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Thargat
Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.29 20:35:00 -
[1]
Background
NBSI and NRDS are the two most common ROE employed by sovholder alliances in eve. Not Blue Shoot It is often used because marshalling standings to badguys and protecting your assets and locals is hard with unidentified ships running around. Not Red Dont Shoot the another option available but it's very difficult to punish the right "bad apples" and not shoot innocents. It's also a constant "pain" to adjust standings to small corps (and even individual pilots) who are abusing an sovholders NRDS policy.
NRDS promotes alot of good things. Like trade, freedom of movement and generally makes 0.0 more accessible to the broad public (combined with ratting/farming contracts/deals and dockingrights it also generates income for the sovholders). So why isn't it used more?
Two major factors encourage NBSI over NRDS as the "easy way out".
1) Standings are hard to keep updated properly. Especially in large areas with alot of different neutral corps operating on a daily basis. Pirates and other "unknown" entities needs to be detected visually and hunted down manually, and they can easily hide among "true" neutrals in a system.
2) NRDS means less targets to shoot at and increases the chance of hostile spies running around uncontested.
The Goal
To make the game more dynamic and increasing the level of interaction between players. By: Populating 0.0 by making it more accessible. Giving industrialists (even very small corps) a better chance to experience 0.0. Giving pirates and pvpers new fun challanges. Making sovholding alliances feel more like true powerful factions rather than greedy backscratcher corps.
Ambitious? Maybe... but keep reading.

There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |

Thargat
Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.29 20:35:00 -
[2]
My suggestion
Introduce new tools to encourage alliances and corps to choose a NRDS like stance.
The Tools
Automatic standings:
An alliance style Sec-status with parameters set by the sovholders. Pilots and gangs who do bad stuff in the SOV areas are flagged as "red" to the sovholders (like in empire).
The thresholds are determined by the sovholders. It could be anything from agressing neutrals or entering forbidden/off limit systems, stealing cargo or putting up too large market orders on specific items, opening cynofields, or being reported by sovholding personel with the the right role (like security officers). Depending on the transgression it would result in different kinds of flags, like temporary or permanent "sec-status/standings" loss (in the end resulting in different responses from the pilots in the sovholding alliance).
Fees and taxes:
Different kinds of fees and taxes. Like gatefees, jumpbridge fees and dockingfees. Ignoring a fee at a gate and jumping in anyway would probably result in a "criminal flagging" towards the sovholding corp. Tax on station-trading depandant on the standing of the pilot/corp/alliance.
Markets:
Separate markets for the sovholders and everyone else. An internal market for the sovholders (you don't want an outsider to be able to buy all the hard mined minerals and sell them for tripple).
Licenses:
Sellable licenses that are bound to the pilot/corp/alliance receiving them. A license could allow access to a certain system or systems, dockingrights at certain stations, rights to trade certain goods or items. Permission to shoot neuts (or reds, or blues, whatever the sovholders allow) within the sovholding alliance territory. POS setup, you name it. Licenses would be time-limited and/or revokable at any time by the issuing alliance.
Billboards and information:
Anchorable billboards and/or automatic messages transmitted to pilots in or entering sovheld systems (for example explaining the rules and directing visitors).
My Thoughts
Tools like the ones above would allow sovholding alliances to have both neutrals and pirates roaming around in their systems. Industrial players would have the chance to enjoy 0.0 while being protected by a sovholding alliance (without the regular hassle of rent and obligations to pewpew for their "masters"). Pirates and evildoers would be rewarded with target rich environments and instead of being hunted by concord or lose empire sec-status they could get fun fights by real breathing players.
Sovholding alliances would be competing against eachother to provide the best service and securest space for the "neuts" and war between alliances would get alot more interesting (since it encourages smaller fleets on disruption missions) and the stakes are even higher than before.
This of course is all optional. These are only Tools to encourage a more breathing living 0.0. The regular NBSI stance would still be available. Even a mixed NBSI, NRDS stance could be chosen for different systems and areas.
It would not affect sec-status or dealings in empire or other areas of 0.0 and alliance and corp standings would overrule the parameters set by the sovholders (-10 would always be -10).
More Tools/Suggestions/Feedback?
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |

Thargat
Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.31 01:35:00 -
[3]
Edited and added some ideas. The first version didn't seem appealing enough I guess.
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |

Malen Nenokal
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2008.01.31 03:37:00 -
[4]
/signed
I love the idea of having automatic standing adjustments especially. The licenses would be nice as well.
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CaiusMarius
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Posted - 2008.01.31 04:52:00 -
[5]
Entertaining concept. Getting pilots into 0.0 is always a good cause.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2008.01.31 06:38:00 -
[6]
Those are some very powerful tools. Not sure I like just how much ability it gives to notice 'bad' activity immediately, but I very much like the general premise of it. Perhaps monitoring stations can detect/enforce the conditions within X AU (but can be somehow countered)? -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth |

Serathii
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Posted - 2008.01.31 09:36:00 -
[7]
really good idea, but some people are just trigger happy and prefer NBSI, cause a neutral is still a target
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Thargat
Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.31 09:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Serathii really good idea, but some people are just trigger happy and prefer NBSI, cause a neutral is still a target
I know... I'm one of them 
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |

Ethan Krindorf
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Posted - 2008.02.28 17:29:00 -
[9]
Really enjoyed reading those concepts! For me, the concept of licenses is most certainly 'made of win'. I'm in small corp and during my eve history, I've not actually be involved in any 0.0 politics, 0.1 entertainment is the most I've had.
However, I've always liked the idea of applying for, and receiving a license/permit/permission to travel in a certain region. I love the concept of proving yourself to a corp holding onto a particular system, having your background checked etc, and then being told that you are indeed allowed to do business in a particular area without fear of being taken out.
I like the idea of this being something that rogue corp players cannot abuse. For example, right now I could approach Corp X and discuss allowing myself and members of the corp I'm a director of to move freely through their territory for trade and exploration, even mining. They could give me a good standing, but rogue pilots in that corp or corp alliance could still take me down.
With a permit, these rogue elements who do not care for the rules wouldn't be able to engage me. I'm a diplomat in games, always have been; and your suggestion(s) certainly need attention from CCP developers, IMHO.
Good post all round, was certainly thought provoking.
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Cyphr Sonic
Caldari The Ninja Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.28 17:45:00 -
[10]
good idea /signed hope to see this in a new patch soon
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Kontor Mebret
Amarr Burning Sword
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Posted - 2008.03.04 06:19:00 -
[11]
They are all nothing short of awesome ideas. I would love to see CCP implement all of them.
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Thargat
Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.04 21:40:00 -
[12]
whoa... blast from the past. One month and ticking =D Nice to see that people browse that far back... keep the feedback comming 
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |

Cailais
Amarr VITOC Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.03.05 00:01:00 -
[13]
I like these ideas. Good stuff.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |

Ackaroth
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.05 01:17:00 -
[14]
/signed
Looks like some great ideas here thargat! I suggest shooting Hardin a mail in game linking him to this, he might be able to pull in alot of interest from Providence :)
Sounds like alot of cool ways to better use the wide open space that alot of alliances have and dont use. ___________________
Add total value of open buy and sell orders to "Orders" tab of wallet.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=626498 |

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.03.05 16:48:00 -
[15]
Love the idea. Anything that reduces micro-management is always a plus, and if it opens up 0.0 to more activity, so much the better. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |

Khyenn LaNayeur
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Posted - 2008.03.05 19:56:00 -
[16]
i like the ideas, but i agree that completely automatic notification of "bad" behaviour is a little extreme.
maybe it should depend on soveirgnty level: at high sov you can put sensors in place that detect offences, but at low sov you have to rely on manual flags from security officers
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Thargat
Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.05 20:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Khyenn LaNayeur i like the ideas, but i agree that completely automatic notification of "bad" behaviour is a little extreme.
maybe it should depend on soveirgnty level: at high sov you can put sensors in place that detect offences, but at low sov you have to rely on manual flags from security officers
Good suggestion. I must say that I personally think "autoflagging" better than "nbsi". And remember that it would only "flag" in sovheld systems. Maybe the security level could be dynamic based on nr of POS structures or level of activity in the system by sov-forces.
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |

Thargat
North Star Networks Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.28 22:45:00 -
[18]
Bump fpr Hardin
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |

Karanth
Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.03.28 23:48:00 -
[19]
These look good.
"Current Earth-Destruction Status" |

DrDooma
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.03.28 23:57:00 -
[20]
/signed. Needs a little bit more work but very good idea.
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.03.29 01:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ethan Krindorf Really enjoyed reading those concepts! For me, the concept of licenses is most certainly 'made of win'. I'm in small corp and during my eve history, I've not actually be involved in any 0.0 politics, 0.1 entertainment is the most I've had.
However, I've always liked the idea of applying for, and receiving a license/permit/permission to travel in a certain region. I love the concept of proving yourself to a corp holding onto a particular system, having your background checked etc, and then being told that you are indeed allowed to do business in a particular area without fear of being taken out.
I like the idea of this being something that rogue corp players cannot abuse. For example, right now I could approach Corp X and discuss allowing myself and members of the corp I'm a director of to move freely through their territory for trade and exploration, even mining. They could give me a good standing, but rogue pilots in that corp or corp alliance could still take me down.
With a permit, these rogue elements who do not care for the rules wouldn't be able to engage me. I'm a diplomat in games, always have been; and your suggestion(s) certainly need attention from CCP developers, IMHO.
Good post all round, was certainly thought provoking.
Why would they not be able to engage you? This is all standings related stuff. All those licenses are bought to allow into a system and things of that nature. If one of the sov holders wanted to take you down, whats gonna stop them?
Same methods as today. --
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DrDooma
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.03.29 11:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Why would they not be able to engage you? This is all standings related stuff. All those licenses are bought to allow into a system and things of that nature. If one of the sov holders wanted to take you down, whats gonna stop them?
Same methods as today.
The idea is, if you hold control over space you have self manage rent system. If tenant wonts to live/pass through that system all they have to do is pay rent fee. Otherwise its NBSI as always. You can still shoot them, but they will not pay rent again. This is just another ISK making model.
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Wren Alterana
Minmatar The Baros Syndicate Kissaki Republic
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Posted - 2008.05.02 04:24:00 -
[23]
signed for great justice |

Cairn Metalhand
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.02 11:39:00 -
[24]
Love this idea, it would really make the alliances more like empires as well, and the pvp'ers in the alliances would have much more pew pew on their hands hunting down all the eveil doers (acting concord). It would also encourage border patrols and alliances could make money by just holding space. I would love for this to be implemented, and i really hope CCP reads this thread. Also *BUMP* for more attention. |

Tarron Sarek
Gallente Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2008.05.02 13:28:00 -
[25]
This is great stuff. |

J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:27:00 -
[26]
I like most of the ideas, apart from the market one. Having a cohesive market is important to the game - availability of market goods is a good advertisement for the alliance in the first place.
Introducing a corp hanger controlled by one person that things can be paid for directly is one option. Another is combining the idea of standings to market orders, as has been mentioned here before. That way, especially with dynamic standing changes, they can't even run through your systems in a cov-ops to pick something up cheap or anything. Their standings would change so much that when they -got- there, they couldn't buy it. (Yes they could buy it remotely and then fly in, but isn't that just another good reason to expand into an entire region? )
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Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:35:00 -
[27]
I support this idea :) |

Kiran Jiyuu
Caldari Sanctuary Aegis Consortium
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Posted - 2008.05.02 14:43:00 -
[28]
/signed
Some very nice ideas. I like them! :D Implement tools that make these things easier for reigning alliances. Anything to make administration tasks for region holders easier. |

Mike Rowlings
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.02 16:13:00 -
[29]
This idea makes me think of the sort of rules that apply in empire space.
Sovereign space does yet need to feel like empire does, only on a smaller scale. Licenses, automatic standings adjustment, fees, taxes and all the other nice ideas put forward by the OP would be a welcome addition to EVE and would encourage more people to come into null-sec.
Absolutely signed.
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Sabrina Al'Kian
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Posted - 2008.05.02 16:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban I like most of the ideas, apart from the market one. Having a cohesive market is important to the game - availability of market goods is a good advertisement for the alliance in the first place.
Introducing a corp hanger controlled by one person that things can be paid for directly is one option. Another is combining the idea of standings to market orders, as has been mentioned here before. That way, especially with dynamic standing changes, they can't even run through your systems in a cov-ops to pick something up cheap or anything. Their standings would change so much that when they -got- there, they couldn't buy it. (Yes they could buy it remotely and then fly in, but isn't that just another good reason to expand into an entire region? )
Another option would be to increase market tax with standing. An alliance member wouldn't have to pay tax at all, but someone with a -10 sec status would take to pay something like 200% tax or something (making it not worth it for him to buy). But let's be honest--if you're in a war and a target wants to pay 300 mil for a megathron, why stop him? Wars are fought with money, and ripping oneself off incredibly just to save some jumps would be a sacrifice one would have to make (for example). It would also encourage traders to buy licenses before trading. |
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