| Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
   |
Posted - 2008.02.04 11:36:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Jonny JoJo
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Grimpak
the zealot however can go up to 34km and maintain the same damage, a range where the vaga will struggle to do that kind of damage, even with falloff rigs added.
wich means that the point of DPS not being the only number, still stands.
Exept both ships will need to be within scram range unless they like looking at empty space.
The high range of the zealot is largely pointless with pulse laser outfits.
And it is also ignoring the other benefits of the vaga, especially his far higher survivability.
well just use a tackler then.
and no, you're not the only race that is faced with that problem.
people need to see that solo-pvp is not the only thing, and that are better ships in the amarr fleet for solo work.
The "just use a tackler" argument is broken, since the "just use a tackler killer" card comes into play.
Therefore they both are remove from play and you are still left with amarr locking up empty space.
Next, amarr jumps in and engages a ship. He is 15km away from uncloak, and by the time they both lock each other both are within optimal due to a mwd burst or whatever. Now whats a tackler going to do? Sit and loog pretty?
actually help your friend? a tackler can still do some semblance of damage, even if it's just a bit.
---
planetary interaction idea! |
Wizzkidy
Demonic Retribution
Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 11:47:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: Wizzkidy
The only time the Zealot was over powered was before they sorted out that stacking issue with heat sink 2's, this was when the zealot was feared.
Now with omni tanking even WITH the EM resis changes (and I have tested this)
The zealot if slightly better but you still can't fit a full rack of heavy dmg beams without being gimped so I really don't see your point.
Amarr NEEDED something! can you not let us have SOMETHING instead of moaning like a little ****
I'll embrace the changes to the Zealot, if CCP refrains from the armor EM resitance changes and most importantly, the insane changes to the Deimos.
I havn't tried the Deimos as I can't fly them but a low slot for a med slot can't all THAT bad can it? I mean you get to fit ECM? recharger? booster? Tracking computer? , fair enough tank might go down a little but I can't see it gimping the ship 100%
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 11:49:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Wizzkidy
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: Wizzkidy
The only time the Zealot was over powered was before they sorted out that stacking issue with heat sink 2's, this was when the zealot was feared.
Now with omni tanking even WITH the EM resis changes (and I have tested this)
The zealot if slightly better but you still can't fit a full rack of heavy dmg beams without being gimped so I really don't see your point.
Amarr NEEDED something! can you not let us have SOMETHING instead of moaning like a little ****
I'll embrace the changes to the Zealot, if CCP refrains from the armor EM resitance changes and most importantly, the insane changes to the Deimos.
I havn't tried the Deimos as I can't fly them but a low slot for a med slot can't all THAT bad can it? I mean you get to fit ECM? recharger? booster? Tracking computer? , fair enough tank might go down a little but I can't see it gimping the ship 100%
to make full use of that bonus you need either dual MAR or MAR + plate setup, wich, combined with the injector means that you can only fit electrons.
and you still have less cap, wich can be countered by the injector but you'll run out of charges after the first fight, since you can only pack some 8, and that's with 1000 units of ammo.
---
planetary interaction idea! |
Twilight Mourning
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 12:12:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Wizzkidy
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: Wizzkidy
The only time the Zealot was over powered was before they sorted out that stacking issue with heat sink 2's, this was when the zealot was feared.
Now with omni tanking even WITH the EM resis changes (and I have tested this)
The zealot if slightly better but you still can't fit a full rack of heavy dmg beams without being gimped so I really don't see your point.
Amarr NEEDED something! can you not let us have SOMETHING instead of moaning like a little ****
I'll embrace the changes to the Zealot, if CCP refrains from the armor EM resitance changes and most importantly, the insane changes to the Deimos.
I havn't tried the Deimos as I can't fly them but a low slot for a med slot can't all THAT bad can it? I mean you get to fit ECM? recharger? booster? Tracking computer? , fair enough tank might go down a little but I can't see it gimping the ship 100%
to make full use of that bonus you need either dual MAR or MAR + plate setup, wich, combined with the injector means that you can only fit electrons.
and you still have less cap, wich can be countered by the injector but you'll run out of charges after the first fight, since you can only pack some 8, and that's with 1000 units of ammo.
So you either get massive gank with little tank or great tank with above average gank. Sounds like a fair and well thought out trade off by CCP. Sounds like you are whining because your HAC that does BS dmg is getting "fixed" like so many Amarr ships. I'm soooo loving this.
|
Wizzkidy
Demonic Retribution
Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 12:13:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Wizzkidy
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: Wizzkidy
The only time the Zealot was over powered was before they sorted out that stacking issue with heat sink 2's, this was when the zealot was feared.
Now with omni tanking even WITH the EM resis changes (and I have tested this)
The zealot if slightly better but you still can't fit a full rack of heavy dmg beams without being gimped so I really don't see your point.
Amarr NEEDED something! can you not let us have SOMETHING instead of moaning like a little ****
I'll embrace the changes to the Zealot, if CCP refrains from the armor EM resitance changes and most importantly, the insane changes to the Deimos.
I havn't tried the Deimos as I can't fly them but a low slot for a med slot can't all THAT bad can it? I mean you get to fit ECM? recharger? booster? Tracking computer? , fair enough tank might go down a little but I can't see it gimping the ship 100%
to make full use of that bonus you need either dual MAR or MAR + plate setup, wich, combined with the injector means that you can only fit electrons.
and you still have less cap, wich can be countered by the injector but you'll run out of charges after the first fight, since you can only pack some 8, and that's with 1000 units of ammo.
So really the question remains, what makes this ship gimped after the change? Explain to me why an extra low slow over a med makes the deimos? tank alone?
|
NebulaSurfer
Amarr
White Star Corporation
Talon Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 12:44:00 -
[66]
if ya cant fit the 5th laser...leave it out? the zealot and omen will still work the same. 
I'm flying only Amarr ships and i would like to testify that i dont regret 1 bit going down this line.
its a minor boost for amarr (which nerfs others a bit). if the devs boost other races, then others will get nerf (including amarr) 
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 13:49:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Grimpak
the zealot however can go up to 34km and maintain the same damage, a range where the vaga will struggle to do that kind of damage, even with falloff rigs added.
wich means that the point of DPS not being the only number, still stands.
Exept both ships will need to be within scram range unless they like looking at empty space.
The high range of the zealot is largely pointless with pulse laser outfits.
And it is also ignoring the other benefits of the vaga, especially his far higher survivability.
well just use a tackler then.
and no, you're not the only race that is faced with that problem.
people need to see that solo-pvp is not the only thing, and that are better ships in the amarr fleet for solo work.
Either DONT compare 2 ships that have nothing to do with each other, ie different roles or DONT use arguments like "use a tackler".
--------------------------------------
The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 13:54:00 -
[68]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 04/02/2008 13:54:15
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: Goumindong
Edited by: Goumindong on 03/02/2008 19:05:30
The Zealot was the second least damagning Hac in the game.
You're trolling.
The Vagabond was, before the changes to the Sacrilege were made....
The vaga can get over 550dps with a workable speed fit and hobgoblin II's. Neither Caldari hac comes close to that. I'm assuming you're taking falloff into account and I can tell you right now, there is no way in hell an Eagle outdamages the vagabond in its optimal (high falloff).
If anything the Vaga needs 4 guns given its other strengths and I say this as a character that flies a vagbond daily.
---------------
you all smell! |
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 13:57:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Grimpak
the zealot however can go up to 34km and maintain the same damage, a range where the vaga will struggle to do that kind of damage, even with falloff rigs added.
wich means that the point of DPS not being the only number, still stands.
Exept both ships will need to be within scram range unless they like looking at empty space.
The high range of the zealot is largely pointless with pulse laser outfits.
And it is also ignoring the other benefits of the vaga, especially his far higher survivability.
well just use a tackler then.
and no, you're not the only race that is faced with that problem.
people need to see that solo-pvp is not the only thing, and that are better ships in the amarr fleet for solo work.
Either DONT compare 2 ships that have nothing to do with each other, ie different roles or DONT use arguments like "use a tackler".
it wasn't me who started the comparison however
---
planetary interaction idea! |
Skyr
ECP Rogues
The Reckoning.
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 14:06:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Durethia
...
I respect your opinion regarding Deimos, however stay away from my Zealot  . The change is needed.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 14:16:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Wizzkidy
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Wizzkidy
Originally by: Durethia
Originally by: Wizzkidy
The only time the Zealot was over powered was before they sorted out that stacking issue with heat sink 2's, this was when the zealot was feared.
Now with omni tanking even WITH the EM resis changes (and I have tested this)
The zealot if slightly better but you still can't fit a full rack of heavy dmg beams without being gimped so I really don't see your point.
Amarr NEEDED something! can you not let us have SOMETHING instead of moaning like a little ****
I'll embrace the changes to the Zealot, if CCP refrains from the armor EM resitance changes and most importantly, the insane changes to the Deimos.
I havn't tried the Deimos as I can't fly them but a low slot for a med slot can't all THAT bad can it? I mean you get to fit ECM? recharger? booster? Tracking computer? , fair enough tank might go down a little but I can't see it gimping the ship 100%
to make full use of that bonus you need either dual MAR or MAR + plate setup, wich, combined with the injector means that you can only fit electrons.
and you still have less cap, wich can be countered by the injector but you'll run out of charges after the first fight, since you can only pack some 8, and that's with 1000 units of ammo.
So really the question remains, what makes this ship gimped after the change? Explain to me why an extra low slow over a med makes the deimos? tank alone?
well, for once you can say goodbye to the close range damage support role that the ship had and was designed for.
you can also say goodbye to a very unique bonus that only some 5 ships in the entire game have.
and cap.
the changes are basically pushing the deimos to a territory where you can compare it to a brutix with less tank, less gank, less cap and less fitting stats.
also the changes are screwing up with a ship that didn't had any problem before, specially after a 70-page thread and nearly 2 years waiting for it to recieve that tiny bit of boost that put it on the role that has today.
---
planetary interaction idea! |
Shirazz
Amarr
Original Pirating Material
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 14:23:00 -
[72]
I dont really see the huge probel with the changes to the deimos tbh. The abscence of 1 low slot (eg an EANM) is easily conpensated for by the new rep bonus making the repped 1.5* as effective. The MWD cap bonus this replaced is then compensated for by the extra cap. The new med, with the extra fitting then means that a cap booster cap be added giving the cap to run the repper and guns simultaiously. Fine its a slight nerf for a passive tank but if you really wanted to you could fit an EWAR mod to compensate this.
Tbh I think the extra turret on the omen and zealot isnt enough and they need slight pg and cpu buffs to go half way to being able to fit them. Even if this came about they wouldnt have enough cap to run the things without a cap booster instead of a web. A 100pg increase and 15cpu would be good enough for this aim.
Behold Castra Noor, Failed Troller! |
Grimpak
Gallente
Trinity Nova
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 14:29:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Shirazz
I dont really see the huge probel with the changes to the deimos tbh. The abscence of 1 low slot (eg an EANM) is easily conpensated for by the new rep bonus making the repped 1.5* as effective. The MWD cap bonus this replaced is then compensated for by the extra cap. The new med, with the extra fitting then means that a cap booster cap be added giving the cap to run the repper and guns simultaiously. Fine its a slight nerf for a passive tank but if you really wanted to you could fit an EWAR mod to compensate this.
the huge problem is that they are changing a ship that doesn't need a change.
---
planetary interaction idea! |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Eve University
|
Posted - 2008.02.04 16:32:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Shirazz
I dont really see the huge probel with the changes to the deimos tbh. The abscence of 1 low slot (eg an EANM) is easily conpensated for by the new rep bonus making the repped 1.5* as effective. The MWD cap bonus this replaced is then compensated for by the extra cap. The new med, with the extra fitting then means that a cap booster cap be added giving the cap to run the repper and guns simultaiously. Fine its a slight nerf for a passive tank but if you really wanted to you could fit an EWAR mod to compensate this.
1) The rep bonus is nearly useless when you lose all your HP during the 9 second rep cycle. Very few people fit reppers on the lighter blasterboats for that reason - you simply don't have the raw HP to rely on an active tank, especially since any fleet commander worth his salt will call you primary.
2) The MWD bonus loss is NOT compensated for, as pointed out many times in this thread and others where people did the math to back their statements up.
3) If I'm running an injector to keep the tank and guns up, I lose what little staying power I had.
4) EWAR is nearly useless on a non-EWAR ship nowadays - about all that works anymore are ECM drones.
5) If I wanted a Brutix, I'd fly a Brutix and save 80m isk, not the Deimos. The new Deimos is the embodiment of what many cynical bean counters see HACs as: undersized, underpowered battlecruisers.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |