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 02:31:00 -
[60] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Professor Alphane wrote:Or you know they could have addressed the fundamentals and made sure that large fleet fights aren't detremantal in any way to other players and done it properly IMO. Curious how you would address the problem of increasing scale. Let's say your answer is more nodes to achieve less systems per node: Without TiDi the nodes crash anyway under the same load, making TiDi a necessary component of this method of fix. Let's say your answer is 64 bit server codebase: OK we bring 6.8k people to a future fight and without TiDi the node crashes anyway. Let's say your answer is to disincentivize the formation of coalitions: OK now more fleet fights happen more often, making TiDi a necessity as it becomes probable that there will be saturation on multiple nodes instead of just one (or in extreme cases two). So I'm still wondering how TiDi is not a component of any valid fix you may come up with. I am, along with computer scientists everywhere, on pins and needles awaiting your response to the dilemmas created by increasing scale.
If you throw lots and lots of money at the problem, then it will surely fix itself! RIGHT?!?!
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