EVE Search - The lesser of two evils

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

The lesser of two evils

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Feirik	Posted - 2008.01.26 18:58:00 - [1] In the current state of eve we have an iskselling problem, you can't deny that. The problem is very complex and entangeled with different game mechanics. There has been statements on how to solve this, but basically there is no effective way to stop the isksellers, on the other hand, if you get buyers of the isk to stop buying farmer isk, there will be no market for the sellers. So how does this really work? Avarage Joe starts playing eve, he does the tutorial and after some reading and FAQs, he draws the conclution that isk is really important in this game to get bigger ships, like most newbies do. He got his eyes on some new skillbooks and a shiney caracal. But Avarage Joe is a busy man, he got a family, a nice job, he feels the condor equiped with a t1 miner just won't cut his new goals fast enough. He wants isk, and he got dollars to pay for it! He does a little research to find someone selling isk, hmmmm a little hard to find information here. Hey, what is this? Avarage Joe's mail just blinked. He opens a mail from fffhgjwho and see the subject: CCP NEWS. Oooo, thanks alot, just what I was looking for CCP! In the mail he finds doable prices and a link to where he can get his hands on some isk so he can afford the new caracal. What just happened? An iskseller advertisor made a good few different emails most likely, then requests a trailaccount for each of these. Massproduction of iskadvertspammers in other words, the advertisor gets ingame, recives a little isk for CSPA charges, fills up some mailing lists and fires the message away. For 0 cost other than the work of getting new trail accounts. One of these mails hit our Avarage Joe and he fell for it. His isk would be removed eventually, sending his wallet in a nice negative curve as most new players invest in skillbooks, not assets that can be liquidized. Avarage Joe quits as he cant see how he can play this game with a negative wallet. Why? It's all about information, and who's giving this out. Without information, the new players can't tell whats right and whats wrong. The isk sellers are exploiting this for what its worth. Ill try to make this short from here on: What I mean with the lesser of two evils, is that you got ccps vision of having a game thats easy to try out for players. Its a great idea, free 14 day trail. But also, you got the iskselling advertisors using the same mechanic to spam these new players with isk selling adverts. Is it better to have new players come and go easy, getting spammed in every channel and mail when they try out the game, or would it be better to have a little more dedicated newbies that have gotten a trail that was slightly harder to get? When you got the new players in the game, its important to learn them whats right and wrong. Normally there isnt that much a newbie can do wrong, ibises doesnt make very good griefers, but they do buy isk. Information: You need counterspamming. Message of the day, message when you log into eve. The newbies need to learn from the start that BUYING FROM ISK SELLERS IS BAD AND YOU WILL GET PUNISHED IF YOU DO, but if you really need isk for RL-cash, you can buy Game Time Codes (GTC) from CCP which you can sell to other players ingame for their ingame iskies. That is it, black on white. CCP, it isnt pretty, but you gotta bite in the sour apple. New players will ask themselves "Hmmm why is buying isk from ccp allowed, but not buying the cheaper isk from other sellers?" As long as simple information like this isnt known by the newbies, they will just continue to buy isk from the isksellers. With the trail accounts, Id suggest a gmail approach, where you can give away 5-10 trails per full account. If an account was cought giving away trails that only resulted in spamming, it could be banned aswell. Poor gms atm, you must have the worst job every banning for nothing.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.26 19:16:00 - [2] Various easy to implement, low-impact suggestions have been made to reduce ISK spamming by trials. The idea in your final line is not new. CCP seem to lack interest in putting them in to practice. Apparently they are happy for GMs to spend much of their time banning disposable trial accounts. It's a shame -I used to while away time spent gate-camping or mining by putting a few hours into the help channels every now and then. Now I just don't bother any more, as it's virtually impossible to read past the spamflooding. Allow players to block trial accounts not in their address book. Or failing that to set a separate CSPA charge - even a noob can find 25k ISK to talk to me if he really needs to, but spammers will never spam when CSPA is in effect. Blocking trial accounts from sending more than one mail per 10 minutes to someone who does not have them in their addressbook would nail spam dead. Will anyone tell me with a straight face that this rule would be difficult to implement? That it would ruin the new player experience? Likewise blocking trial accounts from putting URLs into chat channels or malis, and from putting the same line into a channel twice in 10 minutes. All that would remain would be to allow corps to block trial players from applying. These simple changes would pretty much block out ISK spammers. Sure some spam would still be sent, but it would be physically impossible to send more than a tiny percentage of the current volume. Any one of them alone would be a major handicap to the spammers and a boon to the players. None of these changes would seriously impact new players. If a corp with a "no trials" rule want to admit a specific player, then it can switch off the rule, admit him, and switch it back on. Likewise, if I want to allow a trial player to convo me after he has taken the trouble to pay the trial CSPA or ask in local, then I can just add him to my address book, temporarily or otherwise. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.26 19:21:00 - [3] I have a 100 of these so I didn't read the whole thing however. your only cover one of the issues. the other problem is isk farmers. they inject pure 24/7 isk into the game. however it's not really in the game until it is sold to a player. However with the GTC sale you are transfering isk form one player to another. that player of which could not spend 24/7 grinding isk. SO if you GTC sale you don't infuse isk into the active market. really people if we stop buying isk and just use GTC maybe mining will be profitable again.
Feirik	Posted - 2008.01.26 19:31:00 - [4] CCP will never ban the farmers, they do the exact same as you and me, make isk. The isk sellers are getting banned, but theyre making nice profits before getting hit, hence them making new accounts all the time. Its the buyers we can influence, and there is so little known information about this. There are roumors about how big youre being punished when buying isk. Some loose the isk the bought, some get banned, some never get caught. CCP need to publish how theyre dealing with different forms of iskbuyers so people can know the consuqences. My point with the spamming is that its so unbalanced at the moment, there are so many farmers spamming, but no gms or any news saying against it, it creates an illusion of that iskbuying is allowed. If farmers cant sell their isks to isk sellers, they wont farm anymore. If isksellers cant find iskbuyers anymore, they wont buy from farmers.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.26 19:48:00 - [5] i support this thread Trashed sig, Shark was here
Feirik	Posted - 2008.01.26 21:14:00 - [6] There is no problem If youre in doubt...
Feirik	Posted - 2008.01.29 14:33:00 - [7] More fun on contracts! What these screenies have in common is that if you look at the slider (cant see all of it tho), well, the list is alot longer than shown. The first screeny even got multiple pages FULL of contracts like these. Enough to get em banned? Apparently not.
Blazing Fire Interstellar Operations Incorporated Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.29 14:44:00 - [8] There are so many suggestion to stop this spam. I wonder what CCP waits for?!? Blazing Fire CEO Interstellar Operations Incorporated Corp web site Recruitment PvPeers wanted for 0.0 Fleet ops and roaming/defense gangs Looking for experienced players Looking for new EVE players Services [Service] Killboard hosting [Service] Forum hosting [Service] Web site hosting [Service] Obelisk for rent [Service] Alliance Creation Lotteries[/b] [Lottery] [EJIL] EVE Jackpot ISK Lottery
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.29 15:23:00 - [9] Its simple as part of the tutorial it could tell you how to buy isk the legal way. --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Vivitari Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.29 15:47:00 - [10] I vote, send an email to every new character created, and to every character on reactivated accounts upon reactivation. This way, EVERYONE will get the message that buying isk has consequences. Even if they are reactivating an account after a couple years. EVE: The Vivitari Story - A Blog by Nobody in EVE Online
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.01.29 15:55:00 - [11] Trial accounts shouldn't be able to send evemail or type URLs into the corp chat window. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Feirik	Posted - 2008.01.29 16:01:00 - [12] Well, the thing about limiting trail accounts to where they would be almost worthless would just scare new players away. Atleast I for one didnt like that I could send isk, that I couldnt train cruiser when I had my trail. Many limits would make it feel like you were enforced to upgrade your account, not try out the game for fun. The isk advertisors dont post the correct link in channel, they post maybe www.xxxxxxxx'.com, so even a nubbin can realise what webpage to go to for buying iskies. Sending mails could work, but there would be needed maybe some CCP strict colour so people could tell difference between farmers saying CCP and CCP sending out 'offical' mails, maybe blue colour that farmers couldnt recreate? Good input, first step is to make as many in eve aware of the problem, so ccp might find it worthwhile to do something.
Feirik	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:08:00 - [13] From a little more sneaky farmergroup living in venal, these dont sell 1 pyerite or 1 tritanium, they got multiple items of a little value in their contracts. Sally is the leader raking in the isk as shown in the screenshots. Sally getting isk Sally getting items back to make contracts to other farmers Big thanks to triumvirate for housing these nice people...
Feirik	Posted - 2008.02.01 14:31:00 - [14] I want to sell ammo too Wang again, different farmer. What these screens got in common aswell is that these are active farmers and isk backmen, doing their laundering in the last few days. Ill continue making screenies and bump this as this as long I bother. Eventually it will be so stupidly long that that will be a point in itself.
Fswd Gallente Black Ops Corporation	Posted - 2008.02.01 14:38:00 - [15] Ban swear, bye isk farmer wallet and months of farming --- Originally by: Richard Phallus HEY! Giving helpful correct information isn't an eve meme! Stop that.
Feirik	Posted - 2008.02.01 14:49:00 - [16] The isk farmers take hight for that, voogru got more information about that. It regards a game mechanic alot of players use, but isk farmers abuse aswell.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.02.01 14:57:00 - [17] Originally by: MotherMoon the other problem is isk farmers. they inject pure 24/7 isk into the game. however it's not really in the game until it is sold to a player. you really think thats the truth? These ISK sellers buy and fit full faction ships. Some of them fit nothing but faction and deadspace mods to run missions faster in empire. So dont, for one minute, say that the ISK isnt injected into the economy until its sold to a player. Its injected the minute they click "accept" on their CNR contract, and doesnt end. They lose a ship to a suicide gang? You bet they'll replace it witht he ISK thats been farmed and theyll come back with the same faction/officer/deadspace fitting. The problem with "stopping" ISK farmers is, we ALL farm isk in one way or another...and tbh theres some of them that sell it on ebay. Most all of these "macros" choose not to sell on EBAY, but rather on designated website that they have less of a chance of getting caught selling the ISK. Until you find ALL of these sites, and figure out how to shut down a web site without a problem, have fun trying to fix this ISK seller problem. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Feirik	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:47:00 - [18] Example of a iskbuying and isk sellers getting away with it. We got 3 longtime CNR sellers, all have sold billions in cnrs over the months. NovemberRainn Juto Diligentdragon And here comes the isk buyer, toooooootoooooo: WTS Claws He got 3 pretending to be contracts going for 3,6-3,7m a piece, and after that 3 for 1b a piece. So out of curiosty, what did he buy? 2 Cap bpos, and probaly some market items outside contracts. EF hutton might be banned, but our CNRs sellers are very much active still. What is this CCP? This is clearly iskbuying and the sellers are doing great.
Feirik	Posted - 2008.02.03 13:59:00 - [19] Thats alot of haulertrips. This is nowhere everything, the smarter farmers use private contracts which only ccp can monitor. But as shown in this thread... well I doubt the sellers are having hard times.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.03 14:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Feirik Thats alot of haulertrips. This is nowhere everything, the smarter farmers use private contracts which only ccp can monitor. But as shown in this thread... well I doubt the sellers are having hard times. Damb, that tiootu guy gets good prices for his stuff... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.03 14:26:00 - [21] Originally by: Feirik Well, the thing about limiting trail accounts to where they would be almost worthless would just scare new players away. Atleast I for one didnt like that I could send isk, that I couldnt train cruiser when I had my trail. Many limits would make it feel like you were enforced to upgrade your account, not try out the game for fun. The isk advertisors dont post the correct link in channel, they post maybe www.xxxxxxxx'.com, so even a nubbin can realise what webpage to go to for buying iskies. Sending mails could work, but there would be needed maybe some CCP strict colour so people could tell difference between farmers saying CCP and CCP sending out 'offical' mails, maybe blue colour that farmers couldnt recreate? Good input, first step is to make as many in eve aware of the problem, so ccp might find it worthwhile to do something. Limiting them to worthlessness? Who's talking about doing that? Moderate restrictions on the number of evemails sent hardly makes a trial account "worthless", does it? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.03 15:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Blazing Fire There are so many suggestion to stop this spam. I wonder what CCP waits for?!? I have a question - do you just copy/paste the links and such to every post you make? Ive noticed that 99.9% of people on these forums have a signature. If you are one of the 0.1% that doesnot have a sig, copy this into your sig, and display your defiance towards people with sigs.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.02.03 15:47:00 - [23] I actually prefer a third option like a CCP Center. I go buy ISKs directly from CCP. I know I can do it with GTC but going round the block is not really my thing. Maybe I trust CCP more than GTC retailers. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Scott Ryder Infestation. The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2008.02.03 22:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I actually prefer a third option like a CCP Center. I go buy ISKs directly from CCP. I know I can do it with GTC but going round the block is not really my thing. Maybe I trust CCP more than GTC retailers. You are so flamebaiting :o attention*****
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2008.02.03 22:18:00 - [25] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I actually prefer a third option like a CCP Center. I go buy ISKs directly from CCP. I know I can do it with GTC but going round the block is not really my thing. Maybe I trust CCP more than GTC retailers. *** "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told, I'm a child of the moon and a Goddess among men." Free pint of blood for the Dev who agrees
Feirik	Posted - 2008.02.04 14:20:00 - [26] Edited by: Feirik on 04/02/2008 14:20:20 Dong I thought you were on our side.....! Old farmer issuing funny contracts aswell, and wang pops up again.
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.02.04 14:36:00 - [27] I've said it before, and I'm saying it again. A way to hamper (it won't solve the problem) ISK sellers would be to set a maximum amount of transferrable ISK per week that is tied to the sending character's SP. Something like SP * 10 per week maximum. This way, ISK sellers would have to use other methods to send ISK to the buyers since it is an expensive way to train a character up to the required SP levels to make it worthwhile. Or they would have to buy characters constantly. However, if a high SP cahracter is caught and banned, it would be a long way to get back to that status for the seller. For GTCs CCP could introduce an ingame commodity that can be sold through the auction system without restrictions (if that's not available yet, no idea). Obvious work-arounds would be using contracts/auctions, but it should be easily monitored when a character repeatedly buys something worth 10 ISK for 1 billion. An obvious drawback would be that ransoming might get complicated in certain cases.
Feirik	Posted - 2008.02.04 14:49:00 - [28] Dude, check the screenshots, its exactly what the farmer does: Very stupid : just wiring isk between farmers Quite stupid : Use obvious public contracts, 1 trit for 200m etc. A little more sneaky: use multiple items, often items worth more, but still spend much more isk than the item(s) are worth Smart: Use private contracts so only ccp can check it. Setting a limit to how much a character could/sell buy on contracts might limit it, but alot of older players use new noobalts to do their expensive shopping aswell.
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.02.04 14:53:00 - [29] Oh snap. Did I just suggest an alt nerf? Now I'm in trouble. :)
Feirik	Posted - 2008.02.04 17:42:00 - [30] Edited by: Feirik on 04/02/2008 17:44:35 Its not a bad idea, its not that. Its more that CCP would have done it already if they wanted. I hope that we players got a small voice in this, and if enough players put some thought into this, it might enforce/tempt ccp to make changes to hit harder on the farmers. As in my OP my personal opinion is that CCP should swallow their pride and give out a clear statement about what the rules regarding isk selling and buying are, aswell as guidelines to what kind of punishment you'd expect if you broke such rules. Blurry rules make for negative discussions and whining, the petition system being a very good example of that, and blurry rules only benefit the part doing the wrongdoing in my opinion, which is in this case the farmers. So Im gonna be so ballsy and say that: CCP not setting clear rules = CCP support isk sellers and farmers. Maybe the news, the devblogs have just been pretty pictures to show that something is maybe done to the isksellers/Farmers, but the truth being that ccp really endorse farmers because they make more úúú from it, who knows? Because there isnt any information, no feedback, no response... noone knows for sure. If this is the case, please have some GM send me a mail ingame so I can stop wasting time on this. Untill then, I appreciate all feedback/support against this problem.

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.