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one way CCP could deal a hard blow against chinese isk farmers

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Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:29:00 - [1] I fly in 0.0 space pretty often and I have observed patterns and behavior of local chinese isk farmers for a long time. I believe CCP could deliver a hard blow to their daily operations if they did the following: Use database search to find all characters that has been in NPC noob corp for more than 3 months, that are currently located in 0.0 space, and that are currently flying Raven battleship. Issue 1 week temporary ban to all of them. At same time, send a letter to all of them from CCP customer support, explaining that this bad is part of the anti-isk seller iniciative and that everyone is free to petition this ban. If a person petitions it and they sound human, then unban them without investigation. If they send the same copy+paste email to many different characters, unban only first one and don't unban the others. If one email asks to unban 5+ characters, investigate their case. I'd imagine most of the isk farmers wouldn't bother with petitioned. The few valid cases can be resolved quickly. People who quit EVE or temporary away from EVE will get unbanned after 1 week ban expires.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:32:00 - [2] and so.... in a week everything goes back to normal? what does that accomplish? all this would do is ** off paying customers and overload GMs with petitions. Originally by:** Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
Sphit Kar	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:32:00 - [3] better yet. Give me a gun or twelve and a 00 license.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Ephemeron I fly in 0.0 space pretty often and I have observed patterns and behavior of local chinese isk farmers for a long time. I believe CCP could deliver a hard blow to their daily operations if they did the following: Use database search to find all characters that has been in NPC noob corp for more than 3 months, that are currently located in 0.0 space, and that are currently flying Raven battleship. Issue 1 week temporary ban to all of them. At same time, send a letter to all of them from CCP customer support, explaining that this bad is part of the anti-isk seller iniciative and that everyone is free to petition this ban. If a person petitions it and they sound human, then unban them without investigation. If they send the same copy+paste email to many different characters, unban only first one and don't unban the others. If one email asks to unban 5+ characters, investigate their case. I'd imagine most of the isk farmers wouldn't bother with petitioned. The few valid cases can be resolved quickly. People who quit EVE or temporary away from EVE will get unbanned after 1 week ban expires. While that's an interesting idea, I don't think it would work. First of all, every single ISK farmer would almost certainly petition - why wouldn't they, after all? Taking the ten minutes to write a petition is certainly worth not losing 160+ hours of farming. By changing a few words or switching sentences around they could avoid sounding too similar in their petition text as well. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:39:00 - [5] Brilliant. And every guy in 0.0 flying a raven and ratting would get a nasty wake up call and spend several days waiting to be unbanned which would most likely result in leaving the game completely. In the mean time farmers flying in low sec/high sec with actual mining ships would still run rampant as will the macro mission runners. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn and so.... in a week everything goes back to normal? what does that accomplish? all this would do is **** off paying customers and overload GMs with petitions. It hurts the farmers, which is the entire point. Most chinese farmers wouldn't even grasp the concept of 1 week ban, they would attempt to switch to new characters immidiately and adjust their tactics to prevent future ban like this. All this is going to be very taxing on their resources. I'd imagine that only about 400 characters meet the criteria I specified. There should be very few valid customers among them. And if they are a valid customer, why exactly would they be in 0.0 with NPC corp for over 3 months, farming in a Raven? there's something inherintly wrong with such behavior. So they would have to deal with unbanning themselves and maybe it would encourage them to join some corp. These methods are harsh, but that's the style of EVE.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Tarminic While that's an interesting idea, I don't think it would work. First of all, every single ISK farmer would almost certainly petition - why wouldn't they, after all? Taking the ten minutes to write a petition is certainly worth not losing 160+ hours of farming. By changing a few words or switching sentences around they could avoid sounding too similar in their petition text as well. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be smart enough to mix up words in their petitions. And even if they did figure out after a 100th rejection, any person with classroom teaching experience would easily identify people who use someone else's work. The goal is to hurt them, and enjoy hurting them.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:45:00 - [8] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Brilliant. And every guy in 0.0 flying a raven and ratting would get a nasty wake up call and spend several days waiting to be unbanned which would most likely result in leaving the game completely. In the mean time farmers flying in low sec/high sec with actual mining ships would still run rampant as will the macro mission runners. No, remember I specifically said that only people in NPC noob corp for 3 months will get counted. Normal ratters won't get effected, even if they are temporarily between corps.
Lothros Andastar Gallente The Beer Barons	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:45:00 - [9] You sir, are an idiot. Also I take offense at your racist comments in the title. Just because someone is a farmer doesn't mean they are Chinese. I am reporting you to the ISD for racist comment. Enjoy your 1 week ban
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:55:00 - [10] I'll admit that my own experience is not enough to conclude that all of the 0.0 isk farmers are chinese. However, most of the time when I saw them write anything in local, it was chinese characters. Their names, mostly gibberish, sometimes carry oriental style naming. I don't imply that all Chinese are isk farmers. But most isk farmers are chinese
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Lothros Andastar You sir, are an idiot. Also I take offense at your racist comments in the title. Just because someone is a farmer doesn't mean they are Chinese. I am reporting you to the ISD for racist comment. Enjoy your 1 week ban are u from usa ? transformers!! do u see them ?
Duke Val'Doom The Watchers Society	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:59:00 - [12] Edited by: Duke Val''Doom on 04/02/2008 20:59:07 I guess it would work, because all the noobs that might buy isk would quit eve....then slowly Eve would die with no new meat to throw into the grinder. _____________________________________________ I Survived Bootini and all they gave me was this stupid forum post
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: Tarminic While that's an interesting idea, I don't think it would work. First of all, every single ISK farmer would almost certainly petition - why wouldn't they, after all? Taking the ten minutes to write a petition is certainly worth not losing 160+ hours of farming. By changing a few words or switching sentences around they could avoid sounding too similar in their petition text as well. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be smart enough to mix up words in their petitions. And even if they did figure out after a 100th rejection, any person with classroom teaching experience would easily identify people who use someone else's work. The goal is to hurt them, and enjoy hurting them. Why exactly wouldn't they be smart enough? If me, a college student, can come up with that idea in under five minutes, I doubt that it would take the leaders of a professional ISK-farming enterprise any longer. I mean jeez, it's not like they have apes manning those ravens. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Lothros Andastar You sir, are an idiot. Also I take offense at your racist comments in the title. Just because someone is a farmer doesn't mean they are Chinese. I am reporting you to the ISD for racist comment. Enjoy your 1 week ban Good call, it's important to be politically correct for no reason. Labeling someone for what they are isn't racist. I play games, I live in America, I speak English, therefore I'm an American gamer. If someone lives in China, speaks and writes Chinese, and plays EVE professionally with the intent of selling in-game currency, they're a Chinese ISK seller. Ignorant and misguided liberals are more dangerous to the world than any other type of person, tbqfh. ________________
Feirik	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:05:00 - [15] There are easier ways to deal blows to the farmers, nexus chips was a good example. Its just sad ccp stopped there.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Tarminic Why exactly wouldn't they be smart enough? If me, a college student, can come up with that idea in under five minutes, I doubt that it would take the leaders of a professional ISK-farming enterprise any longer. I mean jeez, it's not like they have apes manning those ravens. Ok, their managers would be smart enough. But then one guy would have to write petition for a dozen or more characters. That enough could give investigators some clues about how different farmer organizations are grouped together and maybe hint at who's owning them. As I keep saying, this won't solve the farmer problem. This only hurts them. It's a way for CCP to go into attack mode without breaking any real laws.
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:12:00 - [17] Edited by: L70Rogue on 04/02/2008 21:17:33 tbh they should just not let chinese players register on tranq server.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Ephemeron No, remember I specifically said that only people in NPC noob corp for 3 months will get counted. Normal ratters won't get effected, even if they are temporarily between corps. I know there are many isk seller operations in low sec and high sec, with mining and some NPC trade good moving. And while I'd love to hurt them, I don't have enough knowledge to propose anything serious. But for case of 0.0 farmers, I have enough knowledge and experience to be confident in what I talk about. At the minimum, I have accumulated at least 100 days of observing 0.0 farmer practices in regions of Venal, Fountain, Delve, Stain. Bet you never thought that some people join a npc corp on purpose. Does little things like not being taxed and no war dec's possible. And just because said person is in a npc corp that automatically means they can't enter 0.0? Wheres it say you HAVE to be in a megacorp to be in 0.0? And again it points out that while it may get a number of macro miners and as you state about 400 very ****ed off players your still going to have loads of macro miners in low sec and high still doing their thing. Why not just petition what you see like everyone else does. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
baltec1	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:14:00 - [19] A better way to go about crippling farmers is to hunt them down ourselves rather than dump a blanket ban that will get alot of legit players
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:15:00 - [20] Originally by: baltec1 A better way to go about crippling farmers is to hunt them down ourselves rather than dump a blanket ban that will get alot of legit players how much legit players 3 months old npc in 00 with ravens >? transformers!! do u see them ?
Feirik	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:16:00 - [21] Lol, ccps made it so easy hunting them down. Everything favours us, local tells us when we find a farmer, the cloak helps us sneak up on them, and dont forget the wcs if the torps hurt too much. Oh and ye, we got titans to counter their ravenblobs. A+++ Killing a raven and inflicting 20-30m loss after insurance doesnt mean anything at all.
Duke Val'Doom The Watchers Society	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:16:00 - [22] Originally by: L70Rogue tbh they should just not let chinese players register on american servers. Ummm....should they let Americans on Iceland servers? _____________________________________________ I Survived Bootini and all they gave me was this stupid forum post
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:18:00 - [23] Originally by: Duke Val'Doom Originally by: L70Rogue tbh they should just not let chinese players register on tranq. Ummm....should they let Americans on Iceland servers? fixed
Feirik	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:20:00 - [24] This is also a bad idea because alot of farmers are in alliances and their own corps. They prefer to be in npccorps, but it wouldnt be any change making corps.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:22:00 - [25] Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: Duke Val'Doom Originally by: L70Rogue tbh they should just not let chinese players register on tranq. Ummm....should they let Americans on Iceland servers? fixed Man, if only the ISK farmers used some kind of device to obscure the actual location from which they're playing...some kind of...proxy perhaps. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Forando Interstellar Cowards	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:30:00 - [26] I still think the best solution has to do with blowing some stuff up over and over! Perhaps I'm just a warmonger?! ..and no, it does not matter if they are genuine farmers or not. Any player who's farming 0.0 has a nice 'drop-chance' for lucrative faction loot! Enjoy, and fly safe..
baltec1	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:35:00 - [27] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: baltec1 A better way to go about crippling farmers is to hunt them down ourselves rather than dump a blanket ban that will get alot of legit players how much legit players 3 months old npc in 00 with ravens >? more than you would think
Battleclash	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:43:00 - [28] I say we blanket ban all of 0.0. It's the only way to be sure. Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Stupidity is universal.
Ral Ulgur Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:43:00 - [29] If at all, do this to nonchinese farmers as well... But what about my 18 accounts I simultaniously run courier missions on for my personal profit? If I am apt enough to do the same on 4 accounts with ravens running mission it should be my choice to do so... Generating isk within game mechanics is not illegal, selling isk for RL money is.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:45:00 - [30] I think the only thing we can do is ban everyone in Ravens everywhere. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Micheal Dietrich Caldari The Delta Source Dread Sovereign	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:49:00 - [31] Originally by: Tarminic I think the only thing we can do is ban everyone in Ravens everywhere. Crap I better sell my raven and stock up on several battle badgers then. Unsuitable signature removed. Navgator Do you realize how long it took me to size that right to use!?!?!?!
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:53:00 - [32] Originally by: Ral Ulgur If at all, do this to nonchinese farmers as well... Naah, Portuguese gold farmers are good and wholesome. Nigerian and Ukranian too. ---- Anything less is wasted effort
baltec1	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:54:00 - [33] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: baltec1 A better way to go about crippling farmers is to hunt them down ourselves rather than dump a blanket ban that will get alot of legit players This would be effective under 2 conditions: 1) farmer Ravens can't use cloak 2) log off without aggro had 4 minutes timer Right now the cloaking and logging gives farmers near-invulnerability. Boredom if their weapon of choice, no player will camp them for 8+ hours, while they are probably on 2nd account in different system. sounds like an excuse for lazyness to me. if they are mission running then they can be ambushed to and from missions and in the mission itself. If ratting then you can get together a strike force of bombers and ambush them in a belt.
Jenn LaMoe	Posted - 2008.02.04 22:03:00 - [34] sign, rushing out the door but I have to post this.... so didn't check over text So many assumptions in this thread....(and I see it as a personal attack... for reason 1 below) -first of all, Not all Chinese people live in China, theres a difference between the term Chinese and Citizen of people's republic of China. For those who dont know, not all Chinese are from China, or live there. and Chinese defines people of a cultural descent... its kinda like... the Difference Between British national (Nation country) and English/Welsh/Scot (nation people/culture). so yeah, use Citizen of People's Republic of China if you are referring to those within the national borders of China...(Tibetans also falls under there..) get it right...since by using "Chinese" you are pretty much labeling everybody who identifies with the culture... so yeah, to say Chinese farmers are too stupid to petition, cant adapt and everything else in that thread is not so nice on your part.... and to say how could it be racism if stating the truth (that pretty much all farmers are from China/are Chinese).... well, is like saying all Irish are drunks, all Scotsmen loves sheep, all Americans are trigger happy gun-collectors, all Canadian lives in igloos (I am Canadian and I never seen one in real life), all Blacks end up in prison more and have bigger... everything... all English are snobby tourists and all Italians are great lovers... Trust me, even though there are people who want to argue that the above statements are true for the majority... they are not...far from it (and to my disappointment about my Italian girlfriend...) so I urge you to reconsider your world view... unless you are willing to believe in all of those statements. nic-pick number 2: WHY do you need to feel to put the Chinese part? Just farmers will do, your proposal is fine if you replaced every "Chinese Farmer" with just "Farmer" the only thing it changes is that it toned down the hate... -Granted, it could also be just you being caught up in the moment and forget the implications of your words, but there are not so nice things about perpetuating the dislike/hatred of Chinese people (or any group of people) and lastly, on the point of the rmt bussiness. The only way to NOT waste our time and effort to combat these farmers without F****** innocent people is to put in big giant letters in log in: "Buying isk though any means other than buying a GTC from CCP and trade it to another player for isk will Result in the nerfbat up your wallet's Wazoo... " or something like that.... if no one buys isk from farmers, they will move on to something else that pays their bill... and no, farmers WILL find a way.. they are "playing" this game for their next meal.. we are not.. they want it more than we do... mechanics to combat this problem will only end up messing up normal players...farmers will adapt ...(and they did.... lol, compared to 2 years ago...) while casual players suffers... hence yeah, everybody should work on the real problem.... no demand = no profit = move on to something that pay their bills.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 22:04:00 - [35] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: baltec1 A better way to go about crippling farmers is to hunt them down ourselves rather than dump a blanket ban that will get alot of legit players This would be effective under 2 conditions: 1) farmer Ravens can't use cloak 2) log off without aggro had 4 minutes timer Right now the cloaking and logging gives farmers near-invulnerability. Boredom if their weapon of choice, no player will camp them for 8+ hours, while they are probably on 2nd account in different system. sounds like an excuse for lazyness to me. if they are mission running then they can be ambushed to and from missions and in the mission itself. If ratting then you can get together a strike force of bombers and ambush them in a belt. I have enough experience making fast strikes at NPCer farmers. It works on rare occasions, definitely not enough to deter them from coming back. Because local chat gives them instant scout info, when anyone enters their ratting system, they immidiately start to warp out or log out (initiating emergency warp). On average, you have about 20 seconds from time you appear in local to time you scramble their Raven. It is possible if you use an interceptor and correctly guess their belt and if their Raven was within 25 km of the belt beacon. This happens very rarely. I want to revise my original point that besides cloaking and log off timer, alternative condition would be that people who enter local do not appear in local chat for at least 30 seconds - thus giving the attacker some time to find the farmer and surprise him. With current game mechanics, there is no effective way of stopping 0.0 isk farmers. That's why they are there, they know it works, they are making a profit, even with all the 0.0 people trying to kill them.
Jenn LaMoe	Posted - 2008.02.04 22:13:00 - [36] To be honest, a tons of "mechanics" happened and failed... and the farmers eventually adapted (look on market and how they shifted to contracts and "scams" for example...) only thing we can really do without wasting our time is to print out big giant scary billboard for people not to buy isk from the farmers.. and encourage them to do it though CCP's GTC system...

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