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xttz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.17 10:59:00 - [31] The range limit isn't 5000m, but your actual smartbomb range. I tried to use an officer smartbomb on a gate and it told me I needed to be 9km away.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.01.17 11:00:00 - [32] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 17/01/2008 11:04:00 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Miniturret to the above poster. yes that is the definition of griefing but the OP plans to make a profit off of this plan. so therefore by their own definitions it is not griefing. huh i foresee an update coming soon(tm) to their definition of griefing. Technically blowing up newbs can be profitable. Not much profit grant you but you can make some money doing it. Note they leave themselves the loophole big enough to drive an Avatar through with the "At our discretion" part. Also note my quote of Miz Cenuij above where he was smartbombing Jita and got warned. Up to you to sort what that means exactly. No, there is no loopholes. The overall ruling is: that CCP/GM's can ban you for whatever they want, whenever they want. If you don't like it, then it sucks to be you. It all boils down to if a GM thinks your actions (any action) warrant a banning or not, not about taking "similar" cases into account or about your feelings on the subject. Like in the OP's case; if he pulls through with this stunt as is successful he will properly face one or two petitions against him. Then it is the up to the GM to decide the outcome. Personally I don't see anything wrong with smartbombing Jita, but... I'm no GM. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ama-gi	Posted - 2008.01.17 11:08:00 - [33] jita iv - 4 caldari navy has a 'sig radius' or zone of showing 0m to target that is larger than the station model. A 6 or even 7km smartbomb won't let you hit the players undocking when you're showing 5km from the station. It's possible a longer range one could but you're talking about an extremely expensive stunt at this point. There's a reason ccp put in the 5km restriction for activating smarties. I would recommend if you plan to do this that you get onto the test server with a few friends and do some range testing. Not that I recommend doing it at all. I do shop at jita occaisionally u know :-\ -- No love for the Matari
jitabomber	Posted - 2008.01.17 11:21:00 - [34] ris dnalor I will be taking your idea and running with it on the test server later today to find out the ranges and where I have to station myself for optimal effect and if it is even plausible. I'll be back after the tests to inform everyone if it's able to be done.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.01.17 11:41:00 - [35] Originally by: jitabomber ris dnalor I will be taking your idea and running with it on the test server later today to find out the ranges and where I have to station myself for optimal effect and if it is even plausible. I'll be back after the tests to inform everyone if it's able to be done. Make sure to test several smartbombs with difference max ranges
jitabomber	Posted - 2008.01.17 11:47:00 - [36] oh i plan to test it extensively before attempting it on tranq. But looking at it profit wise if i'm able to use standard smartbombs since this is a suicide mission it would be better. time to begin the testing.
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2008.01.17 11:48:00 - [37] Normally I am against Suicide Gankers (though not in the "Ban them! They are Cheating!" way, because honestly the thrill of RUSHING past them with valuable cargo is the high point of a sell run for me LOL!) but honestly Jitabomber...GIVE'EM HELL! +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...! O.o
EinaruS Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2008.01.17 12:00:00 - [38] a gm needs to reset concord if you for example smartbomb outside jita m4 station, we did it once in a group and were sort of asked not to do it again but i don't think it's bannable especially since you can already suicide - A finger...especially the middle one, is worth more than any amount of isk
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.01.17 12:00:00 - [39] I don't think that this is possible. If it were there would be whine threads about it all over the forums.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.17 12:15:00 - [40] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 17/01/2008 12:24:39 Originally by: Frug Why would that be a bannable offense? What part of that sounds bannable or like an exploit? Probably the part where they crash Jita server for the Concord spam and the wreckage spam. Originally by: jitabomber No I know it's not a bannable offense to activate a smartbomb in high sec. What I'm wondering and perhaps I phrased the question wrong. Is it bannable to sit just outside of the 5km range and activate the smart bombs to make the ships explode that are undocked, lose my ship to concord and than warp a hauler in to scoop the loot and make a profit. Obliviously would take multiple ships suiciding in order to blow up the other ships since this will not be a direct target suicide. Now since Jita is a 0.9 system it can not be classified a new player system. So If the plan were to come to fruition and I continued to play the character and not dispose of him, how would the GM's declare this. Since it would wreck my security status till such point that I fixed it by ratting or low sec / null sec mission running that I could return to jita and do it again. Seriously I don't think it is a bannable offense, but you can try petitioning it in advance (it work better than asking on forum). Even if the GM decision was later changed it should avoid you the eventual ban. I would point that I don't think that smartbombing a busy trade hub will give you much profit. A node death would have high chances to happen and your wrecks would be lost before you could relog.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.17 12:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton i still want to sit 5km off a gate and rip some smarties, wonder how many ap haulers you could get in jita Probably 0. almost all hauler going or leaving Jita are piloted. On the other hand you probably will get some lagged (in this situation really "to death") ships. Leaving Jita 4-4 station 30 seconds of black screen are the minimum time.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.17 12:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Does smartbombing a wreck kill the wreck? Seems to me if it does and you want the loot the chances of wiping most of the wrecks with the loot using smartbombs is rather good. No, smartbombing don't damage the wreck (go figure the difference between a wreck and a person in your gang or your drones for the smartbomb). Learned that by the old Rancer smartbomb camp. They recover the loot from the wrecks as they aren't destroyed.
Silent Vagabond	Posted - 2008.01.17 12:33:00 - [43] Originally by: Jowen Datloran No, there is no loopholes. I can already tell you're not the sharpest pencil in the box. Quote: The overall ruling is: that CCP/GM's can ban you for whatever they want, whenever they want. If you don't like it, then it sucks to be you. Of course they can, but that's not the point; people want to know where CCP draws the line on certain issues, but apparently CCP isn't telling them. Thus they have set forth vague rulings which may need to be explained in more detail.
Orlenda Enterprise Shipyards Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.17 13:28:00 - [44] What you would like to do is within the rules. And it would be interesting to see.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.01.17 13:36:00 - [45] I believe it is allowed so long as you don't recycle an alt to do it. The penalty may not be so obvious but when you do this you will either fail miserably or you will take out a number of pods as well. The latter will be likely to render you KOS in high security systems for a long time. ---- Anything less is wasted effort
Orlenda Enterprise Shipyards Ltd.	Posted - 2008.01.17 13:37:00 - [46] With moderate ratting, how fast do you think you could bring yourself up from a -10.0 security status?
Andreask14 Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula Dragons Of Oceans	Posted - 2008.01.17 13:43:00 - [47] You should smartbomb with apocs instead of ravens, cause thats all they are good for.
Valan The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.17 14:28:00 - [48] Originally by: jitabomber oh i plan to test it extensively before attempting it on tranq. But looking at it profit wise if i'm able to use standard smartbombs since this is a suicide mission it would be better. time to begin the testing. Not sure why but I'm going to help you out here. You won't make any profit. If you're going to highsec gank you need to choose and scan targets. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
WredStorm Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.01.17 14:43:00 - [49] I do not believe this will work, as mentioned by some folks above. As you exit Jita 4-4 CNAP you will see that you are 0km from the station. Even as you fly away for some time, you still show as being 0km from the station. I'd estimate that you actually have to fly about 3-5km distance before you actually show as being any distance at all from the station which means you'd have to fly 8-10km from the undocking point to show as being "5km" away and thus able to use your smart bombs. Being 8-10km away from the undocking point means your standard tech 1/2 smart bombs will not reach anyone near the undocking point. I suspect the only ships you might find that will wander out as far as you would be someone in a freighter that simply pointed away from the station at full speed and went afk for a few minutes so they get far enough from the undock point to not be jostled when they go to warp. Needless to say, your smart bombs are not going to take down a freighter. Good luck with your testing though, I'll be interested in seeing if this supposition is correct or not, WredStorm
Alowishus Pastry Coalition Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.17 14:59:00 - [50] Edited by: Alowishus on 17/01/2008 15:00:48 Lots of things are not covered by the written rules. But as we've seen in the past, continuing to do something after the GMs tell you to stop will get you banned. As far as the mechanics of this, there are Minmatar stations where this will work better than the Caldari station at 4-4. Try finding a high traffic system that has these stations, maybe Rens? Haven't been there in awhile. /makes fart noise
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.17 15:00:00 - [51] Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Frug Why would that be a bannable offense? What part of that sounds bannable or like an exploit? because concord should ban you for something that stupid;) Well they kinda do. Youll prolly get insta -10 sec status rofl ------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition II - Vanguardian
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2008.01.17 16:14:00 - [52] Edited by: Frug on 17/01/2008 16:14:38 Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Frug What part of that sounds bannable or like an exploit? Probably the part where they crash Jita server for the Concord spam and the wreckage spam. So by your logic, killing lots of people is an exploit and should be banned. Sign me up for hello kitty online plz. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.17 20:07:00 - [53] Originally by: Frug Edited by: Frug on 17/01/2008 16:14:38 Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Frug What part of that sounds bannable or like an exploit? Probably the part where they crash Jita server for the Concord spam and the wreckage spam. So by your logic, killing lots of people is an exploit and should be banned. Sign me up for hello kitty online plz. Wrong reply. Failure to read Frug. They key point was crash Jita server, and I was mostly a jest, as you should notice re-reading the posts. There was nothing about killing people. If some one repeatedly crash Jita server smartbombing ships there it is highly probable that a GM would issue a warning and if he persist a ban, but it will be not for the killing but for knowingly causing repeated crashes.
Soldur Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2008.01.17 20:15:00 - [54] just fit a caracal with a rack of heavies,and bcs u have about 10 seconds before concord gets u enough to pop most haulers just make sure and fit a cargo scanner to get a tasty target. Quote: DO IT TO IT
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.01.17 20:28:00 - [55] Originally by: Venkul Mul No, smartbombing don't damage the wreck (go figure the difference between a wreck and a person in your gang or your drones for the smartbomb). It's probably to keep people from getting Concorded when they accidentally SB somebody else's wrecks. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Valadeya uthanaras Killjoy.	Posted - 2008.01.17 20:34:00 - [56] Originally by: Venkul Mul They key point was crash Jita server, and I was mostly a jest, as you should notice re-reading the posts. There was nothing about killing people. So bassicly, you could use a trial account to bomb around 4-4 people outside the smartbomb warning range to crash the jita node and therefore kill some conglomarate profit while you get rich selling stuff all around jita..... Seem wicked and evil...... NO I NEVER DID THIS AND NEVER WILL just a funny tought .... muhahahahaha , lets load sobaseki/new caldari with stuff a three time the price of what you buy them in jita.....and then crash jita to make tons of profit...
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.17 20:49:00 - [57] Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras Originally by: Venkul Mul They key point was crash Jita server, and I was mostly a jest, as you should notice re-reading the posts. There was nothing about killing people. So bassicly, you could use a trial account to bomb around 4-4 people outside the smartbomb warning range to crash the jita node and therefore kill some conglomarate profit while you get rich selling stuff all around jita..... Seem wicked and evil...... NO I NEVER DID THIS AND NEVER WILL just a funny tought .... muhahahahaha , lets load sobaseki/new caldari with stuff a three time the price of what you buy them in jita.....and then crash jita to make tons of profit... Yes, if you do that at peak time hitting enough people (Concord spam 1 group for criminal activity it is probable it can kill the node). If you are selling in near systems or in the other trade hubs it is possible you will get a profit from that. But if CCP detect a player doing that purposefully I think they would not be pleased.
Sexiest Beast	Posted - 2008.01.17 21:03:00 - [58] whats the difference between smartboming in a mothership/carrier in low sec whilst sitting on a gate and smartbombing at a station exit regardless of range ? also to help clarify. a GM informed me that smartbombing to negate the decloak/lock timer is indeed an exploit. I pettitioned this once because an MC MOM was smartbombing a station way deep in 0.0 once and basically you were dead before you even undocked from the blackscreen of death. not 100% sure the differences between Station/Gate/Low Sec/High Sec but as already said its ultimatly CCPs decision and if they view it as a player doing it to grief or is trying to circumvent specific game mechanics (decloak/invul timer) then expcet a warning depending on what corp/alliance you belong to
MenanceWhite Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.17 22:42:00 - [59] Originally by: Tral'c Why worry about smartbombs? Just use regular ones 1) 4 or 5 people load up a Stealth Bomber with bombs 2) 1 person sit at Jita 4-4 and the rest sit 16k away 3) Gang up 4) Everyone fire their bombs 5) 15 seconds and 15k later... 6) Watch fireworks 7) Get Concorded 8) Pick up loot 9) PROFIT!!! Much profit to be had when 1. Cant use bombs in empire 2. bombs costs about min 15m / charge --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Tral'c	Posted - 2008.01.17 22:46:00 - [60] Originally by: MenanceWhite Originally by: Tral'c Why worry about smartbombs? Just use regular ones 1) 4 or 5 people load up a Stealth Bomber with bombs 2) 1 person sit at Jita 4-4 and the rest sit 16k away 3) Gang up 4) Everyone fire their bombs 5) 15 seconds and 15k later... 6) Watch fireworks 7) Get Concorded 8) Pick up loot 9) PROFIT!!! Much profit to be had when 1. Cant use bombs in empire 2. bombs costs about min 15m / charge I never said it was a good idea....

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