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When will CCP finally fix the DESYNCH BUG ?!

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SirMolly	Posted - 2008.01.24 20:20:00 - [1] Edited by: SirMolly on 24/01/2008 20:20:45 Promised to fix it so many times and yet it's still broken. ------------------------------------------------
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.24 20:22:00 - [2] What is a desynch? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.24 20:22:00 - [3] They're currently rewriting all of their netcode. I bet that once that happens desync will be fixed. As to how long it will be, I have no idea. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
SirMolly	Posted - 2008.01.24 20:26:00 - [4] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What is a desynch? Ever tried warping 50 dreads to a hostile POS ? ------------------------------------------------
Semkhet Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 20:26:00 - [5] Holy cow, LMAO ! First, the OP's name Then, the second post And finally, a coherent reply in the third post ?
Semkhet Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 20:36:00 - [6] Originally by: SirMolly Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What is a desynch? Ever tried warping 50 dreads to a hostile POS ? She would get a seizure just by watching it on Youtube Ahhh... my ribs hurt... I will behave now, scouts honor. All this was just too cute
SexxxSlave	Posted - 2008.01.24 20:58:00 - [7] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What is a desynch? its kinda like when you hit "submit" on ebay and it doesnt register...im sure you know what thats like
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.24 20:58:00 - [8] No SirMolley, I have not tried warping 50 draeds to a POS. Semkhet do you have a YouTube link? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Battleclash	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:03:00 - [9] Does anyone else see the irony in the op's sig? Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Stupidity is universal.
Martin Mckenna D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What is a desynch? Basicaly as far as I can gather a desynch is when the server stops receiving information breifly from the cliant. This means say you are aproaching a can. On the cliant screen you may be right next to the thing but the server still sees you 10km away from it. In otherwords the cliant and the server and not running in sync.... Please correct me if im wrong... ---------------------------------------------
wnoop	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:04:00 - [11] Rewritting the code in the hope that the bug will disappear instead of finding where the error is? Fools are bound to make the same mistake again.. Bad coding practice Ccp.
Martin Mckenna D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:04:00 - [12] Originally by: Battleclash Does anyone else see the irony in the op's sig? and yes its rather funny..... ---------------------------------------------
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:09:00 - [13] Originally by: Martin Mckenna Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What is a desynch? Basicaly as far as I can gather a desynch is when the server stops receiving information breifly from the cliant. This means say you are aproaching a can. On the cliant screen you may be right next to the thing but the server still sees you 10km away from it. In otherwords the cliant and the server and not running in sync.... That sounds about right. Basically information gets lost between the server and client without either finding out about the lost information. The server thinks that a player is in one location and the client thinks it's somewhere else. Whenever the client attempts to do something the server doesn't like, it's just ignored. Originally by: wnoop Rewritting the code in the hope that the bug will disappear instead of finding where the error is? Fools are bound to make the same mistake again.. Bad coding practice Ccp. Based on a couple of discussions and my own educated guesses, I think desync is a very subtle bug - they have been trying to locate it for the past six months, and the bug itself has been around (though not very common) for years. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Martin Mckenna Originally by: Battleclash Does anyone else see the irony in the op's sig? and yes its rather funny..... Hey, it is '08, whining is fair game now.
Inflexible Shokei	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:11:00 - [15] Originally by: wnoop Rewritting the code in the hope that the bug will disappear instead of finding where the error is? Fools are bound to make the same mistake again.. Bad coding practice Ccp. Maybe rewriting code helps to fix bad coding practice? Every piece of code gets degraded over time by modifications and patches. If it is true and they are rewriting their code, it is great for EVE.
wnoop	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:14:00 - [16] That might be true.. new skills learnt and all that.
Helison Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:16:00 - [17] Edited by: Helison on 24/01/2008 21:16:28 There are/were several sorts of desynchs around. One of them, which is quiet wellknown, is the "desynch at bumping" where the calculation of a bump is different on the server and on the client, perhaps only because of different rounding. In my opinion the server should send the position and the vector of the ship after every bump - This will increase network traffic a bit, but it might solve this issue. Beside this there were several cases of desynchs, coupled with lag, when the server stopped to send some sort of updates to the client. I experienced this only once several months ago and I have no idea, if this is still around.
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:18:00 - [18] Originally by: Tarminic Whenever the client attempts to do something the server doesn't like, it's just ignored. Instead of ignoring the nonsense, why not just "detect" the desync and take care of it, even if that means killing the connection? ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Alora Venoda Originally by: Tarminic Whenever the client attempts to do something the server doesn't like, it's just ignored. Instead of ignoring the nonsense, why not just "detect" the desync and take care of it, even if that means killing the connection? I can't really say - I don't know if it's just the way the server handles exceptions from the client (my guess is a method that requires as little processing as possible), or if maybe these kind of messages are too common to do anything like killing the connection, or maybe they think that doing that would frustrate players just as much as the desync itself. Hell, without looking at the code myself I don't even know if what I'm saying is anything other than hot air. I do seem to recall there being some kind of desync button or hotkey that you could use to "reset" the connection and fix the desync, but I have no idea if it's real or just my brain malfunctioning. You have to go to some advanced setting to enable it. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Martin Mckenna D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.24 21:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Alora Venoda Originally by: Tarminic Whenever the client attempts to do something the server doesn't like, it's just ignored. Instead of ignoring the nonsense, why not just "detect" the desync and take care of it, even if that means killing the connection? Maybe its just me but I think if it was that simple to just "take care of it" something would have been done already. Killing the connection? Maybe not the best idea in some situations but in others yes... ---------------------------------------------
SirMolly	Posted - 2008.01.26 20:10:00 - [21] I want a dev to explain why desynchs are still happening, while they are easily reproducible.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.26 22:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Tarminic That sounds about right. Basically information gets lost between the server and client without either finding out about the lost information. The server thinks that a player is in one location and the client thinks it's somewhere else. Whenever the client attempts to do something the server doesn't like, it's just ignored. Now I feel kinda stupid. But this is making me think. Could it be this desync is a feature from optimization? I mean a dev could be looking at how to save data transfer but at the same time this saving is also giving desync? It that possible Tarminic, I mean you seem to know what you are talking about. Please explain, thank you. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Calyce Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.26 22:31:00 - [23] Sheesh SirMolly, its whining like that which gets nowhere. If its "easily reproducible", then why dont you file a bug report about it with all the steps clearly put forward so the bug hunters will be able to reproduce it as well?? Help fix the problem instead of just whining
SirMolly	Posted - 2008.01.26 23:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Calyce If its "easily reproducible", then why dont you file a bug report about it with all the steps clearly put forward so the bug hunters will be able to reproduce it as well?? Because my bug report will go directly into the CCP_trash_can.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.26 23:27:00 - [25] Originally by: wnoop Rewritting the code in the hope that the bug will disappear instead of finding where the error is? Fools are bound to make the same mistake again.. Bad coding practice Ccp. It's usually more dangerous and more difficult to fix problematic network code than it is to rewrite the whole package completely.. besides, 5 years is long enough to have a pretty solid understanding of what you have and what you want to do with it, which makes for much better design work. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Nyana Gunne	Posted - 2008.01.27 00:59:00 - [26] i just lost a ship to this bug and i am not very happy
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.27 01:08:00 - [27] Edited by: goodby4u on 27/01/2008 01:09:56 Originally by: Nyana Gunne i just lost a ship to this bug and i am not very happy petition,im sure they will get you a new one. As for the dropping the connection thing just do it yourself,because frankly some desyncs arent bad enough to restart for. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Nyana Gunne	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:34:00 - [28] Originally by: goodby4u petition,im sure they will get you a new one. I'm sure they will give me a "nothing in our logs" reply
Fantome Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:05:00 - [29] You get usally dessync too in complex : After a while with 2 account : account A see Account B to X km and B see A to Y km, or you're 0km from gate and you get the bloody msg "you need to be less than 1.5km..", this bug is in game since the complex had been introduced. Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum. Last TCF 's IRL meeting
torswin Silver Snake Enterprise SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:06:00 - [30] Only way to find out is to try --- Unless explicitly stated, this post does not represent my alliance, corporation, my own, or any other living organism's view.
Zor Chaine	Posted - 2008.01.27 12:49:00 - [31] Originally by: goodby4u petition,im sure they will get you a new one. No they won't because the sloppy network code can't detect desynchs (if it could it would fix them on the fly) and as such desynchs aren't logged. Which means you'll get a vanilla response of "no" from some empire dwelling GM unable to apply any common sense to the situation.
Asestorian Domination.	Posted - 2008.01.27 12:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Nyana Gunne Originally by: goodby4u petition,im sure they will get you a new one. I'm sure they will give me a "nothing in our logs" reply Yes, they will, because they seriously cannot detect desync. After all, if they could detect it, then they wouldn't have had all the problems they have been having trying to fix it. Also, just because something is easily reproducible doesn't mean that it's easy to find in the code and fix. --- MOZO
Nyana Gunne	Posted - 2008.01.28 10:57:00 - [33] \o/ hurray \o/ just got my "nothing in the logs" reply
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What is a desynch? Basically it is this games grave if it wont get fixed. It's not happening in capital combat only. Happenes in small scale combat with only a couple battleships too nowadays.
Nyana Gunne	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:05:00 - [35] it even happens with only 4 people in the system ...
Zor Chayne Hedion University	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:13:00 - [36] Dear Devs, Since you're great at slotting 'work-arounds' into your code to avoid fixing it or tightening up your coding standards, why not slot a workaround in for desynch? You may not be able to write code that avoids state racing, or any of the other basic tenets of server/client interaction, but I'm sure you could jam in a "EMERGENCY RESYNC" button. Maybe just something to send a high priority packet to the server saying something along the lines of 'I DON'T KNOW WHERE I AM, HELP!'. I dunno, just throwing you ideas, not that you read these boards. -- :(
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:19:00 - [37] Originally by: Zor Chayne I dunno, just throwing you ideas, not that you read these boards. I must be imagining all those blue bars round posts then.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:21:00 - [38] Originally by: Zor Chaine Originally by: goodby4u petition,im sure they will get you a new one. No they won't because the sloppy network code can't detect desynchs (if it could it would fix them on the fly) and as such desynchs aren't logged. Which means you'll get a vanilla response of "no" from some empire dwelling GM unable to apply any common sense to the situation. Now this sucks. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:34:00 - [39] Okay, in my time in eve i have come to understand the following things ALL cause desynch. ò Bumping off an asteroid while right after warping to a belt, same aplies for other objects at warp-ins. ò When you warp to a belt, if an NPC shoots away from an asteroid, it is most likely that it is now desynched, and the chances of the wreck dropping where you see it go boom, are next to Zero. ò Missions with alot of gates, like the Extravaganza missions, often cause you to become heavily desynched after activating the gates one or 2 times. ò Undocking from a very heavy station Such as the market station in Amarr, or Jita, if you get "bumped" alot before your screen loads .. Or even after, can cause the server to place you somewhere, while the client wants to put you somewhere else, i'm guessing because the clients physics renders slightly different from the servers (Could be something minimal like a 0.0000000001 difference somewhere) meaning over time, it builds up. ò Getting "thrown" into warp if you've been pinned to a station (happens often with the station design of the main Amarr station) or another celestial object. ò Lots of ships Fleet warping, i'm guessing because the server tries to put too many of them in the same place of warp-in point, while the client shows you all come out in your own little area of space. This causes the server to think they all bumped off each other, putting their "real time" location elsewhere of the "client" outcome. I honest to god hope that if someone from CCP reads this, it helps them in some way, the -only- reason i can think of desynch happening is because the client may use some mini-version of the physics engine, so that your not waiting too long on a server response for your exact location, and they are not exactly accurate to each other, and possably even the client is overwriting the servers incoming data basically saying "i wanna put you here and i dont care what the server says" Welcome to EvE
Semkhet Spartan Industries Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:39:00 - [40] Originally by: Asestorian Originally by: Nyana Gunne Originally by: goodby4u petition,im sure they will get you a new one. I'm sure they will give me a "nothing in our logs" reply Yes, they will, because they seriously cannot detect desync. After all, if they could detect it, then they wouldn't have had all the problems they have been having trying to fix it. Also, just because something is easily reproducible doesn't mean that it's easy to find in the code and fix. Bull*hit. You really believe that if the client is displaying incoherent information, like drawing your ship near a gate, stating your distance from said gate near 0 and spitting out a message saying that you must be near the gate to jump out can't be detected ? Don't you realize that the client/server combined ALREADY own all the info required to detect such conditions ? If the devs actually design their code to include detection of said incoherences is another matter. The only thing needed is a callback function to check if the UI and the server are on the same page. Sheesh, acknowledgment, redundant data streams, integrity and synchronization routines exist since acoustic modems ffs...
Dr Slaughter Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.28 12:41:00 - [41] Originally by: Zor Chayne but I'm sure you could jam in a "EMERGENCY RESYNC" button. Sadly this appears to be CTRL-Q. CCP this is not the nerf you are looking for... [a image was here once but it went away]
Thrawnfl	Posted - 2008.01.29 20:16:00 - [42] I got the Docking desynch, shows my carrier at the station but when i try and dock it says im still in warp. Stays like that for 4 or 5 minutes, it seems to happen whenever a capital ship bumps another capital or a pos object.
SirMolly	Posted - 2008.01.31 13:44:00 - [43] bump, i want a dev reply.
SirMolly	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:05:00 - [44] Originally by: SirMolly bump, i want a dev reply. bump
SirMolly	Posted - 2008.02.15 15:39:00 - [45] devs, where are you hiding ?
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.15 21:19:00 - [46] WHEN WILL PEOPLE STOP ABUSING CAPITAL LETTERS IN FORUMS. Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005
Ciara Daag Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.02.19 11:27:00 - [47] Desync is when you warp out of a belt to a safespot and then log after you came out of warp,but when you log back in,the rats in the belt killed you,and ccp tells you that your SOL when you petition it. Thats a desync.
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.02.19 11:37:00 - [48] Originally by: SirMolly devs, where are you hiding ? It's abviously way cooler to post "Hey here we have new shiny graphics" then poisting: Our netcode is broken and yes we admit you are paying for a totally broken game. They did talk about desyncs once and there was testing on SISI going on. They also fixed it a patch after. Well no they did not.
Whip Slagcheek	Posted - 2008.02.19 11:46:00 - [49] Just wanted to add my voice that I'm still experiencing this as well. Seems related to collisions as mentioned. I would love for CCP to say exactly what they need from us to fix this problem. I thought it had gotten better after they "fixed it" but lately I've been having to log at least once per gaming session to get the client back in sync. It's not lag. Ship responds to commands fine. Go to jump through gate / open container / activate remote repair -> "you must be xxx km...." This is in sparsely populated systems where server seems to handle the load fine. This isn't POS war capital stuff.
Macdeth Ephemeral Misgivings	Posted - 2008.02.19 18:31:00 - [50] Originally by: Semkhet Bull*hit. You really believe that if the client is displaying incoherent information, like drawing your ship near a gate, stating your distance from said gate near 0 and spitting out a message saying that you must be near the gate to jump out can't be detected ? Don't you realize that the client/server combined ALREADY own all the info required to detect such conditions ? If the devs actually design their code to include detection of said incoherences is another matter. The only thing needed is a callback function to check if the UI and the server are on the same page. Depending on how the client's commands are presently sent to the server, this may not be possible and could be entirely why the net code is allegedly being rewritten. For example, if movement was simply 'warp to/jump through/dock at entity', 'move along this vector, full speed ahead', 'activate module X (on target Y where applicable)'
Xykanth Roldeir	Posted - 2008.02.20 08:16:00 - [51] I get hit with Desync all the time. My desync issues though are directly related to my internet connection though. To be able to measure how likely I'm suffering desync I use the following command at the command prompt. Ping "the servers IP" -t That keeps a constantly repeated ping going and when I see about 3 or more request timed out I know my risk of currently undergoing desyc is high. Sometimes my client recovers and I can continue playing. Other times I just sits there and pretends like it's working and never recovers. Other times it pretends to work for a minute or two and then disconects. Trying to open up the market is usually a good way for me to get the client to either catch up or disconect. If I'm in a bad situation and I see that my client is starting to act funny and my little danger thermometer is showing high risk I just close the client and log back in. This has saved my ship many times. Sadly drones don't fair so well. Needless to say until this get's fixed I won't go near lowsec or 0.0 until I can get this fixed. I think the client could handle this better but in my case the blame doesn't reside entirely with CCP.
SirMolly	Posted - 2008.02.24 10:22:00 - [52] Well, this thread is now 1 month old. I'm starting to wonder if a dev is ever going to reply. Maybe CCP is soooo busy fixing the DESYNC BUG, they simply have no time to reply....
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.02.24 11:38:00 - [53] Originally by: SirMolly Well, this thread is now 1 month old. I'm starting to wonder if a dev is ever going to reply. Maybe CCP is soooo busy fixing the DESYNC BUG, they simply have no time to reply.... ...or maybe they just don't want to cater to your attitude.... -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds

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