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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.12 16:59:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 12/02/2008 16:59:53
 Originally by: Ashlspiess
Someone asked me to help them on a level 4 mission in .5 sec security space. I agreed to help, because I'm a nice guy and all. I tell him I'm ready and he warps us. I then end up out in the middle of nowhere, sitting in front of 2 pirates. I quickly leave the gang as I'm being targetted, next thing I know I am warp scrambled and my 350 mill Raven is destroyed.
Where was Concord? Is this some kind of exploit? Is it really fair that I get my ship blown up in high security for offering to help someone out? 
Intended game mechanics, personally I think that you should get a warning when they add someone to the gang that can cause you to become a target, but oh well 
Next time you have a few choices:
1) Don't accept the invite. Hint this is choice #1 for a REASON. Do not, under any circumstances, do something that you did not initiate. It only leads to heart-ache...
2) Try to scam THEM. Accept the invite, warp to location. When your ship starts to slow down from the warp, leave fleet. If you time it right, you will still be blinky to them (especially if there are a bunch of cans from other ships around) due to desync lag but will NOT be a valid target according to the servers. Giggle maniacally while Concord deals with the issue then scoop the loot and run. Of course if you time it wrong you go "Pop!", but sometimes its worth the try 
Originally by: Audri Fisher
On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
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Blank Protection
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.02.12 17:26:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Agent Li
Originally by: Nyx Avatar
You could be wtfpwned.
Just like to now.
What does "wtfpwned" stands for actually?
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ChironV
Caldari
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.02.12 18:02:00 -
[63]
If you stay within the game mechanics there is no accountabilty for your actions. Its interesting to watch people who would normally live within the law have their true natures be revealed when they are given the opportunity to be themselves with no accountabilty for their actions. Cheating, intimidation, extortion, ransom and outright murder for the fun of it. Don't have to worry about your actions because there are no consequenses.
Eve, where the darkside of human psychology makes "woopie!" 
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It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
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Ernesto Hoost
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Posted - 2008.02.12 18:24:00 -
[64]
Originally by: ChironV
Cheating, intimidation, extortion, ransom and outright murder for the fun of it. Don't have to worry about your actions because there are no consequenses.
Eve, where the darkside of human psychology makes "woopie!"
Thats not limited to EVE btw. It's the ability to do things in a "game" that you can't do in real life that is the appeal of many successful games.
Grand Theft Auto, ManHunt, Doom are all fairly violent, yet very popular.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.02.12 19:02:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Avery Fatwallet
Edited by: Avery Fatwallet on 12/02/2008 13:36:48
ok for the people that STILL havent got it:
if you pull that trick off correctly, the victim will NOT get a "warring gang" warning.
i dont want to sound like a carebear... but how are new supposed players supposed to find that out?
eve has no FM for RTFM.
the tuts are lacking when it comes to the twisted minds of us players.
no really, all you toughtypes gotta accept that eve also has a pve content. while the mission pve content sucks ass, people STILL enjoy it and want to team up on it.
this trick is one of the things that is VERY hard to learn about for new players.
i really dont know why its not classed an exploit, since you clearly have to use the gamemechanix in a non intended way to pull it off.
i think the "scam" is in fact cool and all, but try to see it from the other pov too.
Adding a warning on the tune of "The new player that has entered the gang has a war active" would be nice.
About "where to learn that" on the new citizens forum it is explained fairly often and when forming a gang with some new player, after getting the boss role for my protection I explain to them why they should not give away the boss role.
If someone read the warning when forming a gang it is evident that forming a gang with someone in a war is a bad idea. The trick of calling in gang a war target is harder to learn. But I have problem seeing how it can be explained to new players without long walls of text that most people will skim and not read really.
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ChironV
Caldari
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2008.02.12 22:02:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Ernesto Hoost
Originally by: ChironV
Cheating, intimidation, extortion, ransom and outright murder for the fun of it. Don't have to worry about your actions because there are no consequenses.
Eve, where the darkside of human psychology makes "woopie!"
Thats not limited to EVE btw. It's the ability to do things in a "game" that you can't do in real life that is the appeal of many successful games.
Grand Theft Auto, ManHunt, Doom are all fairly violent, yet very popular.
I agree, somewhat. Eve is not a violent game in the same genre as those you mentioned. Yes, you blow up someones ship but you dont see the blood and gore which are those games stock and trade. Also, getting "owned" in Eve like the OP is much more painful because unlike those games you mentioned, the OP may have to work for days or weeks to replace his loss.
Eve lets people bring out their darkside and engage in behavior they wouldn't do in real life because there are consequenses. IE: Key some guys car in front of him because he ticked you off. Consequence... Getting punched or arrested.
Pity that the guys who ganked the OP thought so little of their own skills that they had to come up with this elaborate con.
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It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
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Posted - 2008.02.12 22:40:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Blank Protection
Originally by: Agent Li
Originally by: Nyx Avatar
You could be wtfpwned.
Just like to now.
What does "wtfpwned" stands for actually?
means: What The (a curse word starting with a "f" and also containing "k" "c" and a "u" in random order) Owned
As in getting blown up in a big way.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2008.02.12 22:57:00 -
[68]
One of the best 'virtues' a successful EVE player can have is extreme paranoia with prejudice ;)
Yes it is a harsh world, but that is exactly what makes it so attractive. Even for 'good guys' like me. In many other games you are just one among 1000s of paladins. In EVE, you are something special, especially in the PVP environment.
There is no 'n' in turret
There is no 'r' in faction
There is no 'a' in Scorpion
There is no 'e' in Caldari
There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Viper G
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Posted - 2008.02.12 23:01:00 -
[69]
Basically, don't ever form a gang with anyone ever, because they can invite someone right when you drop out of warp (or just moments before)
And if your not fast enough to leave the gang or don't know to leave it, they can target you and start shooting.
So in other words, don't ever help someone with missions. If you want team work join a corporation.
Please refrain from discussions of real life politics in your signature. Navigator |
Ernesto Hoost
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Posted - 2008.02.12 23:20:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Ernesto Hoost on 12/02/2008 23:24:55
Originally by: ChironV
Pity that the guys who ganked the OP thought so little of their own skills that they had to come up with this elaborate con.
That's the beauty of EVE. You can use real life skills, such as social engineering and confidence tricking.
I seriously doubt the guys that ganked the OP were noobs or kiddies. To pull of the scam requires organisation and team work. It also involves setting up a fake alt corp just to carry the war dec to make it happen.
When people are more organized and ruthless than you, yes you will lose. Mission runners are not playing a different game to the rest of us, however they sometimes assume they are in their "safe" little missions.
After being ganked like OP was, most people suddenly realise what the game is about, they take precautions or train up skills to be competitive...or they quit
It's a pvp game..not a fatten my virtual wallet running mission game.
Edit: yes the death penalty in EVE is severe, but that is what makes the pvp so attractive. Name another game that actually gets your adrenalin flowing.
If the fleet battle lag was sorted, I would love this game
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Vested Interest
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:12:00 -
[71]
Why does CCP allow 2 parties who are at war with each other to join a fleet together in the first place? Nobody sees a slight inconsistency there?
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Sekhmet Orion
Mandatory Suicide Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:23:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Vested Interest
Why does CCP allow 2 parties who are at war with each other to join a fleet together in the first place? Nobody sees a slight inconsistency there?
So if 2 R/L friends that happen to be in corps at war withj each other want to gang up and run a mission, you are saying they shouldn't be able to gang up?
EVE imposes few restrictions, there is no night elf to hold your hand in this game.
Actions, and consequences. That is all
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Xen Gin
The Dragoons
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:24:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Vested Interest
Why does CCP allow 2 parties who are at war with each other to join a fleet together in the first place? Nobody sees a slight inconsistency there?
And surely when a gang members corp gets dec'd you should be told of such actions right?
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heheheh
Red.
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Posted - 2008.02.13 01:46:00 -
[74]
Quote:
dont trust anyone further than you can throw them
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Sandeep
Raptus Regaliter
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.13 02:37:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ashlspiess
Someone asked me to help them on a level 4 mission in .5 sec security space. I agreed to help
Next time, YOU form the gang and never give out any command position. Never accept invite from someone you don't know, especially from someone asking for help.
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Richard Third
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Posted - 2008.02.13 03:34:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Richard Third on 13/02/2008 03:35:59
this is a exploit. concord is supposed to help against grieving ganks not enable this kind of crap. Concord provides security. If people can just get around concord it defeats the idea of concord.
Any argument on why this is allowable.... is too long and too unbelievable to be used. It's not about details.
if a war target joins my gang.... I want out right away, I don't want to be griever bait whenever a war target joins my gang.... at least an e-mail from concord.... telling me whats up. even being kicked from the gang would be better than losing ships to this concord exploit.
Usually I'm against overprotective game mechanics but this one has me on the side of safety.
Corporation members get hours of notice if they become war targets... but if I'm in a gang with war targets...What do I get before the little voice says i'm warp scrammed?
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2008.02.13 03:41:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Ashlspiess
Originally by: CrayC
Edited by: CrayC on 12/02/2008 12:58:09
Originally by: Fantasia Freelance
There is a serious flaw in the design when the recurring recommendation is "don't trust anyone".
Actually, that part is intentional in EVE...
Yea, of course it's intentional, because like any company that makes MMORPGs, anything that can contribute to player loss and or non-progressive playtime is more money for them.
Another greedy company that doesn't care for the little guy
eh? Eve was designed like that from the get go, years ago, long before they made the 'bigtime'. Eve's designed to be a griefing friendly place... it's not a carebear haven. Seriously.
I'm a carebear, and I shoot first and ask questions only after I've got the pod scrambled. Even then, I'm watching 'local' to make sure his buddies aren't around to gank me.
You got suckered. Always be leader of the gang, always assume someone is out to gank you unless you are POSITIVE they are not, and be ready to fight/run every time you undock.
I don't think you 'get' Eve. Sorry.
Originally by: Mangala Solaris
EVE really doesnt have set goals, its a freeform sandbox - yes a sandbox with kids that occasionally take a dump in it, but a sandbox never the less.
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Vested Interest
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Posted - 2008.02.13 04:52:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Sekhmet Orion
Originally by: Vested Interest
Why does CCP allow 2 parties who are at war with each other to join a fleet together in the first place? Nobody sees a slight inconsistency there?
So if 2 R/L friends that happen to be in corps at war withj each other want to gang up and run a mission, you are saying they shouldn't be able to gang up?
EVE imposes few restrictions, there is no night elf to hold your hand in this game.
Actions, and consequences. That is all
That's exactly what I'm saying. It's completely nonsensical for 2 entities, who claim to be at war, to fleet up temporarily to run a nice happy hand-holding mission together.
What kind of CEO would put up with corp members who do that? Oh I forgot, actually a lot of them. This is why it shouldn't even be an option to gang with someone you're at war with, without leaving your corp first.
Don't feed me BS about night-elves and hand-holding and consequences for actions. You're talking about 2 parties at war with each other being allowed to set aside hostilities and carebear it up together without consequences whatsoever.
It's another example of CCP not finishing something and then saying "oh this is by design b'cuz it's a harsh world amirite?" 
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Dionisius
Gallente
Critical Analysis
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.02.13 05:34:00 -
[79]
Lessons learned from this incident,
a) Don't trust anyone.
b) No one is to be trusted
c) Do not trust other players
Just don't be a nice guy with strangers.
_____________________________________
I pay beer for new sig.
- Sorry for the trouble Mits. |
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