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Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.31 14:56:00 - [61] Ok, those look quite reasonable, not neccesary but I could be ok with those. You haven't answered my question though, what in your eyes would be an addons that would take things too far. Also, how would you guard the game against the option of using THOSE addons while allowing the ones you just shown me? Reckless Corsairs is looking for a few aspiring team PVPers
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2008.01.31 14:57:00 - [62] Originally by: Stormaar 1. 2. 3. i like those. they'd all fix stuff that eve does in a horrible way. [IMAGE REMOVED]
Stormaar Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:09:00 - [63] Originally by: Tzar'rim Ok, those look quite reasonable, not neccesary but I could be ok with those. You haven't answered my question though, what in your eyes would be an addons that would take things too far. Also, how would you guard the game against the option of using THOSE addons while allowing the ones you just shown me? - limited set of API functions or - full set with deprecation of some methods both methods not too hard for realization. If this not enogh - CCP signed addons distributed trough some in game service. U write some, send it trough special form on site to dev team or to something else and wait for approval. When it approved - all can use it. Its for paranoya mode. ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:12:00 - [64] /sign Please let people fix the interface. PS. God just rang and if you posted "This is not WoW" as a rationale for not doing this he wants your brain back. EVE RELATED CONTENT
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:13:00 - [65] So, you want a constant API data stream to all clients using the addons AND you want CCP to devote time to certify addons sent in by players. Uhm not to bash or anything but have you noticed the current EVE problems; lag and DEV/GM time? Reckless Corsairs is looking for a few aspiring team PVPers
Mattikus	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:16:00 - [66] Originally by: Stormaar Edited by: Stormaar on 30/01/2008 15:13:34 Originally by: ApaKaka Let me give you a real example of why this is not allowed. Lets say you customize your UI to blink/make sounds and go freaky as soon as someone enter local. Voila, you have an advantage over everyone else in reacting to the threat of being popped by pirates before you notice they are there. EVE needs to be carefully balanced and give everyone the same experience, simlpy because it is geared towards so much PVP and the hunter/hunted philosophy. Giving one or the other a significant advantage would break this careful balance. So, u cant read at all. Im repeat for u personaly - API regulated by CCP. And thing with authorized developers teams from community members... if CCP wonna control process. He probably cant read cause of your terribly terrible English....I dont know if its not your first language or not...but earlier up the thread you made a post that made sense and seemed like you knew English very well...and now your back to talking like your drunk as a skunk. Kinda annoying actually....Sorry if I've "offended" any of you.
Stormaar Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:17:00 - [67] Originally by: Tzar'rim So, you want a constant API data stream to all clients using the addons AND you want CCP to devote time to certify addons sent in by players. Uhm not to bash or anything but have you noticed the current EVE problems; lag and DEV/GM time? 1 Stream when client loaded. Check signatures ad have a fun. About second part - more usable interface = more people stay to play after trial = mor money = mo people CCP can hire to solve som other issue... Simplified version. ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:20:00 - [68] Originally by: Mattikus Originally by: Stormaar Edited by: Stormaar on 30/01/2008 15:13:34 Originally by: ApaKaka Let me give you a real example of why this is not allowed. Lets say you customize your UI to blink/make sounds and go freaky as soon as someone enter local. Voila, you have an advantage over everyone else in reacting to the threat of being popped by pirates before you notice they are there. EVE needs to be carefully balanced and give everyone the same experience, simlpy because it is geared towards so much PVP and the hunter/hunted philosophy. Giving one or the other a significant advantage would break this careful balance. So, u cant read at all. Im repeat for u personaly - API regulated by CCP. And thing with authorized developers teams from community members... if CCP wonna control process. He probably cant read cause of your terribly terrible English....I dont know if its not your first language or not...but earlier up the thread you made a post that made sense and seemed like you knew English very well...and now your back to talking like your drunk as a skunk. Kinda annoying actually....Sorry if I've "offended" any of you. lol? take it to CAOD, troll boy. [IMAGE REMOVED]
Stormaar Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:20:00 - [69] Originally by: Mattikus Originally by: Stormaar Edited by: Stormaar on 30/01/2008 15:13:34 Originally by: ApaKaka Let me give you a real example of why this is not allowed. Lets say you customize your UI to blink/make sounds and go freaky as soon as someone enter local. Voila, you have an advantage over everyone else in reacting to the threat of being popped by pirates before you notice they are there. EVE needs to be carefully balanced and give everyone the same experience, simlpy because it is geared towards so much PVP and the hunter/hunted philosophy. Giving one or the other a significant advantage would break this careful balance. So, u cant read at all. Im repeat for u personaly - API regulated by CCP. And thing with authorized developers teams from community members... if CCP wonna control process. He probably cant read cause of your terribly terrible English....I dont know if its not your first language or not...but earlier up the thread you made a post that made sense and seemed like you knew English very well...and now your back to talking like your drunk as a skunk. Kinda annoying actually....Sorry if I've "offended" any of you. May be. Im need more practice in english, that real. ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons
Mattikus	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:23:00 - [70] Originally by: Turin Originally by: Steve Hawkings This is EVE not WOW, I would like to keep it that way, UI is fine. What a lame argument. "OMG, thats a feature used in WOW, therefore, we CANNOT HAVE IT IN THIS GAME! WE MUST BE DISASSOCIATED WITH ANYTHING THEY DO IN WOW IN ALL SHAPES AND FORMS!! OMG OMG OMG@!#$@!#@$%@#$%@#$@!#%^ETYWRSTGHFJYTYW$ER@#^$" Super lame argument. Customizable UI's have been part of MMO's LONG before WOW. Anarchy Online had this going a good 2 years before WOW came out. Allowing people to create thier own gaming experience is never a bad thing, and your view is just short sighted and foolish. Whats even more lame is when people do the played out, over-used "omg thats so leet zomg zomg roflcopter pwn!" crap....it makes you look like a ******* 12 year old.
Mattikus	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:24:00 - [71] Edited by: Mattikus on 31/01/2008 15:26:14 Originally by: Stormaar Originally by: Mattikus Originally by: Stormaar Edited by: Stormaar on 30/01/2008 15:13:34 Originally by: ApaKaka Let me give you a real example of why this is not allowed. Lets say you customize your UI to blink/make sounds and go freaky as soon as someone enter local. Voila, you have an advantage over everyone else in reacting to the threat of being popped by pirates before you notice they are there. EVE needs to be carefully balanced and give everyone the same experience, simlpy because it is geared towards so much PVP and the hunter/hunted philosophy. Giving one or the other a significant advantage would break this careful balance. So, u cant read at all. Im repeat for u personaly - API regulated by CCP. And thing with authorized developers teams from community members... if CCP wonna control process. He probably cant read cause of your terribly terrible English....I dont know if its not your first language or not...but earlier up the thread you made a post that made sense and seemed like you knew English very well...and now your back to talking like your drunk as a skunk. Kinda annoying actually....Sorry if I've "offended" any of you. May be. Im need more practice in english, that real. Sweet Ok ok...I wont troll.....No I dont think a customizable UI is needed. Leave it as it is.....
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2008.01.31 15:37:00 - [72] I agree, hotkeys are not needed and are just cheating. We should stop talking about progression in the ui world, and instead go backwards. I really think we need to get rid of hotkeys, cause they are cheating and make it easier for macroers. In fact, I think we should remove all mouse control in EVE. That will make it even harder for macroers. Yes I know this will also make it harder for me and the other 95% of the people in the game who are not macroers, but I don't care because I'm an extremist, and you can't be an extremist without being extreme. Next we should do something about this keyboard thing. If I had my way, we would be using a chisle and a stone slab. It was good for our ancestors. Why the hell did we ever move to papyrus!? That really **ed me off! And we should never do anything that WoW does! That game is progressive, and I hate progress! In fact, I propose we roll back the code to early alpha, and reintroduce all the bugs, because that makes me sound more hardcore and non-wowish, which for some reason means I must be cool! --------------------------- CEO Shrapnel Industries "You like to blow s* up, and we like to make that possible." nethervoid - since '97 [UO\|EQ\|SB\|SWG\|PS\|EVE\|NWN\|VG Beta\|WoW]
Stormaar Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.31 18:12:00 - [73] Next expansion: Pilots of the Stone Age... ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons
SonOTassadar Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.31 18:28:00 - [74] Originally by: Tzar'rim Why does your EVE experience become better when you can use addons? What addons would make you happy while retaining the spirit of EVE, as in putting the responsiblity and effort with the player, not some interface or program/macro. Seriously, if you want addons, can you give an example of an addon that, you feel, would be going too far? What the hell is this "spirit of Eve" crap? If an add-on can make a gameplay mechanic obsolete, then the problem is the game, not the add-on. The easiest example would be local chat. One of the first things people would do is add alerts to when people entered and left local, I'm sure. Or maybe it could go further and detect if they were a red box/war target/etc. Then CCP could finally remove local. Then a new add-on comes out that reminds you to launch probes to make sure no one is going to pounce on you. That which is fine -- all CCP would have to do here is implement this alert in to the default UI so that every one is on the same playing field. Customizable UIs and add-ons can only make a game better. The developers will see what gets used, and change gameplay mechanics for the better or implement the add-ons so everyone has them. It's a win/win scenario. -----
Ikasu Gallente The Durandal Organization	Posted - 2008.01.31 18:37:00 - [75] Quote: Thats all regulated as i wrote. And here another point. Custamisable UI can make life slightly easyer for newcomers. Don't think only about urself. Some people stop to play when the see default interface. That's half a reason to keep it. Anybody who quits due to the UI, which is already color customizable and what not to look pretty, is not mature enough for Eve. If you squabble over colors and positions, then you'll probably tear your hair out when someone blows up your ship after you spend hours working on it, ------------------------------------------------- Attention Devs, for every isk you send me one member of your family will be returned safely.
Stormaar Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.31 18:51:00 - [76] Edited by: Stormaar on 31/01/2008 18:55:59 Originally by: Ikasu Quote: Thats all regulated as i wrote. And here another point. Custamisable UI can make life slightly easyer for newcomers. Don't think only about urself. Some people stop to play when the see default interface. That's half a reason to keep it. Anybody who quits due to the UI, which is already color customizable and what not to look pretty, is not mature enough for Eve. If you squabble over colors and positions, then you'll probably tear your hair out when someone blows up your ship after you spend hours working on it, For what? Color customization is pretty useless from all points of view and have nothing to usability, may be a very-very small part of it. Mature for EVE? Mature? So, if u mercenary from Congo and can sleep on roks and eat snakes and bugs - u dont need good interface. Yeah, u enogh mature for EVE. But im sleep in bed, eat common food, sometime look TV, and have 5 days per week when im need make some work and other things like someone call - real life. So, im not enough mature for EVE and other online entertainments. Pretty sad, but true. U - real man with balls. Sorry for my irony. ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons
Stormaar Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.01 11:39:00 - [77] 3 days and still no answer. CCP - we still waiting. ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons
Oniko Sengir The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 11:50:00 - [78] lol video
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2008.02.01 12:11:00 - [79] Originally by: Ikasu Quote: Thats all regulated as i wrote. And here another point. Custamisable UI can make life slightly easyer for newcomers. Don't think only about urself. Some people stop to play when the see default interface. That's half a reason to keep it. Anybody who quits due to the UI, which is already color customizable and what not to look pretty, is not mature enough for Eve. If you squabble over colors and positions, then you'll probably tear your hair out when someone blows up your ship after you spend hours working on it, Why you think UI customization, you think pretty colors. When I think UI customization, I think the ability to simultaneously have one window open with your current sell orders, and another with the current market data for one or more items. I think about an automated e-mail or on-screen pop-up that tells me when my filled sell orders exceed a certain threshold. I think about a small display that indicates which types of ewar I am currently being affected by, and from whom they originated. I think about something so brainlessly simple as a customizable timer in the fecking corner of my display that tells me how much time I've got on my current skill, my current invention / manufacturing jobs, and my POS fuel without having to open a dozen windows and jump all over creation. I think about something so simple as moving "trash this" away from "repackage", FFS. CCP either doesn't have the manpower to implement the kind of tools I feel should be standard, or doesn't care to. So all I ask is that they open the UI enough that I and other like-minded people can do it. No haxxx, no exploits, no automation, no information you couldn't already access through existing in-game tools. Just streamlining. Efficiency. All the anti-customizability arguments boil down to: "We've always had square wheels! I'm perfectly happy with my square wheels, why can't you just learn to appreciate square wheels? If you don't like square wheels, GB2WoW NUB!!!11" Originally by: Frug Your reputation has been entirely redeemed in my eyes. I now want your babies.
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.02.01 12:13:00 - [80] Originally by: SonOTassadar Originally by: Tzar'rim Why does your EVE experience become better when you can use addons? What addons would make you happy while retaining the spirit of EVE, as in putting the responsiblity and effort with the player, not some interface or program/macro. Seriously, if you want addons, can you give an example of an addon that, you feel, would be going too far? What the hell is this "spirit of Eve" crap? If an add-on can make a gameplay mechanic obsolete, then the problem is the game, not the add-on. The easiest example would be local chat. One of the first things people would do is add alerts to when people entered and left local, I'm sure. Or maybe it could go further and detect if they were a red box/war target/etc. Then CCP could finally remove local. Then a new add-on comes out that reminds you to launch probes to make sure no one is going to pounce on you. That which is fine -- all CCP would have to do here is implement this alert in to the default UI so that every one is on the same playing field. Customizable UIs and add-ons can only make a game better. The developers will see what gets used, and change gameplay mechanics for the better or implement the add-ons so everyone has them. It's a win/win scenario. This "crap", as you call it, is what makes EVE different from most other MMO's; the fact that no-one holds your hand, and that YOU YOURSELF are responsible for your (in)actions. The fact that people have to be active, alert and knowledgable to gain an advantage and come out on top. That's what EVE is; a harsh bloodshed struggle to make it to the top, at the expense of others if need be. Every little thing that helps players be more successful while doing less, every automated system chips away more and more from what EVE is all about. Again, I see no real problems with the 3 examples the OP gave, although neither example is really NEEDED at all. All the info is there, you just have to interprete it. The problem is that once you open the floodgates for addons and custom UI's there's no way of making sure that less desirable changes won't used and abused. Actually you can be quite damn SURE these undesirable addons/changes WILL be used. The thing is that if this happens in another MMO nothing much happens, the economy is not important anyway, and if you die or lose a fight because the other guy(s) used "cheats" who cares, you lost nothing. in EVE the cost of failure is much more of a problem, thus the effect of "cheating" addons or UI changes is catastrophic. Therefore I'd rather keep things black&white by having CCP state that NO alterations are allowed than opening up a whole can of worms, creating a grey area where they DO allow for alterations. Better be safe than sorry. RECOR is looking for a few aspiring team PVPers The chronicles of RECOR
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2008.02.01 13:02:00 - [81] err, you're saying part of the appeal of eve is it's crusty UI? are you sure about that? [IMAGE REMOVED]
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2008.02.01 13:04:00 - [82] besides the hordes of macro miners adeptly demonstrate how easy it is to cheat at eve, and the programmable keyboards represent a big fat grey area that already exists. [IMAGE REMOVED]
evriss Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.02.01 13:17:00 - [83] Originally by: Turin Originally by: Steve Hawkings This is EVE not WOW, I would like to keep it that way, UI is fine. What a lame argument. "OMG, thats a feature used in WOW, therefore, we CANNOT HAVE IT IN THIS GAME! WE MUST BE DISASSOCIATED WITH ANYTHING THEY DO IN WOW IN ALL SHAPES AND FORMS!! OMG OMG OMG@!#$@!#@$%@#$%@#$@!#%^ETYWRSTGHFJYTYW$ER@#^$" Super lame argument. Customizable UI's have been part of MMO's LONG before WOW. Anarchy Online had this going a good 2 years before WOW came out. Allowing people to create thier own gaming experience is never a bad thing, and your view is just short sighted and foolish. exactly, in fact Anarchy online had this before EvE even came out. ;) Customizing thte UI is fine, as long as its not supporting scripted addons.
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.02.01 13:59:00 - [84] Originally by: ry ry err, you're saying part of the appeal of eve is it's crusty UI? are you sure about that? Are you sure you're not (intentionally?) missing my point? RECOR is looking for a few aspiring team PVPers The chronicles of RECOR
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2008.02.01 14:42:00 - [85] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: ry ry err, you're saying part of the appeal of eve is it's crusty UI? are you sure about that? Are you sure you're not (intentionally?) missing my point? nope. you're saying that eve is supposed to be difficult, and having to try to warp to find out if you're scrammed is all just part of the challenge, and that anybody who thinks otherwise should go back to WoW. i'm saying you're wrong. [IMAGE REMOVED]
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.02.01 15:07:00 - [86] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 01/02/2008 15:09:33 Ok, you DID miss the point... I'm saying that I'm so afraid of what kind of addons and UI changes might give the user abilities one shouldn't have in a game where the cost of losing can be enourmous that I'd rather have NO addons at all. Mind you, if CCP would implement the 3 things the OP came up with I wouldn't object to it at all since they're not that odd or powerful. But if CCP wouldn't do it, I'd rather NOT have them than opening the floodgates. Apart from that automated systems make for boring gameplay. THAT is my point. RECOR is looking for a few aspiring team PVPers The chronicles of RECOR
Stormaar Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.01 15:45:00 - [87] Edited by: Stormaar on 01/02/2008 15:53:34 Edited by: Stormaar on 01/02/2008 15:51:30 i cant read this... Addons never give ur any abilities which didnt realized in game. Just COMFORT for u. Is my post enough in right english for understading? Stop discussion like this, pls. Addons - part of UI, wraping for ugly default UI - not more. No cheats, no makromainers support - nothing. Im cant belive that to hard for imagine... And this is "Elite" community. Blah. May be very good what my english is so bad. Relax all. ----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2008.02.01 16:25:00 - [88] Edited by: ry ry on 01/02/2008 16:27:16 Originally by: Tzar'rim Ok, you DID miss the point... clearly the point-missing was mutual here - as has been mentioned several times, we're not talking about any kind of automation/macro engine mate, just being able to present the information eve already gives us in a more useful, intuitive manner. the eve community has shown itself to be rather handy when it comes to creating little tools (eft being my favourite example of total awesomeness) and in exchange for the time it'd take CCP to write an API, the community would blatantly put in the man hours the UI clearly needs - for free! it's a win-win situation. [IMAGE REMOVED]
Jake RIvers	Posted - 2008.02.01 16:59:00 - [89] The eve ui has to be one of the oldest and pokiest ui's out there. This is a great game, but using an old style system is just clunky. Get with the times and give the players the tools to improve the ui.
Lord MuffloN Caldari Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.02.01 17:37:00 - [90] I have to say that according to me, the EVE UI is the most horrible aspect of the game. Originally by: Jago Kain If they ever decide to award a Nobel Prize for Emo, Lord MuffloN is a sure fire winner of the first on

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