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Po3tank	Posted - 2008.02.09 04:52:00 - [1] Assault frigs need some love give them immunity to WEBS make them a viable pvp ship As it stand almost anything can kill Assault frigs, except T1 frigs and destroyers
Franconis Gallente True Foundation R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.02.09 04:55:00 - [2] Learn to fly a better ship. Also, a buddy of mine does very well in a harpy (Kills HACs/BCs etc) so AFs are not useless.
Garmon Minmatar Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.02.09 05:09:00 - [3] Originally by: Franconis Learn to fly a better ship. Also, a buddy of mine does very well in a harpy (Kills HACs/BCs etc) so AFs are not useless. Then those HACs/BCs are ******s
NoNah	Posted - 2008.02.09 05:10:00 - [4] Originally by: Po3tank Assault frigs need some love give them immunity to WEBS make them a viable pvp ship As it stand almost anything can kill Assault frigs, except T1 frigs and destroyers Any ship can kill any ship, short of capitals. AF's are subpar, but giving them webimmunity is just way way way to much. Especially when you start considering having them orbiting at 3km/s at 500m, dealing 300 dps each. For 30 mil a piece ships!? Postcount: 125657
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.02.09 05:52:00 - [5] Originally by: NoNah AF's are subpar, but giving them webimmunity is just way way way to much. Especially when you start considering having them orbiting at 3km/s at 500m, dealing 300 dps each. For 30 mil a piece ships!? WTB assault frigate orbiting at 500m doing 3km/s dealing 300dps. I'd even pay 60mill, any sellers?
Shereza	Posted - 2008.02.09 05:53:00 - [6] I don't think web immunity would be all that good a thing for assault ships. I do believe, however, that replacing the fake resistance bonuses with the original T1 bonuses would be a possible help. From what I understand the fake bonuses used to "give" the ships their "assault" class resistance bonuses were put into place because the devs felt that an assault ship with 4 real bonuses and "assault" class resistances would be overpowered. Well, as it turns out it seems that assault ships are the only T2 combat ships without a T2 resistance bonus. Even interdictors/interceptors get a 10% (flat) bonus to one of their armor and shield resistances. Yet if you take away the per level resistance bonuses on standard assault ships you're left with T1 resistances. You know, I'm sure it won't "fix" the "problem" with assault ships but maybe starting there and giving the ships real T2 combat ship resistance bonuses would be a start in the right direction. ____________________ Behold the universal power of duct tape.
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.02.09 06:02:00 - [7] Quit trying to make the ship have lame arse roles. Its mass is gross try aligning during a gatecamp when your used to frig class ships. Its missing in every AF its CORE T1 base skill. I fly T1's and T2's of the models its very noticable. If they decide after those fixes they need a role bonus so be it but these attempts at just role bonus are not going to fix anything.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.02.09 06:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Corstaad Quit trying to make the ship have lame arse roles. Its mass is gross try aligning during a gatecamp when your used to frig class ships. Its missing in every AF its CORE T1 base skill. So true, one of the primary problems is they handle like cows, not to mention accelerating takes ages. Seriously if they get 110-115% mass of their t1 counterparts, built-in resistance and their missing bonus they'd still suck for their price. As for a role bonus, I really like the idea of the AB bonus, make it so they get the same speed boost from ABs as they currently get from MWDs, this would at least give them a bit survivability in web range.
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.02.09 07:02:00 - [9] I resolved myself to make a Jag my solo roamer. That said I'm borderline on rp flying it.
Jaja binx	Posted - 2008.02.09 07:53:00 - [10] I have killed most thing's in my Jaguar solo... Just learn to fly it and get the right skills, you will notice, as a cheap ship it's amazing. Killed a cruiser and battle cruiser last night in about 20 minutes time period. When you get ganged up on in it, it's easy to get out of the mess as well. Please, don't try to make this a scout boat, just learn to use it mate ;)
Saint Bubba Minmatar Pastry Coalition Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.02.09 07:55:00 - [11] That's my alt ^^ sorry, posted with the wrong char :P Originally by: Sakura Nihil That being said, the PvP Force is strong in this one, I forsee a good future full of whining carebears and jealous PvPers crushed under his heels .
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:10:00 - [12] Its solo we know that but a rifter can do it as well. The Deal we need to make it better then a rifter. In almost every case you'll see a AF Aginst a compent opponet will die much the same as a T1 frig. The T2 variant of it is garbage is loses it base stats.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:15:00 - [13] Originally by: Garmon Originally by: Franconis Learn to fly a better ship. Also, a buddy of mine does very well in a harpy (Kills HACs/BCs etc) so AFs are not useless. Then those HACs/BCs are ******s I concur
Saint Bubba Minmatar Pastry Coalition Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:24:00 - [14] Edited by: Saint Bubba on 09/02/2008 08:24:33 Originally by: Corstaad Its solo we know that but a rifter can do it as well. The Deal we need to make it better then a rifter. In almost every case you'll see a AF Aginst a compent opponet will die much the same as a T1 frig. The T2 variant of it is garbage is loses it base stats. Can I have your kill/loss ratio with a Rifter and a Jaguar please? What were you killing with both, I did nothing but use these two ships for a while (6 months - 8 months). If you can't see a difference then you need a lesson on how to fit :P 5 Drones tanking, both can technically but one with no difficulty, Shield tank vs armor tank ;) DPS MWD vs afterburner. Originally by: Sakura Nihil That being said, the PvP Force is strong in this one, I forsee a good future full of whining carebears and jealous PvPers crushed under his heels .
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:30:00 - [15] Originally by: Jaja binx I have killed most thing's in my Jaguar solo... Just learn to fly it and get the right skills, you will notice, as a cheap ship it's amazing. Killed a cruiser and battle cruiser last night in about 20 minutes time period. When you get ganged up on in it, it's easy to get out of the mess as well. Please, don't try to make this a scout boat, just learn to use it mate ;) You were fighting chumps I say!
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:33:00 - [16] Use the internet if you need stats. That said AF is not like orginal T1 we fly.
Saint Bubba Minmatar Pastry Coalition Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Corstaad Use the internet if you need stats. That said AF is not like orginal T1 we fly. Your talking a bit out of your ass here buddy, I asked you questions, I know the answers to them, it was a bit rhetorical ;) Originally by: Sakura Nihil That being said, the PvP Force is strong in this one, I forsee a good future full of whining carebears and jealous PvPers crushed under his heels .
Jaja binx	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:42:00 - [18] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Jaja binx I have killed most thing's in my Jaguar solo... Just learn to fly it and get the right skills, you will notice, as a cheap ship it's amazing. Killed a cruiser and battle cruiser last night in about 20 minutes time period. When you get ganged up on in it, it's easy to get out of the mess as well. Please, don't try to make this a scout boat, just learn to use it mate ;) You were fighting chumps I say! Then it look's like all I can find is chumps in eve
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:45:00 - [19] Just that you managed to kill a BC in a Jaguar doesn't prove they are good at killing them, it proves you found a pilot who doesn't know how to fit his ship (and is probably around 2 weeks old). I killed / ransomed a few BCs in my Jaguar too without taking any significant damage, but the pilots were not prepared for the fight.
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:54:00 - [20] I don't want to get in a ******** EFT discussion, the AF needs a serious revamp. To tell me your AF does great in a fight with overwhelming circumstance means NOTHING. Hehe thats a good Mad Money plug.
xHUN73R	Posted - 2008.02.09 10:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Seriously if they get 110-115% mass of their t1 counterparts, built-in resistance and their missing bonus they'd still suck for their price. Well,this wouldn't work,cuz HACs are lighter and faster than their T1 counterparts. AFs also have CPUand gri problems,so they cannot fit proper tank+gank and mostly - they have rediculous capacitorto use,even with AB. The problem with giving them the speed they need is thatif you have an AF doing 5k and massive dmg the inceptors like taranis and crow will become useless.
Squatdog DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.02.09 11:10:00 - [22] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Po3tank Assault frigs need some love give them immunity to WEBS make them a viable pvp ship As it stand almost anything can kill Assault frigs, except T1 frigs and destroyers Any ship can kill any ship, short of capitals. AF's are subpar, but giving them webimmunity is just way way way to much. Especially when you start considering having them orbiting at 3km/s at 500m, dealing 300 dps each. For 30 mil a piece ships!? Are we playing the same game here? ...and no, no Assault Frigate is going to burn down an AFK passive Drake healing back 150DPS with 60+ resists.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.02.09 12:03:00 - [23] Originally by: xHUN73R Originally by: Lilith Velkor Seriously if they get 110-115% mass of their t1 counterparts, built-in resistance and their missing bonus they'd still suck for their price. Well,this wouldn't work,cuz HACs are lighter and faster than their T1 counterparts. Yes, HACs are lighter and faster than their t1 counterparts. Thats exactly where the logic with AFs being clumsy cows fails, they should be nearly as fast and agile as the t1 variants. Why the t2 cruisers are called HACs while being lighter than the t1 ones is beyond me btw, should be called light assault cruisers but thats not the point here. Quote: AFs also have CPUand gri problems,so they cannot fit proper tank+gank and mostly - they have rediculous capacitorto use,even with AB. Yes, some have also fitting issues, well capacitor I don't know, with AB it seems not that bad really. Quote: The problem with giving them the speed they need is thatif you have an AF doing 5k and massive dmg the inceptors like taranis and crow will become useless. Interceptors have a much higher base speed than AFs, no one is asking to make them faster than interceptors and they won't be.
Arazel Chainfire	Posted - 2008.02.09 16:54:00 - [24] The reason why the AF's are heavier while HAC's are lighter (compared to the base ship they came from) is because if AF's were made lighter they would start encroaching on interceptor's territory too much. HAC's can get away with it because there is no interceptor type ship at the HAC level. That being said, AF's really need some work, and giving them a real 4th bonus would be a great place to start. -Arazel
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2008.02.09 17:06:00 - [25] maybe trying a "5% reduction to speed reduction from webs" (:P) bonus on certain ships would show interesting and maybe even desirable results?
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.02.09 17:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Franconis Learn to fly a better ship. Also, a buddy of mine does very well in a harpy (Kills HACs/BCs etc) so AFs are not useless. lol...stop lying.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.09 17:11:00 - [27] Give AF's a damage bonus against bigger ships
Ishan Mons Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.09 18:55:00 - [28] well currently AFs are slower than their HAC counterparts with both of the only running a AB/MWD... nevermind the ability to fit more nano/stabs/ODs and slower than a cruiser size ship definitely isnt encroaching on Interceptor territory ------------------------ Infrared = heat = thermal Infrared crystals = less therm more EM I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS! Reach in front of a 10watt CO2 laser some time you'll get it...
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.09 19:22:00 - [29] Originally by: Arazel Chainfire The reason why the AF's are heavier while HAC's are lighter (compared to the base ship they came from) is because if AF's were made lighter they would start encroaching on interceptor's territory too much. HAC's can get away with it because there is no interceptor type ship at the HAC level. I get your point but tbh it makes no sense to me why hac's are t3 interceptors right now while af's are like t1.5 frigates.. but meh i gave up all hope about this game making more sense someday already *Warning! Sig ahead!* Bounty: Jonny JoJo
MenanceWhite Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.09 19:50:00 - [30] Edited by: MenanceWhite on 09/02/2008 19:50:18 Currently: AF costs up to 30 times their t1 counterparts HAC costs up to 15 times their t1 counterparts AF are both slower and heavier compared to t1 (some has both higher mass AND inertia mod) HAC are faster and lighter compared to t1 (turns at about same due to increased inertia mod) AF barely more firepower compared to t1 HAC alot more firepower compared to t1 AF does not retain t1 ship bonus. Uses up a bonus in form of added resists HAC retains t1 ship bonus, additional resist bonis are worked into hull HAC has a much larger cargo than t1 AF only has slightly larger cargo(sometimes no difference) compared to t1 HAC has slightly higher sig radius compared to t1 AF has slightly less sig radius compared to t1 I think a buff is in order. Right now AFs are nothing more than a frig that's slow like hell and tanks somewhat better. Outperformed by a cruiser that's both insureable and at half the pricetag, of course. --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur

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