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HIC ??? is balance gone again now?

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chinook	Posted - 2008.01.26 04:42:00 - [1] After reading news post on powers of HICs I am wondering if pirates have gained the upper hand again with this new tool. I guess I can expect to see one at every gate now when traveling thru 0.0. I know pirates have been whining that pilots manage to get away from them regularly. But hey I should have at least 60% chance of escape. Admitidly I know little about HICs and evasion tactics when encountering them. Im thinking tho that 0.0 has become even more dangerous for solo ventures. Forcing even more players to stay in Empire or join the big players in 0.0. Great news for some, but troubling for others. I think Ill be able to carry on with some 0.0 adventures but will have to change tactics a bit ,maybee use faster, cheaper tec1 ships.
Ogdru Jahad Amarr Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.01.26 04:49:00 - [2] ADAPT or.... i have your stuph? - At last the Gallente can finally lay claim to saying... "my DICtor" is bigger than yours.
vr0p Gallente Hatori Mining Services DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2008.01.26 04:54:00 - [3] Larger ships like BC/BS can no longer get through gate camps by slapping on 8 warp core stabs now. With nano/inertial stabs on a cruiser, you can likely get through though. I think it's a change for the better. It makes moving Battleships a lot more troublesome in lowsec/0.0, which producers can ask a lot more for them in said areas :D
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.26 04:55:00 - [4] Originally by: chinook But hey I should have at least 60% chance of escape. Where did this number come from
Sythyss	Posted - 2008.01.26 04:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: chinook But hey I should have at least 60% chance of escape. Where did this number come from out of his arse
Voodoo Dog Gallente Pilots of the Apocolypse	Posted - 2008.01.26 05:08:00 - [6] 60%? lmao, i have never had thatbut it would be sweet, could i perhaps borrow the OP's rose colored glass's, maybe, please? *I refuse to have a sig before I have a face*
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.26 05:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Sythyss Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: chinook But hey I should have at least 60% chance of escape. Where did this number come from out of his arse yeah but I need him to say it for arguments sake
chinook	Posted - 2008.01.26 05:29:00 - [8]
chinook	Posted - 2008.01.26 05:37:00 - [9] Ha! your welcome to my ass if you can catch it . 60% is just a number out of my hat. I could just be dreaming. If I cant get away that often I take along help (sometimes that ends badly also) or I dont travel. Im not stupid . I dont mind losing ships but dont give them away to bored pirates if i can help it. Try to be civil Its guys like you that make forums a waste of my time.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2008.01.26 05:44:00 - [10] I assume you are talking about their infinite strength warp scrambling ability against one target. Break his target lock is your best bet. You can use ECM or Dampeners to do that. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Kobushi	Posted - 2008.01.26 05:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: chinook But hey I should have at least 60% chance of escape. Where did this number come from did you know that 73.69% of all internet statistics are invented(including this one).
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.26 05:49:00 - [12] It is actually very difficult for one of these things to catch most blockade runners. The alternative is, of course, for them to nerf the HIC. In which case, I'm sure you'll be back here whining when you get popped by the pirate MoM camps that were even harder to counter than the HIC. Karlemgne
011010110101101	Posted - 2008.01.26 05:59:00 - [13] so much misninformation in this thread in 0.0, there have been bubbles for a long time
chinook	Posted - 2008.01.26 06:03:00 - [14] Not whining about HICs just looking for some info on escape tactics. Avoiding lock seems to be best tactic ive heard so far. 0.0 is dangerous but fun and I enjoy close escape sometimes more than large lag fest battle. I have 2 main toons and this one enjoys the solo life . Even if it seems to be kinda hard on ships.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2008.01.26 06:05:00 - [15] HICs == Just one more reason to blob The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.26 06:18:00 - [16] Heavy Dictors should require dictors IV in the first place what was ccp thinking?
Kessiaan	Posted - 2008.01.26 06:30:00 - [17] Edited by: Kessiaan on 26/01/2008 06:31:47 Welcome to last month Anyway, with the new HICs your travel fits will need to be rethought. Warp core stabs are effectively useless so if you want to move big, slow ships through lowsec you absolutely must use an alt scout, and even then it's still risky if you're going a long distance. Smaller ships can fit your favorite mix of nanofibers, inertia stabs, and polycarbs, along with a cloak and a microwarp drive and can run most of the camps. The 10 BS's-all-remote-sensor-boosting-one-tackler gateacamps of doom are still 10 BS's-all-remote-sensor-boosting-one-tackler gatecamps of doom so you still need the alt scout if you want to be totally safe (or at least as safe as one can be in a game like Eve) - someone has to be the first in an hour to die. 0.0 camps are still pretty much the same as they've always been - if you could run them before you can still run them now. HICs have a truly massive tank for a ship of their size, unless they're solo you'll need a blob to take them down, even with the gate guns pounded on them. I hear carrier blob hotdrops work well. Make sure to bring extra cheese dip. Basically any ship that could only move around in relative safety by slapping on a whole bunch of warp core stabs is screwed if you play with only one account - basically non-blockade-runner haulers and any ship larger than a cruiser. Everyone else can adapt & overcome. ----- My in Eve Profile My BattleClinic Page
Karlemgne Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.26 06:31:00 - [18] Originally by: chinook Not whining about HICs just looking for some info on escape tactics. Avoiding lock seems to be best tactic ive heard so far. 0.0 is dangerous but fun and I enjoy close escape sometimes more than large lag fest battle. I have 2 main toons and this one enjoys the solo life . Even if it seems to be kinda hard on ships. Are you talking about 0.0? Regular dictors can't be countered either, and they've been in 0.0 for a long time. As for escape methods many come to mind. ECM, Heavy Neuts, Agility Mods, and a scout? -Karlemgne
chinook	Posted - 2008.01.26 06:50:00 - [19] Anyway, with the new HICs your travel fits will need to be rethought. Warp core stabs are effectively useless so if you want to move big, slow ships through lowsec you absolutely must use an alt scout, and even then it's still risky if you're going a long distance. Smaller ships can fit your favorite mix of nanofibers, inertia stabs, and polycarbs, along with a cloak and a microwarp drive and can run most of the camps. The 10 BS's-all-remote-sensor-boosting-one-tackler gateacamps of doom are still 10 BS's-all-remote-sensor-boosting-one-tackler gatecamps of doom so you still need the alt scout if you want to be totally safe (or at least as safe as one can be in a game like Eve) - someone has to be the first in an hour to die. 0.0 camps are still pretty much the same as they've always been - if you could run them before you can still run them now. HICs have a truly massive tank for a ship of their size, unless they're solo you'll need a blob to take them down, even with the gate guns pounded on them. I hear carrier blob hotdrops work well. Make sure to bring extra cheese dip. Basically any ship that could only move around in relative safety by slapping on a whole bunch of warp core stabs is screwed if you play with only one account - basically non-blockade-runner haulers and any ship larger than a cruiser. Everyone else can adapt & overcome. good summary thanx for that
Westly Synpa GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:06:00 - [20] The only thing that would work truely is ecm bursts leaves a bit to be desirted but you can be aligned and warp away if they are in range of the burst.
Malken Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:32:00 - [21] Originally by: chinook But hey I should have at least 60% chance of escape. if brain is connected you will have 100% chance of escaping. if not then well you deserve to be screwed over tbh
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:50:00 - [22] To the op. The same ships that ran the low sec camps before are still running them and the same ships that get wtfpwnd are still getting wtfpwnd. Hactors are just fine. Originally by: Nice Guy This means that the writer epicaly fails at english. Irony. So delicious.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Zeba To the op. The same ships that ran the low sec camps before are still running them and the same ships that get wtfpwnd are still getting wtfpwnd. Hactors are just fine. not the skills for them
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:55:00 - [24] the only thing that saddens me is that they made transport ships obsolet...
1v1 Cake Factory	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:56:00 - [25] Looks like we are close to 1 whine about HIC's per day now. In 2 months we will hit 5 whines per day. In 4 months, with 10 whines per day posted about those monstrous HIC's CCP will nerf them for empire use reducing their infinite points down to just 3! Wait and see. In the meantime, enjoy! Cake Factory: Highly Researched Capital & BS BPC Packages
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.26 07:58:00 - [26] Originally by: 1v1 Looks like we are close to 1 whine about HIC's per day now. In 2 months we will hit 5 whines per day. In 4 months, with 10 whines per day posted about those monstrous HIC's CCP will nerf them for empire use reducing their infinite points down to just 3! Wait and see. In the meantime, enjoy! 3 points would still be damn good.. also in 0.0 you use the bubble more often anyway..
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:07:00 - [27] Originally by: chinook After reading news post on powers of HICs I am wondering if pirates have gained the upper hand again with this new tool. I guess I can expect to see one at every gate now when traveling thru 0.0. I know pirates have been whining that pilots manage to get away from them regularly. But hey I should have at least 60% chance of escape. Admitidly I know little about HICs and evasion tactics when encountering them. Im thinking tho that 0.0 has become even more dangerous for solo ventures. Forcing even more players to stay in Empire or join the big players in 0.0. Great news for some, but troubling for others. I think Ill be able to carry on with some 0.0 adventures but will have to change tactics a bit ,maybee use faster, cheaper tec1 ships. Nothing a normal interdictor or giant warp bubble couldn't have done before.... I've not been caught in a gatecamp with a heavy dictor in it yet... -- Sir, I don't understand why we train for ECM, sir - in a fleet battle all you got to do is press buttons. THE ENEMY CANNOT PRESS A BUTTON IF YOU DISABLE HIS LOCK. MEDIC!
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2008.01.26 09:49:00 - [28] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 26/01/2008 07:56:56 the only thing that saddens me is that they made transport ships obsolet... otherwise im completely fine with hics. no more ms camping lowsec gates 23/7 yay! They just need a higher level transport that is immune. Like a level 5 version of a blockade runner. Maybe we'll see it some day. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Everyone Dies Caldari Lucky Tampon	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:06:00 - [29] Edited by: Everyone Dies on 26/01/2008 10:06:34 Actually I think HICs should get a boost. More dps and better scan res. They aren't as good as the whinebears think they are.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:09:00 - [30] Originally by: Everyone Dies Edited by: Everyone Dies on 26/01/2008 10:06:34 Actually I think HICs should get a boost. More dps and better scan res. They aren't as good as the whinebears think they are. They were designed to take damage not make damage
matt way Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:13:00 - [31] Originally by: Ralara Edited by: Ralara on 26/01/2008 09:17:24 Originally by: chinook After reading news post on powers of HICs I am wondering if pirates have gained the upper hand again with this new tool. I guess I can expect to see one at every gate now when traveling thru 0.0. I know pirates have been whining that pilots manage to get away from them regularly. But hey I should have at least 60% chance of escape. Admitidly I know little about HICs and evasion tactics when encountering them. Im thinking tho that 0.0 has become even more dangerous for solo ventures. Forcing even more players to stay in Empire or join the big players in 0.0. Great news for some, but troubling for others. I think Ill be able to carry on with some 0.0 adventures but will have to change tactics a bit ,maybee use faster, cheaper tec1 ships. Nothing a normal interdictor or giant warp bubble couldn't have done before.... I've not been caught in a gatecamp with a heavy dictor in it yet... Also... points at sig That's a wicked sig. Loved that movie.
Valan The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:32:00 - [32] Originally by: chinook Not whining about HICs just looking for some info on escape tactics. Avoiding lock seems to be best tactic ive heard so far. 0.0 is dangerous but fun and I enjoy close escape sometimes more than large lag fest battle. I have 2 main toons and this one enjoys the solo life . Even if it seems to be kinda hard on ships. They're slow and their DPS is crap. If they increase speed the tank begins to suffer. If they have more than one ship you were dead anyway. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:38:00 - [33] Anyone saying Hictors don't work well due to low scanning resolution either has no clue or uses them in the right way but is frantically trying to keep his mouth shut and enjoying the overpoweredness of it. Trying to ECM/damp them doesn't work because it takes you the same time to start LOCKING the HIC, to jam it, as it takes it's friends to lock you... and they started earlier. Atm HIC's essentially are bubblecamps in low sec; only very fast ships can escape, regardless of their defenses (travelfit)and to me that's just a tad too much. It makes low sec even less intersting for players to go to and I'm sure most of us would see low sec being used MORE, not less. They designed HIC's to work in a specific situation but kinda forgot, in true CCP style, the effects it would have in other situations. Balancing is needed imo.
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:51:00 - [34] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 26/01/2008 10:52:27 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 26/01/2008 10:51:24 Thread=Various 0.0 alliance types complaining "uh-oh...we got fixed bubbles, dictors, and HIC's for choking off nullsec...but our epeen boosting MOM/carriers can get caught in losec. That can't possibly be right...how unfair...how on earth will we continue our relocation to empire with this madness. What on earth will our mission running transport alts do now (ooops...forgot the CTA ). And gasp--we might actually have to scout our losec operations! Quick...to the forums!" You won't see one on every gate. They are not that common despite the epic exaggeration. They are easily countered. And just as in 0.0...if you head into losec with no scout-you become just another nut for the squirrels. Furthermore....rabble rabble rabble "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:51:00 - [35] So ECM'ng heavy interdicotrs is flawed because its wingmen can lock you?
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin So ECM'ng heavy interdicotrs is flawed because its wingmen can lock you? No, it just means that people saying "HAHAHA L2P, you can jam them so they're not overpowered" are not telling the whole story.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.26 10:58:00 - [37] Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 26/01/2008 10:57:48 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin So ECM'ng heavy interdicotrs is flawed because its wingmen can lock you? No, it just means that people saying "HAHAHA L2P, you can jam/neut them so they're not overpowered" are not telling the whole story. So an 8pt scram lachesis was perfectly fine?
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:04:00 - [38] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 26/01/2008 11:05:14 really feels as you're trying very hard to defend your style of play. But to answer your question; to me, no. Thing is ofcourse that a recon can't exactly tank sentries, where a broadsword can.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Eve's Elite Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:08:00 - [39] Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 26/01/2008 11:04:56 really feels as you're trying very hard to defend your style of play. But to answer your question; to me, no. Thing is ofcourse that a recon can't exactly tank sentries, where a broadsword can. I don't operate in lowsec and due to a recent corp change I am not a pirate also I've never owned a heavy dictor. also the 8 pt lachesis is achievable depending on if you want to shell out for Sansha/dommination warp scrams which are 15m a pop a little expensive but not impossible like most wacky faction setups also remote repping
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:23:00 - [40] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 26/01/2008 07:56:56 the only thing that saddens me is that they made transport ships obsolet... otherwise im completely fine with hics. no more ms camping lowsec gates 23/7 yay! If you got caught by a heavy dictor in a blockade runner you deserved to die.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:26:00 - [41] The HIC's focused scripts solved the problem of gate-camping mommyships in low-sec, which is good, but at the same time they obsoleted blockade runners and WCS's, which is bad (pirates might not agree, but there are two sides to the story...). The focused script was a knee-jerk reaction from CCP's side to a specific problem, and they didn't take the time to think about the other effects. The focused script should probably be changed to only work on capital ships... This would mean that blockade runners and WCS would still have their old effectiveness, and the mommyship camping would be countered. I don't frequent low-sec, so I haven't really got any personal involvement in the matter, but having a new feature in a game effectively removing other older features is usually a bad design as it leaves the game itself poorer. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Tzar'rim Edited by: Tzar''rim on 26/01/2008 11:05:14 really feels as you're trying very hard to defend your style of play. But to answer your question; to me, no. Thing is ofcourse that a recon can't exactly tank sentries, where a broadsword can. A recon with friends can tank sentries; a HIC that can tank sentries without friends doesn't have much DPS or ability to stop you getting back to the gate. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:42:00 - [43] Originally by: Kerfira The HIC's focused scripts solved the problem of gate-camping mommyships in low-sec, which is good, but at the same time they obsoleted blockade runners and WCS's, which is bad (pirates might not agree, but there are two sides to the story...). The focused script was a knee-jerk reaction from CCP's side to a specific problem, and they didn't take the time to think about the other effects. The focused script should probably be changed to only work on capital ships... This would mean that blockade runners and WCS would still have their old effectiveness, and the mommyship camping would be countered. I don't frequent low-sec, so I haven't really got any personal involvement in the matter, but having a new feature in a game effectively removing other older features is usually a bad design as it leaves the game itself poorer. Then how would you know what works and what doesnt? Blockade runners, properly setup, easilly gets away from heavy dictors.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:44:00 - [44] How the dictor intends to grab hold of my interceptor with its overheated MWD as it decloaks where lag lets me reach 9km/sec already LOL. Unless they also have a sensor booster rapier ^_^ --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Malcanis A recon with friends can tank sentries; a HIC that can tank sentries without friends doesn't have much DPS or ability to stop you getting back to the gate. And I guess it takes the same number of support ships to boost the recon to HIC effectiveness? --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.01.26 11:47:00 - [46] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Kerfira The HIC's focused scripts solved the problem of gate-camping mommyships in low-sec, which is good, but at the same time they obsoleted blockade runners and WCS's, which is bad (pirates might not agree, but there are two sides to the story...). The focused script was a knee-jerk reaction from CCP's side to a specific problem, and they didn't take the time to think about the other effects. The focused script should probably be changed to only work on capital ships... This would mean that blockade runners and WCS would still have their old effectiveness, and the mommyship camping would be countered. I don't frequent low-sec, so I haven't really got any personal involvement in the matter, but having a new feature in a game effectively removing other older features is usually a bad design as it leaves the game itself poorer. Then how would you know what works and what doesnt? Blockade runners, properly setup, easilly gets away from heavy dictors. I should probably have said, "I don't frequent low-sec ANYMORE" (as there's no point to it anymore, **ty potential income and too many pirates these days). Originally by:** CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:13:00 - [47] IMO, the 30km range is just wayyyy too much. 15 sounds more like it.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:17:00 - [48] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Malcanis A recon with friends can tank sentries; a HIC that can tank sentries without friends doesn't have much DPS or ability to stop you getting back to the gate. And I guess it takes the same number of support ships to boost the recon to HIC effectiveness? Well that I don't know. I don't imagine it would take all that much support though. A med/large armour/shield rep mounted on 3 or 4 of your BC/BS buddies would probably do the trick. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:18:00 - [49] The only problem with heavy dictors is they probably need to lose one hardpoint so theyre not just hacs with supertank and megascram. But aside from that, they have a role to fill and they do it, which is pretty much what T2 ships are sposed to be about. Plus, they still have to lock you... _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
General StarScream Borg Collective hive mind	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:20:00 - [50] I think hics should only be able to scram cap ships. Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
La Dudette	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:22:00 - [51] Why do you guys keep on complaining about transport ships being useless? Fit your blockade runners properly, the hictor won't be able to lock you in time. No nerf required, move along.
astowv Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:24:00 - [52] is teh balance gone again ? I should have a 60% chance of killing all shuttles going trough my systems. ----
QuantumX Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:31:00 - [53] Wow so much whine and cheese about lowsec not being safe as it use to be, was it ever suppose to be safe? Hic's are good but they do a specific job, problem is people just use to stack all lows with warp core stabs in low sec and this I doubt what CCP intended. I'm sure the miniority of people whining here will eventually get their way, but personally warp core stabs were never suppose to be a get out of jail free card. I persoanlly hope CCP stop listening to the MINORITY of people on these forums, maybe about <1% of the activeplayer base and leave it as it is, HIC's are fine. Has is the EvE way, everything has a counter, now get off lazy butts and find it and use it. ========================== I came i saw i got blown up!
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:32:00 - [54] Originally by: QuantumX Has is the EvE way, everything has a counter, now get off lazy butts and find it and use it. True. And since Trinity the best counter against low sec camps is a bigger blob. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:34:00 - [55] I would be fine with HICs if they could not be remote boosted with the focused script loaded (which was probably it's intended function in the first place). Then again, it's still pretty crappy that a full rack of warp core stabs (which gimps your ship in SO many ways already) is basically worthless now. Most specialized fittings require a specialized counter on a ship devoting lots of slots to doing it, and even then does not completely counter the opponent. Yet a HIC only needs the one module to 100% disable a potential 8 slots and that just tastes of blech. Some real drawbacks would not be uncalled for, IMO. Oh and there are HICs all over the place you dirty liars. LOL. Okay, so not at every gate but a few in every region at any given time. And it's fairly obvious why. Keep those i-stabbed frigs handy .
Kyoto Luyi Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:39:00 - [56] The easy way to tell if something is overpowered or not is by how many people are using it and having 'a lot' of success with it... FOTM usually means "This thing kicks arse - quick, use it a lot before they nerf it"
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:42:00 - [57] Originally by: La Dudette Why do you guys keep on complaining about transport ships being useless? Fit your blockade runners properly, the hictor won't be able to lock you in time. No nerf required, move along. Ok, so i guess all the posts about insta-locking hictors when properly fitted is just BS and rumormongering right? I dont usually complain about ships, but I'm holding out on my low sec mission running from now on in because it's not going to be worth the effort anymore. I could stand being gatecrashed in-mission or stomped at a gatecamp by a group well-prepared for a travel fit, but there's too much irony in the HIC's focus script for me to keep up with that side of the game. No, no getting my stuff coz there's ****loads more i can make money from. But I remember the complaints "Waah, WCS is overpowered because there's no counter to someone fully rigged up with WCS if you're a solo pirate", and now there's a "if your solo, you're dead" button. If CCP is taking PVP in this direction, fine, I'll join the masses of hi-sec dwellers. Why aren't I a low-sec/0.0 dweller? Apparently playing for an hour a night isn't enough for most alliances. So I move to hi sec and get called a poofter carebear and whatnot. Righto. So here's the situation: I can't enter low/0.0 sec now for the following reasons. A. Because my TZ sucks and more because I can't afford more than an hour a night (ergo, no defence posts), and therefore I get kicked from any alliance. B. Because as a solo pilot, there's now an "I win" button. As I said, I'm not one to complain, I've adapted now and I'm moving on,, but I'll laugh at the irony ensuing from people calling me weak and unable to cope with the "pressures" of low sec when they themselves called WCS and WTZ an "I win" button. Improve Market Competition!
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 12:57:00 - [58] Edited by: Gamesguy on 26/01/2008 12:57:23 Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Ok, so i guess all the posts about insta-locking hictors when properly fitted is just BS and rumormongering right? Yep, I tested this. Me in a blockade runner jumping into an alliance mate in a broadsword with 4 sensor boosters and lock time script loaded. He could not activate his focused scram on me before I warped away. Quote: snip a bunch of uninformed crap WCS was nerfed because you could fit one or two on your combat ship, and then leave if things arent going your way, and this impacted your combat performance by very little. Not because of ppl fitting 7 stabs on their travel setup BS.
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.01.26 13:08:00 - [59] Edited by: Verite Rendition on 26/01/2008 13:09:04 Originally by: Kerfira The HIC's focused scripts solved the problem of gate-camping mommyships in low-sec, which is good, but at the same time they obsoleted blockade runners and WCS's, which is bad (pirates might not agree, but there are two sides to the story...). The focused script was a knee-jerk reaction from CCP's side to a specific problem, and they didn't take the time to think about the other effects. The focused script should probably be changed to only work on capital ships... This would mean that blockade runners and WCS would still have their old effectiveness, and the mommyship camping would be countered. My thoughts exactly. It's a great solution for locking down caps in low-sec and 0.0, but an infinite point scrambler against sub-capitals? It puts too much power in one ship, with a single module negating the ability to get away like that. Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 26/01/2008 12:57:23 Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Ok, so i guess all the posts about insta-locking hictors when properly fitted is just BS and rumormongering right? Yep, I tested this. Me in a blockade runner jumping into an alliance mate in a broadsword with 4 sensor boosters and lock time script loaded. He could not activate his focused scram on me before I warped away. What BR and what fit? I bet you couldn't do it in a Crane with no rigs. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.01.26 13:29:00 - [60] Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 26/01/2008 13:23:19 Originally by: Verite Rendition What BR and what fit? I bet you couldn't do it in a Crane with no rigs. Viator, 2x inertia, 1x nano, 2x polys. I've flown this ship past countless dictors and gatecamps and have never died. Crane with 2x agility rigs and 2x nanos is only .5 second slower on the align, still not catchable. With polys it aligns just as fast as the viator. Specifing no rigs is silly, everything more expensive than a t1 cruiser is rigged these days. And if you're hauling valuable stuff, why the hell wouldnt you rig your transport? Go check the prices on polycarb rigs. They're 50mil+ each, the Crane is 20mil. Rigs are supposed to be extra ways to customize a ship, they should never be required just to do something, especially when the rigs you need add up to 5x the cost of the damn ship. If you need rigs to do something, there's a balance problem. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Lt Angus Caldari the united Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.26 13:41:00 - [61] well we need scan res rigs to catch you Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.26 13:45:00 - [62] Originally by: Verite Rendition Go check the prices on polycarb rigs. They're 50mil+ each, the Crane is 20mil. Rigs are supposed to be extra ways to customize a ship, they should never be required just to do something, especially when the rigs you need add up to 5x the cost of the damn ship. If you need rigs to do something, there's a balance problem. Polycarbons aren't required. They help if you run into a well prepared gatecamp with remote repping, remote sensor boosting and most likely, a whole lotta rigs between the camping ships. But, you're right. You shouldn't have to prepare as much as the other people. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.01.26 13:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Lt Angus well we need scan res rigs to catch you Since when was it anything but but an interceptor's job to have an ultra-fast lock speed? Everything else had damn well better work hard for it.
Yosarian Hand Of The Tahiri Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:11:00 - [64] The great joy of predictable forum arguments: those that benefit say its good, those that don't say its bad. Notice all those minmatar pilots arguing for an Amarr boost...? No I thought not. Start your adventure into the unknown by looking at the winners: - Lowsec pirates (Remember, it's not a cakewalk being a lowsec pirate, it's not like they needed nerfing) - Bigger corps / alliances that can break camps when they need to (and have decent scouting / communications) - Experienced PvP'ers who have the skills and knowledge (and ISK) to counter HIC-camps adequately Then look at who loses out the most: - Solo / loner players (this is an mMo, so whether they should be encouraged is debatable) - Smaller corps / alliances that can't break camps and don't have good scouting - Newer (by definition) high sec players looking to venture out into low-sec and take their game to the next level... ie 'get some pvp'. This is a big group, and the recruiting ground of the winners above. Fair enough for the winnurs, all is good. But for the losers, the question should be, what does disadvantaging those groups do to eve? It is a real problem that the less experienced players and smaller corps trying to get out of high sec are now at considerably higher risk. Why is it a problem? You can just argue (as the benefiters are doing) that they should just 'man-up' and learn to play, and get into a decent corp. Easy to say, not quite so easy to do. The thing is, Eve needs to keep recruiting new players, not only to replace those who leave, but also to keep CCPs business alive, and hence Eve alive. If you make the game too noob unfriendly then eventually it will die. Yes blowing up noobs is fun. But if you make it too much fun, you'll run out of noobs, and then soon after run out of game.
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:12:00 - [65] Originally by: Mecinia Lua I assume you are talking about their infinite strength warp scrambling ability against one target. Break his target lock is your best bet. You can use ECM or Dampeners to do that. solution found. end thread. --------8<------------------------Cut thread here ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
Yosarian Hand Of The Tahiri Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:16:00 - [66] Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Originally by: Mecinia Lua I assume you are talking about their infinite strength warp scrambling ability against one target. Break his target lock is your best bet. You can use ECM or Dampeners to do that. solution found. end thread. --------8<------------------------Cut thread here One does wonder who else might have locked and jammed you (as well as pumped you full of hot lead) by the time you've locked and jammed the HIC?
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:21:00 - [67] Originally by: Yosarian Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Originally by: Mecinia Lua I assume you are talking about their infinite strength warp scrambling ability against one target. Break his target lock is your best bet. You can use ECM or Dampeners to do that. solution found. end thread. --------8<------------------------Cut thread here One does wonder who else might have locked and jammed you (as well as pumped you full of hot lead) by the time you've locked and jammed the HIC? You mean 2 guys can overpower 1 guy! CCP! THIS MUST BE FIXED AT ONCE! ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
Raxxius Maelstrom	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:23:00 - [68] Originally by: Ki An Polycarbons aren't required. They help if you run into a well prepared gatecamp with remote repping, remote sensor boosting and most likely, a whole lotta rigs between the camping ships. But, you're right. You shouldn't have to prepare as much as the other people. It's not that simple though is it. Rigs are horribly balanced, and have been since their introduction.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:31:00 - [69] Originally by: Raxxius Maelstrom Originally by: Ki An Polycarbons aren't required. They help if you run into a well prepared gatecamp with remote repping, remote sensor boosting and most likely, a whole lotta rigs between the camping ships. But, you're right. You shouldn't have to prepare as much as the other people. It's not that simple though is it. Rigs are horribly balanced, and have been since their introduction. Yeah. Except they made the average battleships tank 30-40% better while they did..what exactly for dps?
Hermosa Diosas The-Secret-Service Retribution.	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:37:00 - [70] To the OP everyone whos flys a HIC will have a moan and say please dont nerf it, i found a way to kill people now with little effort!! And they definately wont agree. However people who say you cn still run gate camps like before are wrong, you didnt have bubbles to stop you going to 0km, thats why CCP intorduce the warp to OKM to stop ppl getting ganked all the time and having no way of escaping, looks like they have reintroduced a way of countering this with the HIC, which is ironic. You cant have real bubbles in low sec, but now they have allowed this in 0.4 which is basically where the pirates hang out anyway, so again ironic. Its a pirates dream this ship, WCS are useless so again theres noway of escaping unless your fitting nanos etc (trouble is with this game you have to be a mind reader, bring in hot module swapping i say!), so yet again something CCP tried top fix with okm have now sort of unbalanced it yet again. So perhaps now the game is moving towards everyone nano/mwding/overdriving their ships, but again there is this problem that CCP have introduced with this which i recently discovered, when coming out from warp or jumping a gate there is a 30 second timer, if you try to run to the gate and jump using the speed methiod you get a crappy session change message which is a nightmare so if you get to the gate say 5 seconds before your ****ed, because in that time you can be dead or bumped off the gate!! so again another fubar in CCP side. This game is so unbalanced its untrue, yes they bring in counter measures to stuff but it really doesnt work or make sense liek it does as there are so many factors involved, its not just a case of fitting a module and hey your ok. If you cant use bubbles in low sec then you shouldnt be able to use HICs
Raxxius Maelstrom	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:46:00 - [71] Originally by: Sokratesz Yeah. Except they made the average battleships tank 30-40% better while they did..what exactly for dps? OMG you're right... wait, how did that do anything to counter what I said about rigs being horribly unbalanced?
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.26 14:49:00 - [72] Originally by: Hermosa Diosas However people who say you cn still run gate camps like before are wrong, you didnt have bubbles to stop you going to 0km, thats why CCP intorduce the warp to OKM to stop ppl getting ganked all the time and having no way of escaping, looks like they have reintroduced a way of countering this with the HIC, which is ironic. That is not why CCP introduced warp to zero. They did that because of the lag inherited by endless bookmark copying. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.26 15:35:00 - [73] Originally by: Raxxius Maelstrom Originally by: Sokratesz Yeah. Except they made the average battleships tank 30-40% better while they did..what exactly for dps? OMG you're right... wait, how did that do anything to counter what I said about rigs being horribly unbalanced? I was supporting you ;P
Raxxius Maelstrom	Posted - 2008.01.26 15:52:00 - [74] Originally by: Sokratesz I was supporting you ;P Sorry, ignore me!
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:52:00 - [75] Originally by: Hermosa Diosas To the OP everyone whos flys a HIC will have a moan and say please dont nerf it, i found a way to kill people now with little effort!! And they definately wont agree. However people who say you cn still run gate camps like before are wrong, you didnt have bubbles to stop you going to 0km, thats why CCP intorduce the warp to OKM to stop ppl getting ganked all the time and having no way of escaping, looks like they have reintroduced a way of countering this with the HIC, which is ironic. You cant have real bubbles in low sec, but now they have allowed this in 0.4 which is basically where the pirates hang out anyway, so again ironic. Its a pirates dream this ship, WCS are useless so again theres noway of escaping unless your fitting nanos etc (trouble is with this game you have to be a mind reader, bring in hot module swapping i say!), so yet again something CCP tried top fix with okm have now sort of unbalanced it yet again. So perhaps now the game is moving towards everyone nano/mwding/overdriving their ships, but again there is this problem that CCP have introduced with this which i recently discovered, when coming out from warp or jumping a gate there is a 30 second timer, if you try to run to the gate and jump using the speed methiod you get a crappy session change message which is a nightmare so if you get to the gate say 5 seconds before your ****ed, because in that time you can be dead or bumped off the gate!! so again another fubar in CCP side. This game is so unbalanced its untrue, yes they bring in counter measures to stuff but it really doesnt work or make sense liek it does as there are so many factors involved, its not just a case of fitting a module and hey your ok. If you cant use bubbles in low sec then you shouldnt be able to use HICs You do realize that you won't get the session change delay if you refrain from panicing after jumping into a camp. Take 30 seconds or so to size up the situation. Then, if retreating back through the gate is your best option, you can do so without the session change affecting you. And yes, warp to zero was all about reducing lag... not making it easier to escape gate camps. Now, low security will often have the same risks at gates that 0.0 has always had. People will have to be a bit better organized than they currently are to get in and out of there. However, that is due as much to the Hics ability to create a bubble as it's "infinate warp scram point ability". Either way, the key to evading them is the same as it always has been. 1: You either align and warp before they can scram you. Or... 2: If the HIC is using a bubble or being sensor boosted you need to get a bit of range from them quickly, then get into warp before the rest of his gang snags you. Or... 3: Use a cloak, and good piloting skills. This is old news for 0.0 pilots, but I'm sure it's going to take some effort on the part of low sec pilots.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:53:00 - [76] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Hermosa Diosas To the OP everyone whos flys a HIC will have a moan and say please dont nerf it, i found a way to kill people now with little effort!! And they definately wont agree. However people who say you cn still run gate camps like before are wrong, you didnt have bubbles to stop you going to 0km, thats why CCP intorduce the warp to OKM to stop ppl getting ganked all the time and having no way of escaping, looks like they have reintroduced a way of countering this with the HIC, which is ironic. You cant have real bubbles in low sec, but now they have allowed this in 0.4 which is basically where the pirates hang out anyway, so again ironic. Its a pirates dream this ship, WCS are useless so again theres noway of escaping unless your fitting nanos etc (trouble is with this game you have to be a mind reader, bring in hot module swapping i say!), so yet again something CCP tried top fix with okm have now sort of unbalanced it yet again. So perhaps now the game is moving towards everyone nano/mwding/overdriving their ships, but again there is this problem that CCP have introduced with this which i recently discovered, when coming out from warp or jumping a gate there is a 30 second timer, if you try to run to the gate and jump using the speed methiod you get a crappy session change message which is a nightmare so if you get to the gate say 5 seconds before your ****ed, because in that time you can be dead or bumped off the gate!! so again another fubar in CCP side. This game is so unbalanced its untrue, yes they bring in counter measures to stuff but it really doesnt work or make sense liek it does as there are so many factors involved, its not just a case of fitting a module and hey your ok. If you cant use bubbles in low sec then you shouldnt be able to use HICs You do realize that you won't get the session change delay if you refrain from panicing after jumping into a camp. Take 30 seconds or so to size up the situation. Then, if retreating back through the gate is your best option, you can do so without the session change affecting you. And yes, warp to zero was all about reducing lag... not making it easier to escape gate camps. Now, low security will often have the same risks at gates that 0.0 has always had. People will have to be a bit better organized than they currently are to get in and out of there. The key to evading them is the same as it always has been. 1: You either align and warp before they can scram you. Or... 2: If the HIC is being sensor boosted you need to get a bit of range from them quickly, then get into warp before the rest of his gang snags you. Or... 3: Use a cloak, and good piloting skills. This is old news for 0.0 pilots, but I'm sure it's going to take some effort on the part of low sec pilots.
McAltyalty	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:56:00 - [77] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Hermosa Diosas However people who say you cn still run gate camps like before are wrong, you didnt have bubbles to stop you going to 0km, thats why CCP intorduce the warp to OKM to stop ppl getting ganked all the time and having no way of escaping, looks like they have reintroduced a way of countering this with the HIC, which is ironic. That is not why CCP introduced warp to zero. They did that because of the lag inherited by endless bookmark copying. This is true, anyone around at the time could have told you it. People had hundreds if not more of bookmarks, lots of which were warp to 0 bookmarks.
Grunanca BLACK-FLAG	Posted - 2008.01.26 16:59:00 - [78] Originally by: chinook After reading news post on powers of HICs I am wondering if pirates have gained the upper hand again with this new tool. I guess I can expect to see one at every gate now when traveling thru 0.0. I know pirates have been whining that pilots manage to get away from them regularly. But hey I should have at least 60% chance of escape. Admitidly I know little about HICs and evasion tactics when encountering them. Im thinking tho that 0.0 has become even more dangerous for solo ventures. Forcing even more players to stay in Empire or join the big players in 0.0. Great news for some, but troubling for others. I think Ill be able to carry on with some 0.0 adventures but will have to change tactics a bit ,maybee use faster, cheaper tec1 ships. You know little about countering them a "should" escape 60% of the time? Would be like a trial account expecting to win most pvp battles... Think you should replace it with 0%, until you learn about it...
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.26 17:25:00 - [79] Originally by: Yosarian The great joy of predictable forum arguments: those that benefit say its good, those that don't say its bad. Notice all those minmatar pilots arguing for an Amarr boost...? No I thought not. Start your adventure into the unknown by looking at the winners: - Lowsec pirates (Remember, it's not a cakewalk being a lowsec pirate, it's not like they needed nerfing) - Bigger corps / alliances that can break camps when they need to (and have decent scouting / communications) - Experienced PvP'ers who have the skills and knowledge (and ISK) to counter HIC-camps adequately Then look at who loses out the most: - Solo / loner players (this is an mMo, so whether they should be encouraged is debatable) - Smaller corps / alliances that can't break camps and don't have good scouting - Newer (by definition) high sec players looking to venture out into low-sec and take their game to the next level... ie 'get some pvp'. This is a big group, and the recruiting ground of the winners above. Fair enough for the winnurs, all is good. But for the losers, the question should be, what does disadvantaging those groups do to eve? It is a real problem that the less experienced players and smaller corps trying to get out of high sec are now at considerably higher risk. Why is it a problem? You can just argue (as the benefiters are doing) that they should just 'man-up' and learn to play, and get into a decent corp. Easy to say, not quite so easy to do. The thing is, Eve needs to keep recruiting new players, not only to replace those who leave, but also to keep CCPs business alive, and hence Eve alive. If you make the game too noob unfriendly then eventually it will die. Yes blowing up noobs is fun. But if you make it too much fun, you'll run out of noobs, and then soon after run out of game. All those noobs have to do is emulate the nasty bullying aristocratic pirates in one single way: Work together. A friend in a shuttle going one jump ahead will 100.00% unfailingly defeat a HIC camp every single time. There is no possible counter, rig or fit that the HIC can use to prevent this. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.26 17:27:00 - [80] Edited by: Ogul on 26/01/2008 17:27:53 Originally by: Malcanis All those noobs have to do is emulate the nasty bullying aristocratic pirates in one single way: Work together. A friend in a shuttle going one jump ahead will 100.00% unfailingly defeat a HIC camp every single time. There is no possible counter, rig or fit that the HIC can use to prevent this. Seriously, defeating a camp means actually getting past it - not knowing about it and deciding not to go at all... --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Grunanca BLACK-FLAG	Posted - 2008.01.26 17:31:00 - [81] Originally by: Ogul Edited by: Ogul on 26/01/2008 17:27:53 Originally by: Malcanis All those noobs have to do is emulate the nasty bullying aristocratic pirates in one single way: Work together. A friend in a shuttle going one jump ahead will 100.00% unfailingly defeat a HIC camp every single time. There is no possible counter, rig or fit that the HIC can use to prevent this. MWD-Cloak-Insta Warp? Aint really that hard tbh... Seriously, defeating a camp means actually getting past it - not knowing about it and deciding not to go at all...
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.26 17:39:00 - [82] Originally by: Grunanca MWD-Cloak-Insta Warp? Aint really that hard tbh... I still think that's more of an exploit than an actual tactic. And it makes me regret training for the crane... --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Arsonin Flier	Posted - 2008.01.26 17:50:00 - [83] Originally by: chinook After reading news post on powers of HICs I am wondering if pirates have gained the upper hand again with this new tool. I guess I can expect to see one at every gate now when traveling thru 0.0. I know pirates have been whining that pilots manage to get away from them regularly. But hey I should have at least 60% chance of escape. Admitidly I know little about HICs and evasion tactics when encountering them. Im thinking tho that 0.0 has become even more dangerous for solo ventures. Forcing even more players to stay in Empire or join the big players in 0.0. Great news for some, but troubling for others. I think Ill be able to carry on with some 0.0 adventures but will have to change tactics a bit ,maybee use faster, cheaper tec1 ships. I hate to say this, but the pirates should have the upper hand. Private players should find it difficult to move through 0.0 and lowsec in their haulers. It might be a good idea to give some sort of blockade runner transport immunity to WDFG, but definetly should be an expensive/specialized module if it becomes available. Anyway, Yes. Faster/Cheaper tech 1 frigates/cruisers can be fantastic for doing your 0.0 lowsec exploration (anything with a quick align).
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2008.01.26 18:11:00 - [84] Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 26/01/2008 18:12:02 Meh, one more reason to avoid trying to get into running lowsec missions now. Not really worth the risk of dying or the lost opportunity cost if the scout turns up something bad. And to those saying there aren't many: do you REALLY think it will stay that way? And hey, at least my Viator hauls stuff in high-sec right quick :) (seriously, I was crestfallen reading the news bit about "YAY WE R GANK BRS!") ...
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.26 18:14:00 - [85] Edited by: Malcanis on 26/01/2008 18:15:33 Originally by: Ogul Edited by: Ogul on 26/01/2008 17:27:53 Originally by: Malcanis All those noobs have to do is emulate the nasty bullying aristocratic pirates in one single way: Work together. A friend in a shuttle going one jump ahead will 100.00% unfailingly defeat a HIC camp every single time. There is no possible counter, rig or fit that the HIC can use to prevent this. Seriously, defeating a camp means actually getting past it - not knowing about it and deciding not to go at all... Very often, one can go around it. I know there are bottleneck systems, but even there you can get past a HIC gang with a little imagination and good timing. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.26 18:40:00 - [86] I'd be willing to see HICs "nerfed/Buffed" on one hefty condition: Any change to HICs should make them even MORE effective at killing smartbombing motherships. So long as the Smartbombing mothership pilots are made even more upset, and hopefully quit Eve, I'm happy. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Dal Thrax Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.26 18:46:00 - [87] Originally by: Tzar'rim Anyone saying Hictors don't work well due to low scanning resolution either has no clue or uses them in the right way but is frantically trying to keep his mouth shut and enjoying the overpoweredness of it. Trying to ECM/damp them doesn't work because it takes you the same time to start LOCKING the HIC, to jam it, as it takes it's friends to lock you... and they started earlier. Atm HIC's essentially are bubblecamps in low sec; only very fast ships can escape, regardless of their defenses (travelfit)and to me that's just a tad too much. It makes low sec even less intersting for players to go to and I'm sure most of us would see low sec being used MORE, not less. They designed HIC's to work in a specific situation but kinda forgot, in true CCP style, the effects it would have in other situations. Balancing is needed imo. This poster has a point. In low sec: 1) You can now hit a bubble. 2) Have to deal with gate gun aggro in trying to kill the bubble camp. 3) Can no longer, relatively safely, use a transport ship to move cargo. Low sec is only "safer" then 0.0 in that you don't have to deal with huge alliances. Personally I think CCP should boost blockade runners by making them immune to warp scrambling but also nerf them a bit so that there is a chance these immune blockade runners can be killed before entering warp. Sig? I don't need no stinking sig...
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2008.01.26 18:50:00 - [88] Originally by: Ogdru Jahad ADAPT or.... i have your stuph? good god man , let him have his whine , just as you guys do whenever the game changes don't suit your style of play ======================== XXX
Arrgs Malevolent Intervention	Posted - 2008.01.26 18:54:00 - [89] Breaking news: Pirates get something new and cool, carebears whine. More at 11. My first video!
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.26 19:39:00 - [90] the best defense is to scout ahead and not go there if its camped or find a way around Trashed sig, Shark was here
Briareos Hecatonchires Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.26 22:57:00 - [91] Regardless of whether you feel it is a "fair" change or not, I think it's counter-productive towards the larger goal of getting more people out of empire and on the path to 0.0. If low-sec is going to be dangerous within some epsilon of bubbles, at least make it worthwhile to live there... buff low-sec mins/rats/missions to balance the new danger of moving around there.
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2008.01.26 23:03:00 - [92] Originally by: Dal Thrax Originally by: Tzar'rim Anyone saying Hictors don't work well due to low scanning resolution either has no clue or uses them in the right way but is frantically trying to keep his mouth shut and enjoying the overpoweredness of it. Trying to ECM/damp them doesn't work because it takes you the same time to start LOCKING the HIC, to jam it, as it takes it's friends to lock you... and they started earlier. Atm HIC's essentially are bubblecamps in low sec; only very fast ships can escape, regardless of their defenses (travelfit)and to me that's just a tad too much. It makes low sec even less intersting for players to go to and I'm sure most of us would see low sec being used MORE, not less. They designed HIC's to work in a specific situation but kinda forgot, in true CCP style, the effects it would have in other situations. Balancing is needed imo. This poster has a point. In low sec: 1) You can now hit a bubble. 2) Have to deal with gate gun aggro in trying to kill the bubble camp. 3) Can no longer, relatively safely, use a transport ship to move cargo. Low sec is only "safer" then 0.0 in that you don't have to deal with huge alliances. Personally I think CCP should boost blockade runners by making them immune to warp scrambling but also nerf them a bit so that there is a chance these immune blockade runners can be killed before entering warp. There are no bubbles in low-sec. In low-sec and empire you have to use the focused script, which means you can only target one ship. ------ begin signature ----- Little known Eve fact, The original race names were: Amarr Empire, Caldar Empire, Minmatar Republic, The Jovians, and The Remanaquie Federation.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.26 23:09:00 - [93] HIC doesn't make a difference if you didn't use wcs to begin with :P _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.26 23:26:00 - [94] Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 26/01/2008 23:26:33 While the pirates are busy leg humping and defending their HICs they have completely forgotten some facts, Most people who avoid low sec do so because there is the perception that flying into low sec is instant death, Now people will tell stories of the undefeatable, instant lock, super tanking, warp jamming super ship that can stop anything and it will reduce low secs potential population even more putting more pressure on the pirates. I guess we will see more "move level 4 missions and only have veldspar in high sec" threads.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.26 23:28:00 - [95] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon HIC doesn't make a difference if you didn't use wcs to begin with :P Exactly. Fit a mwd, a lot of HIC's don't. A lot of mis-informed people in this thread who obviously don't fly a HIC and/or have never been engaged by one. Mine is slow, does crap for DPS, but I can point nearly anything that comes within range in seconds. If you make it out of range, you're gone, if you jam me, you're gone... etc etc... HIC caps out very easily with the script loaded into the Warp Disrupt Genny... You can even fit more than one if you really wanted to but it'd suck your cap dry pretty fast. I wouldn't opposed to blockade runners getting a % based chance of escaping, but that'd be up to CCP. As the HIC is right now I don't see much of a problem with them, and they aren't "solo pwn mobiles" so... meh ------------ Originally by: Praxis1452 you win eve
jongalt	Posted - 2008.01.26 23:43:00 - [96] lol. unless there is a huge and vast cabal of carebears, all conspiring to nerf the HiC because they think it might be funny to **** off "pvp-oriented" pilots, there might be some merit to the possibility that the Warp Disruption Field Generator is "unbalanced". as it stands now, pilots have no commensurate increase in efficacy to deal with the Disruption Module. they have exactly the same options since before their introduction. this lack points to the merit of this (and every) discussion on the balanced nature of the Warp Disruption Generator. however, if you are a drama-queen, or a diva, like me, you might see this (and every thread on this subject) as an affront to your basic human decency. after all, the carebears dont have the moxie or the chutzpah to conspire together in a vast and huge cabal to nerf the HiC, right? ...right? -jg.
Exlegion Caldari New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.27 00:21:00 - [97] Edited by: Exlegion on 27/01/2008 00:22:33 Originally by: Malken if brain is connected you will have 100% chance of escaping. if not then well you deserve to be screwed over tbh I love these comments. In fact, what do we need counters and balance when we could use the "USE YOUR BRAIN!!1!" retort as a counter-argument for pretty much everything. Well, except when the sayer himself believes there's an inbalance. Obviously brain doesn't suffice then . Anyway, In the end low sec is emptier. And that's bad for everyone, including pirates. Too bad they can't see it at the moment. But soon enough everybody will see the signs. In the mean time, pirates, keep killin'! Everybody else, keep your battleships/indies out of low sec. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
bio spore	Posted - 2008.01.27 00:45:00 - [98] i love how all the pirates are coming on saying the hic is weak leave it alone while at the same time there all flying one flying in a gang with some one who has one or are training to fly one as soon as they can
jongalt	Posted - 2008.01.27 00:54:00 - [99] lol. perhaps there is a vast and huge cabal of pirates all conspiring to keep the HiC from being nerfed... id believe that. it would be in their best interest to argue its weakness. especially since we see NO THREADS complaining about the weak, useless heavy interdictors and the fact that they need to be boosted. but im just a drama-queen. logic doesnt apply to me. -jg.
TheWorldsGr8st The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.23 11:14:00 - [100] Originally by: Arrgs Breaking news: Pirates get something new and cool, carebears whine. More at 11. LOL Us Pirates need love aswell

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