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The Titan issue GÇô a recap and a possible solution

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Marlona Sky EntroPraetorian Academy EntroPraetorian Aegis 455	Posted - 2012.02.21 01:27:00 - [151] - Quote There must be 50+ different things that all contribute to the super capital issue. Individually they are insignificant, but combined they turn into a major eye sore for null and low sec space. One must first identify all the contributing factors and address each individually while keeping an eye on the big picture. Simply tossing out some blanket solution will not work. Flight of a Thousand Rifters: A Player Event
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2123	Posted - 2012.02.21 01:32:00 - [152] - Quote jm24 wrote: The solution to titans is to stop whining and build your own. You own tech, you own space, so stop reimbursing morons in roaming drakes and save up for a couple titans and be brave. cutting off reimbursement for delve losses was a good start yeah no i'm not actually running for csm7 got you lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ptraci StoneWall Metals Productions Bloodbound. 334	Posted - 2012.02.21 01:58:00 - [153] - Quote Angela Constantine wrote: No one will... ...read your drivel anyway Fixed that for you.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 137	Posted - 2012.02.21 02:16:00 - [154] - Quote Andski wrote: jm24 wrote: The solution to titans is to stop whining and build your own. You own tech, you own space, so stop reimbursing morons in roaming drakes and save up for a couple titans and be brave. cutting off reimbursement for delve losses was a good start Tell me more about delve. Anyway we like losing drakes, it's the next best thing to losing rifters. No idea what CFC titan production numbers are, sure it's secret though :spai:
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution 151	Posted - 2012.02.21 09:40:00 - [155] - Quote As someone who does not fly supers or even in high sec, I am going to post the following, but will take the criticism (if warrented). The biggest issues with supers as I understand them are Titan tracking killing everything including sub-caps Supers (SC and titans) being able to rapidly move accross the galaxy, bringing OMGWTFBBQ firepower in next to no time (but at a high cost in fuel) Super carriers not being able to field a flight on fighters AND fighter bombers Supers EWAR making it hard for non-supers to counter To me, the following is entirely reasonable fix Super carriers can field a flight of bombers AND fighters. The fighters will have a chance to apply some DPS to BS and maybe BC. Supers have a count down timer (e.g. 5 minutes) before thier engines allow them to jump again (even if they DO have the cap). Some sci-fi stuf such as engine XYZ needs to cool down etc... The ship class that we NEVER see fielded except at Alliance Torny time actually gets a proper role - Electronic Attack Frigates CAN apply their EWAR against supers. Why do I say this? Firstly, supers can't field drones. They are supposed to be the heavy hitters. They should be able to use fighters on smaller targets though. Secondly, the cool down time to jump for supers would stop them being moved rapidly. It would give FCs with intel of what is around, a known window before super blobs can be dropped. Lastly and most importantly - this ship class is never used in normal game use due to the cost vs benefits. If they can apply EWAR to supers however, they become useful. Since supers will not be able to shoot them effectively, it means the supers must be accompanied by smaller ships AS THEY SHOULD. A sub-cap fleet with EAF support would be able to kill unaccompanied supers. The EAF are very fragile being frigs, so drones, frigates, destroyers and cruisers etc... will be able to take them out, preventing them being a over powered vs supers. By doing this, it limits how quickly power can be projected, requiring alliances to plan where to project their heavy hitters or limiting how quickly the bat phone can bring in support. It also grants an existing ship class a new role without having to create new cap ships to perform the same role AND forces them to bring sub-cap support. Fix Faction Warfare CCP!!! Vote Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM 7
Joseph Tokugawa Chaos Theory Exploration 0	Posted - 2012.02.21 10:57:00 - [156] - Quote Well I'm not quite the elite PVPer by any means. Here's my thoughts. Titans & other Capitals don't really incur a significant cost after construction so they can be amassed over time. That's the issue. I imagine it takes quite a while to field Titan fleets of the scale we're referring to but yet no cost is incurred after construction except fuel. Why not simply add a maintenence fee per month or week or whatever to the corp/alliance that owns the super cap / capital. Apply a very inexpensive fee for Dread and Carriers while having a massive fee for super caps. Don't nerf them since they seem balanced in their role. The problem is that they numerically persist and grow. I imagine even as far in the future as eve is **** still breaks. Massive ships have a massive cost associated with them. I don't have enough information to recommend a valid cost / time figure but I'm sure someone can figure that in. Capital/Super Cap ships simply get a maintenence cost to upkeep the massive ship. Hurt a group's bottom line and those Super Caps will actually begin hurting the alliance/corp that owns them. Individual groups will then have to decide how many they can afford to upkeep and how to deploy them. Even null sec needs to get their goods to markets right? Titans and Super Carriers can't just wander around escorting freighters. Super Caps continue to be an investment and symbol of strength while the intent of the game centered around sub-Cap and caps is maintained. Plus it gives an oppenent looking to hurt a group with a larger capital fleet a different means than hoping they can catch one or two alone or OUT capital the opponent. Just my thoughts.
Headerman Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx 641	Posted - 2012.02.21 11:06:00 - [157] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: [quote=M5 Tuttle]There's some problem with ~elite pvp~ Titans not wanting to engage stuff that might kill them... Don't worry, that mentality is not limited to RDN/NC. Really? 4 to 1 and you still can't win? The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why?
Headerman Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx 641	Posted - 2012.02.21 11:08:00 - [158] - Quote Joseph Tokugawa wrote: Well I'm not quite the elite PVPer by any means. Here's my thoughts. Titans & other Capitals don't really incur a significant cost after construction so they can be amassed over time. That's the issue. I imagine it takes quite a while to field Titan fleets of the scale we're referring to but yet no cost is incurred after construction except fuel. Why not simply add a maintenence fee per month or week or whatever to the corp/alliance that owns the super cap / capital. Apply a very inexpensive fee for Dread and Carriers while having a massive fee for super caps. Don't nerf them since they seem balanced in their role. The problem is that they numerically persist and grow. I imagine even as far in the future as eve is **** still breaks. Massive ships have a massive cost associated with them. I don't have enough information to recommend a valid cost / time figure but I'm sure someone can figure that in. Capital/Super Cap ships simply get a maintenence cost to upkeep the massive ship. Hurt a group's bottom line and those Super Caps will actually begin hurting the alliance/corp that owns them. Individual groups will then have to decide how many they can afford to upkeep and how to deploy them. Even null sec needs to get their goods to markets right? Titans and Super Carriers can't just wander around escorting freighters. Super Caps continue to be an investment and symbol of strength while the intent of the game centered around sub-Cap and caps is maintained. Plus it gives an oppenent looking to hurt a group with a larger capital fleet a different means than hoping they can catch one or two alone or OUT capital the opponent. Just my thoughts. Na. Open the door to this kinda thing and you will see people banging on about expanding it to other ship... Just like a titan nerf... The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why?
Temuken Radzu Bendebeukers Green Rhino 10	Posted - 2012.02.21 11:15:00 - [159] - Quote It would be a better idea to introduce a way to fight supercaps without the use of other caps. Unfortunately, captitals mostly immune to frigate class ships. I would like to see that frigates or only interceptors ships can destroy some of the subsystems of capitals, like repair systems, weapon systems and engines Think of the posibility''s... while frigates still lack the dps to actualy destroy capitals. They still contribute to the fleet to take down captal blobs quickly. lets keep capitals/supers a minor but inportant asset of the fleet, but very vulnerable in blobs if they encounter a large fleet of frigates. After the cap blob is completely paralyzed, the bigger ships can get in for the kill...
Ursula LeGuinn 139	Posted - 2012.02.21 23:29:00 - [160] - Quote Just give all supercaps exhaust vents and introduce Proton Torpedo Launcher III for frigates. Done. "The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community."-áGÇö-áEVElopedia
Gizznitt Malikite Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 207	Posted - 2012.02.22 01:01:00 - [161] - Quote They NEED to change the damage formula for CAPITAL SHIPS Weapons.... Essentially, a formula that scales damage like missiles, for all capital weapons, even XL turrets. This would put all capital ship weapons on par with each other. They could introduce new capital weapon enhancement skills that only work on capital weapons, and they could tweak the formula so capital weapons just don't work well on subcaps, especially fast moving and/or sub-BS sized ships. This would make supercaps vulernable to subcaps... and then tweak dreads and carriers to be anti-supcap platforms. Hell, give sieged dreads a BONUS to killing BS sized vessels, and probably give carriers a few more penatlies (i.e. give fighters the 400mm turret sig like propsed, rather than their 125mm sig!!!) By forcing dreads to siege when engaging subcaps, and leaving assault carriers vulnerable to EWAR, the subcap-cap fights are more balanced, and supercaps essentially play anti-cap and anti-structure roles. If you feel that supercaps then are too limited and no longer have an appropriate role given the enormous player investment they represent, give supercaps nice bonuses to their Racial EWAR.
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution 151	Posted - 2012.02.22 02:40:00 - [162] - Quote Joseph Tokugawa wrote: Well I'm not quite the elite PVPer by any means. Here's my thoughts. Titans & other Capitals don't really incur a significant cost after construction so they can be amassed over time. That's the issue. I imagine it takes quite a while to field Titan fleets of the scale we're referring to but yet no cost is incurred after construction except fuel. Why not simply add a maintenence fee per month or week or whatever to the corp/alliance that owns the super cap / capital. Apply a very inexpensive fee for Dread and Carriers while having a massive fee for super caps. Don't nerf them since they seem balanced in their role. The problem is that they numerically persist and grow. I imagine even as far in the future as eve is **** still breaks. Massive ships have a massive cost associated with them. I don't have enough information to recommend a valid cost / time figure but I'm sure someone can figure that in. Capital/Super Cap ships simply get a maintenence cost to upkeep the massive ship. Hurt a group's bottom line and those Super Caps will actually begin hurting the alliance/corp that owns them. Individual groups will then have to decide how many they can afford to upkeep and how to deploy them. Even null sec needs to get their goods to markets right? Titans and Super Carriers can't just wander around escorting freighters. Super Caps continue to be an investment and symbol of strength while the intent of the game centered around sub-Cap and caps is maintained. Plus it gives an oppenent looking to hurt a group with a larger capital fleet a different means than hoping they can catch one or two alone or OUT capital the opponent. Just my thoughts. This fails since you cannot impose the cost on a corp/alliance if a person is in an NPC corp. And people would move into them to avoid the fee. And you cannot impose a restriction that super pilots MUST be in a non-NPC corp otherwise moving corps gets more difficult or prevents a CEO from kicking a member. The ONLY way this could possibly work is if the cost was on the individual, which I am not convinced is a good idea. Fix Faction Warfare CCP!!! Vote Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM 7
BIGTEX123 Screaming War Eagles Incorporated 3	Posted - 2012.02.22 04:36:00 - [163] - Quote I believe the root of the problem here is that CCP did not design the ships with expansion of the player base in mind. They were designed for a very few to afford and pilot, after they had put in a large amount of time and effort into obtaining the ISK, materials, and skill points to own a titan, or even a super carrier (mother ship). It seems they did not take into consideration the expansion of their player base and the increased number of people who would eventually take on the task of owning their own capital ship. If they really wanted to fix the issues of all capitals in general they should really take into consideration a major revamp of what roles capitals ships should have and how they interact with each other and sub-capital ships. As well as future expansion of the player base and how the increased supply and demand they will bring to the game effects how capital ships are obtained and the abilities they would have because of that. Yes titans are usually only flown by a select few of the entire EvE universe but it's simple numbers. 1% of 1,000 people is a lot smaller than 1% of 60,000. (Numbers are just examples) Well that's my two cents to add at this moment.
Zhade Lezte Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2012.02.22 20:24:00 - [164] - Quote Reilly Duvolle wrote: baltec1 wrote: This happened last time. Nerfing titans is all one big CFC conspiricy to take over all of 0.0 with the all mighty blob. Although if we talk about the blob, elite pvp or tactics we will be off topic dispite the OP originally brining up the subject. Oh I get that you dont acknowledge the basic premise of this thread. But since ignoring the premise of a discussion is the recipie for destruction of that discussion in the first place - as you bloody well know - I am concluding that it is in yours and your masters best interest to destroy discussions like this. Every thread on this subject you to try to twist into be about how the shining white knights of Deklein - defenders of EVEs goodness - is abused by de despicable, game abusing, probably exploiting forces af "elite pvp". Which enables you to ignore the topic and instead use the tread to sperg whatever propaganda your masters have told to to fill the forums with, like the good little monkey you are. But I know at some point the spin doctors would take over. So be my guest. have fun sperging. Speaking of biased players and ~spin doctors~ Reilly Duvolle wrote: +1 For Elise aka Wasp O'Ryan, for the highest number of kills using a Titan in 2011 :) welp, you fooled me.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 140	Posted - 2012.02.22 20:54:00 - [165] - Quote Headerman wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: There's some problem with ~elite pvp~ Titans not wanting to engage stuff that might kill them... Don't worry, that mentality is not limited to RDN/NC. Really? 4 to 1 and you still can't win? Hm. Oh well. Being blueballed by titan blobs is really odd though, there were cases where we were bloody sure they had supercaps, but they never jumped in to bash/defend POS. Maybe because they saw scouts they thought it was a bait? If I was to try thinking seriously, my best bet is that they were worried about supercarriers or something jumping them after welpfleet/drakefleet ties them down. They like hotdropping, so I suppose they would be expecting something besides just endless drakes. That or the threat of having dreadnaughts jump in the moment they were tackled. Which might be more reasonable expectations of our strategy. EDIT: Wait, I was just supposed to be laughing about being blueballed by a titan blob, what the heck happened. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
Reilly Duvolle Hydra Squadron 410	Posted - 2012.02.23 08:40:00 - [166] - Quote Zhade Lezte wrote: Reilly Duvolle wrote: baltec1 wrote: This happened last time. Nerfing titans is all one big CFC conspiricy to take over all of 0.0 with the all mighty blob. Although if we talk about the blob, elite pvp or tactics we will be off topic dispite the OP originally brining up the subject. Oh I get that you dont acknowledge the basic premise of this thread. But since ignoring the premise of a discussion is the recipie for destruction of that discussion in the first place - as you bloody well know - I am concluding that it is in yours and your masters best interest to destroy discussions like this. Every thread on this subject you to try to twist into be about how the shining white knights of Deklein - defenders of EVEs goodness - is abused by de despicable, game abusing, probably exploiting forces af "elite pvp". Which enables you to ignore the topic and instead use the tread to sperg whatever propaganda your masters have told to to fill the forums with, like the good little monkey you are. But I know at some point the spin doctors would take over. So be my guest. have fun sperging. Speaking of biased players and ~spin doctors~ Reilly Duvolle wrote: +1 For Elise aka Wasp O'Ryan, for the highest number of kills using a Titan in 2011 :) welp, you fooled me. I think I have made very clear throughout this thread that I consider titans - ship for ship - absolutely fine as they are. So when I give Elise a well done for beeing an awesome PVPer in a titan, I dont think that breaks with anything that I have said previsosly. What I do not like, is the attempts made by your alliance mates in this thread to turn this discussion away from the topic - which is titans - into some sort of ideological debate of playstyles. Did that help?
baltec1 671	Posted - 2012.02.23 08:44:00 - [167] - Quote Reilly Duvolle wrote: I think I have made very clear throughout this thread that I consider titans - ship for ship - absolutely fine as they are. So when I give Elise a well done for beeing an awesome PVPer in a titan, I dont think that breaks with anything that I have said previsosly. What I do not like, is the attempts made by your alliance mates in this thread to turn this discussion away from the topic - which is titans - into some sort of ideological debate of playstyles. Did that help? Yep, takes a lot of skill to get bridged in and not move at all while blapping anything and everything with no risk.
Reilly Duvolle Hydra Squadron 410	Posted - 2012.02.23 08:46:00 - [168] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Reilly Duvolle wrote: I think I have made very clear throughout this thread that I consider titans - ship for ship - absolutely fine as they are. So when I give Elise a well done for beeing an awesome PVPer in a titan, I dont think that breaks with anything that I have said previsosly. What I do not like, is the attempts made by your alliance mates in this thread to turn this discussion away from the topic - which is titans - into some sort of ideological debate of playstyles. Did that help? Yep, takes a lot of skill to get bridged in and not move at all while blapping anything and everything with no risk. Show me on the doll where the bad man touched you.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2154	Posted - 2012.02.23 08:52:00 - [169] - Quote stop arguing with reilly duvolle, he's an idiot yeah no i'm not actually running for csm7 got you lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Akirei Scytale Test Alliance Please Ignore 901	Posted - 2012.02.23 08:52:00 - [170] - Quote Headerman wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: [quote=M5 Tuttle]There's some problem with ~elite pvp~ Titans not wanting to engage stuff that might kill them... Don't worry, that mentality is not limited to RDN/NC. Really? 4 to 1 and you still can't win? Looks to me like they won the ISK war. Just because there are fewer baskets doesn't mean less eggs got crushed. A vote for Akirei is a vote for Awesome!
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 564	Posted - 2012.04.10 20:02:00 - [171] - Quote Hope we see some bold cap moves in Inferno... this thread is relevant. Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦ GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Reilly Duvolle Hydra Squadron 456	Posted - 2012.04.11 13:46:00 - [172] - Quote Gogela wrote: Hope we see some bold cap moves in Inferno... this thread is relevant. Doesnt seem likely. They are applying band aid to the titan (see Greyscales latest thread) because they dont want to tackle the whole capital rebalancing issue now. I guess they might do it as part of a general sov revamp which is on the horizon. I think they want to let Dust514 settle in nicely before they do that however, since Dust514 could potentially be used as the main sov mechanic for 0.0 space if it is successful. Also, the whole ship rebalancing effort is starting at the bottom, working its way up, so it will take a while to reach the capitals. Given this, I dont expect to see "Dominion 2.0" with a possible capital revamp until summer next year, possibly with a pos/indy/lowsec themed expansion for the winter release.

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