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Orestes
   |
Posted - 2004.03.23 16:02:00 -
[1]
*watching this thread like a hawk*
Join the IC! |
The Reverend
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:02:00 -
[2]
Just been having a conversation with Sassinak.
Been contemptating the reasons why I play EVE.
I play EVE as a escape from RL, to be a killer. I gain a thrill from seeing others being destroyed, from podding people. I am simulating a basic inbuild desire to seize power, to remove my opponents. I work with others.
Yet with the real world being what it is today. With the fighting in the middle east, with the destruction that we as a race inflict on each other and the rest of this planet of ours. what does it mean for me, for all of us who fight in any game.
As Sas put it "Better we pretend to kill each other in a game than go into the street and really hurt someone"
But wouldn't it better to put all of those resources into helping each other - to building a future for those that follow us, rather than sitting playing a game that just promotes more violence, more greed.
m0ovie links |
Hillbilly bobby
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:11:00 -
[3]
wow topic posted @ 16:02:00
Moderator posts @ 16:02:00
Thats fast work 
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Sassinak
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:12:00 -
[4]
On the notion that we are probably the most bloodthirsty players in this game.. The most violent corp..
However, like I say this is all only just pretend. 90% of games out there are so much more violent than this, not like we even see the "face" of who we kill. We can only imagine the death of hundreds of crew inside them ships.
Were basically just a big bunch of kids playing pretend intergalacic cowboys and indians
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:14:00 -
[5]
Rev, while I would love to discuss this topic with you in length, it would probably be better done inside the game as the moment you bring up politics or religion (which are both involved in the current state of affairs) it pretty much polarises the community and just starts a massive flamewar here on the boards.
Gimme a yell in-game when you get sick of blowing up CA guys (or during) and I'll happily talk. 
-----------
"Remember people: Omber is the biggest evil ever created, DO NOT let it get to you!"
Waagaa Ktlehr, BDCI
I have a blog
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Sassinak
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:17:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
wow topic posted @ 16:02:00
Moderator posts @ 16:02:00
Thats fast work
As the man said...
Like a Hawk
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:20:00 -
[7]
/me assumes the Eagle position and watches
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Dirtball
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:28:00 -
[8]
Quote:
But wouldn't it better to put all of those resources into helping each other - to building a future for those that follow us, rather than sitting playing a game that just promotes more violence, more greed.
Some people, some societies are far beyond help IMO might as well just keep playing the game to stay away from those societies as much as you can.
Those people that need help arn't going to listen to people like you and me anyway we're all just a bunch of idiotic gamers. You got to be a salesman with fancy pants and drive an suv in order to garner enough respect to help people.
Although if what you're saying is that you've invented a RL life space ship and are secretly trying to recruit people for your new colony on another planet/moon I may be interested.
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The Reverend
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:28:00 -
[9]
I have loads I would love to write out here - but I have no wish for this post to fall into one of discord and flaming. I'll simpily leave off for now by pointing out that we as a group of players should consider that unity outside of this game is what is needed. We should realise that we are the up and coming generation (regardless of age, race or religious beliefs.) The world around us on the outside is falling down, society is crumbling around our feet.
Just remember that in the end this is only a game
m0ovie links |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:29:00 -
[10]
Quote:
On the notion that we are probably the most bloodthirsty players in this game.. The most violent corp..
Actually you are wrong. I once met so bloodthirsty and violent corp in game that m0o looks like a children in a kindergarten. Luckily none of them had tried mining so I convinced them that the roids where actually miners. They¦ve been stripmining 0.0 ever since
Seriously though this sounds like a way to intelligent discussion to be fun.
__________
Capacitor research |
The Reverend
|
Posted - 2004.03.23 16:29:00 -
[11]
LOL - if we can gather enough RL resources together to build one, I'm sure CCp would supply us with a free BP for a colony ship.
m0ovie links |
Sybylle
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:32:00 -
[12]
Hehe...He said he is a hawk 
@Rev
Sure it's better to kill each others virtually than IRL, and that's for games are made for, as any other entertainment.
We have some needs that we have to satisfy. Playing a game or just imagine ourselves in an onirical world gives us more freedom to express our "bad" face.
I suppose you do not block highways IRL and ask people for money or life 
The question is : would you do it if Eve wasn't there?
I, again, suppose you won't. Eve being a game and being by definition virtual, this tends to increase our bad actions. As you know the only risk you got is also virtual, you play as far as it's permitted.
Of course it would be better to help the others IRL. But have you seen how hard it can be even in a game to find somebody ready to help you?
Just because you aren't in the same corp for instance...
Why you won't help somebody of another corp (even not against yours)?
Well...Simply because you make more profit (isk, stuff or other) selling stuff at a highter price, or because helping your mates sounds more important to you.
You won't help other empires also, as they do not act as you or because you hate them due to their past or present actions.
Translate this virtual world to real world. Change isk with your currency. Change corpmates with your family (for instance), empires with countries...
Just remember that what makes a good story is always true events, or events and mechanics that we can understand and apply to our world.
IMO, if main leaders would really help peoples, they will do it. Why they don't?
Because it is (sad to say, but true) more convenient for them not to do it, be it for financial, ethical, social, religious or any other stuff...
PS : keep in mind that IRL you can help people around you. But you cannot help everybody.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)=Oveur (proof)
"Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period" |
Lyden
|
Posted - 2004.03.23 16:34:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Lyden on 23/03/2004 16:36:47
Quote:
I play EVE as a escape from RL, to be a killer. I gain a thrill from seeing others being destroyed, from podding people. I am simulating a basic inbuild desire to seize power, to remove my opponents. I work with others.
Yet with the real world being what it is today. With the fighting in the middle east, with the destruction that we as a race inflict on each other and the rest of this planet of ours. what does it mean for me, for all of us who fight in any game.
As Sas put it "Better we pretend to kill each other in a game than go into the street and really hurt someone"
But wouldn't it better to put all of those resources into helping each other - to building a future for those that follow us, rather than sitting playing a game that just promotes more violence, more greed.
You comparing apples to oranges, or in this case violent crimes to playing a game, the two things are not the same in the slightest bit. Only by the nouns we use do they have any comparison at all.
Do you consider Chess violent? You taking command of your pieces (against there will) to kill other pieces to gain more control of land (the board) until total genocide of your enemy has been committed, or at the very least all their leaders killed.
Everything can be made to sound evil, but it doesnÆt make it so.
You know the rules of the game when you sit down to play. No body is harmed physically in any way by your actions in the game. If you do not agree to the terms do not play.
Actions carried out in the game do not equate to real life actions they arenÆt even the same. ôKillingö someone in game is no different that lifting a piece off the board in Chess, they made their move you made yours. People are merely playing by the rules to achieve a goal. ôKillingö a piece in chess doesnÆt mean your really trying to kill people. Playing by game rules does not lead to more violence and greed outside of the game. Trying to say so is melodramatic, at the least.
Lyden
--
Cans are made of spandex, doubt me? How else could they hold so much more outside of your ship? |
Ukiah
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:37:00 -
[14]
Quote:
wow topic posted @ 16:02:00
Moderator posts @ 16:02:00
Thats fast work
*gasp* The truth is out. Orestes has a m0O alt named The Reverned!
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Sybylle
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:42:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Sybylle on 23/03/2004 16:43:21
Orestes trained "Topic Prediction" to level 5
edit : spelling
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)=Oveur (proof)
"Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period" |
Heigh Suse
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:44:00 -
[16]
It's good that you can waste your life in this game.. It sounds like the Real World™ would benefit without your violent ways.
You said it yourself that the game allows you to act the way you want and wether or not you believe it, not everyone wants to power trip about beating people down.
Ya, I'm glad you can breed your violence and greed in this waste of live :P
Don't be hatin' |
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:45:00 -
[17]
Ohh no, the jig is up!
Join the IC! |
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2004.03.23 16:48:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Just been having a conversation with Sassinak.
Been contemptating the reasons why I play EVE.
I play EVE as a escape from RL, to be a killer. I gain a thrill from seeing others being destroyed, from podding people. I am simulating a basic inbuild desire to seize power, to remove my opponents. I work with others.
Yet with the real world being what it is today. With the fighting in the middle east, with the destruction that we as a race inflict on each other and the rest of this planet of ours. what does it mean for me, for all of us who fight in any game.
As Sas put it "Better we pretend to kill each other in a game than go into the street and really hurt someone"
But wouldn't it better to put all of those resources into helping each other - to building a future for those that follow us, rather than sitting playing a game that just promotes more violence, more greed.
To be honest, Rev: No. The game isn't designed for large scale cooperation between the players.
Look at the game design. The basic foundation of the game is built on limited resources. The economy, what makes X more valuable than Y, is based on the limited resources we use to build X and Y. The rarest of those resources located in areas with no restrictions to prevent Player A from shooting Player B to take those resources.
Look at the game backstory. 4 different races, each with a nemesis in one of the other races. There is no common enemy among the 4. The current story, as it exists, continues to poke and prod each race into a building confrontation between them and their nemesis.
There is no common goal among all players in the game to provide a large scale cooperative gameplay. The backstory provides every reason to keep the 4 races from cooperating on anything except the most vital of issues. The current story attempts to polarize the existing playerbase along lines drawn in racial tension. There isn't a common enemy. There aren't enough (or at least allegedly aren't enough) resources for everyone to have everything they want. And the economy is based on how much of those limited resources enter it and who controls those resources.
So honest answer, no. And it'd take far too long to redesign it into a satisfying game to play with competitors already on the market and more coming in short order. Competitors that have already set a high standard in large scale cooperative play between the players. A Tale in the Desert took the bar and kicked it with a hang time that'll remain untouched in that area for a long time to come. Horizons is designed to provide large scale cooperation between the playerbase to complete quests that provide substantial rewards for the participants and the playerbase as a whole. Everquest essentially perfected the idea of raiding high level content with large groups of players. AO is slated to release an expansion pack this summer with a common threat in invading aliens.
Someone keeps chanting at me (I'm pretty sure you know who, Rev) that Eve is about blocking. Blocking off others from what you want and have. He's correct. If there is a community to be or a future for people to build, the game is designed for you to build it around yourself to protect you and what you have from others.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Leland Kincaid
|
Posted - 2004.03.23 16:51:00 -
[19]
you do realize the world is not that violent and the Vast majority of the world live in peace and do not worry about get murdered every day. Its why the every single year the average lenght of life increases. Yet one train blowing up in spain and poeple think the world is doomed. Stock markets crash for no reason. Yes its bad they died yet is also bad that 65000 people died in the US alone from auto accidents. The world is relativly safe its hsa not changed the media just exagerates it.
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Marcsen
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:51:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Marcsen on 23/03/2004 16:52:44
I think this game is MUCH more violent than all the shooters out there.
Imagine you are playing UT, you get killed, respawn and continue.
In EVE, the player has to "physically" work for his life, eg his ship. Imo its more violent to destroy someones RL work, eg moving ore from cargo to can for hours and hours, than to kill someone in a shooter with full gore.
---[G]--- |
Marcsen
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:53:00 -
[21]
I think the world is doomed since the first human died by another humans hand
---[G]--- |
Dekar
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:57:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dekar on 23/03/2004 17:01:24
The real world is 100 times more complex than Eve.
In Eve, we all start with something that gives us the ability to aid ourselves to becoming the greatest in the universe. In real life, while many are born with this same chance, most don't.
Their lives exist of simply surviving by working when their body is strong enough for it. And if they're lucky, get to a school what the western world would consider low level.
To them, sitting behind a computer talking about life online is a dream that won't become the truth in their life time.
Even as we type that, another dozen children die of hunger, and more of random accidents.
Quote:
It is estimated that one billion people in the world suffer from hunger and malnutrition. That's roughly 100 times as many as those who actually die from these causes each year.
About 24,000 people die every day from hunger or hunger-related causes. This is down from 35,000 ten years ago, and 41,000 twenty years ago. Three-fourths of the deaths are children under the age of five.
www.thehungersite.com
-------------------------------------------------
Lying Scumbag |
Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2004.03.23 16:58:00 -
[23]
Tralala
methinks ye is thinking too much. Grab a soda, take a crapper, get some zzzz's, then see how it looks in the morning. My bet is you'll be ready to log on again soon. The real world be-damned... :)
However, now if you want to help build a better Tranquility, one where there is no slavery, then perhaps, you may have found yourself a worthy goal. :-|
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Marcsen
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Posted - 2004.03.23 17:01:00 -
[24]
Ignoring the fact zhis may become a serious topic, i have to admit that slavery is not the worse thing on ranquility 
---[G]--- |
Ris Dnalor
|
Posted - 2004.03.23 17:02:00 -
[25]
now now marcsen...
You can't go being all vague-sexy like that. Tell us what is worse? *grin*
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Marcsen
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Posted - 2004.03.23 17:03:00 -
[26]
Well, its worse that slaves are so costy these days
---[G]--- |
Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2004.03.23 17:04:00 -
[27]
Ach, that stings...
/emote holds hands clasped over heart...
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Sybylle
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Posted - 2004.03.23 17:06:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Edited by: Marcsen on 23/03/2004 16:52:44
I think this game is MUCH more violent than all the shooters out there.
Imagine you are playing UT, you get killed, respawn and continue.
In EVE, the player has to "physically" work for his life, eg his ship. Imo its more violent to destroy someones RL work, eg moving ore from cargo to can for hours and hours, than to kill someone in a shooter with full gore.
Eve is clearly less violent physically than FPS, but I agree it's more violent psychologically, as in a FPS you earn and loose really fast, and dying 20+ times in a match is current, and nothing of what you earn while alive is yours. In Eve, getting stuff is really expensive and time-consuming.
This is also why I say Eve is more close to our real world...Progressing is time consuming, costs a lot in money...
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)=Oveur (proof)
"Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period" |
Ris Dnalor
|
Posted - 2004.03.23 17:08:00 -
[29]
Speaking of violence... one day, ccp will provide us with the means of freeing our brethren, on that day I will relish in the task of prying those slave purchase receipts from your cold, dead fingers...
/emote smiles a toothy one...
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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toaster
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Posted - 2004.03.23 17:16:00 -
[30]
good post Reverend, very insightful and something to think about.
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