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Skorpynekomimi
E.A.D Alliance
Omega Vector
113
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Posted - 2012.02.12 19:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/01/1001662/-Icelands-On-going-Revolution
I think CCP may well end up in charge of iceland. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
87
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Posted - 2012.02.12 20:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
It is sovereign state. They can devalue their currency down to toilet paper and pay the debt, eventually.
PIIGS don't have that option. They gave away their sovereignty. They can create this option for themselves. Bring back their own currency, it will be worthless, print as much of it as they need, pay the debt eventually. I am not sure if they will be required to leave EU to do this. There are some countries that are members of EU who still use their own currency instead of Euro.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy
Eat desert first! |
baltec1
589
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Posted - 2012.02.12 22:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:It is sovereign state. They can devalue their currency down to toilet paper and pay the debt, eventually.
PIIGS don't have that option. They gave away their sovereignty. They can create this option for themselves. Bring back their own currency, it will be worthless, print as much of it as they need, pay the debt eventually. I am not sure if they will be required to leave EU to do this. There are some countries that are members of EU who still use their own currency instead of Euro.
We told you so never gets old when you are right |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
346
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Posted - 2012.02.12 23:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Doesnt matter if its sovereign or not, That is why tanks and jets exist. Sadly sometimes one is just not allowed to give up and go home so easily.
Also why the EU isnt so bad, even if they weren't in EU, they could still do things that would **** off other countries and be in a shitstorm.
Signature removed, CCP Phantom |
Capitol One
Wolfsbrigade
7
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Posted - 2012.02.13 11:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Iceland is not in the EU. |
2bhammered
Perkone
Caldari State
65
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Posted - 2012.02.13 11:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iceland will survive, no doubt, if needed they can always sell that glacier of theirs to the arab states or Israel for fresh water ;) |
W1rlW1nd
The Scope
Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2012.02.14 11:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
This article has some pretty glaring errors in it.
Biggest is that Iceland is not and never has been a member of the EU. It was only a trading parner inside the European Economic Area, not a member of the EU.
I read up a lot about iceland after the bankruptcy, since I was facinated about how a) a country could get to that point, and b) how a country could survive such a thing and most importantly c) my fav video game is made there wtf happened?
The whole story is really facinating imo, and I don't think many (if any) other countries could pull off what Iceland did.
I have a sense that Iceland is one of the few countries that can survive going bankrupt and seperating itself completely [for a while] from the rest of the trade world. It has potentially limitless energy from geothermal, limitless food from fisheries, limitless fresh water, and is too cold or far away for anyone to want to invade it -- hence no standing army required.
A bunch of hot spring blubber sandwich eating code monkeys, don't need the rest of the world to support itself.
Most other countries would suffer a disasterous collapse if they could not trade with other nations, even the USA would not be able to survive too long on its oil reserve supply, and oil is what gets food delivered across this country here, trucks and trains, let alone powering stuff. People here would start dying if America declared bankruptcy.
The article wanted to compare Iceland to Greece, I am not sure if Greece is in such an enviable position to survive without any trade from outside its borders. Is Greece energy and food self-sufficient as a nation?
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
383
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Posted - 2012.02.14 11:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
W1rlW1nd wrote:Is Greece energy and food self-sufficient as a nation?
as far as I know, economy in greece is mostly centered around tourism. Food production, don't think they can do much besides fishing in the mediterranean.
I could be wrong tho, so somebody feel free to correct me.
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
jason hill
The Riot Formation
Get Off My Lawn
54
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Posted - 2012.02.16 18:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
I watched the bbc newsnight programme last night and the various eu comissioners being inteviewed pretty much asking that greece should leave the eu .... but in the usual diplomatic speak that they use |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
315
|
Posted - 2012.02.16 19:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Long as Iceland stays out of the EU they should be ok. Small countries have the advantage that the politicians are close to the goverened. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
mUfFiN fAcToRy
966
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Posted - 2012.02.16 20:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
W1rlW1nd wrote:
Most other countries would suffer a disasterous collapse if they could not trade with other nations, even the USA would not be able to survive too long on its oil reserve supply, and oil is what gets food delivered across this country here, trucks and trains, let alone powering stuff.
yeah... there's enough oil in Alaska to end the US dependency on foreign oil. It's just those damn hippies holding us back. The caribou will just have to move.
I think they last time they checked there's like 503 million barrels worth? |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
93
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Posted - 2012.02.16 21:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:W1rlW1nd wrote:
Most other countries would suffer a disasterous collapse if they could not trade with other nations, even the USA would not be able to survive too long on its oil reserve supply, and oil is what gets food delivered across this country here, trucks and trains, let alone powering stuff.
yeah... there's enough oil in Alaska to end the US dependency on foreign oil. It's just those damn hippies holding us back. The caribou will just have to move. I think they last time they checked there's like 503 million barrels worth?
And we're barely tapping Texas. And we're currently setting up in North Dakota. Plus there is the whole thing with the Arctic shelf at the moment.
so if we have all this oil why are we importing it? Why use up your resources when you can use up the other guy. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
315
|
Posted - 2012.02.17 02:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:W1rlW1nd wrote:
Most other countries would suffer a disasterous collapse if they could not trade with other nations, even the USA would not be able to survive too long on its oil reserve supply, and oil is what gets food delivered across this country here, trucks and trains, let alone powering stuff.
yeah... there's enough oil in Alaska to end the US dependency on foreign oil. It's just those damn hippies holding us back. The caribou will just have to move. I think they last time they checked there's like 503 million barrels worth?
Not sure the "motherload" is Alaska, the Canadian Tar sands seems to be what most people are looking at now. But it is an expensive process, net energy from tar sands is far less than drills. It's a horrible ratio like 1:3 or something along those lines. Anyway you look at it, it is an increase towards the cost of productivity, that'll impact everyone.
Not only do we need as much oil as all of humanity has consumed thus far over the next 15 years or so, we'll need to find three times as much as the projection, if the net energy ratio is 1:3 and not not 1:10, which is roughly the ratio of sweet crude. |
W1rlW1nd
The Scope
Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2012.02.17 02:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:W1rlW1nd wrote:
Most other countries would suffer a disasterous collapse if they could not trade with other nations, even the USA would not be able to survive too long on its oil reserve supply, and oil is what gets food delivered across this country here, trucks and trains, let alone powering stuff.
yeah... there's enough oil in Alaska to end the US dependency on foreign oil. It's just those damn hippies holding us back. The caribou will just have to move. I think they last time they checked there's like 503 million barrels worth? Not sure the "motherload" is Alaska, the Canadian Tar sands seems to be what most people are looking at now. But it is an expensive process, net energy from tar sands is far less than drills. It's a horrible ratio like 1:3 or something along those lines. Anyway you look at it, it is an increase towards the cost of productivity, that'll impact everyone. Not only do we need as much oil as all of humanity has consumed thus far over the next 15 years or so, we'll need to find three times as much as the projection, if the net energy ratio is 1:3 and not not 1:10, which is roughly the ratio of sweet crude.
What often is conveniently not reported, is that ithe 'hard to get at' oil locked up in America's tar sands etc. requires a much more complicated process to extract, and all the machines required to get at that oil also RUN ON OIL, for the pumps, diggers, processing machinery--
there is a point when all our 'vast' locked up oil reserves are redundant, doesn't matter how much there is numerically, since eventually it will require 1 barrel of oil to extract 1 barrel of oil-- America needs to more aggressively tap into all the other sources of energy we have but are not exploiting-- for example there is so damn much wind where I live that it ticks me off we aren't using it for something.
Oh and all the arguments about how 'future technology' will figure out how to extract the hard to get at oil more efficiently is a joke-- that dream future technology would have to run on electricity, which would require implementing a wide scale alternate energy program so that all that heavy machinery runs on electric gathered from solar/wind/hydro/geothermal/nuclear combined with coal-electric, and at that point we wouldn't need any oil for fuel anymore lol.
We still 'need' oil for plastics, we should stop burning it in our cars, trucks, trains, ships as soon as possible it's just a bloody waste of good material resource, and reduce the amount of money we send to countries that deep down want to kill us.
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stoicfaux
755
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Posted - 2012.02.17 02:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
yeah... there's enough oil in Alaska to end the US dependency on foreign oil. It's just those damn hippies holding us back. The caribou will just have to move.
I think they last time they checked there's like 503 million barrels worth?
You would nationalize America's oil reserves? Who are you, Hugo Chavez? Talk about the pot calling the kettle hippie.
Who in their right mind would dump America's oil reserves on the world market to drive down oil prices? You would make more money by holding onto it and selling gradually. Even then, there's the whole problem of refinery capacity. Dumping American crude on to the world market wouldn't make a big difference since refining capacity is pretty much maxed out. Finally, if you did decide to dump your US oil, everyone else would lower their prices to the point that you might not make enough of a profit to cover the expenses of ramping up the drilling of US oil in the first place.
tl;dr - it's not about solving the "US foreign oil dependency" problem. It's about solving the "how can private companies maximize profits from US oil reserves" problem.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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