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HIC ??? is balance gone again now?

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matt way Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:13:00 - [31] Originally by: Ralara Edited by: Ralara on 26/01/2008 09:17:24 Originally by: chinook After reading news post on powers of HICs I am wondering if pirates have gained the upper hand again with this new tool. I guess I can expect to see one at every gate now when traveling thru 0.0. I know pirates have been whining that pilots manage to get away from them regularly. But hey I should have at least 60% chance of escape. Admitidly I know little about HICs and evasion tactics when encountering them. Im thinking tho that 0.0 has become even more dangerous for solo ventures. Forcing even more players to stay in Empire or join the big players in 0.0. Great news for some, but troubling for others. I think Ill be able to carry on with some 0.0 adventures but will have to change tactics a bit ,maybee use faster, cheaper tec1 ships. Nothing a normal interdictor or giant warp bubble couldn't have done before.... I've not been caught in a gatecamp with a heavy dictor in it yet... Also... points at sig That's a wicked sig. Loved that movie.
Valan The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:32:00 - [32] Originally by: chinook Not whining about HICs just looking for some info on escape tactics. Avoiding lock seems to be best tactic ive heard so far. 0.0 is dangerous but fun and I enjoy close escape sometimes more than large lag fest battle. I have 2 main toons and this one enjoys the solo life . Even if it seems to be kinda hard on ships. They're slow and their DPS is crap. If they increase speed the tank begins to suffer. If they have more than one ship you were dead anyway. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:38:00 - [33] Anyone saying Hictors don't work well due to low scanning resolution either has no clue or uses them in the right way but is frantically trying to keep his mouth shut and enjoying the overpoweredness of it. Trying to ECM/damp them doesn't work because it takes you the same time to start LOCKING the HIC, to jam it, as it takes it's friends to lock you... and they started earlier. Atm HIC's essentially are bubblecamps in low sec; only very fast ships can escape, regardless of their defenses (travelfit)and to me that's just a tad too much. It makes low sec even less intersting for players to go to and I'm sure most of us would see low sec being used MORE, not less. They designed HIC's to work in a specific situation but kinda forgot, in true CCP style, the effects it would have in other situations. Balancing is needed imo.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:51:00 - [34] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 26/01/2008 10:52:27 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 26/01/2008 10:51:24 Thread=Various 0.0 alliance types complaining "uh-oh...we got fixed bubbles, dictors, and HIC's for choking off nullsec...but our epeen boosting MOM/carriers can get caught in losec. That can't possibly be right...how unfair...how on earth will we continue our relocation to empire with this madness. What on earth will our mission running transport alts do now (ooops...forgot the CTA ). And gasp--we might actually have to scout our losec operations! Quick...to the forums!" You won't see one on every gate. They are not that common despite the epic exaggeration. They are easily countered. And just as in 0.0...if you head into losec with no scout-you become just another nut for the squirrels. Furthermore....rabble rabble rabble "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:51:00 - [35] So ECM'ng heavy interdicotrs is flawed because its wingmen can lock you?
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin So ECM'ng heavy interdicotrs is flawed because its wingmen can lock you? No, it just means that people saying "HAHAHA L2P, you can jam them so they're not overpowered" are not telling the whole story.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:58:00 - [37] Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 26/01/2008 10:57:48 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin So ECM'ng heavy interdicotrs is flawed because its wingmen can lock you? No, it just means that people saying "HAHAHA L2P, you can jam/neut them so they're not overpowered" are not telling the whole story. So an 8pt scram lachesis was perfectly fine?
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:04:00 - [38] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 26/01/2008 11:05:14 really feels as you're trying very hard to defend your style of play. But to answer your question; to me, no. Thing is ofcourse that a recon can't exactly tank sentries, where a broadsword can.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:08:00 - [39] Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 26/01/2008 11:04:56 really feels as you're trying very hard to defend your style of play. But to answer your question; to me, no. Thing is ofcourse that a recon can't exactly tank sentries, where a broadsword can. I don't operate in lowsec and due to a recent corp change I am not a pirate also I've never owned a heavy dictor. also the 8 pt lachesis is achievable depending on if you want to shell out for Sansha/dommination warp scrams which are 15m a pop a little expensive but not impossible like most wacky faction setups also remote repping
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:23:00 - [40] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 26/01/2008 07:56:56 the only thing that saddens me is that they made transport ships obsolet... otherwise im completely fine with hics. no more ms camping lowsec gates 23/7 yay! If you got caught by a heavy dictor in a blockade runner you deserved to die.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:26:00 - [41] The HIC's focused scripts solved the problem of gate-camping mommyships in low-sec, which is good, but at the same time they obsoleted blockade runners and WCS's, which is bad (pirates might not agree, but there are two sides to the story...). The focused script was a knee-jerk reaction from CCP's side to a specific problem, and they didn't take the time to think about the other effects. The focused script should probably be changed to only work on capital ships... This would mean that blockade runners and WCS would still have their old effectiveness, and the mommyship camping would be countered. I don't frequent low-sec, so I haven't really got any personal involvement in the matter, but having a new feature in a game effectively removing other older features is usually a bad design as it leaves the game itself poorer. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 26/01/2008 11:05:14 really feels as you're trying very hard to defend your style of play. But to answer your question; to me, no. Thing is ofcourse that a recon can't exactly tank sentries, where a broadsword can. A recon with friends can tank sentries; a HIC that can tank sentries without friends doesn't have much DPS or ability to stop you getting back to the gate. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:42:00 - [43] Originally by: Kerfira The HIC's focused scripts solved the problem of gate-camping mommyships in low-sec, which is good, but at the same time they obsoleted blockade runners and WCS's, which is bad (pirates might not agree, but there are two sides to the story...). The focused script was a knee-jerk reaction from CCP's side to a specific problem, and they didn't take the time to think about the other effects. The focused script should probably be changed to only work on capital ships... This would mean that blockade runners and WCS would still have their old effectiveness, and the mommyship camping would be countered. I don't frequent low-sec, so I haven't really got any personal involvement in the matter, but having a new feature in a game effectively removing other older features is usually a bad design as it leaves the game itself poorer. Then how would you know what works and what doesnt? Blockade runners, properly setup, easilly gets away from heavy dictors.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:44:00 - [44] How the dictor intends to grab hold of my interceptor with its overheated MWD as it decloaks where lag lets me reach 9km/sec already LOL. Unless they also have a sensor booster rapier ^_^ --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Malcanis A recon with friends can tank sentries; a HIC that can tank sentries without friends doesn't have much DPS or ability to stop you getting back to the gate. And I guess it takes the same number of support ships to boost the recon to HIC effectiveness? --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:47:00 - [46] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Kerfira The HIC's focused scripts solved the problem of gate-camping mommyships in low-sec, which is good, but at the same time they obsoleted blockade runners and WCS's, which is bad (pirates might not agree, but there are two sides to the story...). The focused script was a knee-jerk reaction from CCP's side to a specific problem, and they didn't take the time to think about the other effects. The focused script should probably be changed to only work on capital ships... This would mean that blockade runners and WCS would still have their old effectiveness, and the mommyship camping would be countered. I don't frequent low-sec, so I haven't really got any personal involvement in the matter, but having a new feature in a game effectively removing other older features is usually a bad design as it leaves the game itself poorer. Then how would you know what works and what doesnt? Blockade runners, properly setup, easilly gets away from heavy dictors. I should probably have said, "I don't frequent low-sec ANYMORE" (as there's no point to it anymore, **ty potential income and too many pirates these days). Originally by:** CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:13:00 - [47] IMO, the 30km range is just wayyyy too much. 15 sounds more like it.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:17:00 - [48] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Malcanis A recon with friends can tank sentries; a HIC that can tank sentries without friends doesn't have much DPS or ability to stop you getting back to the gate. And I guess it takes the same number of support ships to boost the recon to HIC effectiveness? Well that I don't know. I don't imagine it would take all that much support though. A med/large armour/shield rep mounted on 3 or 4 of your BC/BS buddies would probably do the trick. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:18:00 - [49] The only problem with heavy dictors is they probably need to lose one hardpoint so theyre not just hacs with supertank and megascram. But aside from that, they have a role to fill and they do it, which is pretty much what T2 ships are sposed to be about. Plus, they still have to lock you... _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
General StarScream Borg Collective hive mind	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:20:00 - [50] I think hics should only be able to scram cap ships. Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
La Dudette	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:22:00 - [51] Why do you guys keep on complaining about transport ships being useless? Fit your blockade runners properly, the hictor won't be able to lock you in time. No nerf required, move along.
astowv Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:24:00 - [52] is teh balance gone again ? I should have a 60% chance of killing all shuttles going trough my systems. ----
QuantumX Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:31:00 - [53] Wow so much whine and cheese about lowsec not being safe as it use to be, was it ever suppose to be safe? Hic's are good but they do a specific job, problem is people just use to stack all lows with warp core stabs in low sec and this I doubt what CCP intended. I'm sure the miniority of people whining here will eventually get their way, but personally warp core stabs were never suppose to be a get out of jail free card. I persoanlly hope CCP stop listening to the MINORITY of people on these forums, maybe about <1% of the activeplayer base and leave it as it is, HIC's are fine. Has is the EvE way, everything has a counter, now get off lazy butts and find it and use it. ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:32:00 - [54] Originally by: QuantumX Has is the EvE way, everything has a counter, now get off lazy butts and find it and use it. True. And since Trinity the best counter against low sec camps is a bigger blob. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:34:00 - [55] I would be fine with HICs if they could not be remote boosted with the focused script loaded (which was probably it's intended function in the first place). Then again, it's still pretty crappy that a full rack of warp core stabs (which gimps your ship in SO many ways already) is basically worthless now. Most specialized fittings require a specialized counter on a ship devoting lots of slots to doing it, and even then does not completely counter the opponent. Yet a HIC only needs the one module to 100% disable a potential 8 slots and that just tastes of blech. Some real drawbacks would not be uncalled for, IMO. Oh and there are HICs all over the place you dirty liars. LOL. Okay, so not at every gate but a few in every region at any given time. And it's fairly obvious why. Keep those i-stabbed frigs handy .
Kyoto Luyi Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:39:00 - [56] The easy way to tell if something is overpowered or not is by how many people are using it and having 'a lot' of success with it... FOTM usually means "This thing kicks arse - quick, use it a lot before they nerf it"
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:42:00 - [57] Originally by: La Dudette Why do you guys keep on complaining about transport ships being useless? Fit your blockade runners properly, the hictor won't be able to lock you in time. No nerf required, move along. Ok, so i guess all the posts about insta-locking hictors when properly fitted is just BS and rumormongering right? I dont usually complain about ships, but I'm holding out on my low sec mission running from now on in because it's not going to be worth the effort anymore. I could stand being gatecrashed in-mission or stomped at a gatecamp by a group well-prepared for a travel fit, but there's too much irony in the HIC's focus script for me to keep up with that side of the game. No, no getting my stuff coz there's ****loads more i can make money from. But I remember the complaints "Waah, WCS is overpowered because there's no counter to someone fully rigged up with WCS if you're a solo pirate", and now there's a "if your solo, you're dead" button. If CCP is taking PVP in this direction, fine, I'll join the masses of hi-sec dwellers. Why aren't I a low-sec/0.0 dweller? Apparently playing for an hour a night isn't enough for most alliances. So I move to hi sec and get called a poofter carebear and whatnot. Righto. So here's the situation: I can't enter low/0.0 sec now for the following reasons. A. Because my TZ sucks and more because I can't afford more than an hour a night (ergo, no defence posts), and therefore I get kicked from any alliance. B. Because as a solo pilot, there's now an "I win" button. As I said, I'm not one to complain, I've adapted now and I'm moving on,, but I'll laugh at the irony ensuing from people calling me weak and unable to cope with the "pressures" of low sec when they themselves called WCS and WTZ an "I win" button. Improve Market Competition!
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:57:00 - [58] Edited by: Gamesguy on 26/01/2008 12:57:23 Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Ok, so i guess all the posts about insta-locking hictors when properly fitted is just BS and rumormongering right? Yep, I tested this. Me in a blockade runner jumping into an alliance mate in a broadsword with 4 sensor boosters and lock time script loaded. He could not activate his focused scram on me before I warped away. Quote: snip a bunch of uninformed crap WCS was nerfed because you could fit one or two on your combat ship, and then leave if things arent going your way, and this impacted your combat performance by very little. Not because of ppl fitting 7 stabs on their travel setup BS.
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.01.26 13:08:00 - [59] Edited by: Verite Rendition on 26/01/2008 13:09:04 Originally by: Kerfira The HIC's focused scripts solved the problem of gate-camping mommyships in low-sec, which is good, but at the same time they obsoleted blockade runners and WCS's, which is bad (pirates might not agree, but there are two sides to the story...). The focused script was a knee-jerk reaction from CCP's side to a specific problem, and they didn't take the time to think about the other effects. The focused script should probably be changed to only work on capital ships... This would mean that blockade runners and WCS would still have their old effectiveness, and the mommyship camping would be countered. My thoughts exactly. It's a great solution for locking down caps in low-sec and 0.0, but an infinite point scrambler against sub-capitals? It puts too much power in one ship, with a single module negating the ability to get away like that. Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 26/01/2008 12:57:23 Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Ok, so i guess all the posts about insta-locking hictors when properly fitted is just BS and rumormongering right? Yep, I tested this. Me in a blockade runner jumping into an alliance mate in a broadsword with 4 sensor boosters and lock time script loaded. He could not activate his focused scram on me before I warped away. What BR and what fit? I bet you couldn't do it in a Crane with no rigs. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.01.26 13:29:00 - [60] Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 26/01/2008 13:23:19 Originally by: Verite Rendition What BR and what fit? I bet you couldn't do it in a Crane with no rigs. Viator, 2x inertia, 1x nano, 2x polys. I've flown this ship past countless dictors and gatecamps and have never died. Crane with 2x agility rigs and 2x nanos is only .5 second slower on the align, still not catchable. With polys it aligns just as fast as the viator. Specifing no rigs is silly, everything more expensive than a t1 cruiser is rigged these days. And if you're hauling valuable stuff, why the hell wouldnt you rig your transport? Go check the prices on polycarb rigs. They're 50mil+ each, the Crane is 20mil. Rigs are supposed to be extra ways to customize a ship, they should never be required just to do something, especially when the rigs you need add up to 5x the cost of the damn ship. If you need rigs to do something, there's a balance problem. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map

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