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Spleef Malevolent Intervention	Posted - 2008.01.31 06:42:00 - [1] ... for reminding me that this is your game, and any amount of care, effort and thought going into the development of my character is a complete waste of time and money. I dont want this to sound like a whine, as i am genuinely happy that eve (my character) isnt overly important to me anymore :) To know where i'm coming from you must first appreciate that i've never been a 'FOTM' skills trainer. I have had one philosophy for this character since i started, namely 'maximum gallente'. As such I trained the remote sensor dampening skills to the maximum. Including that 1 month long signal supression 5. Well i was still reeling from the damp nerf, knowing how pathetically little that last 5% of hardly anything actually added. A whole months subscription, for practically nothing. Now i see that EM and explosive resists have been dropped in a half assed attempt to improve amarr. Yet kinetic and thermal remain untouched. I'm no math wizard, but this tells me that weapons that use explosive and EM have effectively been boosted. No mention of a gallente stealth nerf in the dev blog. No boost to damp using gallente recons. I think there exists a race that Zulupark doesnt like :) So ok, to pre-empt replies to this thread that say 'adapt', sure, i can start training minmatar. But will i be able to train a level 5 again, with this nerfing maniac on the loose? I think not :) My choices appear to be adapt (train another race) or quit. Actually there's another choice, which im gonna choose, so no point asking for my stuff. I'm not paying for this nerf maniacs wages with real money anymore. I'll pay with GTC until I see some evidence that if i decide to specialise in a skill, it wont be suddenly made utterly useless by a clueless fool. What do you guys think? Are you afraid to train that next level 5 skill knowing it could become worthless in an instant?
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.01.31 06:47:00 - [2] I saw Zulupark at Eris's PvP lecture
Triath Lon Keepers of Balance Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.01.31 06:51:00 - [3] Would you quit life if Zulupark was elected president of the world? On a side note, think we can get Zulupark to run? ________ Ambassador Extraordinary Plenipotentiary
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.31 07:02:00 - [4] Originally by: Spleef What do you guys think? Are you afraid to train that next level 5 skill knowing it could become worthless in an instant? No, I started this character, thought to myself "Lasers are tight, let's spec Amarr." And then followed along that route training a supposedly weak racial line of ships. The highest resist on shield and armor have been dropped 10%, and everybody's crying that they're the victim now. You for instance, completely ignore that kin and therm are still considered the best damage types in the game and complain that your enemies didn't become weaker to you specifically in a buff aimed at another race's weapon system. So no, I don't have any issues with Zulupark or the changes he proposes, but I'm sort of ashamed to be associated with a community as predominately self-interested and cynical as this one. You cry when CCP leaves your ships alone. You cry when they nerf your ships. You even cry when they buff your ships, complaining it's not enough. Play the damn game.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.01.31 07:17:00 - [5] Originally by: Spleef [..] What do you guys think? Are you afraid to train that next level 5 skill knowing it could become worthless in an instant? I never train a skill because its supposed to be FOTM. I train skills because I want to fly that particular ship or use those particular modules etc. So far I never got disappointed. We all knew that by making Amarr better it would mean by seriously upgrading the Amarrs or balancing all ships just a little, making them more on par. The way CCP have done it seems reasonable enough for me, but then I have just had a short glimpse of what is coming. I will however check it out seriously when I get time. Seriously though, some of you should do some more testing before you start dishing out those hard spite words to the devs, particularly since none of us know how it will work out in practice yet. Originally by: CCP Whisper I got your ambulation right here... <walks off to get more wine>
Spleef Malevolent Intervention	Posted - 2008.01.31 07:34:00 - [6] Well perhaps there was a last trace of resentment and bitterness in my last post, which I could edit out, but what the hell Actually i am genuinely quite relieved at whats happened. I was taking my specialisation too far, too seriously, and the realisation that months of training can be trashed in an instant have helped re-aligned my priorities. I have paid cash subscriptions solidly for 3 years for my specialised character, and will now cross train for isk, so its no big deal. Any tips for a first time GTC purchaser welcomed
Triath Lon Keepers of Balance Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.01.31 07:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Spleef Any tips for a first time GTC purchaser welcomed Go to trade channels, OTHER. Wait a bit, since a lot of people are selling, eventually someone gets upset and you get a 100 day GTC for 250kk isk ________ Ambassador Extraordinary Plenipotentiary
Spleef Malevolent Intervention	Posted - 2008.01.31 07:43:00 - [8] Edited by: Spleef on 31/01/2008 07:43:47 The 'thank you' that is the topic of this thread is genuine too. I have simply been reminded its just a game. Specifically their game. If there is a trace of whine here, i apologise, but request that you just take a moment to think of what i actually gained with signal supression 5 and i'm sure you will have some understanding
Spleef Malevolent Intervention	Posted - 2008.01.31 07:49:00 - [9] Originally by: Triath Lon Go to trade channels, OTHER. Wait a bit, since a lot of people are selling, eventually someone gets upset and you get a 100 day GTC for 250kk isk Excellent thanks. A couple of those will more than cover the cross training while hardly denting my wallet I have actually been able to afford to support my char with GTC for quite a while now. I just felt good about paying my own cash for a brilliant game, even though i had huge periods of time away. I no longer feel this way, it was the signal supression 5 that really did it.
Triath Lon Keepers of Balance Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.01.31 07:50:00 - [10] Originally by: Spleef take a moment to think of what i actually gained with signal supression 5 and i'm sure you will have some understanding I have a character that is maxed out on all skills you need for Arazu. Now i use Arazu to scan moons, as it's no good for anything else and train to use Falcon. I mean, Recons are already 5, all i need is Caldari Cruiser to lvl 5 :) ________ Ambassador Extraordinary Plenipotentiary
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:10:00 - [11] TBQH while I agree that nerfing the Gallente Damps, especailly while not making sure that they are at least very useful ON Gallente ships is a very bad move, try flying Caldari sometime. We got ships that were built without Engines, our missiles are the most pathetic crap ever designed and while our Torps used to be fairly powerful now I can buy the top Named (not Faction) Torp Launchers for 10,000 Isk while Heavies go for 5 Mil. To top that off Caldari hardly use Drones (fine by backstory) and build their sparse Rail Boats without any Damage Mods on the ship to aid in the pathetic Damage they Deal for a short peroid of time before the enemy is no longer in their "range". If you think that is bad how about when every other race has a BS with 8 of their chosen weapons the Caldari's Missile BS only gets 6 lousy Missile Turrets unless you somehow get a State Issue. Oh..and...Right...Shield Tanking in Sub-Cap PvP...Well I do not want you to die laughing so... Quite honestly, the Gallente are ungodly Uber, being able to pull off more than any other race save E-War now. Their ships can be faster than Minmatar, Tank Better than Amarr or Caldari, and Deal More Non-Drone Damage than anyone in the same Class of Ships while STILL having HUGE Drone Bays. So while I A) Do sympathize with the problem of loosing the Gallente Racail E-War because I firmly believe Each Race should Excell at that which they do and not be nerfed so that they cannot have an individual feel and purpose. I also B)fail to sympathize with your need to train something other than Gallente because they are Uber in every other respect. For the record, I DID train Minmatar because I got tired of flying 2nd rate garbage and having everyone prove it to me on a regular basis. Kudos to those who are still bravely sticking it out with Caldari besides the Isk Farmers. +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...! O.o
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:21:00 - [12] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:22:51 Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:21:48 This is not Amarr fix Remember that - this fix is transfering the problem - not solving it Ever heard of a crying baby? If the baby is crying because it is hungary, you can give it a dummy to transfer the problem. But to solve it, you need to understand why it was crying. All races have capless pvp as a major weapon system. Caldari have missiles, Gallente has Drones, Minmatar got a 100% cap reduction to projectiles fix a while back. Amarr have nothing and are thus broken. Lets cut out the bull and knock off 100% cap use from lasers. This EM and Explosive resist fix is actually MINMATAR EMP L OMG BOOST. CCP fixed Amarr by making PROJECTILES on Amarr ships EVEN more attractive! Well done CCP for making Amarr weaker vs Minmatar. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Kyoto Luyi Army Of Angels	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:26:00 - [13] I can understand the OPs frustration. Many of us trained the old learning skills to 5 to get the advanced learning skills... now it seems you don't need to do that It's nice for new players, but when you start adding up L5 training times you've gone for and now don't need/see the benefit of... chuckles The problem with 'balancing' things is that you just make the game less fun. Don't 'nerf' everyone else - if Amarr have the problem then BUFF Amarr. Makes more sense to me anyway
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:30:00 - [14] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:22:51 Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:21:48 This is not Amarr fix Remember that - this fix is transfering the problem - not solving it Ever heard of a crying baby? If the baby is crying because it is hungary, you can give it a dummy to transfer the problem. But to solve it, you need to understand why it was crying. All races have capless pvp as a major weapon system. Caldari have missiles, Gallente has Drones, Minmatar got a 100% cap reduction to projectiles fix a while back. Amarr have nothing and are thus broken. Lets cut out the bull and knock off 100% cap use from lasers. This EM and Explosive resist fix is actually MINMATAR EMP L OMG BOOST. CCP fixed Amarr by making PROJECTILES on Amarr ships EVEN more attractive! Well done CCP for making Amarr weaker vs Minmatar. yeah not really dude you don't deal damage to the shield and armor at the same time. basicly it will make it more useful when on shield and when on armor but not both at the same time.
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:33:00 - [15] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:22:51 Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:21:48 This is not Amarr fix Remember that - this fix is transfering the problem - not solving it Ever heard of a crying baby? If the baby is crying because it is hungary, you can give it a dummy to transfer the problem. But to solve it, you need to understand why it was crying. All races have capless pvp as a major weapon system. Caldari have missiles, Gallente has Drones, Minmatar got a 100% cap reduction to projectiles fix a while back. Amarr have nothing and are thus broken. Lets cut out the bull and knock off 100% cap use from lasers. This EM and Explosive resist fix is actually MINMATAR EMP L OMG BOOST. CCP fixed Amarr by making PROJECTILES on Amarr ships EVEN more attractive! Well done CCP for making Amarr weaker vs Minmatar. yeah not really dude you don't deal damage to the shield and armor at the same time. basicly it will make it more useful when on shield and when on armor but not both at the same time. Eh? I can use EMP L and get boost to attacking shield and boost to attacking Armour once shield is done. I havent a clue what you are talking about. All you are saying is "you cannot eat desert at the same time as your meal". Well, Duh Sig locked, lack of Eve content
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:22:51 Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:21:48 This is not Amarr fix Remember that - this fix is transfering the problem - not solving it Ever heard of a crying baby? If the baby is crying because it is hungary, you can give it a dummy to transfer the problem. But to solve it, you need to understand why it was crying. All races have capless pvp as a major weapon system. Caldari have missiles, Gallente has Drones, Minmatar got a 100% cap reduction to projectiles fix a while back. Amarr have nothing and are thus broken. Lets cut out the bull and knock off 100% cap use from lasers. This EM and Explosive resist fix is actually MINMATAR EMP L OMG BOOST. CCP fixed Amarr by making PROJECTILES on Amarr ships EVEN more attractive! Well done CCP for making Amarr weaker vs Minmatar. yeah not really dude you don't deal damage to the shield and armor at the same time. basicly it will make it more useful when on shield and when on armor but not both at the same time. Eh? I can use EMP L and get boost to attacking shield and boost to attacking Armour once shield is done. I havent a clue what you are talking about. All you are saying is "you cannot eat desert at the same time as your meal". Well, Duh yeah if they are tanking both shield and armor.
Triath Lon Keepers of Balance Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:39:00 - [17] Originally by: MotherMoon yeah if they are tanking both shield and armor. the other hp isn't tanked it just the hp before you armor tank, and the timer until you die because you shield tank is down. If they are tanking shield - you burn thru it with EMP and kill em. If they are tanking armor - you burn thru it with EMP and kill em. In any case Minmatar EMP rounds are teh win. ________ Ambassador Extraordinary Plenipotentiary
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:45:00 - [18] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:45:10 Originally by: Triath Lon Originally by: MotherMoon yeah if they are tanking both shield and armor. the other hp isn't tanked it just the hp before you armor tank, and the timer until you die because you shield tank is down. If they are tanking shield - you burn thru it with EMP and kill em. If they are tanking armor - you burn thru it with EMP and kill em. In any case Minmatar EMP rounds are teh win. I could not have said it better myself. This is 100% spot on and insted of fixing lasers, all this does is highlight how broken lasers are and encorage people to use projectiles on Amarr ships. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Jonny JoJo This is not Amarr fix See what you did Zulupark??? You brought back Jonny JoJo. I hate you for that. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Jonny JoJo This is not Amarr fix See what you did Zulupark??? You brought back Jonny JoJo. I hate you for that. I have some *****er Zulupark sigs, sadly no-body but me can ever see them. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.31 08:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Jonny JoJo This is not Amarr fix See what you did Zulupark??? You brought back Jonny JoJo. I hate you for that. This above all.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2008.01.31 09:00:00 - [22] Originally by: Spleef What do you guys think? Are you afraid to train that next level 5 skill knowing it could become worthless in an instant? No I think this 'amarr boost' is stupid and hurts my shield tanking caldari ships for no reason. But your crude overreaction discredits the cause. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.01.31 09:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:45:10 Originally by: Triath Lon Originally by: MotherMoon yeah if they are tanking both shield and armor. the other hp isn't tanked it just the hp before you armor tank, and the timer until you die because you shield tank is down. If they are tanking shield - you burn thru it with EMP and kill em. If they are tanking armor - you burn thru it with EMP and kill em. In any case Minmatar EMP rounds are teh win. I could not have said it better myself. This is 100% spot on and insted of fixing lasers, all this does is highlight how broken lasers are and encorage people to use projectiles on Amarr ships. ok so lets say the target is armor tanked. it's ammar for the hell of it. permi tanked dual rep set up with no resistances for the hell of it, and lets say it can pull back 20 dps 500 shield 500 armor lets just say the damage is whats right on the ammo, so the math can be simple also you deal this damage every second. lots of rounding to follow I'm lazy, just making a point. you COULD fit EMP ammo and deal 20 em damage to the shield, and 16 exp, and 8 kin. ok so with base resists that's 20 em damage though 0% resisted 8 exp 50%resisted 5 kin 40%resisted now you hit armor! ok lets see what happens total of 33 damage. so you rip through his untanked hull in about 16 seconds now you hit the armor! 10 em 50% resist 12 exp 20% resist 6 kin 25% resist for a total of! 28 damage! well the permi tank pulls back 20 dps so... that's 8 damage a second! so you get through that armor tank in... 62 seconds. lets ignore Structure for now it's not important, you kill the ship in 78 seconds. Now lets check the PvP standard barrage l 24 exp 20 kin ok lets hit that shield ! 12 exp 50% resist 12 kin 40% resist that's a total of 24 damage which is weaker than the other ammo after boost! oh noes! but wait he's armor tanked so.. time to hit the armor tank 19 exp 20% resist 15 kin 25% resist thats a total of 24 damage hmm... **** I was wrong lol. well you don't lose 50% range but yeah I guess it's better :P
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.31 09:44:00 - [24] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 31/01/2008 09:46:49 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Trolling It's quite obvious that, given the prevalence of armour tanks, a ammo type dealing 80% EM got a bigger comparative boost then a ammo type doing 50% EM when firing on armour tankers, and Amarr will still be better at shooting shield tanks. Of course, since you say that Vagabonds will be doing more damage now since EMP is slightly better now , you might as well say ships in PvP tank both shield and armour. On top of that, EMP S does 11 damage, Multifreq/AM do 12 damage base. Quite clearly, EMP needs a fix. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.31 10:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:22:51 Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:21:48 This is not Amarr fix sure it's not. if you bother to read the devblog from the beginning to end you'll notice that the resist nerf is a FIX TO EM DAMAGE amarr fix will come on next blog. --- planetary interaction idea!
Lucius Flaccus	Posted - 2008.01.31 10:18:00 - [26] Edited by: Lucius Flaccus on 31/01/2008 10:19:54 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Ever heard of a crying baby? If the baby is crying because it is hungary, you can give it a dummy to transfer the problem. But to solve it, you need to understand why it was crying. People were complaining about a few things: 1) DPS compared to other factions 2) Dependancy on cap 3) Lack of mid slots So, lets have a look: 1) Primary damage type enhanced by way of reduced resistance to it. 2) still under consideration 3) Options are being explored, an Amarr devblog will follow. Sounds like the core issues raised are being looked at. One at a time. EDIT: Zulupark is one of a team of designers. No doubt design changes like this need a fair bit of approval. He is unfortunately becoming the fall-guy because he fronts up reporting on these issues.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.31 10:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:22:51 Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 08:21:48 This is not Amarr fix sure it's not. if you bother to read the devblog from the beginning to end you'll notice that the resist nerf is a FIX TO EM DAMAGE amarr fix will come on next blog. If its an Amarr fix why reduce shield resists? unless Amarr are going to actually get a method of dealing explosive damage other than drones it doesn't make sense. At the moment it boosts Minmatar more than Amarr.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.01.31 11:12:00 - [28] For once, Jojo is actually right.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ama-gi	Posted - 2008.01.31 11:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Spleef Edited by: Spleef on 31/01/2008 07:57:03 ... for reminding me that this is your game, and any amount of care, effort and thought going into the development of my character is a complete waste of time and money. I dont want this to sound like a whine, as i am genuinely happy that eve (my character) isnt overly important to me anymore :) To know where i'm coming from you must first appreciate that i've never been a 'FOTM' skills trainer. I have had one philosophy for this character since i started, namely 'maximum gallente'. As such I trained the remote sensor dampening skills to the maximum. Including that 1 month long signal supression 5. Well i was still reeling from the damp nerf, knowing how pathetically little that last 5% of hardly anything actually added. A whole months subscription, for practically nothing. Now i see that EM and explosive resists have been dropped in a half assed attempt to improve amarr. Yet kinetic and thermal remain untouched. I'm no math wizard, but this tells me that weapons that use explosive and EM have effectively been boosted. No mention of a gallente stealth nerf in the dev blog. No boost to damp using gallente recons. I think there exists a race that Zulupark doesnt like :) So ok, to pre-empt replies to this thread that say 'adapt', sure, i can start training minmatar. But will i be able to train a level 5 again, with this nerfing maniac on the loose? I think not :) My choices appear to be adapt (train another race) or quit. Actually there's another choice, which im gonna choose, so no point asking for my stuff. (edit begin) mods/devs feel free to delete folowing paragraph, i cant bring myself to do it, not after training signal supression 5 (edit end) I'm not paying for this nerf maniacs wages with real money anymore. I'll pay with GTC until I see some evidence that if i decide to specialise in a skill, it wont be suddenly made utterly useless by a clueless fool. What do you guys think? Are you afraid to train that next level 5 skill knowing it could become worthless in an instant? I decided years ago the only way to go is to train for every race and every ship and every gun. I'm nearly there ( untill they add more ships again...) lol. -- No love for the Matari
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2008.01.31 11:15:00 - [30] Quote: knowing how pathetically little that last 5% of hardly anything actually added. A whole months subscription damn since when did they stop you being able to play while u train skills ?? put up or shut up

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This is not Amarr fix

transfering the problem - not solving it

This EM and Explosive resist fix is actually MINMATAR EMP L OMG BOOST. CCP fixed Amarr by making PROJECTILES on Amarr ships EVEN more attractive!

This is not Amarr fix

transfering the problem - not solving it

This EM and Explosive resist fix is actually MINMATAR EMP L OMG BOOST. CCP fixed Amarr by making PROJECTILES on Amarr ships EVEN more attractive!

This is not Amarr fix

transfering the problem - not solving it

This EM and Explosive resist fix is actually MINMATAR EMP L OMG BOOST. CCP fixed Amarr by making PROJECTILES on Amarr ships EVEN more attractive!

This is not Amarr fix

transfering the problem - not solving it

This EM and Explosive resist fix is actually MINMATAR EMP L OMG BOOST. CCP fixed Amarr by making PROJECTILES on Amarr ships EVEN more attractive!

This is not Amarr fix

This is not Amarr fix

This is not Amarr fix

Trolling

This is not Amarr fix

This is not Amarr fix